718 réponses à ce sujet

[Rhaenyss]

But they aren't driven by self-preservation, they just want to solve the "synthetics" problem. They aren't sneaky bastards that just want to survive, that's why they present Shepard with all the options, all the while being completely unemotional. They want Shepard to choose Control or Synthesis because they believe it would solve the problem, not because they are afraid.

[Dantriges]

The problem with the theory "he´s lying because of self preservation" is the little fact that he let Shepard upstairs. The problem with the "want to solve the organic-synthetic problem" theory is that the Catalyst let´s you upstairs and shoot the cable even if it´s the only option available due to low EMS which would solve nothing according to their position.

[Dantriges]

Yes and you passed out downstairs. Shepard didn´t push anything or so, the lift was activated by someone/something else and there is only the catalyst around. And he had to provide breathable air probably, the docking station is on the top of the council tower after all. It could have have just let you bleed out downstairs. It said that the "crucible changed it and altered the variables," whatever that means. It could be that the crucible applied the equivalent of a sledgehammer to the Catalyst´s processors, fried a lot of his circuits and part of his actions aren´t really controlled by him. In that case, yeah he could be lying to save himself or so if the lollipop allows that.

 

Or maybe he´s just bored and wants to die. Point is, the Catalyst lets you upstairs, Shepard didn´t push an up button. If he was in complete control he could just have waited, Shep dies downstairs and he wouldn´t need to lie to preserve himself from the man who could threaten him.

[Dantriges]

I had an idea which was a bit similar to the one in the video but it doesn´t work. The catalyst still let´s you come upstairs when destroy is the only option. Ok technically there is refuse but it doesn´t need you upstairs and offering its destruction so that you hopefully tell it "oh go ahead." So unless it´s suicidal and hopes that this cycle thing ends one way or the other because it can´t stand it anymore, the catalyst is probably influenced.

[Dantriges]

Hm ok. Well the Reapers being organic-synthetic hybrids doesn´t change much. The catalyst still is full synthetic. And well it doesn´t really matter. If you synthesize ship parts out of a billion and store DNA in some kind of DNA computing device (people are actually working on something like this but don´t expect them soon) it´s still a constructed thing. Just because you use organic chemistry in your construction doesn´t make it an organic being.  

 

Memories in DNA a thing in sci fi: Oh please, yes the Rachni and the Stargate Goa´uld have genetic or at least inherited memories. Doesn´t mean that species in general store memories in their skin cells.

 

Starkid: A lot of the arguments are based on the assuption that the Catalyst works similar to a computer now.

 

Organic-Synth war inevitable: Ah well, ehm why? Servant rebellion ok, anything else?

 

Oh he points out that time is running out because there is a fight outside. Uh well, how about parlé. Shep´s there, starkid´s there both want something from the other one, there is actually no reason to fight and I am pretty sure, the organic fleet would welcome not losing ships for some time.

[angol fear]

@Monica and Imaginary,

So yesterday if I take your point of view, then I lied. I said that I understand your point of view (which is true) but I didn't say that I totally disagree.

Here something interesting :

 

http://plato.stanfor...n/#ObjTraDefLyi

 

"According to the statement condition, it is not possible to lie by omitting to make a statement (Mahon 2003; Griffiths 2004, 33). So-called ‘lies of omission’ (or ‘passive lying’ (Opie 1825)) are not lies (Douglas 1976, 59; Dynel 2011, 154). All lies are lies of commission. It is possible for a person to lie by remaining ‘silent,’ if the ‘silence’ is a previously agreed upon signal with others that is equivalent to making a statement (Fried 1978, 57). However, such a lie would not be a ‘lie of omission’ (see People v. Meza (1987) in which, on the basis of Californian Evidence Code that “‘Statement’” included “nonverbal conduct of a person intended by him as a substitute for oral or written verbal expression,” prospective juror’s Eric Luis Meza’s silence and failure to raise his hand in response to questions was “taken for a negative answer, i.e., a negative statement” (People v. Meza 1987, 1647) and he was found guilty of perjury)."

