718 réponses à ce sujet

[prosthetic soul]

I actually have proven it officially, not on this forum, in a paper that you can buy. I have done it before the extended cut.

Oh lawd

 

[Beerfish]

The ending failed for two major reasons for me.

 

1)  In essence every choice was a sacrifice choice but just with a small difference in flavor that could not be fleshed out by a mere few second cutscene.  I believe many more people would have been fine with a sacrifice choice or two of the three if they actually did have a way out of it as well.  I felt like my Shepard was a failure at the end of the game because my end game goal was to stop the Reapers and live to tell the tale.

 

2) Rending down the opponent in the game to a hologam of a little kid was a horrible horrible decision.  I've done all of these things over 3 games and at the end I am being lectured by a little kid?  It did not fit and added to the 'I failed' feeling of the game.  I would have felt a lot better if Harbinger himself showed an in essence said....hey you beat us.  Now here are your choices.

 

As for some of the posts in this thread, it's a very poor author who blames his audience for 'not getting it'.

 

The endings overall stunk.  Great series, great games, great characters, great endings for ME1 and ME2.  Good but not great ME3 (they short shifted some important characters in my mind.)  ME3 endings, deserve all the criticism they have ever gotten.

[angol fear]

Oh lawd

Popular reading can laugh, it won't make it more intelligent, just more ridiculous. I suggest you to learn about the theories of writing, of reading, to read literature and philosophy then you can start to talk about all the concept you think you know. Wikipedia is for ignorant people who will still be ignorant my poor little boy, you will understand it in the end.

[Kabraxal]

I actually have proven it officially, not on this forum, in a paper that you can buy. I have done it before the extended cut.

What... you wrote a paper... that you could sell...... to claim an opinion as fact over a video game?  And I thought I had some issues with long posts for free on a forum.  But you not only take the cake, but the whole damn bakery.

 

 

Popular reading can laugh, it won't make it more intelligent, just more ridiculous. I suggest you to learn about the theories of writing, of reading, to read literature and philosophy then you can start to talk about all the concept you think you know. Wikipedia is for ignorant people who will still be ignorant my poor little boy, you will understand it in the end.

 

What in the hell are you even talking about?  A lot of people that have talked about the ending are trained in literature or philosophy, have read a lot, and have written themselves (even if not to a money making level).  All you are doing is thumping your chest while writing laughable posts that make everyone question your priorities in life.  You aren't looking like the intellectual superior you are making yourself out to be.  You are actually doing just the opposite with terrible posts like that.

[themikefest]

Popular reading can laugh, it won't make it more intelligent, just more ridiculous. I suggest you to learn about the theories of writing, of reading, to read literature and philosophy then you can start to talk about all the concept you think you know. Wikipedia is for ignorant people who will still be ignorant my poor little boy, you will understand it in the end.

Is there a reason for calling the poster a little boy or child? 

[Ithurael]

 

I actually have proven it officially, not on this forum, in a paper that you can buy. I have done it before the extended cut.

Angol, while I do enjoy your - gumption sometimes, you haven't really proven anything yet.

 

I am still working on my response which was (as of  yesterday) 100+ pages of citation, example and correlating to the source material. I am in review of it now and will try to post it next week (hopefully with less than 100 pages of text - maybe down to a healthy 15-25 pages. I couldn't work on it too much this week do the over abundance of 12+ hr days at work.

[Dantriges]

Is this comparison to literature not overlooking the fact that this is another medium where the audience is the central protagonist and is actively participating instead of simply consuming/reading/watching?

[fraggle]

I believe many more people would have been fine with a sacrifice choice or two of the three if they actually did have a way out of it as well.  I felt like my Shepard was a failure at the end of the game because my end game goal was to stop the Reapers and live to tell the tale.

 

High EMS Destroy does exactly that.

 

And Shepard being a failure because he/she sacrificed him/herself in the endings? Isn't that the opposite? Shepard stopped the Reaper cycles in all 3 normal endings, so how can it be a failure? Shepard gave all these people their lives back, there's no more death from Reaper side. Wouldn't call that failure.

[angol fear]

Angol, while I do enjoy your - gumption sometimes, you haven't really proven anything yet.

