318 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I don't understand, do the writers have the whole storyline planned already? I don't know how they do these things but it just seems weird to me that a writer, who had a hand in writing both storylines and characters, would go while the series is ongoing.

 

If they don't have the whole series planned already (I hope that isn't the case because I hate it when writers just improvise or wing it), then it just feels off that the lead writer at the start won't have any say in what happens in the future games.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping for great storylines for the future games, not just great characters.

 

Concering this transgender issue everybody's been raging about, I don't really care as long as they're great characters. Although it just feels off to me how..... convenient it is that a Dragon Age protagonist always meets or collaborates with someone that's not straight.

 

Games are writting like TV shows. Losing a writer - even a key or lead writer - is a hit that a production can absorb if they have other talented writers (and sometimes shows improve in quality). 

[Youknow]

Games are writting like TV shows. Losing a writer - even a key or lead writer - is a hit that a production can absorb if they have other talented writers (and sometimes shows improve in quality). 

True. But sometimes even if they can salvage it or improve it, sometimes the direction isn't quite the same (quality of writing being ignored for a second there). It sometimes leaves that thought in the back of your mind "how would it have been if it stayed with the original writer?"

[AlanC9]

True. But sometimes even if they can salvage it or improve it, sometimes the direction isn't quite the same (quality of writing being ignored for a second there). It sometimes leaves that thought in the back of your mind "how would it have been if it stayed with the original writer?"

So, sometimes change improves things and sometimes it doesn't?

[In Exile]

True. But sometimes even if they can salvage it or improve it, sometimes the direction isn't quite the same (quality of writing being ignored for a second there). It sometimes leaves that thought in the back of your mind "how would it have been if it stayed with the original writer?"

 

For me it depends on the quality of the show beforehand. If I think its good, and I continue to think it's good, then I don't care. And honestly I like it when properties change direction. Sometimes they suffer for it (e.g. TV's House MD) but I always respect them making the choice. 

[Joseph Warrick]

Probably a healthy choice to move on. Gaider had a hate-hate relationship with the fans. He tweeted that he would visit the BSN for a minute and immediately fall into jaded cynicism. But it wasn't only the BSN, tumblr hated him too (though to be honest they find everything short of utter adoration triggering in tumblr, and saying something triggering means open season for them to tell you to drink bleach and lay down in traffic).

Hopefully the game won't get cancelled like shadow realms and will get its own forum like swtor.

[Aren]

Games are writting like TV shows. Losing a writer - even a key or lead writer - is a hit that a production can absorb if they have other talented writers (and sometimes shows improve in quality). 

Games are not writing like TV shows,i'm sure that most of the writers ideas need to be chopped in game for one reason or the other

(this happen in Tv show too but not at this level),to the point that the final product can  be easily  vastly different from their original vision.

DA is  all about characters without a solid storyline,is like if we have the fishes but not the aquarium.

[andy6915]

So I got suspended for a day thanks to this topic for "innapropriate language", with the offending post having "ass" as the worst word I said. Not kidding. Ass. The most tame word on here. They literally made up a reason for it, citing me for a rule break I didn't even do. See what happens? Go against the grain and say something remotely anti-feminist (directed toward a very famous and high profile individual one in this case), and mods start making up reasons just to shut you up with false moderations. Unbelievable. I knew this board was bad when it came to moderators, but... God, that's bad. Can anyone guess which mod it is? You probably can, it's always the same one who does this crap. I guess it doesn't help that I told them off earlier in this topic too, so now they have a personal bone to pick with me.

 

Call this conspiracy theorist if you want, but I got in trouble for breaking a rule I didn't actually break. Period. The cited reason for the moderation was an all-out lie, and doesn't align with the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if they mark this too because I had the gal to dare to mention this right after my suspension. Mods hate getting called out.

[Dieb]

I got suspended for using an equally "moderate" swear word, in a completely different topic, making a sarcastic point impersonating a fictional person. The second time for quoting someone. Those two warning points are the bane of my online existence.

