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Dwarven society is the dumbest and most blind society in Thedas.


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#51
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Considering all the horrible things the Chantry has done, I don't think they've got enough punishment. Besides, they are still around and still in power.

 

Being in power means little to me as a player. All that matters to me with a faction is it's identity and how it stands apart. Having a recognizable place in the setting. They barely have one now. And what it does have won't be explored much again. It's next to impossible to do so anyways.

 

As for punishment, they haven't gotten much of any real punishment to begin with. Except dumb plots. They're just victims of crappy writing. Not punishment. There isn't any particular faction kicking their ass or something. 


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#52
The Lone Shadow

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Being in power means little to me as a player. All that matters to me with a faction is it's identity and how it stands apart. Having a recognizable place in the setting. They barely have one now. And what it does have won't be explored much again. It's next to impossible to do so anyways.

 

As for punishment, they haven't gotten much of any real punishment to begin with. Except dumb plots. They're just victims of crappy writing. Not punishment. There isn't any particular faction kicking their ass or something. 

I never got the sense that the Chantry was losing its identity or its place in the setting. Could you elaborate?



#53
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I never got the sense that the Chantry was losing its identity or its place in the setting. Could you elaborate?

 

That's basically what the whole game is about to me. The Inquisitor and Corypheus are the destroyers of the old Chantry identity (and maybe Anders before). The Inquisitor more indirectly so, but it's the same thing as Corypheus. They are playing the new god of this world, whether they like it or not. Corypheus has his vision and the Inquisitor has his/her own random stuff that the player feels strongly about.

 

Either way, the Chantry loses. EVEN IF the Inquisitor took a traditionalist route, the mere fact that someone had that power over them is a loss of identity of sorts. It's now just some faction to fulfill player power fantasies. Not a thing in itself.

 

That said, I sound like I'm echoing Bhelen and Loghain. They didn't like meddlers either. They thought only insiders and natives could save Ferelden or Orzammar. And to me they're right. That's how nations and institutions generally work. But it didn't dawn on me how awful this level of "choicemaking" is until Inquisition and they brought religion into it.


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#54
Jedi Master of Orion

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The codex that mentions greater pride demons sort of makes it sound like they are a hypothetical threat that might threaten the world, not one that has ever been encountered before. Second, the Maker being a Greater Pride Demon is the opposite of what would then make sense. If it cared that much about feeding it's ego by being worshiped it would be the opposite of silent and would be as active as possible.

 

Also it's "Andrastianism" not "Andrasteism."


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#55
DebatableBubble

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Being in power means little to me as a player. All that matters to me with a faction is it's identity and how it stands apart. Having a recognizable place in the setting. They barely have one now. And what it does have won't be explored much again. It's next to impossible to do so anyways.

 

As for punishment, they haven't gotten much of any real punishment to begin with. Except dumb plots. They're just victims of crappy writing. Not punishment. There isn't any particular faction kicking their ass or something. 

 

I feel ya. The Templars and the Seekers, as well. But Bioware was so focused on victimizing the mages and elves and, judging by the people on these forums and Tumblr, they succeeded.



#56
thats1evildude

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No, she was just a regular pride demon. A GREATER pride demon would rival or surpass a blight or even the Breach in terms of danger.

 

Ehhhhhhhhhh. I wouldn't put too much stock in that codex. I've seen a lot of pride demons, and none of them came close to posing that kind of threat except the Baroness.

 

I don't think you quite grasp the severity of the Blight. The darkspawn have brought down down two of the greatest civilizations to ever exist. The Western Approach was once verdant grassland before the darkspawn corrupted it. The Anderfels are a Blighted wasteland. Life itself weakens during a Blight; crops fail, disease spreads and the birth rate drops.

 

Demons are a terrible threat, but a manageable one. Every victory over the darkspawn has only been a delaying action.



#57
zambingo

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I don't think The Maker is a Greater Pride Demon. I think The Maker is a cross between The Dude from The Big Lebowski and God from Dogma.

#58
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I feel ya. The Templars and the Seekers, as well. But Bioware was so focused on victimizing the mages and elves and, judging by the people on these forums and Tumblr, they succeeded.

 

I don't know if that was their real motive going into it, but the number of iconoclastic plot points almost seems like it.

 

I remember pre-release, Sheryl Chee made a funny post defending the Chantry. link. So she isn't that way, as far as writers go.


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#59
King Killoth

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If you want a logical religion go join the Qunari..at least that has some concept of the greater good and putting the well being of the people over the betterment of an single person. each society in thedas has its own inherent flaws as it shows how no one way is perfect or right but how its the people of these nations that give it power and form. much like our own real world faiths and nations no one is considered Superior to all by the entire world but is often seen that way by the people of said faiths or religions. I think that is what the teams at Bioware where going for. no one thing is right or perfect every thing is how it would be if it was real broken and flawed. 