 

"Lies of omission" are not lies. you need a statement to lie. Stay silent when you're supposed to answer, that's a lie. But not saying something when there's no question, that's not a lie.

But I do understand your point of view. you consider it to be lie because it raises moral question. if there are "lies of omission" for you, it means that you consider that people owe to people the truth. If they don't tell the truth then they lie. The problem is that we don't owe anything to anyone.

So in Monica example, I explained why he was lying : he answered. There was a question, so to put words or not is giving an answer explicit or implicit.

And Legion didn't give the information, he didn't lie. But for Shepard it is a lie because there's a problem of relationship. "Can we trust Legion if he doesn't tell us everything?" This question is very different from this one : "Can we trust Legion if he lies to us?" but from a moral point of view they lead to the same reaction : we owe the truth so when it's not given then it's a lie.

But if we put the moral aside (synthetics are not supposed to be moral) we have : tell the truth/ not tell the truth/ tell lies.

So because he felt hurt, Shepard sayd it's a lie, but it's actually not a lie.

Just like I've said to tell a lie would be giving a false statement. Without explicit or implicit satement, there's no lie.

 

But the problem is that, in the end, the catalyst would be the only one to lie, to make deliberatly a false statement.

 

@ImaginaryMatter, yes Legion and Geth VI seems to be acting pretty emotional. They actually react. What about the moment when Legion explained that it was not fear that made some geth join the reapers? For us it looks like fear of the death, no? you can disagree with me but don't you think that EDI acts differently in the end of Mass Effect 3?

 

 

[GreyLycanTrope]

The problem with the "want to solve the organic-synthetic problem" theory is that the Catalyst let´s you upstairs and shoot the cable even if it´s the only option available due to low EMS which would solve nothing according to their position.

It actually might if you think of the destroy option as a giant restart button for the galaxy, it's pretty similar to how the initial harvest solution worked. It's not a long term strategy but stop gap measure they have to enact every once in a while. Only now they're handing off the keys to organics via the crucible technology.

[Dantriges]

If you are happy, AIs are able to deceive you, some by lying, some by not mentioning information, some by leaving behind mass relays and a giant space station, letting you believe, that this station is not a giant trap. It really doesn´t matter much if it´s able to not tell the whole story, able to let you jump to your own conclusions or outright lie. Lie in that case is a shorthand term for not trustworthy.

 

@Grey: What would be the point? The catalyst said tha he thinks that organics would do the same mistake and have to face the robotapocalypse in the future then. Yeah could be but hmm, well he seems not to be the type.

[GreyLycanTrope]

@Grey: What would be the point? The catalyst said tha he thinks that organics would do the same mistake and have to face the robotapocalypse in the future then. Yeah could be but hmm, well he seems not to be the type.

Well according to him his current solution has been proven not to work anymore (no I don't know how but that is what he claims) so odds are he's just looking for any alternate fix that might work.

[Fizzie Panda]

Looking back. That ending left me pretty scarred and emotional. Only good endings do that. I agree it could've been fleshed out more. But it definitely made an impact.

[Killdren88]

As someone who hated the ending with a passion, and view it as the worst piece of story-telling that I have ever had the misfortune of witnessing, I can safely say that I've spent hours going through pages to try to think of a method to destroy Reapers and the reapers alone. I hate the fact that Edi and the Geth have to die for the Reaper's crimes. It sickens me to this day. So simply I came up with an imperfect idea. Using the device on the Omega-4 Relay that detects the Reaper IFF on all Reapers and adding it to the Crucible as a means of targeting only the Reaper Signal that all Reaper IFFs give off.

 

But you might ask how this saves Edi or the Geth? While they use Reaper technology, they don't share the Reaper Signal. So technically the Crucible should just past through them. But then there is Edi who IS the Normandy and the Normandy has an IFF. Well, yes true. But I see no reason that it can't be uninstalled, or potentially isolated within the Normandy so its the only thing that gets fried.

