718 réponses à ce sujet

[Dantriges]

To be fair, though, sometimes it's necessary to provide feedback, even if the feedback is very negative because some things do deserve negative feedback in order for the company to know they did something wrong. This helps them improve. Such feedback doesn't always have to be accompanied by a solution. It just doesn't. That's not the customer's job. It's as when people complain about the evac scene and rightfully so because the Normandy appears in five seconds out of nowhere to pick up your companions and only your companions while people around you are dying while you're declaring your love to your LI with Harbinger staring at your butt. But, hey, he's patiently waiting until you're done, so it's fine. Even people who like the scene admit it's silly. I prefer it to be there instead of it not being there, as well. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to point out that, "Wow, that doesn't exactly make sense. Why doesn't Harby shoot the Normandy down or something? Why don't we pick the other injured and dying people up?" Etc. I don't think anybody can really argue it could've been done much better. Whether people like it or not, that's a personal opinion. And that's fine. However, it's not really my job as a person who bought the game with my own money to help the game's writers and devs fix it. Sometimes I wouldn't be able to provide my own ideas, but that doesn't mean the game has zero issues.
 

 

Now I have this idea in my head.

 

Normandy flies in to evac, final snuggle time with your LI.

 

Harbinger(Wrex style voice): Shepaaard.

Shep: Yeah, yeah, was is it. We are having a moment here.

Harb: You are not Miranda, stop showing your butt to me. And you have an appointment upstairs. We are on a tight schedule here.

Shep: Yeah yeah ok, I am coming. BTW why didn´t you shoot the Normandy?

Harb: I´ve got precise instructions. Do you know how hard it is to do a precision strike with this gun so that the target is wounded, got its armor and possibly grenades blasted away and is unable to use any powers but still able to hold a handgun and walk very slowly? You can´t do that by blasting a big chunk of metal. There could be unacceptable injuries caused by flying debris.

Shep: Stop whining you big baby.

Harb: Stupid organic, even that old dude Anderson passed you in the meantime. I hope you remembered to put on your uniform underneath, this is not a nude scene.

[Vanilka]

Now I have this idea in my head.

 

Normandy flies in to evac, final snuggle time with your LI.

 

Harbinger(Wrex style voice): Shepaaard.

Shep: Yeah, yeah, was is it. We are having a moment here.

Harb: You are not Miranda, stop showing your butt to me. And you have an appointment upstairs. We are on a tight schedule here.

Shep: Yeah yeah ok, I am coming. BTW why didn´t you shoot the Normandy?

Harb: I´ve got precise instructions. Do you know how hard it is to do a precision strike with this gun so that the target is wounded, got its armor and possibly grenades blasted away and is unable to use any powers but still able to hold a handgun and walk very slowly? You can´t do that by blasting a big chunk of metal. There could be unacceptable injuries caused by flying debris.

Shep: Stop whining you big baby.

Harb: Stupid organic, even that old dude Anderson passed you in the meantime. I hope you remembered to put on your uniform underneath, this is not a nude scene.

 

Aaand I'll never be able to take that scene seriously again.   Amazing.

[Goodmongo]

"Organic energy" makes me think biochemical, which means you can toss a wombat in there and get the same results.

 

Hell just grab a fern from the nearest Citadel apartment.

 

You thought wrong then.  First off the word "organic" was never part of the dialogue.  It was simply "energy".  In fact it was more specific in that they said they need "Shepard's energy".  So please avoid the logical fallacy.

[GreyLycanTrope]

You thought wrong then.  First off the word "organic" was never part of the dialogue.  It was simply "energy".  In fact it was more specific in that they said they need "Shepard's energy".  So please avoid the logical fallacy.

https://youtu.be/hstE9GSB-q0?t=27m6s

 

It has been three years, so I thought I'd double check my memory.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

https://youtu.be/hstE9GSB-q0?t=27m6s

 

It has been three years, so I thought I'd double check my memory.

 

Okay, first off, I have to include this somewhere...

 

Spoiler

 

And I just wanted to remind you to dress for the weather, don't accept that tasty-looking candy from the forum strangers (it's a trap) and always... always... wear a helmet. BSN was declared a hardhat zone. Yup, the whole thing.

 

Okay, have fun. Try not to get hurt.

 

[Goodmongo]

I couldn't see that link so went to Youtube and watched one.  https://www.youtube....h?v=BqGLDXbG90Y

 

Kid: There is another solution.  Synthesis.

Shep:  And that is?

Kid:  And your energy to the crucible.

Kid: The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework.  A new DNA.

