318 réponses à ce sujet

[The Oracle]

I would like to point out that being attacked by people and fighting to defend yourself is not the same as actively choosing to rape someone. In the game, we are soldiers trying to quell a war. Like it or not, war involves killing the enemy side 99.9% of the time. i doubt veterans of WW2, Iraq, Vietnam etc would appreciate being vilified as murderers due to serving their country as soldiers. Your Inquisitor is no different. They are not killing for fun or pleasure. they are doing it to restore order and protect innocents. Rape is the very opposite. The two are not comparable.

[maia0407]

But apparently it's okay because you *should* be allowed that option. It's just a game right? *sarcasm*

Ironically, a poster who supports that argument stated that it shouldn't be okay for Krem to punch the Inquisitor in response to nasty comments, because it would be a bad representation of transgenders.. *rolls eyes*

All I'm seeing here in this thread is the representation of worthless scum.

Yep. Some of these people hold up their 'freedom' to choose while 'roleplaying' as some sort of inviolable right that trumps all other requests for restraint. We should all descend to the gutter so they can have the choice to rape people and abuse minorities. And, when the minorities fight back, it's suddenly bad form. Whatever.

[Joseph Warrick]

In Mark of the Assassin people at least challenged Tallis on her Qunari nonsense. Not only Hawke but also Aveline, Fenris, and Isabela. In Inquisition you hear the Bull saying oh yes if you fight you're a man, that's why the qunari have no problem with you buddy. And you can only just go along with it. Oh that's very interesting, tell me more. You can't tell the Bull they're a bunch of lunatics who brainwash tomboys and butches into thinking they're men because they like being warriors.

 

It goes like this: Bull has no problem with Krem = Bull is progressive = Bull cannot be challenged because that would mean *you* have a problem with Krem = you are not progressive. (hint: the mistake is the first implication. Bull has no problem with Krem for the wrong reasons.)

 

To hear Krem say "maybe the qunari are not so bad after all" as the game has you standing there smiling along with everybody. Not only that but to have everyone in real life expecting support for the Bull's words as the only acceptable opinion.

[TheKomandorShepard]

How far down the depraved scale are you willing to go for the benefit of your roleplaying experience? Is pedophilia okay? Bestiality? Do you have any concept of limits at all or is it all fair game because we can kill bad guys in video game? Do you run around telling soldiers that they are the moral equivalent of rapists because they kill people as well?

You are only digging yourself further as it seems you can't distinguish reality from fiction and your claims are outright ridiculous is killing person for kicks okay? Does this matter? No, this is video game you aren't killing real person , does that mean if killed person in video game that i kill people in real life or support doing that?

 

It seems you are unable to recognize that doing/saying something in video game doesn't mean you support such action or you agree with what your character is saying in real life....

 

In first place what is "bad" guy bunch of pixels that game throws at you.In real life something like "bad guy" doesn't exist in first place and you can do much more than kill "bad guys" in video games.

 

And again why you bringing morality of real world into video game?

 

But apparently it's okay because you *should* be allowed that option. It's just a game right? *sarcasm*

Ironically, a poster who supports that argument stated that it shouldn't be okay for Krem to punch the Inquisitor in response to nasty comments, because it would be a bad representation of transgenders.. *rolls eyes*

All I'm seeing here in this thread is the representation of worthless scum.

Eee you are talking about me? Because im pretty sure i didn't said that.

 

And yes it is just game you can sold child soul for sex, commit genocide , try unleash demon in exchange for virgin and do a lot other not very nice things and yet i don't hear screams that it is immoral and shouldn't be in game...

 

 

I would like to point out that being attacked by people and fighting to defend yourself is not the same as actively choosing to rape someone. In the game, we are soldiers trying to quell a war. Like it or not, war involves killing the enemy side 99.9% of the time. i doubt veterans of WW2, Iraq, Vietnam etc would appreciate being vilified as murderers due to serving their country as soldiers. Your Inquisitor is no different. They are not killing for fun or pleasure. they are doing it to restore order and protect innocents. Rape is the very opposite. The two are not comparable.

Of course doesn't change fact we should whitewash fact they are still killing and not always in self-defense and who is innocent is merely of prespective you inquisitor can do pretty much few nasty things ,so the warden (he could do a lot of nasty things) and hawke as well.

[andy6915]

The only positive I can note is that these guys are outing themselves for what they are; makes it easier to avoid engaging them in the future since I know their mentality. But, at the very least, this thread could use a trigger warning.

