187 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

With Shepard and the human prejudices, I felt more of a struggle being human. Of course, that was more early on, it almost felt the opposite later.

The less this new protagonist is handled like they handled Shepard, the better. 

[Vortex13]

MP doesn't count. There is no story or roleplaying in that. People complain about the race not having enough of an impact, yet recommend MP when the race you are has absolutely no impact. 

 

 

 

I would have to disagree on that point. 

 

Sure there is no story impact, but the MP kits were very unique in relation to Shepard. They didn't have dialogue or LI's but a Krogan 'felt' like a Krogan, the Juggernaut suited it's depiction in the lore. Etc.

 

I would image that if these species were SP options we wouldn't have gotten to see their unique play styles at work. Playing as a Qunair Warrior is no different than playing as a Human or Dwarf Warrior in DA:I, but playing as a Krogan Soldier vs. playing as a Geth Juggernaut is very different in ME 3.

[Battlebloodmage]

I would kill Liara to be able to play as a Turian.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would have to disagree on that point. 

 

Sure there is no story impact, but the MP kits were very unique in relation to Shepard. They didn't have dialogue or LI's but a Krogan 'felt' like a Krogan, the Juggernaut suited it's depiction in the lore. Etc.

 

I would image that if these species were SP options we wouldn't have gotten to see their unique play styles at work. Playing as a Qunair Warrior is no different than playing as a Human or Dwarf Warrior in DA:I, but playing as a Krogan Soldier vs. playing as a Geth Juggernaut is very different in ME 3.

Well, I want story impact. Strange to hear from someone playing a role-playing game, I know.

[Quarian Master Race]

MP doesn't count. There is no story or roleplaying in that. People complain about the race not having enough of an impact, yet recommend MP when the race you are has absolutely no impact. 

The species you play as in MP has an impact as far as gameplay (the primary differentiatior in multiplayer). Different passives, different defense ratings, abilites, movement speeds ect, not to mention dialouge. I mostly reccomend that because multiplayer is the only way to include such an option without gutting the narrative or homogenizing all the alien cultures.

If the only difference between me playing a quarian and a human is that in the former I have a 30 minute prologue faffing about the Fleet or on Pilgrimage, people occasionally say racist things to me or I get falsely arrested for credit chit theft at some point with all other decision and responses being basically the same, than I'm not really all that interested. They simply can't make it a completely different experience with the resources allocated to one project without other areas suffering. Especially not in this series, where the aliens have their own distinctive voices/ speech patterns and thus all require their own lines (an inordinate amount of voicework).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The species you play as in MP has an impact as far as gameplay (the primary differentiatior in multiplayer). Different passives, different defense ratings, abilites, movement speeds ect, not to mention dialouge. I mostly reccomend that because multiplayer is the only way to include such an option without gutting the narrative or homogenizing all the alien cultures.

If the only difference between me playing a quarian and a human is that in the former I have a 30 minute prologue faffing about the Fleet or on Pilgrimage, people occasionally say racist things to me or I get falsely arrested for credit chit theft at some point with all other decision and responses being basically the same, than I'm not really all that interested. They simply can't make it a completely different experience with the resources allocated to one project without other areas suffering. Especially not in this series, where the aliens have their own distinctive voices/ speech patterns and thus all require their own lines.

Notice I never said gameplay. I said story and roleplaying. The race who play in MP has no impact on these things. I want those things. Thus MP is not an option and people who recommend it while complaining about lack of impact on story and roleplaying are hypocrites.

Then just have races that aren't hard to do those things as the options. I mentioned earlier how they could avoid a lot of that by choosing the races that use the same animation skeleton as humans. All the companions in the Shjepard Trilogy, regardless of race, did this yet I never saw anyone complain. As for culture, all the cultures are homogenized now for the most part since the culture is now being in Andromeda. The only differences are small and can be handled in dialogue. And the voices can just use filters. Like "You chose Quarian, the Quarian voice filter will now be activated on your character" in the code.

[Vortex13]

Notice I never said gameplay. I said story and roleplaying. The race who play in MP has no impact on these things. I want those things. Thus MP is not an option and people who recommend it while complaining about lack of impact on story and roleplaying are hypocrites.