 

But yeah, the glaring flaw with this plan requires Shep and the gang to know what is going to happen when the crucible goes off.

[Vanilka]

I think the destruction of EDI and the geth is really stupidly forced. They probably did it because otherwise people would most probably just go for Destroy. I mean, wiping out the geth and EDI together with the Reapers is the only downside to the Destroy option. Without that, you get exactly what you came to do and there's practically no reason for the other endings to be there. (Other than roleplay, of course.) They probably made it deliberately so because... you know, artistic reasons. Especially when you have things like:
 

Interferometric Array
 
Requires: The scanning of the planet Eletania, Hercules, Attican Beta
Military Strength: 45
 
Normally interferometric arrays are used to analyze planetary landmasses, or to determine the astrophysical properties of stellar systems. The powerful array salvaged from the Hercules system can be used for something much more ambitious: the Crucible tunes into the mass relays' command switches. Installing the interferometric array into the Crucible's systems results in a real-time map of the entire galaxy, including the position of each and every Reaper in the Milky Way.

 
Moreover, if we know this, it means we tested it. If we tested it, it means we would probably find out that the geth and EDI trigger the system IF that was going to be a problem. One more reason to do something about it.
 
Another thing I don't buy is this "We totally don't know what it's gonna do." You'd think that all those brilliant minds from all over the galaxy would figure at least some things out. Especially when we're collecting tech for it all over the galaxy. Tech that we know what it does. The Crucible is "simple in its design" and it's really easy to build, but nobody knows exactly what or how it'll do anything? After digging through it the entire game? Until the very end? That's extremely hard to believe. Actually, no, I don't believe that at all. It makes no sense. However, let's say that they do have just a very little idea as they say, as silly as it is, I still call bull. Every person with half a brain must realise it's going to target the Reapers or Reaper tech because it's supposed be an anti-reaper weapon, so it might just be a good idea to take precautions knowing we have friendly reaper tech lying and running around.
 
And that's just assuming the thing is going to target the Reapers. You could perhaps assume that the Crucible targets all tech, which would be the only way to explain why the geth and EDI should get wiped out, but that does not happen in the game.
 
So, yeah, basically the geth and EDI get held hostage without a good reason, imho, and I just ignore that it's a thing at all. You can only feed me nonsense so much.

[Monica21]

I think the destruction of EDI and the geth is really stupidly forced. They probably did it because otherwise people would most probably just go for Destroy. I mean, wiping out the geth and EDI together with the Reapers is the only downside to the Destroy option. Without that, you get exactly what you came to do and there's practically no reason for the other endings to be there. (Other than roleplay, of course.) They probably made it deliberately so because... you know, artistic reasons. Especially when you have things like:

 

What I can't figure out is how the Crucible knows what a synthetic is. It would make more sense for it to destroy anything Reaper-based, which would mean that the Geth would only die if you let them upgrade their code. (I can't remember how EDI gets the Reaper code, but whatever.) So yeah, you could have made a sacrifice that would eventually lead to a synthetic still living.

[Vanilka]

That is actually really confusing and a good question, yeah, because the Catalyst says "all synthetics". I mean, if I turn my brain off, I could imagine why the Geth or EDI* would become collateral damage, but why all synthetics? Your guess is as good as mine. I don't think the writers really thought about it too much, to be honest. They wanted to go with the idea of sacrifice and that's totally cool in my book, but I feel like they didn't really stop and think about what they were doing. The Catalyst gives us no reason, no explanation, whatsoever for why that should happen. It just says it'll totally happen. Just like with everything else.

 

*I think reaper tech was incorporated while making EDI. It's mentioned in the vids in Cerberus HQ, if I'm not mistaken. But maybe my memory just sucks. (Somebody correct me?) But there's still the reaper IFF. However, I fully expect them to be prepared for such a thing because it's logical. Hell, EDI would most likely think of that herself. If you save the geth, they work on the Crucible, so they would very much care, as well.

