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#1
AndromedaRecon

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REALISM: WHAT ANDROMEDA SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT

 

One of the many reasons many people love the Mass Effect franchise is because of its believability.

There are great storylines, great people to interact with, and great ambience. 

I've always appreciated Bioware's storytelling; ME1 was probably the first game that put players at the helm; although it could be seen as primitive from today's standpoint, it did immerse the players in the story and made them appreciate the plot much more than they would have if not for the interactive dialogue wheel as well as the Paragon/Renegade inputs introduced in later iterations. That's probably the reason why many people have experienced an altogether different and more engaging RPG trilogy through the years with Shep and his/her team. Admittedly, the ending of the trilogy was a bit off the mark. I wouldn't call it a devasting flop; and I would certainly not call it a series-killer. The concept of Shepard's sacrifice was executed well, and I felt it was really the only way to go to conclude a plot that had grown to such voluminous proportions over the course of its synopsis. I did however, feel that the ending could have been a bit more dynamic; instead of same reactions and different color pastes, we could have had an altogether different ending; say, we could have had direct input and different choices on the strategy of the final battle on London (I figured being a legendary human commander, we would have had some sort of say, but ... well, no). The choices made throughout the five years could really have been shown appreciation and consideration. Bioware, late as it is (we figure you've already gotten past the foundations and are well into the wrap-up...considering we're only a year away from holiday 2016), here's a brief run down. 

 

1. INVOLVING AND REALISTIC PLOT.

I honestly don't see how I'd get over the original trilogy .... and silly enough I'm waiting for a great remake of the original a few years into the future. I think that'd be a great idea. But since Bioware is going ahead with Andromeda, they'll need to make it right. I personally would really not appreciate an alternate reality timeline or some sort of leave-the-rotting-galaxy-and-go-to-mine-gold-in-andromeda type of plot jump. Milky Way has to be there; and this just has to be an expansion of galactic races onto a new world with their advent in technologies. I mean, if Earth is rotting, how the hell are we supposed to get to the Shepard memorial that's most likely built there?! 

 

2. REAL GRIT, REAL ENGINES, REAL HEAVY BOOMS.

Now THIS IS IMPORTANT.

There was one recurring thing I didn't like about the Mass Effect trilogy. This flaw was most exploited in ME3; during its wide array of space battles and everything. I really enjoyed the militarized armies and the concept of interstellar armed forces coming together. But my god Bioware why are they all white and green and blue and red and toyish? Giant dreadnaughts better sound massive and almost fear-inducing; physics needed to be on a heavier side; military vehicles needed to be felt that way; Makos were silver plated with blue decals, armor was colorful and not really accompanying; Look at a Kwunu. Looks like a dreadnaught size designer chopstick for kids. I'm sure the codex explanations sufficed, but the theme didn't really work out. Just take a minute to remember the final flight scene. If you had a 100percent readiness, you'd see that Alliance fighter pilot gunning down that Reaper baby red eye pod whatsits with a stream of bullets. Listen to that bullet sound; and you'll know just what I'm talking about. Big bad space stuff need to be heavy and loud and imposing. The military rovers and everything need to be gritty, angry, growling, heavy, and occasionally rusty and dirty. I just want the sound job to be done right. Like the Reapers. Both from ME1 and ME3; the Reaper cries were spot on; the echoes were great and you could hear that Reaper yell from the immersive gameplay. 
When I looked at the new Andromeda Mako .... it was white, it was shiny, it sounded like a battery powered Toyota concept pod. Not really a forte but I can't say I hate it. I just really wished they'd made these things more realistic. 

 

 

3. DESOLATION AND VASTNESS.

I honestly think that the huge FTL-typish thing we saw on N7 Day 2014 is the huge FTL teleporter that leads to Andromeda .... link here; http://blog.bioware....1/MEScreen2.jpg.. 

we also need a real galaxy ... I mean, the original trilogy was great, but the galaxy map? I mean; quit insulting the Milky Way! You get from one end to the other end with simple annoying three second cutscenes and the whole thing looked remarkably like some toy board game. The galaxy is a huge huge place, and I just couldn't get that feel with the original map. Add the context that you are exploring some new galaxy, that element of fear needs to be in there. I can't simply be the adventurous joyride anymore. And by FEAR I don't mean that i-have-a-torchlight-in-a-dark-corridor-and-oh-****-a-zombie-is-crawling-out-of-that-corner fear; I mean the kind of fear associated with adventure; that fear which makes players wonder if this is really going to be round trip or a short, meaningless one way hellride.