I am still working on my response which was (as of yesterday) 100+ pages of citation, example and correlating to the source material. I am in review of it now and will try to post it next week (hopefully with less than 100 pages of text - maybe down to a healthy 15-25 pages. I couldn't work on it too much this week do the over abundance of 12+ hr days at work.

I said I didn't do it on this forum. I only was answering the implicit question in our conversation and explained some aspects that are important but not seen by many. Take your time I am on hollidays and only come very quickly on this forum.

[angol fear]

Is this comparison to literature not overlooking the fact that this is another medium where the audience is the central protagonist and is actively participating instead of simply consuming/reading/watching?

Not really because video games based on narration aren't that interactive. And an open form doesn't change a lot how you analyze it. The basis of analysis of the narration is the same in a photo, a text, a film etc...

[BioWareM0d13]

I didn't like the original endings of Mass Effect 3, but I never had any problem with Shepard dying. I was half-expecting it going into Mass Effect 3. Had Shepard died while saving galactic civilization I probably would have loved the original endings.

 

For me the disappointment was both in the Catalyst reveal and in the implication that galactic civilization collapses for thousands of years. (pre-EC)

[Andrew Lucas]

This thread,

[Ithurael]

I said I didn't do it on this forum. I only was answering the implicit question in our conversation and explained some aspects that are important but not seen by many. Take your time I am on hollidays and only come very quickly on this forum.

Oh my,

 

Enjoy the holiday. And I will have to take time as I foresee another 80+ hr workweek this week.

 

I hope you go somewhere fun and exciting. Let me know via PM or post when you are back and I will post my findings (as I feel odd posting a response when someone cannot respond and I certainly wouldn't want to interfere in a vacation)

[God]

Stupidest reason to hate the ending?

 

If you think it's sad or because it makes you do something you don't want to do. Anything that has to do with 'thematically' doesn't fit the series.

[angol fear]

Stupidest reason to hate the ending?

If you think it's sad or because it makes you do something you don't want to do. Anything that has to do with 'thematically' doesn't fit the series.

Then you have to explain what makes something fit to the series. And how themes are not linked to the form.

[Uncle Jo]

Strawman and flame baiting. Kudo to you.

[angol fear]

If you don't see how themes and forms are linked that's your problem. What I ask from "god" is to prove some things that actually don't make sense. Form and content are the two parts of the same coin. You can"t separate them. If you do it it's just a theory but form create sense and content need a form to exist. Then if all you can do is irony, sure I won't take you seriously.

[God]

I think the underlying issue here is whether or not we should take you seriously. I'm still convinced that you're a ghost account of txgoldrush, what with how similar your rhetoric is and what your beliefs are (And how you use them to decry others). 

 

And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say that I don't care about whether or not you take it seriously. I already know how you feel, and for me to agree with you, I'd have to jump over some pretty wide intellectual gaps, ones that I'm unwilling to jump across because its disingenuous to understanding. And as you're of the folk who proclaims 'my definition ALONE is the truth' I think I can live with you not taking me seriously.

[angol fear]

I never said that my definition alone is the truth but unexperienced people talking about things they can't understand because they don't have knowledge about it (except internet knowledge, which means no knowledge, you proved it with our discussion about post modernism) that quite pretentious. Your point of view (the concept is good but the execution is bad) only reveals that you actually didn't get the writing because Mass Effect is one of the very few games which has got an execution that fits to the concept. Blaming one but liking the other doesn't make sense. But ok, we'll end here.

[Dantriges]

The execution is bad from a RPG design point of view.

[Kynare]

 

The endings will be the endings no matter what. What i hated was that you have been fighting to destory the reapers for all three games. You had to deal with two main bad guys that wanted synthesis ( Saren) and Control (Tim) clearly stating how BAD those two choices were Yet we are presented those choices Not even by our selves but by the biggest bad. The Reaper Boss himself.

 

 

The thing about personal interpretation and choice in these games is that I (and, headcanon-wise, my Shepard as well) never saw those choices as bad options. What made them "bad" was how Saren and TIM went about trying to achieve them. My Shepard worked with Cerberus for a whole year or however long it was. They saved her life and she was knee-deep in the fray seeing exactly how much credibility and competency Cerberus had, despite previous wrongdoings. To her, it was never a question of gaining control of the Reapers or not, but allowing TIM himself to gain control when he obviously had questionable motives. Same goes for Saren and his questionable sanity.