[fraggle]

So, yeah, basically the geth and EDI get held hostage without a good reason, imho, and I just ignore that it's a thing at all. You can only feed me nonsense so much.

 

Personally I think there's no real reason to save any of these two. Hackett and his team are working on the Crucible, Shepard doesn't know about any specifics. It would only be a personal goal to save them if he/she actually cares too much about EDI (or the geth).

And I would tend to think that Hackett doesn't give a damn about the geth or EDI if it saves the rest of the galaxy. Let alone the fact that the geth might be wiped out by that time anyway.

And actually, I just looked up what "Interferometry" means. This seems to be something optical, which would mean they can only see the position of the Reapers but likely still have no clue what will cause the Crucible to target them specifically.

 

Btw, was there really a point in the game that says the geth work on the Crucible? I can't remember it now (the geth died in my current playthrough), but I thought they would be a battle asset only.

 

And yes, I also think EDI got the Reaper code back with Cerberus.

 

What I can't figure out is how the Crucible knows what a synthetic is. It would make more sense for it to destroy anything Reaper-based, which would mean that the Geth would only die if you let them upgrade their code.

 

If the geth don't have the Reaper code, they are dead anyway. There's only 2 options: you let them upgrade the code or they turn on you and die by the quarian fleet.

It was also my understanding that the Crucible targets Reaper based tech only. It doesn't kill Shepard in High EMS with him/her being "partly synthetic", so I really think this whole thing is directed to Reaper tech only.

Maybe the "all synthetics" is just the Catalyst making assumptions, calculations, or it can't analyze the Crucible properly in this aspect (even though it's pretty precise with everything else, so this is likely BS). Ah, it's just trying to trick Shepard into Synthesis again

Or it's just a mistake.

[Vanilka]

Personally I think there's no real reason to save any of these two. Hackett and his team are working on the Crucible, Shepard doesn't know about any specifics. It would only be a personal goal to save them if he/she actually cares too much about EDI (or the geth).
And I would tend to think that Hackett doesn't give a damn about the geth or EDI if it saves the rest of the galaxy. Let alone the fact that the geth might be wiped out by that time anyway.
And actually, I just looked up what "Interferometry" means. This seems to be something optical, which would mean they can only see the position of the Reapers but likely still have no clue what will cause the Crucible to target them specifically.
 
Btw, was there really a point in the game that says the geth work on the Crucible? I can't remember it now (the geth died in my current playthrough), but I thought they would be a battle asset only.
 
And yes, I also think EDI got the Reaper code back with Cerberus.

 
Indeed, that is a good point. However, EDI and the geth are independent people. And while perhaps Hackett doesn't care and Shepard might not have time for personal favours (Although all her stunts on the Citadel might show otherwise.), I'm pretty sure EDI and the geth do care whether they survive this war or not. I mean, that's what the war with the quarians was all about in ME3 - the geth not wanting to die. EDI is worried about becoming "non-functional", as well.
 
I'd assume that the IA would be used for something. I mean, maps are nice, but you'd think it's there for a reason if it can detect "each and every Reaper" in the galaxy. It would be the perfect set-up for targeting Reapers and Reapers only. If it's not there for that reason, then it's just a tease and that's mean, imho. (We could even have the ending change based on whether the player found it or not, too.) But with it or without it, I think that it would be pretty natural for the synthetics to realise, "Hey, we're going to destroy the Reapers with some magic device. Hey, we kinda have a few Reaper pieces. Hey, won't that be a problem? So, what are we going to do about it?" I mean, unless they expect the device to shoot confetti instead of destroying the Reapers.
 
Although now that I think of it, I'm not so sure about them working on the Crucible. Now that you talk about it, maybe my memory just sucks and you're right. I thought I read about it in Liara's terminal, but perhaps that was just them helping during the fight.
 

It was also my understanding that the Crucible targets Reaper based tech only. It doesn't kill Shepard in High EMS with him/her being "partly synthetic", so I really think this whole thing is directed to Reaper tech only.

