73 réponses à ce sujet

[K_A_Rnage]

So most of us have played a fair bit of Nightmare by now.
I've finished 25 runs and probably wiped even more.
There are definitely some stand out class combos.
I can clear with no Barrier on my Reaver if there's a Lego with a full Taunt build. Give her Static Cage to play in and it's pure KARnage.
Duelist LOVES PotA! Particularly with Ambush detonating on Sleep, hitting multiple mobs and triggering Audacity, numbers light up the screen. She can destroy every mob in there (we're talking 100k+ dmg in under 3 seconds)
I've heard of 3 Archers cleaning up but neither I or my friends have the new bow.
I'm dying to try 3 Avvars using Freeze detonation and Lady's Wrath to just melt mobs but they are weak to Terror Demons so haven't bothered.
None of us have uber promotes so we all play at lvl 20
Virtuoso is rarely seen due to frame rate on FC.
Katari, Templar, Necro and all the Rouges bar Izzy just don't seem to cut the mustard but maybe I'm missing something.
What might that be?

[Thadrial]

I don't much like avvar in nightmare because the damage is just not enough and even with multiple freezers theres a lot of enemies you can't freeze. Better off with a reaver and the katari can do it well enough if he carries warhorn as well. The only problem with archer is if you have no barrier and no taunter then you need fallback plan and evade just to stay alive.

[Grizzly]

Are you saying Virtuoso is bad on FC because the frame rate makes it tough to play him effectively, or do you mean it's just annoying for the team? Didn't they fix the frame rate problem?

 

For now I'm inclined to run the Virtuoso on nightmare, but mostly because he was my only success in the handful of nightmare attempts I've made so far.

[coldflame]

AW

AW

AW

AW... ok, maybe Elementalist or Keeper here

[K_A_Rnage]

Are you saying Virtuoso is bad on FC because the frame rate makes it tough to play him effectively, or do you mean it's just annoying for the team? Didn't they fix the frame rate problem?

For now I'm inclined to run the Virtuoso on nightmare, but mostly because he was my only success in the handful of nightmare attempts I've made so far.

Not saying it's bad at all, just that due to FR issues (haven't checked if it's fixed) my friends have been scared off it and I generally suck at it.

[Cirvante]

4 x Archer

 

4 x Reaver

 

Maybe add in a Keeper, Virtuoso, Elementalist or Legionnaire. But mainly it's dps or gtfo.

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

4 Elementalist

 

/job done

[K_A_Rnage]

4 Elementalist

/job done

Would you all run Chaotic Firemines?

[K_A_Rnage]

AW
AW
AW
AW... ok, maybe Elementalist or Keeper here

Would you all run melee or mix it up with a few Sleep combo guys?

[K_A_Rnage]

4 x Archer

4 x Reaver

Maybe add in a Keeper, Virtuoso, Elementalist or Legionnaire. But mainly it's dps or gtfo.

4 x Long Shot?

[jvaz]

Dps and CC actually wins over survivability in NM with good people who know how to play.

[Grizzly]

Not saying it's bad at all, just that due to FR issues (haven't checked if it's fixed) my friends have been scared off it and I generally suck at it.

 

I mean, it certainly was no walk in the park. But it seemed like if you just stick to a barrier > attack speed > heal pattern (or whatever pattern you're floating) the nightmare Virtuoso kinda plays itself -- until your fingers start to go numb.

 

But dangit I wanna know if my team is bleeding from the ears due to frame rate. *sigh* am I gonna have to put on my headset and actually converse with people?

[Cirvante]

4 x Long Shot?

 

Pretty much, yeah. Explosive Shots against clustered targets, shield mooks, Knights and DDs and Leaping Shots against close targets. Four Archers can synergize incredibly well with each other, since they can all stand in one spot and Long Shot the enemies coming towards them.

 

And they can easily kill the dragon either on the roof with a catapult or the moment it lands for the second time. If you have problems with survivability, you can use three Archers and have a Keeper put up a Disruption Field to hide behind.

[Wavebend]

AW

AW

AW

AW... ok, maybe Elementalist or Keeper here

 

You remind me of myself, before I learned a few things..

