84 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Basing an enemy's entire combat difficulty around stunlock is not good gameplay design. Taking control of the player's character away from them constantly and forcing them to watch the combat helplessly while being unable to take any action isn't really gameplay, at all.

 

Obviously the Geth and the Collectors are the extreme examples of this in ME 3, but in DA:I and DAMP, the demon characters rely heavily on stunlock, as well. There's nothing difficult or challenging about stunlock when it makes no difference what a player does. No amount of "skill" matters when you don't control your own character.

 

The anecdote that I now regret sharing:

Having just spent over an hour repeating the Demon Rift at the Hinterlands Farm at the river cliff, and failing dozens of times, I can say that the only reason that encounter is disrupting my ability to progress is because of a stunlock wall that I cannot get past to continue the story.

Update: I posted this thread, then immediately returned to playing the encounter, and completed the rift. This anecdote is not the point of the thread, and was only ever intended to be an example.

[Teddie Sage]

Switch to another character then? That complain is ridiculous in my opinion. But whatever, if you just want to play your PC, I can understand why it's frustrating. Though playing other characters shouldn't be that much of a problem since most of them share the same sort of abilities you can learn on your Inquisitor.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Switch to another character then?

 

I'm not interested in starting over with a new character, and doing so wouldn't change anything.

[Teddie Sage]

I meant your companions. They're not there just to be pretty you know.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I meant your companions. They're not there just to be pretty you know.

 

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then please don't make suggestions as though I'm stupid.

 

Stunlock prevents the control of whichever character you are using.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Switch to another character then? That complain is ridiculous in my opinion. But whatever, if you just want to play your PC, I can understand why it's frustrating. Though playing other characters shouldn't be that much of a problem since most of them share the same sort of abilities you can learn on your Inquisitor.

 

Again, if you don't understand what I'm talking about, please don't make suggestions as though I'm stupid.

[Teddie Sage]

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then please don't make suggestions as though I'm stupid.

 

Stunlock prevents the control of whichever character you are using.

Which is why I switch to another character and do not complain about it?

Playing the game the way it was intended is fun sometimes.

You should try.

[Cmpunker13]

If you're melee just stunlock the enemies yourself: cc is king at the beginning of the game. Having a 2handed warrior with mighty blow/pummel strike, a tank with payback strike/ shield bash and a mage with ice mine/winter grasp in the party will help a lot. Also taking skills like combat roll/evade/fade step help a lot too.

[MaxQuartiroli]

What level are you? That rift is over-leveled for that area, therefore I suppose that you may fall even if they didn't use that strategy.

Save that fight for later or use the immortal druffalo to get rid of the rift

[Teddie Sage]

Sorry I was an a**. Listen to what those two are saying.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Which is why I switch to another character and do not complain about it?

Playing the game the way it was intended is fun sometimes.

You should try.

 

For the last time, if you don't understand what I'm talking about, don't make suggestions as though I'm stupid. Do you not have anything better to do with your time? Don't bother answering that.

 

If you're melee just stunlock the enemies yourself: cc is king at the beginning of the game. Having a 2handed warrior with mighty blow/pummel strike, a tank with payback strike/ shield bash and a mage with ice mine/winter grasp in the party will help a lot. Also taking skills like combat roll/evade/fade step help a lot too.

 

I'm not having an issue with the enemies in general. I've finished the game, and played the MP a fair amount. I actually find that 95% of the game is far too easy. My issue is specifically with stunlock. The particular Spawn of demons and location of the rift was designed to limit the player's ability to stunlock the enemies, or prevent their own stunlock.

 

Having played past this section before, I know that I can run around grinding levels to overpower the demons by overleveling, but my suggestion to BioWare is that they don't rely on stunlock to force me to do that.

 

People complaining about BioWare using stunlock is bit of a broken record, I know, and they obviously haven't stopped using it in spite of those complaints, but my frustration this morning prompted me to try convincing them to go a different route again. What can I say, I was annoyed.

[ashwind]

Which is why I switch to another character and do not complain about it?

Playing the game the way it was intended is fun sometimes.

You should try.

 

I think the OP is referring to the Terror demons that burrows and pop up for aoe knockdown. When encountered in numbers and if caught in a bad position, they can literally stun lock your entire party if you do not have the required skill to get out of it.

 

@OP

There are skills that allows you to recover from disable skills and skills that allow you to escape the green circle before they knock you down. If you do not have such skills you could come back later. Spacing also helps but if you have the required skills and is of within their level, the fight would be tough but very doable. If you spec your characters correctly... well... tis them who will be stun locked.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

What level are you? That rift is over-leveled for that area, therefore I suppose that you may fall even if they didn't use that strategy.

Save that fight for later or use the immortal druffalo to get rid of the rift

 

I tried sneaking past it a couple of times to grab the Druffalo, but the stunlock always stopped me before I got far enough away.

 

In any case, my complaint is less about this particular Rift and more about the consistent use of stunlock to remove control from the player as a way of artificially creating challenge. This Rift was just one of a few examples that I gave.

 

I was ultimately able to grind out the victory, but I would very much like to try and convince BioWare to significantly reduce their reliance on stunlock as a gameplay design choice.

[Teddie Sage]

I think the OP is referring to the Terror demons that burrows and pop up for aoe knockdown. When encountered in numbers and if caught in a bad position, they can literally stun lock your entire party if you do not have the required skill to get out of it.