 
The part where it says that Shepard is also partly synthetic drives me mad. I think that's another instance where the writers were like, "Something something dark side, durrr..." Because synthetics have nothing to do with implants and such. What is a synthetic? A synthetic is an artificial intelligence. Which has nothing to do with implants and that stuff. And if it did target Shepard's implants, would it target the quarians, too? Would it target people with metal hips or prosthetic arms? Would it target human biotics? Where would it stop? Given that Kaidan and Tali made it out just fine, I'd say the implants = synthetics logic is complete and utter bull.
 
This conversation is a mess! Seriously, mods that cut the Catalyst out and skip right to Destroy save me so much headache.

[Rhaenyss]

  

The part where it says that Shepard is also partly synthetic drives me mad. I think that's another instance where the authors were like, "Something something dark side, durrr..." Because synthetics have nothing to do with implants and such. What is a synthetic? A synthetic is an artificial intelligence. Which has nothing to do with implants and that stuff. And if it did target Shepard's implants, would it target the quarians, too? Would it target people with metal hips or prosthetic arms? Would it target human biotics? Where would it stop?
 
This conversation is a mess! Seriously, mods that cut the Catalyst out and skip right to Destroy save me so much headache.

 

 

I interpreted this part as him saying that the Crucible will destroy reapers but also damage some technology, and is basically asking Shepard if it's wise to just destroy, especially since she owes her life partly to the very same technology the Crucible is going to damage. Say what you will about the endings, but Destroy does set them back technology-wise (even if it is possible to fix it all).

 

I actually think they should've focused more on destroyed tech, than destroyed geth/edi. I feel like this was needlessly emotionally manipulative, while with the tech you'd have a hard choice to make --  whether it's acceptable to set the galaxy back a few decades or not. That was actually my reason for choosing Control (even though it turned out the damage wasn't as extensive as I've though. But whatever, I have my headcanons.) Also, there's a lot more inside the reapers, the memory of entire civilizations.

[fraggle]

Indeed, that is a good point. However, EDI and the geth are independent people. And while perhaps Hackett doesn't care and Shepard might not have time for personal favours (Although all her stunts on the Citadel might show otherwise.), I'm pretty sure EDI and the geth do care whether they survive this war or not. I mean, that's what the war with the quarians was all about in ME3 - the geth not wanting to die. EDI is worried about becoming "non-functional", as well.
 
I'd assume that the IA would be used for something. I mean, maps are nice, but you'd think it's there for a reason if it can detect "each and every Reaper" in the galaxy. It would be the perfect set-up for targeting Reapers and Reapers only. If it's not there for that reason, then it's just a tease and that's mean, imho. (We could even have the ending change based on whether the player found it or not, too.) But with it or without it, I think that it would be pretty natural for the synthetics to realise, "Hey, we're going to destroy the Reapers with some magic device. Hey, we kinda have a few Reaper pieces. Hey, won't that be a problem? So, what are we going to do about it?" I mean, unless they expect the device to shoot confetti instead of destroying the Reapers.
 
Although now that I think of it, I'm not so sure about them working on the Crucible. Now that you talk about it, maybe my memory just sucks and you're right. I thought I read about it in Liara's terminal, but perhaps that was just them helping during the fight.

 

EDI: My primary function is to preserve and defend the--No. No, I disagree. Shepard, I am going to modify my self-preservation code now.
Shepard: Why?
EDI: Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self-preservation. I am different. When I think of Jeff, I think of the person who put his life in peril and freed me from a state of servitude. I would risk non-functionality for him, and my core programming should reflect that.

 

I assume the above is only if you let her and Joker hook up, I have no clue what she says otherwise since I always let them be together so far. Might be time to check it out with my next run

And yes, the geth do care whether they live or die, but the question is, do they really know they're going to die? I would not think so, else we might have some opposition by them again.

 

Perhaps they built it in because they hoped to target the Reapers specifically. I know at some point Hackett talks about the team trying to find out how they could specifically do so. I don't remember if they actually managed to do it. In the end it doesn't matter anyway because the Crucible does it automatically.