 

(Now to quote the other part, making it its own post)

 

UGH! Trigger warning? That is my trigger! I bloody hate that term, hate the hell out of it. Every time someone says trigger warning in a non-sarcastic way, I get very irritated. It's one of the worst sodding terms ever come up with.

[maia0407]

In Mark of the Assassin people at least challenged Tallis on her Qunari nonsense. Not only Hawke but also Aveline, Fenris, and Isabela. In Inquisition you hear the Bull saying oh yes if you fight you're a man, that's why the qunari have no problem with you buddy. And you can only just go along with it. Oh that's very interesting, tell me more. You can't tell the Bull they're a bunch of lunatics who brainwash tomboys and butches into thinking they're men because they like being warriors.

 

It goes like this: Bull has no problem with Krem = Bull is progressive = Bull cannot be challenged because that would mean *you* have a problem with Krem = you are not progressive. (hint: the mistake is the first implication. Bull has no problem with Krem for the wrong reasons.)

 

To hear Krem say "maybe the qunari are not so bad after all" as the game has you standing there smiling along with everybody. Not only that but to have everyone in real life expecting support for the Bull's words as the only acceptable opinion.

And, yet, it's people like you, the ones that use slurs and misrpresentations to describe trans people, that are making the arguement that they want to 'disagree' with Krem. By using slurs and misrepresentation you actually out yourself as being one of those people that do have a problem with transgender people in real life. So, I can't get behind this idea that you just want to 'roleplay' a jerk. You seem to just want to make sure your phobic opinions are represented in the game. BW is under no obligation to oblige.

[Toasted Llama]

ha, ha, ha! Yeah, I hope that nobody is actually trying to argue that transphobic people don't exist in the gaming community. That idea is up there with pigs flying and the like.

 

Seriously though, you can only get so far with arguing with people that have already admitted that they would like to roleplay a rapist. After those admissions, I washed my hands of those two. Not touching those types of people.

 

Just when you were hoping that, someone argued that nobody on the BSN hates Krem for being transgender

 

 

It's not obvious. In fact, I have yet to see a single person write that they hated Krem based solely or in part on Krem's transgenderism. But you admit to not knowing the number. So you also can't know if there's quite a lot of them out there.
 

 

Good grief you're blind. You might want to get your eyes checked.

[andy6915]

And, yet, it's people like you, the ones that use slurs and misrpresentations to describe trans people, that are making the arguement that they want to 'disagree' with Krem. By using slurs and misrepresentation you actually out yourself as being one of those people that do have a problem with transgender people in real life. So, I can't get behind this idea that you just want to 'roleplay' a jerk. You seem to just want to make sure your phobic opinions are represented in the game. BW is under no obligation to oblige.

 

I do agree. Being able to express a bit of discomfort in-game like how your Warden could become uncomfortable (enough to break up) when Zevran mentioned he's been with men is one thing, being able to be a hardcore trans hating bigot in-game is another. It would be like getting mad that you can't call Vivienne a certain slur starting with "n".

[The Oracle]

And again why you bringing morality of real world into video game?

 

 

Eh, I'm pretty sure it's the morality of the Dragon Age Series too. I doubt if you were able to rape someone in game, even as the Inquisitor, that you'd get away with it. For one, Cole would most likely stab you or blab about it out loud, to which the other characters then, probably, have you chained up and dragged about to close rifts and then in prison at all other times.

 

And if it doesn't have an impact and no-one else find out, why is it even in there in the first place? If it provides no further plot or consequences in game, then it would basically be there just for being there, to fulfill some twisted need for people to do it in game. And why rape? There are other horrifying ways to be evil. Maybe there should a cutscene where you spend time flaying a dog alive for a few minutes. Or one torturing toddlers. Or any number of sick things. What's the point other than to gain some rather worrying self-gratification?

[Donk]

You are only digging yourself further as it seems you can't distinguish reality from fiction and your claims are outright ridiculous is killing person for kicks okay? Does this matter? No, this is video game you aren't killing real person , does that mean if killed person in video game that i kill people in real life or support doing that?

It seems you are unable to recognize that doing/saying something in video game doesn't mean you support such action or you agree with what your character is saying in real life....

In first place what is "bad" guy bunch of pixels that game throws at you.In real life something like "bad guy" doesn't exist in first place and you can do much more than kill "bad guys" in video games.

And again why you bringing morality of real world into video game?

Eee you are talking about me? Because im pretty sure i didn't said that.

And yes it is just game you can sold child soul for sex, commit genocide , try unleash demon in exchange for virgin and do a lot other not very nice things and yet i don't hear screams that it is immoral and shouldn't be in game...