[K_A_Rnage]

Pretty much, yeah. Explosive Shots against clustered targets, shield mooks, Knights and DDs and Leaping Shots against close targets. Four Archers can synergize incredibly well with each other, since they can all stand in one spot and Long Shot the enemies coming towards them.

And they can easily kill the dragon either on the roof with a catapult or the moment it lands for the second time. If you have problems with survivability, you can use three Archers and have a Keeper put up a Disruption Field to hide behind.

Need the Hakkon Bow or will Heartstrings do?

[yarpenthemad21]

What is wrong with virtuoso on FC aside from the fact it is a very boring kit?

Reaver is great, but ppl tend to use bad builds on her. Elementalist always good, still rage wave (4 zone fc) and billion of rage demon can be annoying.
Keeper as always good, virtuoso as always boring.
With rogue types depends. Highly geared and promoted players can use duelist, archer maybe but in general I would take rogue only for opening rogue treasure.
High promotion and best gear can make a templar great, because wombo jombo can kill on NM. Lego great as spawn "camper" or taunt machine. Either way another way of support.
Katari - bad, like no point. Damage meh, support meh, too many big targets to get knockdown useful.
Avvar...either great stats or barrier. Damage is too low for constant killing, so you can't just rely on HoK anymore. Defense buffs help with damage but even short time without them and you will be dead. Also those knockdown from shield guys or terror demons. Avvar get stagger from anything really.

Main problem, from my perspective isn't a support, because many mentioned kits can do it very well. Barrier, static cage, taunts, setting panic, sleep etc makes run easier and better, still main problem stays. You need freaking dps. And for now reaver is the number one here with anything else on at most "ify" position (like rogue types).
This is limiting in my opinion. Hard to make efficient party without reaver.

[Cirvante]

Need the Hakkon Bow or will Heartstrings do?

 

Hakkon Bow does way more damage, but the Heartstring Bow gives you more survivability due to HoK/HoH. You should be able to pull it off with Heartstrings, it'll just take longer.

[Cirvante]

You need freaking dps. And for now reaver is the number one here with anything else on at most "ify" position (like rogue types).

 

I'd argue that Archers can keep up with the Reaver dps-wise, especially when they have Pincushion, which scales amazingly well with Leaping Shot and Explosive Shot into groups of enemies. It helps when you have the Hakkon Bow of course (but the same goes for the greatsword on the Reaver).

[Wavebend]

What is wrong with virtuoso on FC aside from the fact it is a very boring kit?

Reaver is great, but ppl tend to use bad builds on her. Elementalist always good, still rage wave (4 zone fc) and billion of rage demon can be annoying.
Keeper as always good, virtuoso as always boring.
With rogue types depends. Highly geared and promoted players can use duelist, archer maybe but in general I would take rogue only for opening rogue treasure.
High promotion and best gear can make a templar great, because wombo jombo can kill on NM. Lego great as spawn "camper" or taunt machine. Either way another way of support.
Katari - bad, like no point. Damage meh, support meh, too many big targets to get knockdown useful.
Avvar...either great stats or barrier. Damage is too low for constant killing, so you can't just rely on HoK anymore. Defense buffs help with damage but even short time without them and you will be dead. Also those knockdown from shield guys or terror demons. Avvar get stagger from anything really.

Main problem, from my perspective isn't a support, because many mentioned kits can do it very well. Barrier, static cage, taunts, setting panic, sleep etc makes run easier and better, still main problem stays. You need freaking dps. And for now reaver is the number one here with anything else on at most "ify" position (like rogue types).
This is limiting in my opinion. Hard to make efficient party without reaver.