Then just have races that aren't hard to do those things as the options. I mentioned earlier how they could avoid a lot of that by choosing the races that use the same animation skeleton as humans. All the companions in the Shjepard Trilogy, regardless of race, did this yet I never saw anyone complain. As for culture, all the cultures are homogenized now for the most part since the culture is now being in Andromeda. The only differences are small and can be handled in dialogue. And the voices can just use filters. Like "You chose Quarian, the Quarian voice filter will now be activated on your character" in the code.

 

 

I think its a little more nuanced than that though.

 

I would love to play as the Rachni, or the Salarians in SP with deep roleplaying opportunities, but the chances of that happening with any degree of satisfaction is pretty close to nil, so I turn to MP. 

 

MP is an area of the game that I know BioWare can give me a playable Rachni kit, and for it to actually be a Rachni instead of a human in a "space bug" suit. It's not perfect, but its the only way to see that species as a playable character in a game not solely devoted to playing as one.

[Legendary Hero]

How many choices are in ME3MP? I am unable to even look at it due to freezing issues when being online, which is why I ask.

I've played as a Race I didn't even know existed online, I forgot what it was but it could Teleport and it was kind of Kasumi style sneaking class.

[KaiserShep]

I'm pretty sure the N7 Fury (faux Kasumi) is human.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think its a little more nuanced than that though.

 

I would love to play as the Rachni, or the Salarians in SP with deep roleplaying opportunities, but the chances of that happening with any degree of satisfaction is pretty close to nil, so I turn to MP. 

 

MP is an area of the game that I know BioWare can give me a playable Rachni kit, and for it to actually be a Rachni instead of a human in a "space bug" suit. It's not perfect, but its the only way to see that species as a playable character in a game not solely devoted to playing as one.

Using the Rachni is not a good example, since even with race selection in SP that would never happen. Salarian could be handled to a satisfying degree though. 

 

Good for you. I get no satisfaction from MP when it comes to playing as other races. Playing a Krogan feels no different than playing a human acting like a krogan in a krogan suit. Also, considering that Rachni weren't available in MP I don't think it is as simple as you are suggesting. 

[Quarian Master Race]

 As for culture, all the cultures are homogenized now for the most part since the culture is now being in Andromeda.The only differences are small and can be handled in dialogue. And the voices can just use filters. Like "You chose Quarian, the Quarian voice filter will now be activated on your character" in the code.

Not going to respond to the rest since all you are doing is insulting my opinion and using ad homenim, but why are you assuming that the Andromeda species are a monoculture? We don't know a thing about this game. Further, occupying the same galaxy with an instantaneous travel relay network before didn't render krogan, quarian, salarians, turians, humans etc into the same culture, so why should that change just because they've moved? They aren't really "races", they're species. This isn't Dragon Age where elves are pointy eared humans and dwarves are short humans. Even for the bipedal humanoids, there are fundamental biological, physiological and psychosocial differences between the species that colour how they perceive and thus react to the world around them. If they just made every alien a half-arsed reskinned modern Western culture human, the setting would suffer greatly. Now, if you're fine with "playable species" that only have cosmetic differences than you are entitled to that opinion, but I am going to disagree with it because I think it would do a great disservice to the unique universe that ME has managed to build up.

It is not that simple at all. A quarian would require different phrases, idioms, inclusions of Khelish etc. if they weren't just being lazy with it and using the same lines as for a human.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I can't tell if I'm impressed or disappointed that three pages in no one has mentioned the sexually euphemistic title.

[Quarian Master Race]

I can't tell if I'm impressed or disappointed that three pages in no one has mentioned the sexually euphemistic title.

 

 

There are plenty of alien playthings in the previous games.

^^

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not going to respond to the rest since all you are doing is insulting my opinion and using ad homenim, but why are you assuming that the Andromeda species are a monoculture? We don't know a thing about this game. Further, occupying the same galaxy with an instantaneous travel relay network before didn't render krogan, quarian, salarians, turians, humans etc into the same culture, so why should that change just because they've moved? They aren't really "races", they're species. This isn't Dragon Age where elves are pointy eared humans and dwarves are short humans. Even for the bipedal humanoids, there are fundamental biological, physiological and psychosocial differences between the species that colour how they perceive and thus react to the world around them. If they just made every alien a half-arsed reskinned modern Western culture human, the setting would suffer greatly. Now, if you're fine with "playable species" that only have cosmetic differences than you are entitled to that opinion, but I am going to disagree with it because I think it would do a great disservice to the unique universe that ME has managed to build up.

