187 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

Overcompensating hardass.... Who when encountering his own kind is 10 times less fun. i.e. Worf.

 

So uh how badly do I get beaten up if I admit I'm not sure what you are talking about? I think that's a Star Trek character but that's as far as my knowledge goes on that^^;

[Madrict]

No, I think it should stay as human only, otherwise it means a less deep/tailored experience if they need to share the writing around to accommodate various races.

 

Focus on humans and make it deep and brilliant.

 

Quality over quantity.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Mass Effect would definitely benefit from having a predefined protagonist with a predefined set background and predefined set personality. Whether that protagonist would be human or alien doesn't matter (though I'd prefer a male human).

Eww. No, it wouldn't. 

[Big Magnet]

So uh how badly do I get beaten up if I admit I'm not sure what you are talking about? I think that's a Star Trek character but that's as far as my knowledge goes on that^^;

 

Imagine a space orc, those are the klingon.

Now imagine a space orc who knows how to use toilet paper and soap, that's Worf.

[The Heretic of Time]

Eww. No, it wouldn't. 

 

That sure is a compelling rebuttal you wrote there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That sure is a compelling rebuttal you wrote there.

I don't waste time on terrible ideas. And having a RPG protagonist whose personality is predefined rather than up to the player is a terrible idea. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I don't waste time on terrible ideas. 

 

It's not a terrible idea. Writing a predefined character allows BioWare to write a better and more coherent story with a more emotionally involved protagonist who actually has some depth. There is a long list of videogame characters that are memorable and really left a mark on me, but boring blank-slate self-insert characters like Shepard aren't on that list. Geralt however, who isn't a boring blank-slate self-insert character is definitely on that list.

[Seboist]

I don't waste time on terrible ideas. And having a RPG protagonist whose personality is predefined rather than up to the player is a terrible idea. 

BW ditched any pretense of ME being RPG-like after ME1. 

[The Night Haunter]

That's for Witcher. If I want pretermined characters I play that. When I want mutable characters I play Bioware.

[The Heretic of Time]

And having a RPG protagonist whose personality is predefined rather than up to the player is a terrible idea. 

 

You clearly haven't played any JRPGs or The Witcher (a series that's better and more true to the RPG genre than anything BioWare has put out lately).

[The Night Haunter]

You clearly haven't played any JRPGs or The Witcher (a series that's better and more true to the RPG genre than anything BioWare has put out lately).

Definately wouldn't say that. The better is debatable by both sides, since in reality the two games are completely different genres. Although I was suitably impressed by Witcher 3, it was loads of fun. 

But original RPG comes form table top games (Pen and Paper) and Bioware games definately resemble that far more closely than Witcher, so the bolded is outright false.

[The Night Haunter]

It depends with Bioware. They've done both.

 

It's Elder Scrolls that depends on this even further. About the only thing that matters is you're an amnesiac prisoner (but Bioware tried this stupid **** with DAI now too).

Kinda, there is actually a lore reason for the amnesia in DAI and that only goes back to the beginning of the day. The Inq still remembers his whole life before that.

 

The last Bioware game that had a fixed character was.... that hand held sonic game?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's not a terrible idea. Writing a predefined character allows BioWare to write a better and more coherent story with a more emotionally involved protagonist who actually has some depth. There is a long list of videogame characters that are memorable and really left a mark on me, but boring blank-slate self-insert characters like Shepard aren't on that list. Geralt however, who isn't a boring blank-slate self-insert character is definitely on that list however.

In a roleplaying game, yes it is. The bread and butter of RPGs is choice, and people love to make their own characters. Otherwise developers would stop making that an option since why waste resources on something a lot of people don't like? Bioware does it, Bethesda does it, Square Enix does it, even CDPR is going to do it with Cyberpunk 2077. 

I knew you would bring up Geralt. I hate Geralt. One of the main reasons I can't stand the Witcher franchise.

lol at Shepard being a self-insert character. Bioware made so many assumptions on how the player would play them they were more predefined than self-insert.

 

Lots of games do this. 

 

I don't think it's necessarily good here, but it isn't a bad idea in itself. I think if you want a specific story, this is the route to go. If it's a sandbox with a protagonist devoid of any distinguishing background or life who randomly gets touched with "Heroic Fate", then I don't care if I'm the lovechild of a Batarian and a Volus.