 

The Reapers' motives or "right and wrong" don't apply because they never explained their motive until the very end. There were only small indications throughout the games that they had a larger motive. By then, it's up to Shepard's instincts to take their word or not based on his/her previous experiences, which varies depending on each individual playthrough and how you perceive your Shepard to be. Personally, I feel that after knowing about the concept of synthesis from Saren and the facts presented by Cerberus about controlling the Reapers, hearing those options from the Catalyst itself didn't seem that out of the blue or unbelievable.

 

In any case, it's an interesting and twisted turn of events when Shepard ends up in the position where she has to choose to sacrifice for the sake of stopping/controlling or synthesizing with the Reapers, just like TIM and Saren did with their experiments, use of Reaper tech, etc. The moral of the story is that there was no right or wrong. They were all on the same side to stop the Reapers in their own ways. Shepard is just the only one who did it right. Or simply the right person at the right time.

 

There's the moral of the story, and then there's the technical details. Bioware may have failed in the technical part, but I was fairly satisfied with the overall story itself.

[angol fear]

There's the moral of the story, and then there's the technical details. Bioware may have failed in the technical part, but I was fairly satisfied with the overall story itself.

That's where I don't follow. The technical part is made to create that interpretation. Bioware didn't failed to trap the player, then to make him facing his own representations, to oblige him to see on higher perspective and finally to get free from the circles. The moral of the ending is created by its form.

[RatThing]

The ending isn't that intelligent. It is based on an idea that has too many logical errors and practically is contradicted by things you learned before in the games. The message of it is almost esoterical (synthesis inevitable ... yeah right). It only works for me because I have the destroy option, which is the option to reject the logic behind the catalysts' message, and because it is ambiguous enough to bring in my own ideas (plus because it wasn't like all those overly simplistic Paragon/Renegade choices you had before). Would I've been forced to actually solve this "problem" the catalyst is talking about, I probably would've joined the ending haters' faction because this is pure bollocks. 

[steinvegard]

I didnt mind Shepperd dying. I kinda excpected it throughout most of the game. I didnt mind a dark ending either. I also excpected that. The amount of death and destruction early in the game would have made a really happy ending seem hollow anyway.

What I did mind though, was suddenly seing Bioware embrace juvenile mid twenthieth century fascist ideology. The space child was like seing a simplified version of Mussolini deified and given oracle status. I dont think any Bioware writers are fascists, but that makes the stupidity of the writing just more annoying. Its like they had no idea about the actual content of their writing or what they were saying if one puts it in a real world context. The idea that a "super intelligence" would be so incompetent at philosophy and logic broke my suspension of disbelief completly

[God]

I didnt mind Shepperd dying. I kinda excpected it throughout most of the game. I didnt mind a dark ending either. I also excpected that. The amount of death and destruction early in the game would have made a really happy ending seem hollow anyway.

What I did mind though, was suddenly seing Bioware embrace juvenile mid twenthieth century fascist ideology. The space child was like seing a simplified version of Mussolini deified and given oracle status. I dont think any Bioware writers are fascists, but that makes the stupidity of the writing just more annoying. Its like they had no idea about the actual content of their writing or what they were saying if one puts it in a real world context. The idea that a "super intelligence" would be so incompetent at philosophy and logic broke my suspension of disbelief completly

 

*Shepard*. 

 

I don't really see how a darker setting makes a happy ending hollow. You survived. You persevered. Despite the costs, you overcame adversity and now have an ability to move forward and even evolve to a higher state of being. 

 

The Catalyst nor the Reapers was not fascism. I don't think you really understand either what BW was going for or what fascism is if you're labeling it as such. 

 

The concept was based on the ideology of order over chaos, and how to overcome it. It was about transcending our condition and moving past our nature. Organics and synthetics will always compete, and thus always come into conflict. The Catalyst had a mandate to prevent this and preserve life. It accomplished that via the Reapers, even if Synthesis is viewed as the ideal solution (which it is).