#60
Jackums

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Really, the most pragmatic and sensible society in Thedas is the Qunari. To them, race, nationality, and class background does not matter, they will take you in and put you to work in a field where they deem you capable of fulfilling based on your talents and skills. They even put prisoners to work. In their society everyone has a role and are seen as valuable to the function of society.  Its like a well oiled machine. Racism, bigotry, and elitism do not help the machine run better, so they are discarded. Which is why my castless dwarf is such a huge qunari fan so much so that she wants to join the qun. The only kinds of people they have a problem with in their society are mages, but there is a more logical reason for it and that is that mages can become hosts to demons.

 

I'm not saying that the Qunari are the best society, the whole mind controlling drug and the use a psychological torture to make rebels  submissive is greatly disturbing. But out of all the races they are the most pragmatic, brutally so.

 

The Qunari are one of the most bigoted factions in the game, for the very fact that "pragmatism" is an irrefutable absolute to them, to the point of ignorance and inflexibility. Being cautious of mages for them quickly extends to rigid fear. Magic, as has been shown in the game countless times, is best countered and resolved via magic. The Qunari's dogmatic refusal to consider this makes them one of the least well-quipped in Thedas to combat, say, the darkspawn threat. In terms of military, they may be one of, if not the, greatest nations in Thedas, yet it's still ultimately fruitless when they deny self-education on one of the most fundamental aspects of Thedas; magic. It's self-inflicted stagnation.

 

Arguing that the blight wouldn't exist in the first place if it were not for other more willing nations is both conjecture and recently implied outright false (the blight having existed prior to the magisters entering the Black City, which if we're to believe Cory, was already black). Though regardless of the truth there, magic is an integral part of the world of Thedas, and it's naive to expect that by leashing every magical being you encounter, that there would never be a magic problem to begin with. And if they acknoweldge otherwise, they have to also acknowledge that their refusal to understand magic will result in an eventual magical problem they cannot resolve with their basic, if that, understanding of magic. Preventing the problem and being capable of resolving the problem; if magic were a one-off occurrence, the former would be more viable an approach, but in the case of Thedas, it's not a standalone anomaly, it's a very part of the world's nature, and thus by that very fact, the Qunari are one of the most primitive and underdeveloped societies in Thedas.

 

Though every nation and mentality has its issues, and many of the Qunari's philosophies would greatly benefit certain other nations. None of this is to imply the Qunari wholly inferior, or to ignore the flaws in other societies, but I also wouldn't glorify the Qunari's approach built on foundations of ignorance and fear, ironically not very pragmatic at all. Though purely in terms of the social "system," I can agree the Qunari have one of the most fair philosophies. Though we'd need to ignore all that comes with that.


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#61
zambingo

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If we postulate that the Golden City exists in a realm outside of space/time, existing at all times and touching all existence but not attached to any time, then the perception of such a reality by a linear being could be mind blowing /or damaging. Entry into such a realm by a linear being could be destructive, perhaps due to forcing the realm to anchor to a point in time by that entry.

In this scenario the Golden City could be golden as described, full of light whatever etc, but instantaneously altered across space/time by the entry of the linear perspective. While the change is instantaneous upon entry by the linear being perhaps it starts from the center of the realm out like a pebble dropped into still water. This undulation of change could be why knowledge of the city as being golden exists even though the change is affecting all of it across space/time. The linear perspective that is in the realm perhaps can't process this change across space/time and instead just sees the Golden City in it's altered state.

Essentially this makes it possible for Cory to be both right and wrong.

#62
MisterJB

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How did a thread about dwarven society became about the Chantry three pages in?



#63
andy6915

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How did a thread about dwarven society became about the Chantry three pages in?

 

 

As the one who made this thread... I have no clue.



#64
zambingo

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I believe the conversation flowed from the Dwarven religion of The Stone, red lyrium, the blight and then forward logically to Chantry lore about the topics. Not hard to figure out, even without rereading the thread.

#65
The Lone Shadow

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How did a thread about dwarven society became about the Chantry three pages in?

 

Like a worm the Chantry just wiggled its way in here, like it tried to do in Orzammar back in D:O.



#66
andy6915

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Like a worm the Chantry just wiggled its way in here, like it tried to do in Orzammar back in D:O.


I always tell that guy to sod off.

#67
Absafraginlootly

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*snip* Wonder if Kal-Sharok managed to avoid shoving their heads up their own asses, unlike my city? *snip*

 

Since they've been separated from orzammer culture for centuries they could potentially have an extremely different culture and governing body.

 

I really hope we get to see Kal-Sharok and how it differs.