If you want to tell a story without player input, it is the route to go. If you want to tell a story with player input, then it is not. 

 

You clearly haven't played any JRPGs or The Witcher (a series that's better and more true to the RPG genre than anything BioWare has put out lately).

I grew up on JRPGs. They are a different type of RPG. JRPGs is about telling a story without any player input. The RPGs Bioware tell are about telling a story where the player shapes events. The Witcher tried merging both, and it resulted in a mess where almost all your choices are retconned. 

[The Heretic of Time]

Definately wouldn't say that. The better is debatable by both sides, since in reality the two games are completely different genres. Although I was suitably impressed by Witcher 3, it was loads of fun. 

But original RPG comes form table top games (Pen and Paper) and Bioware games definately resemble that far more closely than Witcher, so the bolded is outright false.

 

How do recent BioWare games resemble tabletop games more than The Witcher aside from the dice-rolling game mechanics that are in Dragon Age?

I mean I could see your point if we're talking about Dragon Age, but Mass Effect? Mass Effect isn't even close to being a tabletop RPG, or any RPG at all. It's really just a Gears of War clone with spellcasting and faux choices.

[The Night Haunter]

By fixed character, I didn't think you meant that something that extreme. You mentioned Witcher, which has choices still. That's not far off from Hawke and Shepard. It' s a little of both ideas into one.

 

DAI is too open ended for it's own good. And it makes the world worse, from my perspective. When Orlais, Ferelden, and the Chantry can be dictated to by some bum dug out of a ditch, then I stop caring about their setting. They don't earn the right to do anything, and barely have relevance to preceding events.. and yet have more power than Napoleon and Mohammad combined.

Hawke had 3 distinct attitudes, so it had some degree of customization. Shepard had a bit more than Hawke imo (all the choices in between Renegade/Paragon dialogues had some opportunity to define him). DAO had plenty, it was Biowares best non-quite-recent effort in that department. Witcher had less than DA2 or ME. Mainly you get to decide big sweeping things (a few choices that mix into the ending) and most of the dialogue was either gruff or total jackass, there was some opportunity to move around a little, but far less than most Bioware games. Geralt was a very well defined character and you couldn't change very much of that (which is perfectly acceptable as it was a good game).

[The Night Haunter]

Well, I actually haven't played Witcher 3 (I own it.. just haven't gotten around). I've played a little of 2, but not enough. It seemed like Hawke to me, without the face customization.

Naw, Hawke has more ability to define his 'style' as you can be nice, funny, or complete and unrepentant douche-bag. Geralt is always gruff, he can be gruff nice or gruff mean, but thats mostly it. Again this isn't a detraction from Witcher 3, it is simply a different design that CDPR went with and worked very well for the Witcher trilogy.

[Seboist]

In a roleplaying game, yes it is. The bread and butter of RPGs is choice, and people love to make their own characters. Otherwise developers would stop making that an option since why waste resources on something a lot of people don't like? Bioware does it, Bethesda does it, Square Enix does it, even CDPR is going to do it with Cyberpunk 2077. 

I knew you would bring up Geralt. I hate Geralt. One of the main reasons I can't stand the Witcher franchise.

lol at Shepard being a self-insert character. Bioware made so many assumptions on how the player would play them they were more predefined than self-insert.

 

If you want to tell a story without player input, it is the route to go. If you want to tell a story with player input, then it is not. 

 

 

Of which, Mass Effect is an abysmal example of.  No matter what one does, they go down the same linear corridors, popping the same moles from chest high cover as anyone else. The only difference being, which piece of throwaway dialogue one gets detailing why the "choice" they made resulted in the same outcome, a five second alt cutscene and which fluff cameo they get(or nothing in the case of renegade numerous times). There isn't a lick of real difference between playing as a paragon vs renegade shepard, or a male vs a female.

 

Mass Effect would've been off as a straight up shootbang TPS with a simple story, set protagonist and no pretense of choice, than one with an Ed Wood-level pretentious schlock story and faux-choices that amount to diddly squat.

[The Heretic of Time]

 

If you want to tell a story without player input, it is the route to go. If you want to tell a story with player input, then it is not. 

 

Except that isn't true, because The Witcher allows a ton of player input and has better and more believable choices and consequences than any Mass Effect game despite Geralt being a pre-defined character.