 

4. REAL.

like I wrote above; it needs to be a realistic one; Andromeda needs to design the whole game world based on today and with considerations of the future; stuff that players can look at and think 'Well, that's a spot on idea for sth in the future'. I'd still like Star Trek if it wasn't for the ridiculous person-warp-thing that Spock uses to jump down upon Khan or that rather bewildering time travel concept. 
The original trilogy was a great fusion of the sci fi genre that established it as an interesting interpretation of the far away future without too much gimmicks. And although I felt the 2180s timeline was a bit too close to the present for comfort, it was a good undertaking. Oh, and Bioware, no blue tint for biotics please. I mean, you could sort of create visual ripples (like heat waves from overheated rifles during reloads in ME2 and ME3) with different strengths and deepness to depict biotics. Sure, Asaris? That's fine. But Miri turning all blue wasn't a great pro in my book. 

 

That said, I'm waiting for Holiday 2016. Don't even think about a delay 'cause we would have waited for four years straight. 

TO BE UPDATED.

 

 



#2
camphor

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i was gonna pick apart this post apart but its just to much work. there are to many things wrong here.

 

 nothing makes any noise in space sound doesn't work that way

 

 realism is a sliding scale and every single person is on a different part of it. you don't want real because you don't know what real is. Everything you have not experienced, you might have an idea of how you think it is, but that's not real.

 

some great example, ever punch or get punched in the face its not a deafening thud (unless you get hit in the back end of the head and that's just internal noise) its just a higher pitched slapping sound. ever hear an actual grenade go off? an actual 50 cal machine gun? ooo or a laser? none of them sound like any movie sound you have heard i assure you. (lasers dont make noise so yeah) ever been shot? hit by a car? thrown up against a wall by explosion? in real life you dont just ache for 10 seconds ands get up and keep running.

 

 mass effect the series that brought a person back to life for the sole reason of banging as many crew members as he or she could before a child made out of light makes you blow up the universe is really not the series to be pushing for realism,

 

long story short you want a bigger area better sound design and less color,


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#3
AlexiaRevan

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 I wouldn't call it a devasting flop; and I would certainly not call it a series-killer. 

they don't want to build ME:A on the crappy ending they made.....so the Trilogy end and stay like it is . yeah.no serie Killer....considering this new Me.A will be in a new galaxy just cose of that ending ... <_<


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#4
DaemionMoadrin

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Bwahahahaha... asks for realism and then complains about sound in space!

 

:lol:


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#5
Hanako Ikezawa

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Bwahahahaha... asks for realism and then complains about sound in space!

 

:lol:

Well, to be fair if there are enough particles in any part of space, then there is sound. But most of the places we hear sound in Mass Effect are places that don't have enough particles. 



#6
DaemionMoadrin

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Well, to be fair if there are enough particles in any part of space, then there is sound. But most of the places we hear sound in Mass Effect are places that don't have enough particles. 

 

Even if you had a huge field of debris, like the ship graveyard surrounding the Collector base, you would have no sound. As long as there is any vacuum between the source and receiver, it will prevent sound waves from propagating. Even assuming you're in a massive dust cloud (which would have to be as dense as sand under gravity, so 99% solid), the ship's shields would maintain the vacuum immediately surrounding the hull.

 

Space = vacuum = no sound. Also, laser pulses are too fast to be seen.



#7
rashie

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Bwahahahaha... asks for realism and then complains about sound in space!

 

:lol:

In space, no one can hear you scream


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#8
DaemionMoadrin

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In space, no one can hear you scream

 

Space Quest 6: The Spinal Frontier. "In space, no one can hear you clean."

 

^^


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#9
Toasted Llama

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In space, no one can hear you scream

 

That comment feels extremely appropriate with that Kerbal Space Program icon of yours.


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#10
rashie

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That comment feels extremely appropriate with that Kerbal Space Program icon of yours.

Too true, have crashed more times than I can count on moons and planets with no atmosphere.