 

It's still awful, but rather than having an anti-anti-feminist agenda, it's really just laziness and probably some kind of automatic filter that they may or may not skim through when bored. The moderation has become absolutely impersonal and, even sadlier, random, but at least it's not loaded with any kind of political censorship.

[andy6915]

It's still awful, but rather than having an anti-anti-feminist agenda, it's really just laziness and probably some kind of automatic filter that they may or may not skim through when bored. The moderation has become absolutely impersonal and, even sadlier, random, but at least it's not loaded with any kind of political censorship.

 

I'm not so sure. Over half my moderations have come from the same moderator, I checked my warnings just now. It could just be over-vigilance, but now... I wonder. It really does seem to be preferential treatment. There's someone else on here who's been noticing the same problem of mods seemingly targeting certain people over others, so I'm not the only one thinking this.

 

Oh, and half of those moderations were posts where SJW or feminist discussions happened and I took the stance of being against both. Half of my warning points just happen to be the times where I disagreed with feminist viewpoints on this board? You got to admit, that's eyebrow raising.

[Toasted Llama]

Pardon me, just digging up a few comments I missed;

 

So the #shootafeminist hashtag is what satire? Sorry but that is BS as well.

 

SJWs champion equality. My crack about bigots being heartless bastards is MY honest opinion about them because that is what they are, and I quite honestly I'm sick and tied of them ruining the world. If people here can't handle the truth that there heartless bastards here then or that might be one themselves then need to either re-examine their worldview. and if they can't or won't do that then that is their problem and not mine.  

 

Because frankly I'm sick of this "tolerate the intolerate" crap.   

 

Where did I say in any way that #shootafeminist is good? Why all of this stupid "you're either with us or against us!" stuff?

 

Just because I don't like the extremists/bad apples from ONE side, doesn't mean I automatically support or even associate myself with the other side.

 

I'll be here, in the middle, trying to stop unnecessary hate/violence where I can. Without a label or a group of people. Shocking, I know.

 

Either way I wasn't in anyway saying that bigots aren't heartless bastards, just that I've seen SJWs/Feminists act like a heartless bastard. (or they seemed like heartless bastards to me)

 

 

Yes, I saw the issue with the shirt and the scientist. Nowhere did I see anyone calling for him to be harmed; his shirt was criticized and rightly so. He made a poor choice to wear that shirt in a time when many women scientists are coming out and complaining about sexual harassment within their jobs. I'll just have to disagree that calling him out for that choice is bullying.

 

Yup, let's just disagree in that regard. I suppose it also depends on what someone sees as sexist. I've personally always been interested and good at often times male dominated industries (both STEM fields and game development, the latter I'm currently studying) and something like a shirt has never really threw me off. Though things like that nobel prize winning scientist claiming that women should not be in the same laboratory as men because they're "distracting" or only "cry" does ****** me off to no end. Maybe because it's more obvious?

 

 

No one is advocating the character be allowed to be a phobic or a racist. Just to respond to philosophical issues in a disagreeing and even polite way.

 

But people are advocating to be <..>phobic and racist. Specifically IRL <..>phobism/racism despite the fact that it might not even fit with Thedas.

 

 

Well good for you but i don't want your views or somone else forced on me while im playing in the game particularly rpg.Well no one forces them to play that way it is optional ,not your concern or anyone else what kind off character i end up playing.

 

So what ,it is just stupid it is like saying that it is fine with being forced to like character A because you can dislike character B ,If topic comes up i want to my character have various opinions on that topic not to be forced to certain views because writer want to push their views on me.

 

So? Gta isn't Rpg in first place.

 

Do you also want the ability to tell blonde people that they are dumb?

 

Or gingers that they have no soul?

 

Or that brown-eyed people are bland and boring?

 

Or people whose ring finger is smaller than their index finger that they're inferior?

 

Basically this:

 

But why is Krem being singled out specifically to tell to **** off? Why isn't anyone arguing to be able to abuse Sutherland or Harding? Rhetorical questions, as I know the answers. People don't like him because he's transgender and some players would like to abuse him for that. Transgender people get abused enough in real life. I'm happy I don't have to even look at the disgusting option in game.

