318 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

No, Andy. Make your arguments if you have any. You don't get to demand that I spend time reviewing yet something else you've linked me to when your first shot proved to be speculation and weird suppositions. You kind of ruined your credibility on that first link and then, you link to what appears to be more of the same. If you have an actual argument, make it. Right now, I'm engaging your arguments, not some video.

That video is from someone more knowledgeable than me, eloquent than me, researched than me, with lots of citations, made over the course of weeks. That video will give you every argument and fact I could make in 1 tenth the time it would take me to type a large post. So you're either scared to watch it, or your ludicrously petty. Period. You only want me to make the argument because you know I'll be a lot less researched and good at making points than the vid, you know I'll be "easier". That's the point, isn't it, to avoid having your little hero knocked down no matter what? You could just watch and learn something, but that is too hard for you. Far easier to make a million posts about why you don't want to.

[Donk]

[Panda]

No. No you didn't address my point at all. And posting a paragraph of irrelevant text doesn't mean you addressed the point. Again, I didn't bring up transgenderism when making the Qun analogy, which again makes your reply a deflection (which you admit). In fact, that was the whole point of making an analogy in the first place, because you couldn't understand the point I was making about having a opposing dialogue response on the issue of transgenderism. With the Qun analogy I referred to "whatever", which can be anything and everything. Like how they treat people who want to change their field of business, or those who believe in different ideas, or those who want to choose their mate, or those who don't want to live under the Qun. If I pick a Qunari who swears to the Qun, then I should be able to choose to adhere to the Qun. I should not have a tal-vashoth choice forced on me. The same goes for the philosophical subject of gender and a character from Tevinter.

 

Also, on a side note, The Sten outright states that a woman cannot be a man. So the jury is still out on what the Qun says. The Iron Bull was most likely lying about aqun-athlok.

 

Well there is interview of Gaider where he opens up Qun and being transgender a bit.

 

 

Around 8:20->

 

Basically Krem being trans opened new ideas one being how Iron Bull as qunari would approach transgenderism, that lead into conversation about how qunari views gender which is different than we do. <- shortened version on what he says.

 

So I see that statement as that writers were thinking about their own lore on Qunaris and Qun and how being trans would fit to their gender view. It can be seen as them forwarding the lore or making readjustments, but I think it's pretty much canon that Qunari does see transgenders as gender they are not gender they are born with.

[Donk]

So a post apparently got removed, yet all my posts are still here. Either way... Screw off Mod, I didn't break a single rule in this topic and you know it. I clicked "acknowledged the warning", but I actually don't. Well, I acknowledge you issued one. But not that it was legitimate. If a post does get removed, I'll repost if it I know for a fact it was within the rules boundaries.

 

They're rather selective in this forum.

[Dai Grepher]

There's no difference, other than the fact that you think getting to yell some obscenities at a particular character on an IRL social issue is "defining your character" in some special way that's intrinsically worth development resources over some other choice, like yelling at Aldous or Mother Mallol that you think the eldery are leeches on the wealth of the Couslands and that they should be replaced with younger, and therefore less expensive to support, staff. 

 

Again, prejudicial assumption about my motive and demand, which at this point is ad hominem. I never wrote that we should be able to yell some obscenities at a particular character.

 

Do you even know what point you're responding to? The difference was between plot necessary choices and dialogue options on side issues. And you think there's no difference other than the "fact" that I supposedly think something? This has nothing to do with what I think. You aren't even replying to points I've made!

 

But on your point of comparing dialogue choices, do you really think that having the option to voice disagreement through once sentence of dialogue on the issue of transgenderism is something too heinous to be allowed, when in Origins we have the option to threaten to cut the tongue out of our old nanny's head? Are you serious?

[andy6915]

They're rather selective in this forum.

 

Yeah. Seems more like a mod picking a side and playing favorites than actually moderating. I've seen this before, side against a well known feminist or take the "wrong" side in a debate like this... And mods conveniently only moderate your posts, even when the people you're arguing with are being just as bad.