Shep:  Explain how my energy can be added to the crucible.

Kid: Your organic energy, the energy of who and what you are will be broken down and then dispersed.

 

So yes it does say "organic energy".  I was clearly wrong there.  But it says "your energy", "my energy", "energy of who and what you are".  So it is dishonest to claim that some plant can suffice when it is crystal clear they are talking about Shepard and not just some part but the totality of who and what Shepard is.

 

So I was wrong on one word but 100% accurate on the real meaning behind the conversation.

[Dantriges]

Was rewatching it, too. Interesting. I was pretty sure that the leaves also had circuits but when I watched other vids there weren´t any IIRC.

[themikefest]

When the catalyst says your energy, it is referring to Shepard since she/he is the only one there. It would say the same if a Turian of Krogan was in place of Shepard. The catalyst just needed an organic.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Okay, have fun. Try not to get hurt.
 

Thanks mum.

 

I couldn't see that link so went to Youtube and watched one.  https://www.youtube....h?v=BqGLDXbG90Y

 

Kid: There is another solution.  Synthesis.

Shep:  And that is?

Kid:  And your energy to the crucible.

Kid: The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework.  A new DNA.

Shep:  Explain how my energy can be added to the crucible.

Kid: Your organic energy, the energy of who and what you are will be broken down and then dispersed.

 

So yes it does say "organic energy".  I was clearly wrong there.  But it says "your energy", "my energy", "energy of who and what you are".  So it is dishonest to claim that some plant can suffice when it is crystal clear they are talking about Shepard and not just some part but the totality of who and what Shepard is.

 

So I was wrong on one word but 100% accurate on the real meaning behind the conversation.

Except that the phrase is used specifically when he's asked to clarify what he means by shep's energy, so specifically Shep's organic energy. Or your organic energy if you prefer. Unless you're saying the crucible need specifically Shepard's organic energy for to work, and well in that case I just have to go back to my original point of things being a bit too contrived.

 

Was rewatching it, too. Interesting. I was pretty sure that the leaves also had circuits but when I watched other vids there weren´t any IIRC.

The leaves do have circuit patterns they're blue on green though so might depend the video clarity for how well it comes across. I'll see what I can dig up.

[AlanC9]

Trivial so long as they achieve their objective, they're desperation probably helps convince them they will, but it still strikes me as pushing it past the point of believable.

I don't see your point. The question of achieving the objective or not comes first, since it's vastly more important. Shepard's personal survival doesn't come up as long as victory's still conceivable, unless Shepard has really wacky priorities.

Can you run through it? Why would Shepard care enough about what happens to Shepard in the final choice for this to have any influence whatsoever on the decision?

[AlanC9]

There was no hint in this scifi franchise that there is something called a lifeforce or essence in the setting.

Again, except Legion. And maybe some of Javik's mumbo-jumbo, and some of the asari mumbo-jumbo. For that matter, there's a good deal of mumbo-jumbo around what exactly is preserved in the Reapers.

I'm not really sure this is worth talking about. We all knew that the reference to "energy" in the Catalyst's dialogue was mystical crap. Nobody here seriously thought that tossing a wombat in would actually have worked, right?

[Goodmongo]

When the catalyst says your energy, it is referring to Shepard since she/he is the only one there. It would say the same if a Turian of Krogan was in place of Shepard. The catalyst just needed an organic.

 

I don't think this is the case.  First off it was never said in any way that anyone can do it.  As for the actual dialogue it goes like this:

 

Shep:   Why couldn't you do it any sooner?

Kid: We have tried a similar solution in the past.  But it has always failed.  

Shep:  Why?

Kid: Because the organics were not ready.  It is not something that can be forced.

Kid:  You are ready.  And you may choose it.

Shep: I don't know.

Kid:  Why not?  Synthetics are already part of you.  Can you imagine your life without them?

 

So it is pretty clear that the catalyst was speaking directly to and about Shepard.  It wasn't referring to any organic.  Shepard may chose.  Shepard has synthetics as part of him/her. 

 

The thing that is unclear is "organics being ready now".  Since it was tried in the past others jumped into the beam and it didn't work.  Why?  Maybe the person doing the jumping was the key or maybe the whole organic race has to be ready.  But I doubt if it's the later.  You can never get all organics to be ready.  there will always be organics that don't agree.  So it appears it's not that the race is ready but instead a specific person with their individual energy of "who and what you are" is what is required.

 

So Shepard is the first organic to make it that far.  That means the other tries were them throwing the plant or other organics into the beam and it didn't work.  All of this supports that it requires Shepard's unique individual energy to make it work.