 

ETA: I know some will argue that the option to abuse Krem won't affect me or anyone else. Sure, it won't affect my game other than I'll have to see that option. But, it normalizes that reaction for people and I don't want to see the self-congratulatory threads here where the bigots go to gloat over how they hurt Krem.

 

Couldn't word it better than that, tbh. People aren't advocating to be assholes/dicks/be mean towards everyone because "roleplaying", they're advocating to be mean/dicks/assholes to people they already don't like IRL.

 

People don't like Krem, because he's transgender, people got angry and stomp their feet, claiming that it's hindering "player agency/choice/character development", but nobody is stomping their feet and getting angry because they can't tell harding her red hair is stupid and that she has no soul/her freckles are inferior.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

 

Do you also want the ability to tell blonde people that they are dumb?

 

Or gingers that they have no soul?

 

Or that brown-eyed people are bland and boring?

 

Or people whose ring finger is smaller than their index finger that they're inferior?

 

If topic is brought up yes i want to have ability express various opinions on that topic ,avoiding that your examples are deliberately immature to prove your point.

 

Not to mention you are comparing minor appearance characteristics to pretty much major things including things that are part of life style.

 

 

Couldn't word it better than that, tbh. People aren't advocating to be assholes/dicks/be mean towards everyone because "roleplaying", they're advocating to be mean/dicks/assholes to people they already don't like IRL.

 

People don't like Krem, because he's transgender, people got angry and stomp their feet, claiming that it's hindering "player agency/choice/character development", but nobody is stomping their feet and getting angry because they can't tell harding her red hair is stupid and that she has no soul/her freckles are inferior.

Pff that is ridiculous statement that shows in first you have no idea what you are talking about and you are mixing what people do in video games and what they do and think in real life.

 

I don't dislike Krem nor i do like Krem i don't care about Krem but i do want to option to dislike character regardless who it is and i was talking about it on this forum long before this debate even started.What you are talking about is stereotype in our world (again rather immature one) and i don't know if this stereotype exists in thedas but if topic of red heads comes up yes i would like to express dislike toward read heads.     

[Dai Grepher]

But people are advocating to be <..>phobic and racist. Specifically IRL <..>phobism/racism despite the fact that it might not even fit with Thedas.

 

Couldn't word it better than that, tbh. People aren't advocating to be assholes/dicks/be mean towards everyone because "roleplaying", they're advocating to be mean/dicks/assholes to people they already don't like IRL.

 

People don't like Krem, because he's transgender, people got angry and stomp their feet, claiming that it's hindering "player agency/choice/character development", but nobody is stomping their feet and getting angry because they can't tell harding her red hair is stupid and that she has no soul/her freckles are inferior.

 

See but that's the thing, being a jerk (to put it politely) to transgender people isn't the same thing as being transphobic. No more than being a jerk to heterosexuals is heterophobic. And people are saying that it should fit with Thedas. Read my previous post here, I explain it quite well.

 

No, people ARE advocating to be jerks to everyone in the game. They specifically call this their evil playthrough, or "jerk" playthrough. And saying they don't like those people in real life is nothing but your baseless prejudgment of them.

 

Who are "people"? Two or more persons? Well I'm sure there are at least two people out there who don't like Krem based solely on the transgender issue, but this is hardly indicative of the great majority of those who dislike Krem. I have never seen anyone use transgenderism as the reason they hate Krem. But maybe this is just because I have yet to find a transphobe decoder ring in a box of Crack*er Jacks.

 

(And of course the word crack er is censored.)

[In Exile]

Games are not writing like TV shows,i'm sure that most of the writers ideas need to be chopped in game for one reason or the other

(this happen in Tv show too but not at this level),to the point that the final product can  be easily  vastly different from their original vision.

DA is  all about characters without a solid storyline,is like if we have the fishes but not the aquarium.

 

You can go with movie screenwriting then, and compare a first script with a last one, after multiple re-writers by different writers. TV is the better analogy though IMO because of the # of writers involved, with different episodes being representative of the different parts of the game. 

