84 réponses à ce sujet

[ashwind]

Yeah, the rolling trick works fine for me. I use that on my Blackwall.

 

Works better with a 2 hander. Combat Roll into Mighty Blow (since they just stand there after the reappear), now you have both recovered and stun them annoying terror demons 

[Teddie Sage]

Works better with a 2 hander. Combat Roll into Mighty Blow (since they just stand there after the reappear), now you have both recovered and stun them annoying terror demons 

I'm using a 2-handed build for Blackwall with his Champion spec.

[ashwind]

I'm using a 2-handed build for Blackwall with his Champion spec.

 

He is invincible then.

[Heimdall]

You know, if you head down river away from them and then cross, its pretty easy to get around that rift without triggering the fight, if getting Druffy past is your concern.

[ruggly]

Lrn2play scrub.

[Teddie Sage]

He is invincible then.

It's a bit more of a challenge at first on Nightmare, but it gets better as soon as you get better customized equipment that helps generating guard faster. Had no trouble using that build on Casual, Normal and Hard.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

You know, if you head down river away from them and then cross, its pretty easy to get around that rift without triggering the fight, if getting Druffy past is your concern.

 

There were a few missions sending me to the other side of it, including Druffy, but that wasn't my concern. And like I mentioned before, I have closed that particular rift at this point. I suspect I'll find whichever crossing that you're referring to whenever I play next, since I'm headed down the river.

 

Lrn2play scrub.

 

1v1 me!

 

 

THUNDADUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB!!!

[Heimdall]

There were a few missions sending me to the other side of it, including Druffy, but that wasn't my concern. And like I mentioned before, I have closed that particular rift at this point. I suspect I'll find whichever crossing that you're referring to whenever I play next, since I'm headed down the river.

Its not hard to find, though I missed it on my first playthrough, its in the direction of the wolves den.  You just have to follow the bank and you'll get right around it quick

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Its not hard to find, though I missed it on my first playthrough, its in the direction of the wolves den.  You just have to follow the bank and you'll get right around it quick

 

In fact, it was the very next place I went, as I ended up teleporting back to the camp to the west before heading back to the river. It's not all that obvious from either side, so I didn't notice it until after I closed the Rift.

[Lady Artifice]

Most people seem to be treating this as an issue of the OP needing combat and strategy tips, but I don't think that's the case. OP knows how to play. It's the combat mechanics themselves that could use improvement.

[FALCONGTX]

I suggest you to use Charging Bull from Vanguard abilities with any warrior, it's helped me alot against stunlocks.

[Heimdall]

I don't think it was a problem for the combat system.  Sure, it could be debilitating if you bunch up, but that's what shield bash is for

 

That particular rift just isn't something you're supposed to be tackling until later (A part of poor design in the Hinterlands, AKA, worst area in the game.

[Duelist]

To be fair, reliance on stunlocking to increase difficulty isn't restricted to DAI.

Dark Souls is bad for it too but it's less of an issue for those with high poise or those who can avoid getting hit.

I'm genuinely curious OP, no sarcasm intended, how would you go about rectifying it?
Personally as a rogue player, I'd like to see more enemies capable of one shotting party members a la DA2's annoying enemy assassins or AOE attacks like those frelling Saarebas.

[Patchwork]

I tried sneaking past it a couple of times to grab the Druffalo, but the stunlock always stopped me before I got far enough away.

 

In any case, my complaint is less about this particular Rift and more about the consistent use of stunlock to remove control from the player as a way of artificially creating challenge. This Rift was just one of a few examples that I gave.

 

I was ultimately able to grind out the victory, but I would very much like to try and convince BioWare to significantly reduce their reliance on stunlock as a gameplay design choice.

 

If you just want to get passed then stick to the opposite side of the incline and once you're in the river stay far enough away to avoid aggro-ing them.

 

You can lead the drufflo back the same way no problem. 

[I saved Star Wars :D]

Most people seem to be treating this as an issue of the OP needing combat and strategy tips, but I don't think that's the case. OP knows how to play. It's the combat mechanics themselves that could use improvement.

 

We are given a couple of seconds warning of when and where the demon appears, knocking the character down in the process, and given the option to take skills which allow you to either dodge or recover from the effect - it's one of the few fairly interesting mechanics in a game where the usual way that they inflate difficulty is to add hp or damage to the enemies.

 

Doing that is boring and the very definition of artificially challenging players because no amount of player ability changes those stats given to enemies. At least avoidable or counterable CC adds some level of gameplay to an otherwise low skill cap game.

[ruggly]

There were a few missions sending me to the other side of it, including Druffy, but that wasn't my concern. And like I mentioned before, I have closed that particular rift at this point. I suspect I'll find whichever crossing that you're referring to whenever I play next, since I'm headed down the river.