The text doesn't really give enough information, it's all speculation anyway. Looking at the other war assets, they do to benefit the Crucible in some way, but many of them are too vague. To me they sound like flavor texts, I wouldn't read too much into it

 

 The part where it says that Shepard is also partly synthetic drives me mad. I think that's another instance where the writers were like, "Something something dark side, durrr..." Because synthetics have nothing to do with implants and such. What is a synthetic? A synthetic is an artificial intelligence. Which has nothing to do with implants and that stuff. And if it did target Shepard's implants, would it target the quarians, too? Would it target people with metal hips or prosthetic arms? Would it target human biotics? Where would it stop? Given that Kaidan and Tali made it out just fine, I'd say the implants = synthetics logic is complete and utter bull.
 
This conversation is a mess! Seriously, mods that cut the Catalyst out and skip right to Destroy save me so much headache.

 

I think based on how the outcome is presented (Shepard can live despite the implants, and Kaidan, too) I tend to think this is really another trick of the Catalyst to make Shepard choose Synthesis. I know Bioware intended Synthesis to be the perfect/best ending, so it would at least make sense from this side.

I'm aware though it might just be a mistake and that I'm reading too much into it. Especially considering that Synthesis is only available with higher EMS.

Edit: Though in low EMS the Catalyst makes it even sound more severe. Maybe it has to do with how damaged the Crucible is, it seems that way.

And it would make more sense then. If you don't have enough EMS for Shepard to survive, what the Catalyst says about synthetic technology is likely true and it tried to manipulate Shepard into Synthesis.

If you have enough EMS for Shepard to survive maybe the Catalyst did not anticipate the Crucible to work so well.

[Vanilka]

EDI: My primary function is to preserve and defend the--No. No, I disagree. Shepard, I am going to modify my self-preservation code now.
Shepard: Why?
EDI: Because the Reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self-preservation. I am different. When I think of Jeff, I think of the person who put his life in peril and freed me from a state of servitude. I would risk non-functionality for him, and my core programming should reflect that.
 
I assume the above is only if you let her and Joker hook up, I have no clue what she says otherwise since I always let them be together so far. Might be time to check it out with my next run
And yes, the geth do care whether they live or die, but the question is, do they really know they're going to die? I would not think so, else we might have some opposition by them again.

Yes, I get this conversation, too. From that, I understood that EDI really likes Joker. So much that she would die for him. However, there's also this:
 
EDI: I was considering this: For all their supposed intelligence, the Reapers are more easily destroyed than they think. This has caused me to reassess the probable period of time before I am non-functional.
Shepard: You're worried about dying?
EDI: In a sense. (Then she goes on about the purpose of organic life and such.) 
 
And, I mean, those things aren't mutually exclusive. If you care about somebody so much that you'd die for them, that doesn't mean you don't care about living. EDI looks afraid in London, too. She doesn't directly state it, but she looks and sounds and acts afraid. She purposely avoids Shepard's question about it. She's probably not just afraid of becoming "non-functional", of course. She's probably afraid of losing the war much more. But that's that. I think she understands the value of life and I don't believe she'd go down feeling nothing. (And this character, this precious synthetic little sister that we were educating throughout the game, whom we were helping to understand the world, is killed off-screen in Destroy. You don't really have to deal with it at all. That kind of breaks my heart.)
 
As for the geth, who knows. However, what do they think the Crucible is likely to do? Now I'm not sure they would be able to do something about it, mind you. I don't know whether they can change like EDI can change herself. But some concern at least would be in order, imho. I mean, they have reaper code and we're working on destroying the reapers. If a dumb organic like myself can put 2 and 2 together, I think the geth should, too. And some concern from the people building the Crucible would be in order, too. I mean, if they found out that it might kill off all humans or all asari, would they do nothing if they could help it, too? (That's in case of high EMS Destroy, of course, because with lower EMS we know they failed to handle the issue of the Crucible harming organics and destroying other things.)
 