 

Lots of TV shows say they focus on characters while pumping out an incomprehensible plot that seems to change between seasons (e.g. Lost, BSG). 

[In Exile]

See but that's the thing, being a jerk (to put it politely) to transgender people isn't the same thing as being transphobic. No more than being a jerk to heterosexuals is heterophobic. And people are saying that it should fit with Thedas. Read my previous post here, I explain it quite well.

 

Well, no. You're just wrong. Because you're not actually asking to be a "jerk" in a general sense, e.g. to call Krem a lazy piece of ****. You want options targeted specifically at Krem being transgendered - in the past you've talked e.g. about using the incorrect pronoun ("she"). That's exactly like using racial or homophobic slurs (even if you take the view that a slur is a more insulting term, the way you want to be insulting is to target the quality vs. just to be rude). 

 

If you were talking about being a jerk, in general, you'd just talk about the lack of an ability to yell obscenities at random characters, which has no connection with any one particular trait. 

Edit:

 

In fact, let me quote you:

 

No, because that's never part of the storyline. Krem's transgender issue is. If Vivienne had given us a story about how the Orlesian nobility gave her a hard time because of her skin color, then I would want the same variety of dialogue options for that too. But it has been made quite clear since Dragon Age Origins that skin color prejudice does not exist in Thedas. So of course this situation would never come up. Gender issues DO exist in Thedas however, and so I would expect player choice in defining my characters' options on these issues.

 

This is in response to the post:

 

Do you also disapprove of the fact that we're not allowed to say that we don't want Vivienne on the party because she's black ?Or that we're not allowed to fire Josephine for being female?

 

Or do you think giving people options to be racist towards Vivienne would have been bad? If so, why does that not limit player choice while not allowing people to make fun of transgender people does?

 

You're very clearly talking about racism, sexism and - in this particular case - transphobia. Your last post reveals it. The question was "Should you get to say racist ****?" And your respons was "If race - not racism - came up in the story, I should get to be a racist". 

[Dieb]

I dream of some day in the future, where nobody would have to be ashamed to proudly be a racist anymore.

 

I'm not so sure. Over half my moderations have come from the same moderator, I checked my warnings just now. It could just be over-vigilance, but now... I wonder. It really does seem to be preferential treatment. There's someone else on here who's been noticing the same problem of mods seemingly targeting certain people over others, so I'm not the only one thinking this.

 

Oh, and half of those moderations were posts where SJW or feminist discussions happened and I took the stance of being against both. Half of my warning points just happen to be the times where I disagreed with feminist viewpoints on this board? You got to admit, that's eyebrow raising.

 

Ironically, these warning points give you an air of danger to the ladiez.

 

If you know what I mean.

[maia0407]

Yup, let's just disagree in that regard. I suppose it also depends on what someone sees as sexist. I've personally always been interested and good at often times male dominated industries (both STEM fields and game development, the latter I'm currently studying) and something like a shirt has never really threw me off. Though things like that nobel prize winning scientist claiming that women should not be in the same laboratory as men because they're "distracting" or only "cry" does ****** me off to no end. Maybe because it's more obvious?
 

Oh my, yes nose hair scientist was way out of line. Honestly, who goes to a women's science conference and calls them crybabies?

 

Andy, just curious, how many points do you have? I dunno, the idea that you can discuss 'half' your points (like it's normal to have so many that you can half them) is sort of funny. Just to poke a hole in the argument that mods hate anti-feminists, I was issued a warning point once for making fun of a poster that was making sexist remarks about women. I didn't curse, name call or anything like that but I did attack the person and not the argument.

 

That's where you are getting into trouble. You can imply that you think I'm an amoral lunatic heathen by stating that my arguments are amoral, etc. But, you can't directly tell me that I'm an amoral lunatic heathen which is what you did in one of your posts (not those exact words but just as funny). I probably shouldn't be giving debate advice to my 'adversary' but you just seem so befuddled about your suspension that my cold cold evil heart melts a little!