 

Seriously though, to the OP, you need air for sound to exist in the way you are used to. You don't have that in, well, space. You are asking for good video game sound design, not realism.



#11
Hanako Ikezawa

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Even if you had a huge field of debris, like the ship graveyard surrounding the Collector base, you would have no sound. As long as there is any vacuum between the source and receiver, it will prevent sound waves from propagating. Even assuming you're in a massive dust cloud (which would have to be as dense as sand under gravity, so 99% solid), the ship's shields would maintain the vacuum immediately surrounding the hull.

 

Space = vacuum = no sound. Also, laser pulses are too fast to be seen.

I forgot that the shields creates a vacuum between them and the ship. As for space itself, it's close to a vacuum but is not actually a pure vacuum. If it was a pure vacuum, there would be nothing in it whatsoever. But there are atoms in the 'vacuum' of space, thus sound is possible if there are enough and they make contact, transmitting the vibration. Now whether this is sound you would hear is a different matter entirely. It would be so soft since there is so few particles vibrating that you'd need a special microphone to pick them up. That how we got the sounds that planets make recorded. 

 

Yeah, lasers travel at light speed so you'd only see them if it was a constant stream. Most laser guns we see in science fiction are actually plasma weapons. 


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#12
Kabooooom

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Lol at this thread - if the space battles were realistic, they would probably be pretty boring because you wouldn't hear a damn thing. Think silent film. Except even those had music. So like, even more lame than that.

I am all for realism, I made a post about making sure the star systems are scientifically accurate or reasonably so. Ignoring such things breaks immersion. But there is a limit - and having sound in space is one of those 100% unrealistic things that are necessary because its a video game.

So....yeah...no.

#13
Dantriges

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The sound came from the audio simulators. ;)


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#14
General TSAR

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I don't care about realism, just adhere to the rules of your universe. 


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#15
Kabooooom

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The sound came from the audio simulators. ;)


This is probably true, actually, as an in-universe explanation of it. Sound is useful, especially for alerting people fighting in a vacuum if weaponfire came close to them and in what direction - a convenience of combat in atmosphere but not in space.

Also, with regards to the definition of sound in space - there is a minimum density of gas through which sound effectively cannot propagate. When the pressure is so minimal that it can be considered a vacuum, sound cannot propagate because it doesn't just depend on vibration of molecules, it depends on transfer of kinetic energy between them.
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#16
DaemionMoadrin

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As for space itself, it's close to a vacuum but is not actually a pure vacuum. If it was a pure vacuum, there would be nothing in it whatsoever. But there are atoms in the 'vacuum' of space, thus sound is possible if there are enough and they make contact, transmitting the vibration.

 

A vacuum created on Earth is fully capable of blocking sound despite that fact that it has magnitudes more particles in it than space. We're talking about maybe half a dozen hydrogen atoms per cubic meter. That's nothing and certaintly not enough to transmit anything.



#17
Hanako Ikezawa

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The sound came from the audio simulators. ;)

No. NASA took the sound they recorded and translated it into sound the human ear can hear. They are still by definition sound.

 

A vacuum created on Earth is fully capable of blocking sound despite that fact that it has magnitudes more particles in it than space. We're talking about maybe half a dozen hydrogen atoms per cubic meter. That's nothing and certaintly not enough to transmit anything.

All you need is one particle hitting another particle to transmit the vibration. So in order for a vacuum to be vacuum enough to make it impossible for sound to propagate, you need a maximum of one particle in the entire vacuum. Nowhere in the universe is there a vacuum that pure. 

 

I had to do a paper about sound in space in one of my astronomy classes, if you're curious why I'm debating this. Pus I love talking about astronomy. ^_^



#18
Sylvius the Mad

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No. NASA took the sound they recorded and translated it into sound the human ear can hear. They are still by definition sound.

All you need is one particle hitting another particle to transmit the vibration. So in order for a vacuum to be vacuum enough to make it impossible for sound to propagate, you need a maximum of one particle in the entire vacuum. Nowhere in the universe is there a vacuum that pure.

For the purposes of this discussion, though, we're talking about whether spacecraft and explosions should be audible, and they clearly shouldn't. Yes, there's technically no such thing as a vacuum (virtual particles are always springing into existence), but there's not enough of any relevant transmission medium for us to hear a ship's engines outside the ship.