[Dai Grepher]

You got to admit, the series is definitely restricting your ability to be an evil dick more and more with each game. And that includes being able to be a bigot, if you so choose. For goodness sakes, you could break up with Zevran because you found out he's had sex with men before if ask about his past sexual encounters. Breaking up with someone because they've been in a same-sex relationship before is the very definition of being able to be a bigot, and you was allowed it. I've never done that to him, because I want to be able to actually like my characters. But it's still a loss of RP ability that previous games gave you.

 

It's not even just about being evil. At this point it's more about BioWare forcing thought control on players. And no one would be cool with this if the situation were reversed. In fact, they weren't. People demanded that we be allowed to refuse the title of Herald of Andraste. They wanted the option to say they were not chosen by Andraste. So all the social justice warriors demanding a dialogue option be banned because they personally don't like it just seems awfully hypocritical to me.

[Donk]

Yeah. Seems more like a mod picking a side and playing favorites than actually moderating. I've seen this before, side against a well known feminist or take the "wrong" side in a debate like this... And mods conveniently only moderate your posts, even when the people you're arguing with are being just as bad.

 

I find human nature to be narrow and base in general; they only perceive what's on the surface, so the trick to the trade here is type out novels filled with huge intellectual words and fill it with political correctness, while maintaining a very obvious "I'm better than you" superiority in the tone. This is how people bring the fight in the BSN.

 

People just don't like cold, hard honesty and bluntness.

[Dai Grepher]

Well there is interview of Gaider where he opens up Qun and being transgender a bit.

 

Basically Krem being trans opened new ideas one being how Iron Bull as qunari would approach transgenderism, that lead into conversation about how qunari views gender which is different than we do. <- shortened version on what he says.

 

So I see that statement as that writers were thinking about their own lore on Qunaris and Qun and how being trans would fit to their gender view. It can be seen as them forwarding the lore or making readjustments, but I think it's pretty much canon that Qunari does see transgenders as gender they are not gender they are born with.

 

Didn't we already establish that David Gaider is wrong?

 

In that interview he didn't say the Quanri view on gender changed. He even confirmed that the Qunari see gender different from how "we" do. And I think he was referring to the people at BioWare when he said "we". But I am aware of his post here in the BSN, and in that case, yes, David Gaider is 100% wrong. The Sten clearly proves that the Qunari link gender to the person's physical sex, and that one gender cannot ever change to the other. He even says you'd have a better chance at living on the moon.

[Panda]

It's not even just about being evil. At this point it's more about BioWare forcing thought control on players. And no one would be cool with this if the situation were reversed. In fact, they weren't. People demanded that we be allowed to refuse the title of Herald of Andraste. They wanted the option to say they were not chosen by Andraste. So all the social justice warriors demanding a dialogue option be banned because they personally don't like it just seems awfully hypocritical to me.

 

Dialogue option being banned? In game you can react many ways people calling you herald of Andraste, you can refuse, be unsure or accept so nothing was banned. Also how you know that SJW's asked/demanded for option to refuse and not just "regular gamers" (whatever that is)?

[Panda]

Didn't we already establish that David Gaider is wrong?

 

In that interview he didn't say the Quanri view on gender changed. He even confirmed that the Qunari see gender different from how "we" do. And I think he was referring to the people at BioWare when he said "we". But I am aware of his post here in the BSN, and in that case, yes, David Gaider is 100% wrong. The Sten clearly proves that the Qunari link gender to the person's physical sex, and that one gender cannot ever change to the other. He even says you'd have a better chance at living on the moon.

 

Well that's how they ended up Qun approving transgenders in DAI at least. If you want to stick with your interpretation on what Sten said about gender I guess it's fine, but other people might take writers word on DA's lore ^^

[Donk]

Found out the post, reposting as best I can from memory. This proves it was just them picking sides, this doesn't remotely break the rules. Most bad thing I did was call the feminists who made the guy cry "@ssholes" as a censor bypass... Which has strangely never gotten me in trouble before, not until I used it for feminists. I'll not do that specifically to them again, to be sure the mod has no ammunition whatsoever this time. I'll use slightly gentler words.