[Dai Grepher]

Well, no. You're just wrong. Because you're not actually asking to be a "jerk" in a general sense, e.g. to call Krem a lazy piece of ****. You want options targeted specifically at Krem being transgendered - in the past you've talked e.g. about using the incorrect pronoun ("she"). That's exactly like using racial or homophobic slurs (even if you take the view that a slur is a more insulting term, the way you want to be insulting is to target the quality vs. just to be rude). 

 

If you were talking about being a jerk, in general, you'd just talk about the lack of an ability to yell obscenities at random characters, which has no connection with any one particular trait. 

Edit:

 

In fact, let me quote you:

 

No, because that's never part of the storyline. Krem's transgender issue is. If Vivienne had given us a story about how the Orlesian nobility gave her a hard time because of her skin color, then I would want the same variety of dialogue options for that too. But it has been made quite clear since Dragon Age Origins that skin color prejudice does not exist in Thedas. So of course this situation would never come up. Gender issues DO exist in Thedas however, and so I would expect player choice in defining my characters' options on these issues.

 

This is in response to the post:

 

Do you also disapprove of the fact that we're not allowed to say that we don't want Vivienne on the party because she's black ?Or that we're not allowed to fire Josephine for being female?

 

Or do you think giving people options to be racist towards Vivienne would have been bad? If so, why does that not limit player choice while not allowing people to make fun of transgender people does?

 

You're very clearly talking about racism, sexism and - in this particular case - transphobia. Your last post reveals it. The question was "Should you get to say racist ****?" And your respons was "If race - not racism - came up in the story, I should get to be a racist". 

 

I believe you are confused. I was responding to someone else's post about what others here are writing and asking for regarding a jerk playthrough. That is a separate issue from what I am requesting with the next Dragon Age game, not Krem. Krem is over an done with. As for the issue of future transgender characters, Weekes confirmed that we will already have options targeted at these transgender characters. I am merely requesting a dialogue option to express disagreement with the concept of transgenderism, which has already been expressed in Inquisition in a few examples. As for the pronouns, that's your opinion that using a certain pronoun is transphobia. It's not. Is it rude to the transgender person? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But at worst, this would fall into the category of being a jerk. It is nothing like being a racist. A racial slur is a made up term used to mock or disparage. Calling someone who is biologically female "her" is nothing but an acknowledgement of physical reality. So unless reality itself is transphobic, then neither is a custom character who recognizes it.

 

To put it another way, if my Inquisitor is all about being honest and standing for the truth in all things (which my Inquisitor was BTW), then shouldn't he have the right to recognize factual reality? Should he be forced to agree with and promote something that is not true? That's like if Blackwall, after being found out, told the Inquisitor to keep referring to him as a Grey Warden. My Inquisitor would have scoffed and said, "No. Because you're not a Grey Warden." My Inquisitor didn't even let Blackwall wear his makeshift Warden armor after that point. He put him in Orlesian armor. And before you ask, yes I was annoyed that we couldn't refer to him as Thom Rainier after that point. But whatever, people can and do change their names.

 

So no, it isn't to be rude. It's to be honest. For some it might be about rudeness. And so what if it is? If that's the kind of character they want, then let them have it. Don't like it? Don't be rude.

 

Thanks for quoting me. I was going to ask you to do that (since you are incorrect). And now I ask that you actually read what I wrote. For example, the first word in that paragraph, which is "No". I wrote that I would want the same variety of options for that too. That doesn't necessarily mean racism. And like I wrote, an option allowing for skin color prejudice would go against the lore. So I would be against that, unless they showed a new culture that did hold those views (like the xenophobic one). But as it stands, skin color prejudice does not exist in Thedas.

 

Yeah well, that isn't what I wrote, as my quoted post proves. I was wondering why you didn't reply to it before. Now I know it's because you couldn't refute it.

[Outcast]

How do i post a new thread... it seems to be a secret here  

[maia0407]

How do i post a new thread... it seems to be a secret here  

Near the top of the forum on the right side is a button that says 'start new topic'. If you don't see it, I'd guess that you might need more posts before you can start a topic. Maybe?