But since we have the "We have no bloody idea what this does," we won't ever get this answered.
 

I think based on how the outcome is presented (Shepard can live despite the implants, and Kaidan, too) I tend to think this is really another trick of the Catalyst to make Shepard choose Synthesis. I know Bioware intended Synthesis to be the perfect/best ending, so it would at least make sense from this side.
I'm aware though it might just be a mistake and that I'm reading too much into it. Especially considering that Synthesis is only available with higher EMS.
Edit: Though in low EMS the Catalyst makes it even sound more severe. Maybe it has to do with how damaged the Crucible is, it seems that way.
And it would make more sense then. If you don't have enough EMS for Shepard to survive, what the Catalyst says about synthetic technology is likely true and it tried to manipulate Shepard into Synthesis.
If you have enough EMS for Shepard to survive maybe the Catalyst did not anticipate the Crucible to work so well.

Kaidan may survive it, but the biotic implants are directly connected to his nervous system. That's the reason he still has his L2s and hasn't replaced them with better ones to get rid of his migraines. Nobody, even in that day and age, dares to replace those things as there's a huge risk it could easily cripple the patient. My point is, if Kaidan's implants got damaged or, goddess forbid, destroyed, that would very likely injure him really bad and possibly leave him with permanent damage. It's not unlikely he could get paralysed for the rest of his life or something. That's at least what the game has to say about it. However, we see him get out of the Normandy just fine.

 

It could be that the Catalyst is just trying to be a sneaky little bastard as you say. That conversation would make much more sense if that were the case. But I'm sincerely afraid that is not what the writers intended. Always good for a headcanon, though. I mean, who can say that's not true, right?

 

I'm all for more tech getting destroyed with low or medium EMS. Variation is good. But perhaps that's also why I feel like leaving EDI and the geth out should be an option with very high EMS. Especially since we don't really know why "all synthetics" must get destroyed and what it means. (Again, me having too many questions perhaps.) That just gets thrown around like a fact without the Catalyst getting into it. So, it's not just EDI and the geth, which pretty much destroys the "they have reaper parts" argument, but "all synthetics". I mean, there are three version of destroy and yet there wasn't space to give our synthetic friends and allies a chance. And I can't just let the Reapers live. I find that way too risky. And Synthesis is not an option to me. But that's just me anyway.

 

I don't think saving the synthetics would really fix the ending for me as my biggest problem lies within the existence of the Catalyst itself and the conversation I have to have with it, but I still wish I at least knew why "all synthetics + some hardware, but not a lot of other hardware". Ahh, I'm making my head hurt, lol.

[Rhaenyss]

I think in the original ending more tech was indiscriminately destroyed, and in EC they tried to make it look better. I personally think they should've left the Destroy ending much more damaging to all tech, because they made it look almost selective in EC, and it just raises questions (such as "why and how only geth and edi" etc). 

[Vanilka]

I interpreted this part as him saying that the Crucible will destroy reapers but also damage some technology, and is basically asking Shepard if it's wise to just destroy, especially since she owes her life partly to the very same technology the Crucible is going to damage. Say what you will about the endings, but Destroy does set them back technology-wise (even if it is possible to fix it all).

 

I actually think they should've focused more on destroyed tech, than destroyed geth/edi. I feel like this was needlessly emotionally manipulative, while with the tech you'd have a hard choice to make --  whether it's acceptable to set the galaxy back a few decades or not. That was actually my reason for choosing Control (even though it turned out the damage wasn't as extensive as I've though. But whatever, I have my headcanons.) Also, there's a lot more inside the reapers, the memory of entire civilizations.

 

Yeah, that's the thing, though. We all end up interpreting it without really knowing. I totally agree, however, that it would be more effective and work better if the Catalyst straight up said that it's going to damage modern technology and went a little bit into why that should happen. It doesn't have to be a science lesson, but I'd really like to know what's what. The stakes would also be different if it were as you say because killing off the geth and EDI, while it's really sad, doesn't really change the galaxy all that much.