No, I wasn't referring to you about the Krem issue.

I see your point, but I find having the option to rape kinda unnecessary, while the points you made often had context that related to the game. For instance on genocide: in DA2 I had Hawke massacre the whole Dalish camp. Funnily enough I only just found out a short while back that I could have avoided that, but based on dialogue responses they attacked me.

Probably a shitty argument to make. But a lot of the themes has changed from Origins through to Inquisition.

My concern is not so much about what you do in a fictional game but why you would want that option to begin with?

Many of my close friends and family have been raped and it sickens me that a majority of these rapists have got away with it. If I had my way they would all be castrated and stuffed in a hole somewhere to die a slow torturous death.

[Joseph Warrick]

And, yet, it's people like you, the ones that use slurs and misrpresentations to describe trans people, that are making the arguement that they want to 'disagree' with Krem. By using slurs and misrepresentation you actually out yourself as being one of those people that do have a problem with transgender people in real life. So, I can't get behind this idea that you just want to 'roleplay' a jerk. You seem to just want to make sure your phobic opinions are represented in the game. BW is under no obligation to oblige.

 

What slurs? Quote me.

 

What misrepresentation? Quote me.

 

I want to disagree with the Iron Bull. With the Qun. With the religion that convinces mages that having their own tongues chopped off and their mouths sewn shut is righteous.

 

Read again my post, slowly this time.

[maia0407]

Describing trans people as just tomboys (misrepresentation) and butch (slur).

[TheKomandorShepard]

Eh, I'm pretty sure it's the morality of the Dragon Age Series too. I doubt if you were able to rape someone in game, even as the Inquisitor, that you'd get away with it. For one, Cole would most likely stab you or blab about it out loud, to which the other characters then, probably, have you chained up and dragged about to close rifts and then in prison at all other times.

 

And if it doesn't have an impact and no-one else find out, why is it even in there in the first place? If it provides no further plot or consequences in game, then it would basically be there just for being there, to fulfill some twisted need for people to do it in game. And why rape? There are other horrifying ways to be evil. Maybe there should a cutscene where you spend a few hours flaying a dog alive for a few minutes. Or one torturing toddlers. Or any number of sick things. What's the point other than to gain some rather worrying self-gratification?

 

You missed completly what i meant... what i meant is that you shouldn't bring morality into thing you can do in video game as i said you can sell child soul for sex most of people pretty much would see that as immoral and yet it is in the game despite being immoral.

 

What you are talking about is character reaction on certain action done by pc. I don't disagree with characters reacting on what player does as long i will have proper response for such reaction for example Krem punching me as another person said.About cole he is optional companion and in fact he may disapprove your actions then he leaves

 

Sadly companions don't always react correctly for an example moment when you allow danarius take fenris downplays reaction of companions to pretty much one comment about it despite it would have bigger impact , or for an example i doubt cole or cassandra would react lightly to letting demon go.

 

On question why rape ,because somone brought it up and i said im perfectly fine with such option ain't very different than killing that merchant in lothering just for kicks no other point than roleplaying.

 

 

No, I wasn't referring to you about the Krem issue.

I see your point, but I find having the option to rape kinda unnecessary, while the points you made often had context that related to the game. For instance on genocide: in DA2 I had Hawke massacre the whole Dalish camp. Funnily enough I only just found out a short while back that I could have avoided that, but based on dialogue responses they attacked me.

Probably a shitty argument to make. But a lot of the themes has changed from Origins through to Inquisition.

My concern is not so much about what you do in a fictional game but why you would want that option to begin with?

Many of my close friends and family have been raped and it sickens me that a majority of these rapists have got away with it. If I had my way they would all be castrated and stuffed in a hole somewhere to die a slow torturous death.

Well many options are unnecessary yet give addition to creating unique character and more possibilities in game ,for an example giving coin kid in lothering is absolutely unnecessary and provides nothing more than ability to rp.Of course im aware that devs can't give us absolute freedom to do what we want as they are bounded to limitations ,but then returning to core of discussion i don't think implemeting dislike toward for an example homosexualism when homosexualism is brought up would be a problem ,not more than ability to express your opinion about qun or your faith in dai when those topic are brought up.

 

About dalish it wasn't what i meant i rather was talking about broken circle and that you can kill all mages basing your decision on that you hate mages or if you are mage that you hate circle so you kill every mage in it.

 

Well, for same reason why i would like option to belive in creators , maker or just don't belive in any gods because as i said more options more we can create with it , so as i said im all for more options.

 

 

   

.