[Matriarch]

I am absolutely, 100%, truly, (etc, etc) pro choices in-game. If the choices are lore-friendly, of course. If I'm going to roleplay with different characters, I want them to have different personalities, not to only be able to choose between 2-3 answers that say basically the same thing but in a different way.

 

This applies to NPCS too. If there are SJW, then I'm a Personality Justice Warrior! (PJW)

[Toasted Llama]

If topic is brought up yes i want to have ability express various opinions on that topic ,avoiding that your examples are deliberately immature to prove your point.

 

Not to mention you are comparing minor appearance characteristics to pretty much major things including things that are part of life style.

 

 

Pff that is ridiculous statement that shows in first you have no idea what you are talking about and you are mixing what people do in video games and what they do and think in real life.

 

I don't dislike Krem nor i do like Krem i don't care about Krem but i do want to option to dislike character regardless who it is and i was talking about it on this forum long before this debate even started.What you are talking about is stereotype in our world (again rather immature one) and i don't know if this stereotype exists in thedas but if topic of red heads comes up yes i would like to express dislike toward read heads.     

 

"Not knowing what I'm talking about"

 

I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to have a doctorate in "roleplaying".

 

Also, the stereotype of red heads having no soul is about as immature as the stereotype that transgender individuals don't exist.

 

See but that's the thing, being a jerk (to put it politely) to transgender people isn't the same thing as being transphobic. No more than being a jerk to heterosexuals is heterophobic. And people are saying that it should fit with Thedas. Read my previous post here, I explain it quite well.

 

No, people ARE advocating to be jerks to everyone in the game. They specifically call this their evil playthrough, or "jerk" playthrough. And saying they don't like those people in real life is nothing but your baseless prejudgment of them.

 

Who are "people"? Two or more persons? Well I'm sure there are at least two people out there who don't like Krem based solely on the transgender issue, but this is hardly indicative of the great majority of those who dislike Krem. I have never seen anyone use transgenderism as the reason they hate Krem. But maybe this is just because I have yet to find a transphobe decoder ring in a box of Crack*er Jacks.

 

(And of course the word crack er is censored.)

 

You already can be a giant jerk in the game. I have an evil overlord playthrough myself and while I do feel it's been toned down somewhat, I also feel it wouldn't fit for a huge, well known organization to have a total douche at the throne. Either way there's plenty of other ways to be a total dick. Including discrimination.

 

And I'm using "people" because I don't know exact numbers and because I don't know if it's the majority or minority. But there's quite a lot of them out there. Should be obvious.

[maia0407]

 

And I'm using "people" because I don't know exact numbers and because I don't know if it's the majority or minority. But there's quite a lot of them out there. Should be obvious.

ha, ha, ha! Yeah, I hope that nobody is actually trying to argue that transphobic people don't exist in the gaming community. That idea is up there with pigs flying and the like.

 

Seriously though, you can only get so far with arguing with people that have already admitted that they would like to roleplay a rapist. After those admissions, I washed my hands of those two. Not touching those types of people.

[Dai Grepher]

And I'm using "people" because I don't know exact numbers and because I don't know if it's the majority or minority. But there's quite a lot of them out there. Should be obvious.

 

It's not obvious. In fact, I have yet to see a single person write that they hated Krem based solely or in part on Krem's transgenderism. But you admit to not knowing the number. So you also can't know if there's quite a lot of them out there.
 

[Dai Grepher]

Seriously though, you can only get so far with arguing with people that have already admitted that they would like to roleplay a rapist. After those admissions, I washed my hands of those two. Not touching those types of people.

 

Are you referring to Weekes and Gaider? Because they said they almost had a rape storyline in Inquisition.
 

And I never wrote I wanted to play as a rapist character. I wrote that the variety of options should be there IF Weekes implemented a rape storyline. Personally, I would choose the moral path.

[Dieb]

Are you referring to Weekes and Gaider? Because they said they almost had a rape storyline in Inquisition.

 

People wanted to rape NPCs. Themselves. For roleplaying's sake.

 

Thank god for GoT and everybody's sudden "sexual maturity", eh?