Why did you shoot credibility in the face like that? What did it do to you? What did it do to have you murder it like that?

Sarcasm aside, you're awful. You defend that liar in the same paragraph that you defend the sick* feminists who bullied an innocent scientist about a shirt until he cried on national television on what should have been the best day of his life. You sicken me, you're morally and ethically bankrupt.

I'm not too worried here. There isn't a single rule breaking thing in the post, in any way. Unless calling someone immoral and saying they sicken me is flaming now? I won't be getting banned or anything, or at least I shouldn't. Not for merely reposting a non-offensive post anyway, edited to be even less harsh than last time.

Don't stress too much about it.

You will get warning points.. They will add up. Then one day they might randomly decide to ban you.. Could be a day, or even two.

Then you will be back again, and the warning points will pile up, but no difference is ever made really.

Then if you want to bypass the ban altogether, all you have to do is make an alternate Origin account, behave yourself for 10 posts to be approved, then away you go

[andy6915]

Don't stress too much about it.

You will get warning points.. They will add up. Then one day they might randomly decide to ban you.. Could be a day, or even two.

Then you will be back again, and the warning points will pile up, but no difference is ever made really.

Then if you want to bypass the ban altogether, all you have to do is make an alternate Origin account, behave yourself for 10 posts to be approved, then away you go

 

It's actually really bad. New Origins account=lose your keep, lose your DLC history and purchases, lose your... Everything. It affects far more than the forum.

 

By the way, edit your quote. I edited the post you quoted, not going to risk them using an a non-direct censor bypass against me.

[Donk]

Dialogue option being banned? In game you can react many ways people calling you herald of Andraste, you can refuse, be unsure or accept so nothing was banned. Also how you know that SJW's asked/demanded for option to refuse and not just "regular gamers" (whatever that is)?

The issue there is that no matter what you say, people still think you're the Herald. So while you do have dialogue options, it makes no difference to the bigger picture.

On the Krem dialogue issue: sure, let the person be a bigot. However, Krem should be allowed to punch you out, or say something nasty back to you. I mean, that's a realistic role play scenario right?
I imagine that if the scenario occurred in real life, and you said something rude or judgemental to a transgendered person, they would be inclined to punch you out. Which is their right.

[andy6915]

On the Krem dialogue issue: sure, let the person be a bigot. However, Krem should be allowed to punch you out, or say something nasty back to you. I mean, that's a realistic role play scenario right?
I imagine that if the scenario occurred in real life, and you said something rude or judgemental to a transgendered person, they would be inclined to punch you out. Which is their right.

 

That... Would be awesome. Act like a bigot, get decked. It'd be even better if the character, if they were a party member, just up and left the party or had their approval instantly drop into the negatives. Like calling Merrill a knife ear and having her leave the party for good because of it, or something.

[Yumakooma]

Eh, I don't mind who writes what as long as its a good plot.

 

This thread shows the whole reason I only lurk and rarely ever post here. Every other thread somebody has to start bickering about genders or sexualities lol. There is a lot more to the game than these things... they are among the most insignificant parts for me -shrugs-

[maia0407]

That video is from someone more knowledgeable than me, eloquent than me, researched than me, with lots of citations, made over the course of weeks. That video will give you every argument and fact I could make in 1 tenth the time it would take me to type a large post. So you're either scared to watch it, or your ludicrously petty. Period. You only want me to make the argument because you know I'll be a lot less researched and good at making points than the vid, you know I'll be "easier". That's the point, isn't it, to avoid having your little hero knocked down no matter what? You could just watch and learn something, but that is too hard for you. Far easier to make a million posts about why you don't want to.

Whelp, that settles that. Can't make your own argument so you want me to do the work for you and argue against a video. No thanks but thanks for playing.

[Donk]

Eh, I don't mind who writes what as long as its a good plot.