 

More DPS can also be achieved without using DPS-oriented classes. E.g. Horn of Valor, Static cage, combo set ups (ice mine -> stone fist), nightmare combo spam with the virtuoso, etc. Of course for Nightmare the fastest way is probably with a DPS-oriented setup because the AI is quite limited in abilities

[K_A_Rnage]

More DPS can also be achieved without using DPS-oriented classes. E.g. Horn of Valor, Static cage, combo set ups (ice mine -> stone fist), nightmare combo spam with the virtuoso, etc. Of course for Nightmare the fastest way is probably with a DPS-oriented setup because the AI is quite limited in abilities

How is the Nightmare combo achieved with Virtouso? No problems pulling it off with AW

[Wavebend]

How is the Nightmare combo achieved with Virtouso? No problems pulling it off with AW

 

Unlike the AW he can't do it entirely by himself. The most efficient way involves at least one keeper and one AW/ele, where you set up a Static cage, cast SF or PotA to trigger sleep then spam PC as a virtuoso. You can also trigger nightmare if allies shock enemies via upgraded MoTR (weaken) and PC.

 

I don't like the Virtuoso as much as I used to since he lacks a ton of utility in comparison to other support classes (yes my avatar is from the virtuoso's tree )

[yarpenthemad21]

I'd argue that Archers can keep up with the Reaver dps-wise, especially when they have Pincushion, which scales amazingly well with Leaping Shot and Explosive Shot into groups of enemies. It helps when you have the Hakkon Bow of course (but the same goes for the greatsword on the Reaver).

Probably true, but to use archers in that way you need to change tactic from "normal" to stand at doors and pew pew with bow.
In general archer want a clear way to shoot. In close LoS situation he can just spam 2 skills. Other classes want LoS situation to fire up CC and deal with group at once.
In my opinion those two are 2 different worlds really and when you take 1 archer instead of reaver it won't be that great.

Also damage wise reaver can just smack those 4-5k swipes all day, it is her autattack pretty much. Archer got Pincushion but reaver has fervor...

 

More DPS can also be achieved without using DPS-oriented classes. E.g. Horn of Valor, Static cage, combo set ups (ice mine -> stone fist), nightmare combo spam with the virtuoso, etc. Of course for Nightmare the fastest way is probably with a DPS-oriented setup because the AI is quite limited in abilities

you can't be serious with stone fist? Like first problem is to hit what you wanted with this projectile. In NM cluster it isn't that simple.
Second is lame damage. Lame like lame, we all know it.
Third is single target detonations.
Horn of Valor has pretty much any reaver out there using Hakkon 2h sword. Static cage works, it's true, you can detonate it but with what really? Not many spammable detonators and aoe at the same time.

As for combination. It's cool but in general you want setup which works always.
Focusing on nightmare virtuoso combo makes this useless on pride demons and pretty much rage demons (when have barriers). Zone 4 would be hard. The same problem with despair demons demons.
On RT you have massive amount of knights and horrors. Setting horrors on sleep isn't that "easy".
On venatori you would get some spellbinders and they can have whatever type of damage, blocking some tactic.

So in general a party which relies is some way of combo of some sort would get screwed (more or less depends on many aspects but still). Reaver is more resistance to it and works pretty much always as soon as you give reaver some basic support.

[februarywar]

last day we steamrolled over NM as a keeper, ele and 2 reavers. easiest run of my entire life.

 

the dragon bugged tho and we didn't get a credit for killing it.

[Cirvante]

Probably true, but to use archers in that way you need to change tactic from "normal" to stand at doors and pew pew with bow.
In general archer want a clear way to shoot. In close LoS situation he can just spam 2 skills. Other classes want LoS situation to fire up CC and deal with group at once.
In my opinion those two are 2 different worlds really and when you take 1 archer instead of reaver it won't be that great.

Also damage wise reaver can just smack those 4-5k swipes all day, it is her autattack pretty much. Archer got Pincushion but reaver has fervor...

 

Agreed. Only one Archer will have trouble, because he hogs all the aggro and his only skill that can one-shot enemies is Leaping Shot with stacked-up Pincushion.

 

He also works much better on FC than on the old maps. This isn't too bad since everyone is still farming Hakkon weapons, but once you start playing NM on the old maps the Reaver will outperform him.

 

Still, with high enough crit chance, OK and Pincushion he can have incredible damage output. With enough Leaping Shots stacking Pincushion, I have gone up to 2.5k per hit. The follow-up attack is also devastating when you can make use of the Hakkon Bow's triple shot. And the knockdown in between Leaping Shot spam adds some much needed crowd control.

[konfeta]

All this talk about farming Hakkon weapons, are there actually playable public games on NM now?