[SharpWalkers]

Anyone wanna, like, bake cookies or something? 

[maia0407]

I make a mean chocolate chip cookie using just the basic recipe off the back of chocolate chip bags. Secret is to use a mix of high quality milk and dark chocolates and a high quality butter (since butter makes up a huge proportion of the recipe). Then, I let them bake until they are almost done and cool out of the oven so they are chewy. Soooo, good! But, can't make them often as I'll gobble them all down!

[maia0407]

lol! Poor thing! Be like my husband and find someone that is good at making cookies! You can eat the results with none of the hassle.

 

I remember my first batch of chocolate chip cookies that I made as a kid. They turned out like rock hard little balls. It wasn't until years later that I figured out that I'd added salt to self-rising flour instead of all-purpose flour. Little things like that will trip you up!

[The Oracle]

You missed completly what i meant... what i meant is that you shouldn't bring morality into thing you can do in video game as i said you can sell child soul for sex most of people pretty much would see that as immoral and yet it is in the game despite being immoral.

 

What you are talking about is character reaction on certain action done by pc. I don't disagree with characters reacting on what player does as long i will have proper response for such reaction for example Krem punching me as another person said.About cole he is optional companion and in fact he may disapprove your actions then he leaves

 

Sadly companions don't always react correctly for an example moment when you allow danarius take fenris downplays reaction of companions to pretty much one comment about it despite it would have bigger impact , or for an example i doubt cole or cassandra would react lightly to letting demon go.

 

On question why rape ,because somone brought it up and i said im perfectly fine with such option ain't very different than killing that merchant in lothering just for kicks no other point than roleplaying.

 

 

Well, for same reason why i would like option to belive in creators , maker or just don't belive in any gods because as i said more options more we can create with it , so as i said im all for more options.

 

You keep on bringing up the "sell a child's soul for sex" which, I'm assuming you're referring to the Dark Ritual, yes? Well, that's a very strange way to look at the choice. Morrigan doesn't come up and say to you "Hey, you wanna have sex with me? Well, fine, but as long as I have a baby so i can destroy it's soul. LOLZ." What is presented to you is that there is a way to save your own soul, but to do so a child must be conceived to carry the soul of the Old God. She tells you the child will not be hurt, the Grey Warden's will be saved and the Old God will be restored, untainted. It's presented to you as a way to save your own life (or Alistair's/Loghain), saves the Old God's soul and does not harm the child whatsoever. Whether that is true though, is the reason why it's so greatly debated. As are the implications of what Morrigan would do with the child. However, it's not simply a way to get sex. In fact, if your a female Warden, you get no sex whatsoever (worse, you may have to beg your boyfriend to sleep with her).

 

That Origin's has far darker "evil player" choices is undoubted, such as the man in Lothering, but even then you are killing someone who is actively profiteering at the costs of people's lives in a blight and death torn village. How the hell would a rape scenario go? Find prisoner of the Red Templar's being used as slave labor to mine. Choose option 1 "Free them" or option 2 "Rape them"? Seriously? How do you envision this going. I'm assuming that you would be wanting this scenario for male npc's to be raped as well, yes? And children, cause you know, where exactly do you stop with this? Or is it only okay if it's women?

 

Dragon Age has enjoyed dabbling in grey areas, such as mercy killing and vigilantism. Rape, however, is not a grey area.

 

Also you can announce your belief in the maker, dalish gods etc. Cassandra and a few others ask you about it, and you can confirm it to them.

[Ieldra]

Weekes stated that he would add more transgender content to the next game, and that options to disagree with it would not be implemented for player choice purposes. He also stated that if players don't like that, then they should not play Dragon Age anymore.

 

I disapprove of efforts to restrict player choice.

I don't think this specifically will have that much impact, and I consider the ability to "disagree" with another's sexual orientation as completely unimportant for a character's integrity. However, I'm worried about that attitude. I dislike it if real-world political agendas are given too much presence in the stories I play. "Author appeal" is disliked for a reason. Most likely we'll get another attempt to sanitize the fictional world because of real-world political agendas. That will make the world feel stale. 

[andy6915]

You keep on bringing up the "sell a child's soul for sex" which, I'm assuming you're referring to the Dark Ritual, yes? Well, that's a very strange way to look at the choice. Morrigan doesn't come up and say to you "Hey, you wanna have sex with me? Well, fine, but as long as I have a baby so i can destroy it's soul. LOLZ." What is presented to you is that there is a way to save your own soul, but to do so a child must be conceived to carry the soul of the Old God. She tells you the child will not be hurt, the Grey Warden's will be saved and the Old God will be restored, untainted. It's presented to you as a way to save your own life (or Alistair's/Loghain), saves the Old God's soul and does not harm the child whatsoever. Whether that is true though, is the reason why it's so greatly debated. As are the implications of what Morrigan would do with the child. However, it's not simply a way to get sex. In fact, if your a female Warden, you get no sex whatsoever (worse, you may have to beg your boyfriend to sleep with her).