Happened to me once or twice, it's not really the end of the world if you're well prepared and have good armors, plenty of potions and a way to restore Guard pretty fast. Cassandra has a good skill for that and having two mage casting barriers help a lot.

[Teddie Sage]

 

For the last time, if you don't understand what I'm talking about, don't make suggestions as though I'm stupid. Do you not have anything better to do with your time? Don't bother answering that.

 

Sending you back your question because clearly instead of finding a solution to the tactics, you complain about them.

[Cmpunker13]

 

I'm not having an issue with the enemies in general. I've finished the game, and played the MP a fair amount. I actually find that 95% of the game is far too easy. My issue is specifically with stunlock. The particular Spawn of demons and location of the rift was designed to limit the player's ability to stunlock the enemies, or prevent their own stunlock.

 

 

I know of what rift you're talking about. As MaxQuartiroli said you could be underlevelled. However you can stunlock terrors and despair demons, which are the kind of enemies you get from that rift; if you avoid the terror's knockout you can stunlock them.

 

The things that I hate about Bioware difficulty are the one-shot enemies, like assassins or mages in DA2 or assassins in JoH.

[Teddie Sage]

Also, try using this section next time.
http://forum.bioware...ombat-strategy/

[fchopin]

If you go to the back of them and stand a little far so when they start appearing you can tell your teammates to hold and pick some of them from far so the fight becomes easier.

 

Try using different tactics and don't just fight in the middle of them.

[katerinafm]

There are abilities meant to counter stunning or your character being stuck. Rolling for warriors, leaping shot for archers, etc. I found rolling especially useful against getting frozen in Jaws of Hakkon.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Sending you back your question because clearly instead of finding a solution to the tactics, you complain about them.

 

I can only assume that you are deliberately misreading me in order to try and troll me or something. I am not capable of making myself any clearer, so it seems to me you're probably ignoring what I write on purpose.

 

Also, try using this section next time.
http://forum.bioware...ombat-strategy/

 

Why? This is feedback. I am making a suggestion. Try reading what I'm writing instead of acting like a douchenozzle because you happen to feel like being a jerk to a random stranger online.

[ashwind]

Basing an enemy's entire combat difficulty around stunlock is not good gameplay design. Taking control of the player's character away from them constantly and forcing them to watch the combat helplessly while being unable to take any action isn't really gameplay, at all.

 

Obviously the Geth and the Collectors are the extreme examples of this in ME 3, but in DA:I, the demon characters rely entirely on stunlock, as well.

 

Having just spent over an hour repeating the Demon Rift at the Hinterlands Farm at the river cliff, and failing dozens of times, I can say that the only reason that encounter is disrupting my ability to progress is because of a stunlock wall that I cannot get past to continue the story. There's nothing difficult or challenging about it, since it makes literally no difference what I do. No amount of "skill" matters when you don't even control your own character.

 

IMO enemies that stuns is a valid design. As far as "skill" is concern. As long as you are skillful enough to evade/avoid them, they cant really stun you because.... they are slow and tis hard to miss the glowing circle.

 

What design are you suggesting for difficulty? You said stunlock is bad but you are not suggesting an alternative...

 

How does the Geth and Collector stun lock in ME2/3.... they can do that? hrmf... never notice.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I know of what rift you're talking about. As MaxQuartiroli said you could be underlevelled. However you can stunlock terrors and despair demons, which are the kind of enemies you get from that rift; if you avoid the terror's knockout you can stunlock them.

 

The things that I hate about Bioware difficulty are the one-shot enemies, like assassins or mages in DA2 or assassins in JoH.

 

I remember being very annoyed by the rift the first time I played, as well. I could have come back at a higher level, or turned the difficulty down a couple of settings, as alternatives. In retrospect, for the time it would have saved me, I wish I had just turned the difficulty down (but for some reason it didn't occur to me until after.)

 

If you go to the back of them and stand a little far so when they start appearing you can tell your teammates to hold and pick some of them from far so the fight becomes easier.

 

That was the stategy I was mostly trying to use. I had forgotten about the "Hold Position" command, though, so thank you for reminding me. All things considered, it was actually useful to have Cassandra fighting below while Varric and Solas were above.

 

Try using different tactics and don't just fight in the middle of them.

 

I assure you, I was not fighting in the middle of them! Well, not until I would get stunlocked and then surrounded.

[Teddie Sage]

I can only assume that you are deliberately misreading me in order to try and troll me or something. I am not capable of making myself any clearer, so it seems to me you're probably ignoring what I write on purpose.

 

Why? This is feedback. I am making a suggestion. Try reading what I'm writing instead of acting like a douchenozzle because you happen to feel like being a jerk to a random stranger online.

You know that BioWare barely answers anyone on this section, right? I may be using a passive aggressive tone, but that is no reason to call me names. Just do what the other people are suggesting you, follow a better tactic and everything will be fine.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

There are abilities meant to counter stunning or your character being stuck. Rolling for warriors, leaping shot for archers, etc.

 

At the time of this particular encounter, I was still building towards those abilities. What I mistakenly thought (no clue where I got the idea) was that going into stealth dropped Movement-impairing status effects, and I had intended to rely on that until I leveled up a couple of more times. I'm assuming that I got my games mixed up, because Stealth didn't seem to have any effect on slow, chill, or stun effects.

[Teddie Sage]

There are abilities meant to counter stunning or your character being stuck. Rolling for warriors, leaping shot for archers, etc. I found rolling especially useful against getting frozen in Jaws of Hakkon.

Yeah, the rolling trick works fine for me. I use that on my Blackwall.