[GreyLycanTrope]

https://youtu.be/BqGLDXbG90Y?t=38m30s

 

You can't quite make out the patterns once they zoom out but you can see the blue light being emitted as it moves across the circuits on the leaves, similar to how the green version pulses arcoss people.

 

I don't see your point. The question of achieving the objective or not comes first, since it's vastly more important. Shepard's personal survival doesn't come up as long as victory's still conceivable, unless Shepard has really wacky priorities.

I don't really see yours, I said nothing about Shep's survival coming first, I was talking about them being willing to die only if they were pretty sure they'd get results doing so, otherwise they might just die and the war still goes on.

[Goodmongo]

 I was talking about them being willing to die only if they were pretty sure they'd get results doing so, otherwise they might just die and the war still goes on.

 

Which is what many soldiers all through history have done.  So why be surprised?  Is the concept so alien to you that you can't see people giving their life on just the possibility that it might have an impact?

[themikefest]

I don't think this is the case.  First off it was never said in any way that anyone can do it.  As for the actual dialogue it goes like this:

 I will stick with my comment

[Goodmongo]

 I will stick with my comment

 Based on your belief or is there supporting evidence?  Serious question.  If just your belief then there is nothing else to consider.  but if there is actual evidence that may support your position then that would be interesting to know.

[themikefest]

Which is what many soldiers all through history have done.  So why be surprised?  Is the concept so alien to you that you can't see people giving their life on just the possibility that it might have an impact?

Would you? There's no reason to sacrifice yourself if there might be another way. Obviously at that moment Shepard has no choice if picking control or synthesis, but with destroy.....

 

When walking towards the tube shooting at it knowing there's a good chance you might die, would you? Why can't firing at the tube from a distance give the same result? 

[Vanilka]

Now I have this idea in my head.

 

Normandy flies in to evac, final snuggle time with your LI.

 

Harbinger(Wrex style voice): Shepaaard.

Shep: Yeah, yeah, was is it. We are having a moment here.

Harb: You are not Miranda, stop showing your butt to me. And you have an appointment upstairs. We are on a tight schedule here.

Shep: Yeah yeah ok, I am coming. BTW why didn´t you shoot the Normandy?

Harb: I´ve got precise instructions. Do you know how hard it is to do a precision strike with this gun so that the target is wounded, got its armor and possibly grenades blasted away and is unable to use any powers but still able to hold a handgun and walk very slowly? You can´t do that by blasting a big chunk of metal. There could be unacceptable injuries caused by flying debris.

Shep: Stop whining you big baby.

Harb: Stupid organic, even that old dude Anderson passed you in the meantime. I hope you remembered to put on your uniform underneath, this is not a nude scene.

 

Spoiler

[themikefest]

 Based on your belief or is there supporting evidence?  Serious question.  If just your belief then there is nothing else to consider.  but if there is actual evidence that may support your position then that would be interesting to know.

I believe I'm correct. No I don't have evidence. I look at it that all  is required is an organic whether its Shepard or any other character.

 

 I don't really care since I don't pick that ending. I pick destroy. 

[Goodmongo]

Would you? There's no reason to sacrifice yourself if there might be another way. Obviously at that moment Shepard has no choice if picking control or synthesis, but with destroy.....

 

When walking towards the tube shooting at it knowing there's a good chance you might die, would you? Why can't firing at the tube from a distance give the same result? 

 

I've been wounded in combat.  Would I?  Could I?  I would sure hope I could and would.  But till faced with it I just don't know.

 

Now let me post something that I wrote in another thread regarding the destroy option:

 

Now for real speculation on my part.  I think the catalyst knew exactly what would happen.  But it wanted to make it a bad choice for Shepard to make.  The catalyst knew that Shepard had to die in the other choices so said that Shepard could die here as well.  If instead the Catalyst was 100% open and honest and said:

 

The destroy option will kill only reaper based technology which means you're OK but me, the reapers, husks, EDI and the Geth (since they have reaper technology) will all die but nothing else.  Now we'll be dead and gone but we also know that sometime in the future (maybe soon maybe thousands of years from now) organics will fight synthetics and become extinct.  But for now you and all your organic friends will do just fine.

 

What do you think players will pick?  I would say sorry EDI, sorry Geth but this is the best for the rest.

 

Now could Bioware really present the option that way?

[GreyLycanTrope]

I don't think this is the case.  First off it was never said in any way that anyone can do it.  As for the actual dialogue it goes like this:

 

Shep:   Why couldn't you do it any sooner?