 

 

1v1 me!

 

 

THUNDADUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB!!!

 

IT'S ON!!!

 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Most people seem to be treating this as an issue of the OP needing combat and strategy tips, but I don't think that's the case. OP knows how to play. It's the combat mechanics themselves that could use improvement.

 

I'm sure not everyone agrees that the mechanics could use improvement. And that is certainly fine, but yes, my issue is that I don't like stunlock. I've mentioned a few times that I've already closed the rift.

 

I don't think it was a problem for the combat system.  Sure, it could be debilitating if you bunch up, but that's what shield bash is for

 

That particular rift just isn't something you're supposed to be tackling until later (A part of poor design in the Hinterlands, AKA, worst area in the game.

 

The Hinterlands is probably my least favourite area. There are things I like about it, but they aren't having much influence on my second playthrough, where I seem to be having less patience for the annoying elements of it.

 

To be fair, reliance on stunlocking to increase difficulty isn't restricted to DAI.

 

Definitely not. Two of the examples that I gave in the OP were from other games.

 

Dark Souls is bad for it too but it's less of an issue for those with high poise or those who can avoid getting hit.

 

Dark Souls is a very different kind of game. I'm not a fan of being stunlock'd to death in Dark Souls either, mind you, but I have a lot more power to prevent stunlock in Dark Souls than I do in Mass Effect or when fighting demons in DA:I.

 

I'm genuinely curious OP, no sarcasm intended, how would you go about rectifying it?

 

At this stage, it isn't possible to rectify it. The suggestion was a more general one for the design of future games, which is why I brought up ME 3 as an example. I suppose I could have put it in the ME 3 Feedback forum, but my instinct was that they check this one more often, these days.

 

As far as how I would design the combat in future BioWare games, that's a bigger question than I have an answer for, at the moment. In ME 3, Cerberus and the Reapers manage to be challenging while inflicting a small fraction the amount of stunlock that Geth and Collectors do. And by itself, it doesn't even make them more difficult, since under many circumstances, the Geth are actually easier to battle than the other three factions. The stunlock dramatically increases the frustration of the players, but does not necessarily make things more challenging.

 

So my suggestion to BioWare is to rely less on stunlock for challenging players, and more on the other techniques that they have used. I don't have any single idea of what they should do, as there are a variety of ways, but in the mix of design decisions, I think less stunlock is better. Especially in games that have strong RPG elements and use RNG as part of combat.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

We are given a couple of seconds warning of when and where the demon appears, knocking the character down in the process, and given the option to take skills which allow you to either dodge or recover from the effect - it's one of the few fairly interesting mechanics in a game where the usual way that they inflate difficulty is to add hp or damage to the enemies.

 

In general, it's a bad idea to force players to build a certain way in order to mitigate a game mechanic (it tends to limit player choice and create an "only certain builds work" environment.)

 

A single demon can be dealt with using a few different techniques, however there are factors that can render those techniques ineffective that are out of the players' control, or the player's control is limited. The encounter that I used as an example actually contains multiple stunlock demons of two different types, and they can attack in sequence, making dodges ineffective (I also mentioned earlier that I had only taken the prerequisite for dodge, but did not have it yet.) The visual "range" of the abilities is buggy, especially on the uneven terrain, often resulting in the player being impacted by stunlock that they were outside the range of. The rift itself can only be interacted with from two specific physical locations, both of which can be glitchy.

 

It's fine that you like games with stunlock, but I find it more frustrating than interesting. And of course I could grind levels and come back, but overleveling trivializes pretty much all the encounters in the game, not to mention is a tad on the boring side when you've already finished a game once.

[Lady Artifice]

I don't think it was a problem for the combat system.  Sure, it could be debilitating if you bunch up, but that's what shield bash is for

 

That particular rift just isn't something you're supposed to be tackling until later (A part of poor design in the Hinterlands, AKA, worst area in the game.

 

We are given a couple of seconds warning of when and where the demon appears, knocking the character down in the process, and given the option to take skills which allow you to either dodge or recover from the effect - it's one of the few fairly interesting mechanics in a game where the usual way that they inflate difficulty is to add hp or damage to the enemies.

 

Doing that is boring and the very definition of artificially challenging players because no amount of player ability changes those stats given to enemies. At least avoidable or counterable CC adds some level of gameplay to an otherwise low skill cap game.

 

To be honest, I have a lot of general complaints about the combat in DAI, but not necessarily the language to effectively communicate those complaints. While I know it's true that the rift in question is just a really high level one, and that there are definitely more shallow and artificial examples of gameplay and combat that one could find, my opinions about the examples in DAI are just not very high. 

 

Still, I know that's just a matter of my taste, and some people found the mechanics perfectly acceptable. They just feel clunky to me. 