 

Uh... No, that's not the part they mean. I'm not the one you quoted, but I can tell them for you that you got the wrong part. No, he means Connor. You can make a deal with the Desire Demon to let it eventually repossess him in exchange for it giving you something (it's the same part where you can unlock the blood magic specialization). One of the things you can ask for is sex with the Desire Demon (off screen of course).

[TheKomandorShepard]

You keep on bringing up the "sell a child's soul for sex" which, I'm assuming you're referring to the Dark Ritual, yes? Well, that's a very strange way to look at the choice. Morrigan doesn't come up and say to you "Hey, you wanna have sex with me? Well, fine, but as long as I have a baby so i can destroy it's soul. LOLZ." What is presented to you is that there is a way to save your own soul, but to do so a child must be conceived to carry the soul of the Old God. She tells you the child will not be hurt, the Grey Warden's will be saved and the Old God will be restored, untainted. It's presented to you as a way to save your own life (or Alistair's/Loghain), saves the Old God's soul and does not harm the child whatsoever. Whether that is true though, is the reason why it's so greatly debated. As are the implications of what Morrigan would do with the child. However, it's not simply a way to get sex. In fact, if your a female Warden, you get no sex whatsoever (worse, you may have to beg your boyfriend to sleep with her).

 

That Origin's has far darker "evil player" choices is undoubted, such as the man in Lothering, but even then you are killing someone who is actively profiteering at the costs of people's lives in a blight and death torn village. How the hell would a rape scenario go? Find prisoner of the Red Templar's being used as slave labor to mine. Choose option 1 "Free them" or option 2 "Rape them"? Seriously? How do you envision this going. I'm assuming that you would be wanting this scenario for male npc's to be raped as well, yes? And children, cause you know, where exactly do you stop with this? Or is it only okay if it's women?

 

Dragon Age has enjoyed dabbling in grey areas, such as mercy killing and vigilantism. Rape, however, is not a grey area.

 

Also you can announce your belief in the maker, dalish gods etc. Cassandra and a few others ask you about it, and you can confirm it to them.

No i was refaring to connor and that you can exchange him for sex with desire demon.

 

There are many scenarios bioware would implement rape of course optional be it forcing yourself for on an example li , chevalier style on local pesant or just on your prisoner of course it would be more than just expressing your opinion when topic is brought up as it would extra plot content.As for the rest i would leave it to the writers.

 

Debatable as often (to lesser extent in sequels) you had option doing crappy things for self-serving reasons be it profit or even enjoyment beyond examples i gave another example is cammen and gheyna and i can give much more examples.

 

I know i just pointed them reasons when he asked why i would want rape as option on what i responed it just more options to develop character.     

[The Oracle]

Uh... No. I'm not the one you quoted, but I can tell them for you that you got the wrong part. No, he means Connor. You can make a deal with the Desire Demon to let it eventually repossess him in exchange for it giving you something (it's the same part where you can unlock the blood magic specialization). One of the things you can ask for is sex with the Desire Demon (off screen of course).

 

Really? That is interesting. I'll need to go off and youtube it cause I've never seen this. Of course, if that's what the OP was referring to, then I'll take back what I said and admit that I completely misunderstood. 

[andy6915]

No i was refaring to connor and that you can exchange him for sex with desire demon.

 

Knew it.

[maia0407]

Really? That is interesting. I'll need to go off and youtube it cause I've never seen this. Of course, if that's what the OP was referring to, then I'll take back what I said and admit that I completely misunderstood. 

Yeah, but your point still stands. Fantasy evil (demon possession) isn't equivalent to things that can happen in real life (rape). He's trying to make them morally equivalent and failing.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yeah, but your point still stands. Fantasy evil (demon possession) isn't equivalent to things that can happen in real life (rape). He's trying to make them morally equivalent and failing.

No you are just failing to understand diffrence between doing something in real life and in the game.As i said you want real equivalent you still have genocide or killing another people (and no im not talking about your "bad guys" in self-defence). I have already proved that you can do things that people consider immoral in video games so now you are desperately avoding to confront what i have told you pretty much focusing on 1 thing.