This thread shows the whole reason I only lurk and rarely ever post here. Every other thread somebody has to start bickering about genders or sexualities lol. There is a lot more to the game than these things... they are among the most insignificant parts for me -shrugs-

As I often say, there are thousands of topics on the BSN, but in truth only five

[andy6915]

Whelp, that settles that. Can't make your own argument so you want me to do the work for you and argue against a video. No thanks but thanks for playing.

 

Coward. You can't spend a mere 20 minutes watching a video, because of it having a position you don't like. Every time. This happens every time. You send a video to a SJW that you know will utterly destroy their position, and they find some excuse to not watch it. Every. Single. Time. Without exception. There has not been a single instance in the entire time I've dealt with them where this pattern was broken. And once again, pattern continued. Can you guys not be predictable, just once? No matter, other people likely watched it. I suppose trying to change the mind of an Anita fanboy/fangirl is like making a creationist accept evolution... Won't happen, they won't listen.

[Panda]

The issue there is that no matter what you say, people still think you're the Herald. So while you do have dialogue options, it makes no difference to the bigger picture.

On the Krem dialogue issue: sure, let the person be a bigot. However, Krem should be allowed to punch you out, or say something nasty back to you. I mean, that's a realistic role play scenario right?
I imagine that if the scenario occurred in real life, and you said something rude or judgemental to a transgendered person, they would be inclined to punch you out. Which is their right.

 

Ah yes it bothered me as well with my Inquisitors who are anti-Chantry. It would be nice if at least inner circle had decency to stop calling you that after you have said it to them couple times ^^;

 

I don't personally think it would be that good idea to have dialogue options like that. It wouldn't fit that well to the world I think, since transphobia doesn't seem to be thing. Though I think some other dialogue options were quite akward in terms of fitting to the world as well with Krem.

[Dai Grepher]

Dialogue option being banned? In game you can react many ways people calling you herald of Andraste, you can refuse, be unsure or accept so nothing was banned. Also how you know that SJW's asked/demanded for option to refuse and not just "regular gamers" (whatever that is)?

 

No, I wrote that responding to the issue of transgenderism in a way that shows disapproval of it is something SJWs want banned from the next game, yet for Inquisition they were screaming about player choice in being able to reject the idea that they were chosen by Andraste.
 

[Dai Grepher]

Well that's how they ended up Qun approving transgenders in DAI at least. If you want to stick with your interpretation on what Sten said about gender I guess it's fine, but other people might take writers word on DA's lore ^^

 

I don't think they did. All the talk about aqun-athlok came from Hissrad (which means liar). He could have just been saying that to make Krem feel better, or to pretend that this is what the Qun actually believes because it's what he wants the Qun to believe.

 

It isn't my interpretation of what Sten said, it's what he actually said. The writers cannot refute this. So if they contradict it then they are in conflict with the canon and are thus wrong.

[Panda]

No, I wrote that responding to the issue of transgenderism in a way that shows disapproval of it is something SJWs want banned from the next game, yet for Inquisition they were screaming about player choice in being able to reject the idea that they were chosen by Andraste.
 

 

I don't agree that SJW's were demanding choice to reject being chosen by Andraste, I think it's more like DA players who like playing elf characters or pro-mage characters mostly. Though I want that option as well for some of my characters, Andraste is very in-game thing and not being able to refuse would limit my especially my elven characters a lot who have their own gods. I don't think it was as much as demanding than asking and Bioware confirming that there is choice to reject it.

[Dai Grepher]

On the Krem dialogue issue: sure, let the person be a bigot. However, Krem should be allowed to punch you out, or say something nasty back to you. I mean, that's a realistic role play scenario right?
I imagine that if the scenario occurred in real life, and you said something rude or judgemental to a transgendered person, they would be inclined to punch you out. Which is their right.

 

Mmmm... no, I'm pretty sure they don't have the right to physically assault someone because they said something they didn't like. I'm also sure transgenders would take great offense at such a depiction of a transgender character being violent when someone refuses to affirm their belief.
 

[Ashaantha]

ahh my pet peeve in-game! everyone thinks my Inquisitor is the Herald of Andraste no matter how loudly my Inquisitor screams that she is no such thing