It is not that simple at all. A quarian would require different phrases, idioms, inclusions of Khelish etc. if they weren't just being lazy with it and using the same lines as for a human.

No, I didn't.

In our galaxy, all those cultures developed separately, only meeting later in time after discovering the Mass Relays. In this galaxy, we all traveled together and are living in the same group in the same place. Homogenization of culture will occur, it is inevitable. There will still be differences, but the culture will predominately be the same. Mass Effect has them refer to themselves as races, so that's what I'm going to use. And why do you assume the only difference would be cosmetic? If enough effort was put into it, Bioware would be able to pull it off. They've done it before. 

[HuldraDancer]

I can't tell if I'm impressed or disappointed that three pages in no one has mentioned the sexually euphemistic title.

 

Well I feel embarrassed I just now noticed the typo. Going to fix it now.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Well I feel embarrassed I just now noticed the typo. Going to fix it now.

 

 

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

I know that it looks like a beer bottle that I'm drinking, but really, it's the distilled essence of unintended sexual puns. That's what sustains me.

[HuldraDancer]

Sorry but just changed it before I saw your post actually Just trying to put safety measures up and trying to make sure that people don't mistake it for a troll thread. I am sorry though drunk baby.

[Vortex13]

Using the Rachni is not a good example, since even with race selection in SP that would never happen. Salarian could be handled to a satisfying degree though. 

 

Good for you. I get no satisfaction from MP when it comes to playing as other races. Playing a Krogan feels no different than playing a human acting like a krogan in a krogan suit. Also, considering that Rachni weren't available in MP I don't think it is as simple as you are suggesting. 

 

Well the Rachni aren't the best example granted, but they do provide a perfect (if extreme) example of what I and other fans would be looking for which a racial option for SP. As a species the Rachni are one of most 'alien' ones in the setting, and playing as one in a SP environment would require far more than a simple model swap. A Rachni PC wouldn't approach a combat situation or social interaction the same way a human or humanoid alien would. A Rachni PC wouldn't have the same frame of reference that other more human-like species would. Etc.

 

Now, as I have said, the Rachni are an extreme example of the various differences present in the numerous aliens in the setting, but even more 'normalized' species like the Salarians and Quarians have to account for the same things that I listed above, if not in the most overt ways.

 

 

As far as a MP Rachni kit is concerned, BioWare surprised me with the unique character DLC in DAMP; a completely new gameplay mechanic, new animations, etc. So I am fairly confident that they can do something along those lines to add in a Brood Warrior class to ME:A MP.  

 

 

No, I didn't.

In our galaxy, all those cultures developed separately, only meeting later in time after discovering the Mass Relays. In this galaxy, we all traveled together and are living in the same group in the same place. Homogenization of culture will occur, it is inevitable. There will still be differences, but the culture will predominately be the same. Mass Effect has them refer to themselves as races, so that's what I'm going to use. And why do you assume the only difference would be cosmetic? If enough effort was put into it, Bioware would be able to pull it off. They've done it before. 

 

 

 

Yes, BioWare has done that before, but the game that best showcased that: Dragon Age: Origins used a silent protagonist. Without having to devote the majority of the word budget to the PC, they were able to add a sizable amount of reactivity to the player based on their race and background. The only problem is that I don't foresee BioWare, or the majority of the fans, moving back to that format, and based on the releases thus far, I don't know how else the same level depth and interactivity can be achieved.

[The Night Haunter]

While I would love the ability to play as other/multiple races, in the ME universe it is a stretch for a main game. The story thus far has always been tied to race in a way that makes it impossible to have a non-human protagonist. In DA the races are all spread out over everywhere, dwarves and elves live in human cities, and so they become interchangeable(ish). Asari don't live on earth (in any significant numbers), neither do Turians live on Tuchanka. It is very difficult to come up with a story that is race neutral, or even allows for a protagonist of different races.