Kid: We have tried a similar solution in the past.  But it has always failed.  

Shep:  Why?

Kid: Because the organics were not ready.  It is not something that can be forced.

Kid:  You are ready.  And you may choose it.

Shep: I don't know.

Kid:  Why not?  Synthetics are already part of you.  Can you imagine your life without them?

 

So it is pretty clear that the catalyst was speaking directly to and about Shepard.  It wasn't referring to any organic.  Shepard may chose.  Shepard has synthetics as part of him/her. 

Quarians also have cybernetic implants, quite extensive ones if the geth are helping them restart their immune systems. Though in actuality I suspect that line has more to do with the Catalyst referring to galactic society at large not being able to function as it did without it's current level of technology.

 

The thing that is unclear is "organics being ready now".  Since it was tried in the past others jumped into the beam and it didn't work.  Why?  Maybe the person doing the jumping was the key or maybe the whole organic race has to be ready.  But I doubt if it's the later.  You can never get all organics to be ready.  there will always be organics that don't agree.  So it appears it's not that the race is ready but instead a specific person with their individual energy of "who and what you are" is what is required.

No body actually managed to finish the crucible before actually, the reason most others had failed was because the Citadel was taken at the start of the invasion each Reaper cycle. The current one managed to largely maintain it's leadership and organize enough of a military response to make it happen thanks to the events of ME1, though that was largely a combined effort on part of humanity and the Normandy crew. There's not really much that makes Shepard special outside of them being the protagonist and constantly being told they unique for one vague reason or another. Because they're a leader, because they have the protean cypher etc.

 

So Shepard is the first organic to make it that far.  That means the other tries were them throwing the plant or other organics into the beam and it didn't work.  All of this supports that it requires Shepard's unique individual energy to make it work.

Shepard is the first organic to pass out on what turned out to be a very convenient elevator. Boy would their face have been red if they just left the room after opening the Citadel arms and docking the crucible.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Which is what many soldiers all through history have done.  So why be surprised?  Is the concept so alien to you that you can't see people giving their life on just the possibility that it might have an impact?

Yeah but usually after a commander or some other authority from their side told them to do so, or a situation in which they made the assessment and choice entirely of their own volition. Again as opposed to random hologram they just met telling them to. I cannot stress this aspect enough, random hologram we just met. I think a bit of skepticism is in order before anyone walks face first into an explosion. Maybe shoot it from a distance.

[God]

Guess I'm the lucky one. No Purple Heart's, no desires for one.

 

That said, I fight for the good of the society, or, more specifically, for the growth (and power) I want to see for it.

 

It's hardly patriotic. 

[Goodmongo]

Yeah but usually after a commander or some other authority from their side told them to do so, or a situation in which they made the assessment and choice entirely of their own volition. Again as opposed to random hologram they just met telling them to. I cannot stress this aspect enough, random hologram we just met. I think a bit of skepticism is in order before anyone walks face first into an explosion. Maybe shoot it from a distance.

 

I'm not doing it because the catalyst says so.  In fact I make the choice.  What he/it says is just more input for me to decide.  No one says you MUST pick any of them.  And I did shoot it from a distance.  Nothing happens.  So I shot it from close and BAM.

 

I've said that I really want to pick synthesis but I usually don't because I don't think I have the right or power to force all creation to have their DNA changed.  To be honest I can pick all three choices.  What I don't do is pick to do nothing but that did happen my very first time with the extended cut because I shot at the hologram.  LOL  Bioware had a big surprise waiting for all of us on that one.

[Batarian Master Race]

Mongo, I've noticed you've been saying "We know that organics and synthetics will always come into conflict" a lot.

 

How do you know this?

 

My Shepard at least has always pushed those around him toward a path of acceptance and understanding. He removed Garrus's anti-Quarian prejudice, helped Pressley accept aliens as people, made peace between the Geth and the Quarians... who's to say Shepard isn't the lynchpin that will finally stop the conflicts between all AI and all organics?

 

True, there will always be conflicts, but that's just as true as between organics and organics. Hell, someone could have said that Krogan and the Council will always be in conflict, until Wrex came along and pulled their heads out of their muscled asses. Or that Quarians and the Geth will always be in conflict, until Shepard made Gerrel stop being a little bosh'tet. Or that Rachni and the Galaxy will always be in conflict until Shepard arrived.

 

Just because something has happened a lot in the past, doesn't mean it will happen in the future. Synthesis always failed in the past, so by your logic it should fail even when Shepard was there.