[ashwind]

I'm sure not everyone agrees that the mechanics could use improvement. And that is certainly fine, but yes, my issue is that I don't like stunlock. I've mentioned a few times that I've already closed the rift.

 

 

The Hinterlands is probably my least favourite area. There are things I like about it, but they aren't having much influence on my second playthrough, where I seem to be having less patience for the annoying elements of it.

 

 

Definitely not.

 

 

Dark Souls is a very different kind of game. I'm not a fan of being stunlock'd to death in Dark Souls either, mind you, but I have a lot more power to prevent stunlock in Dark Souls than I do in Mass Effect or when fighting demons in DA:I.

 

 

At this stage, it isn't possible to rectify it. The suggestion was a more general one for the design of future games, which is why I brought up ME 3 as an example. I suppose I could have put it in the ME 3 Feedback forum, but my instinct was that they check this one more often, these days.

 

As far as how I would design the combat in future BioWare games, that's a bigger question than I have an answer for, at the moment. In ME 3, Cerberus and the Reapers manage to be challenging while inflicting a small fraction the amount of stunlock that Geth and Collectors do. And by itself, it doesn't even make them more difficult, since under many circumstances, the Geth are actually easier to battle than the other three factions. The stunlock dramatically increases the frustration of the players, but does not necessarily make things more challenging.

 

So my suggestion to BioWare is to rely less on stunlock for challenging players, and more on the other techniques that they have used. I don't have any single idea of what they should do, as there are a variety of ways, but in the mix of design decisions, I think less stunlock is better. Especially in games that have strong RPG elements and use RNG as part of combat.

 

Thing is ME2/3 has very little RNG in its combat. Tis an action game. I dont notice any "stunlock" and I have played them to death on only Insanity. How can they stunlock in ME2/3 is... beyond my comprehension.

 

DAI has little not no RNG as well. You can dodge and move away. When you swing your weapon at something point blank, it connects. Yes, stunlock is bad for games like say DAO when you dont have control over your characters to begin with - your stats/build determine everything. High enough defense and magically point blank attacks dont get you at all.

 

Enemies can generally do direct damage or disable. How different is stunlock vs extremely powerful attack that can kill you in a hit?

[Sunnie]

So, I have never ever, ever, been stunlocked in DAI.

If you are engaging or agroing the fade rift at the farm river, and you are not at least level 9, you are going to wipe. It may seem like stunlock, but it really isn't, you just don't have enough levels and defense to affect that encounter. That was specifically put there in order to make players think about how to deal with it at a lower level, and there are 2 more level 12 rifts as well in Hinterlands, both of which will do the same if you are not at least level 9.

Those encourage the player to come back later and one is near the first high dragon in the game, which is also level 12.

[Akrabra]

I think the Terrors can be an annoyance, but then again it is all about beeing vigilant. You can see them coming and you can build for it, heck if you don't have a roll/dodge or other ability you can run out of it with the right timing. What i think they should have introduced in DA:I seeing as it is an action rpg more than anything is a dodge button for all classes. It would have eliminated small annoyances like this without having to specialize for it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

If you are engaging or agroing the fade rift at the farm river, and you are not at least level 9, you are going to wipe.

 

That's not really true. I was level 5 when I closed that rift earlier today on the second-highest difficulty.

 

It may seem like stunlock, but it really isn't

 

No, it was definitely stunlock. I was recording it all, and every wipe ended with a stunlock sequence during which I did not have control of my character (whichever one I was controlling at the time.)

 

I could edit and upload video to demonstrate what I'm talking about, but it is generally accepted in the forums that some demon enemies use heavy stunlock as part of their attack. The MP Pride Demon was actually nerfed because of the stunlock issue.

 

So, I have never ever, ever, been stunlocked in DAI.

 

That would be statistically unusual, to say the least. During my first playthrough, I was completionist, and vastly overlevelled for pretty much all encounters after the Hinterlands. After that point, being overlevelled meant that even if I was stunlocked for a short period, it was not enough to be an issue, because high - level well-rounded companions and MC don't suffer enough damage to be killed in a stunlock sequence. Their defenses will be so high, and their armour so high that they can take 10 seconds of stunlock, stand up, and simply keep fighting with most of their health. The stunlock was still happening, it was just a minor annoyance that didn't significantly impact an over-leveled party.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

What i think they should have introduced in DA:I seeing as it is an action rpg more than anything is a dodge button for all classes. It would have eliminated small annoyances like this without having to specialize for it.

 

One of my favourite things about Neverwinter is that they did exactly that (not that I'd rush to praise Neverwinter, but it's a fun way to pass the time.)

[FALCONGTX]

That's not really true. I was level 5 when I closed that rift earlier today on the second-highest difficulty.

Yeah but this Rift is 12 lvl so you too low lever for that.