 

I think eventually, if MEA does well, we will get a spin-off game that features an alien protagonist. Maybe a fixed race protagonist (ie it has to be a Turian), or maybe we'll get a choice. But in reality I doubt we'll be seeing the ability to play as a non-human outside of MP in the ME universe any time soon. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[The Night Haunter]

Yes, BioWare has done that before, but the game that best showcased that: Dragon Age: Origins used a silent protagonist. Without having to devote the majority of the word budget to the PC, they were able to add a sizable amount of reactivity to the player based on their race and background. The only problem is that I don't foresee BioWare, or the majority of the fans, moving back to that format, and based on the releases thus far, I don't know how else the same level depth and interactivity can be achieved.

Even having a silent protagonist won't help. Think about ME. The whole point of the story was Shepard was the first HUMAN Spectre. The story was humanity struggling to gain acceptance and political clout in an entrenched alien coalition.

 

As I said earlier, in DA the races are all part of the same world, but in ME the races each have their own worlds, their own cities, and their own completely separate cultures. It is incredibly difficult to come up with a plot in ME that allows for multiple races and isn't incredibly restrictive in story telling capability. Admiral Hackett wouldn't have been all chummy with a Turian Spectre in Shepard's place, and the Council wouldn't have tried to pee in your punch bowl so much had Shepard been a council race. Race is a much, much bigger factor in ME than it is in DA.

[BatarianBob]

If the series were still popular, they might risk an alien protagonist. If Andromeda surprises us all and turns out to be great, it might happen.

Right now though, they're probably desperate just to keep themselves employed, I mean keep the series alive. That mindset tends to make people risk averse.

[Vortex13]

Even having a silent protagonist won't help. Think about ME. The whole point of the story was Shepard was the first HUMAN Spectre. The story was humanity struggling to gain acceptance and political clout in an entrenched alien coalition.

 

As I said earlier, in DA the races are all part of the same world, but in ME the races each have their own worlds, their own cities, and their own completely separate cultures. It is incredibly difficult to come up with a plot in ME that allows for multiple races and isn't incredibly restrictive in story telling capability. Admiral Hackett wouldn't have been all chummy with a Turian Spectre in Shepard's place, and the Council wouldn't have tried to pee in your punch bowl so much had Shepard been a council race. Race is a much, much bigger factor in ME than it is in DA.

 

 

Very good point. 

 

 

Still, a silent protagonist would make it a heck of a lot easier to have racial re-activity than a voiced one in any case.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't see non-human protagonists ever happening in ME for two reasons;

 

Voice work; they could get away with two voice sets to cover humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari, but I don't think they can get away with that in mass effect. 

 

Animation costs; unless they limited the choices to human, asari, and drell, who're all roughly the same shape, it would be a significant drain on resources to animate everything for the range of body types and anatomies that mass effect races display.

 

So, yeah, I don't see it happening in a mass effect game, as much as I would like it to. 

 

As it stands, I'm hoping that if they ever do another single player Old Republic game they'll have the same range of playable races that are available in the MMO. That's the only way I'm seeing multiple species available in a Bioware sci fi game.

[The Night Haunter]

I don't see non-human protagonists ever happening in ME for two reasons;

 

Voice work; they could get away with two voice sets to cover humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari, but I don't think they can get away with that in mass effect. 

 

Animation costs; unless they limited the choices to human, asari, and drell, who're all roughly the same shape, it would be a significant drain on resources to animate everything for the range of body types and anatomies that mass effect races display.

 

So, yeah, I don't see it happening in a mass effect game, as much as I would like it to. 

 

As it stands, I'm hoping that if they ever do another single player Old Republic game they'll have the same range of playable races that are available in the MMO. That's the only way I'm seeing multiple species available in a Bioware sci fi game.

That's not to say we won't ever play an alien in an ME game. I can see them making a spin-off game where the protagonist is an alien. Only if MEA does well though, as that is a risky venture, people like playing as humans more than aliens (and people generally prefer playing their own gender too, which is why video games have been male protagonist heavy for the last ever). I do hope they make the jump sometime though.

[Aezint]

Not giving us the option to play as an alien is the pragmatic solution.  It may not please every fan, but it is much easier to go with than having to try and plug an option for aliens in a game that would be allegedly as story-heavy as the previous ones.  As it has been said, a majority of players will most likely stick to playing as human, so giving people options they wouldn't use is a waste of resources from a business perspective.  Giving people the option to choose a gender at all, with full-voice acting is a blessing enough.