Even inside a nebula, there's just not enough gas.

I'm curious, where are you studying astronomy? I studied Astrophysics at the University of Calgary.
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#19
Zerc

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Go home Casey Hudson, we want video gamey video games!



#20
Hanako Ikezawa

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For the purposes of this discussion, though, we're talking about whether spacecraft and explosions should be audible, and they clearly shouldn't. Yes, there's technically no such thing as a vacuum (virtual particles are always springing into existence), but there's not enough of any relevant transmission medium for us to hear a ship's engines outside the ship.

Even inside a nebula, there's just not enough gas.

I'm curious, where are you studying astronomy? I studied Astrophysics at the University of Calgary.

Oh, I know. I was just discussing that technically sound does exist in space. Basically: 

Is there sound in space? Yes 

Can the human ear hear it? No

 

Well, I haven't gone to a university yet. But I'm taking classes that count for college credit. Is the University of Calgary really good? 



#21
Jorji Costava

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I'll admit here that I've never been one to nitpick at the various implausibilities and inconsistencies of fictional stories. In my view, realism has to be carefully balanced against other storytelling goals: Pacing, tone, theme, characterization, atmosphere, etc. One of my favorite examples to illustrate this lesson comes from Das Boot, generally considered one of the most realistic war movies ever made. Lothar-Günther Buchheim, author of the book on which the film was based, disagreed with this assessment.

 

One example he cited of the film's implausibilities involves a scene in which U96 (the German U-Boat at the center of the film) is rapidly sinking below the depth it was designed to handle; several bolts in the ship's interior are seen loosening and popping as a result. Buchheim noted that even one such bolt loosening in this fashion would have been cause for total panic among the crew. He found this to be a case of sacrificing realism for cheap thrills, but I would describe it as sacrificing realism in order to communicate information to the viewer in a visual way, without the need for dialogue. By showing the bolts loosening we immediately grasp the seriousness of the crew's predicament without the need for any dialogue to the effect of, "We're in a lot of danger!!"

 

These kinds of trade-offs between realism and other storytelling considerations strike me as sensible decisions by creators. We probably shouldn't demand as much plausibility from ME as we would demand from Das Boot (when in reality ME never displayed the most realistic science).


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#22
DaemionMoadrin

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Oh, I know. I was just discussing that technically sound does exist in space. Basically: 

Is there sound in space? Yes 

Can the human ear hear it? No

 

Well, I haven't gone to a university yet. But I'm taking classes that count for college credit. Is the University of Calgary really good? 

 

Hrm well, okay.

 

Still doesn't make sense on the physics side. A sound wave is basically kinetic energy that is distributed from one particle to the next. I have no idea how that kinetic energy could travel between the only two hydrogen atoms in a cubic meter of space. For that they'd need to be close enough to affect each others.

 

@Jorji Costava: Complete realism can't be expected in fiction. Mass Effect is very, very soft sci-fi. It had some good ideas but it's too inconsistent. BioWare also gets a lot of things completely wrong. ^^ I do not mind story telling devices or tropes like "scan this planet for lifeforms" because no one wants to experience tedious boredom in a game. But stuff like finding a solid block of mercury on a temperate world? Eh... that can be done better. ;)



#23
Sylvius the Mad

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Oh, I know. I was just discussing that technically sound does exist in space. Basically:
Is there sound in space? Yes
Can the human ear hear it? No

Well, I haven't gone to a university yet. But I'm taking classes that count for college credit. Is the University of Calgary really good?

Not particularly. It's probably an average Canadian school, but they don't all offer Astrophysics programs.

#24
goishen

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All that a vacuum means though is that it is below atmospheric pressure.   Is a vacuum cleaner a vacuum?  Sure.  Because it creates a pressure below atmospheric pressure.  Is space a vacuum?  Sure.  Because it's below atmospheric pressure.



#25
Malanek

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Space battles can't really be given realistic cutscenes. Space is huge and the ships are moving very fast, you would only see little dots of light outside the ship in focus. I'm pretty sure we can all agree this is something that shouldn't be realistic.

 

Where I think realism needs to be emphasized is in characters and their motivations and relationships. They are the most relateable part of the ME world to the real world and the writing and plot should flow out of them naturally and coherently. 


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