168 réponses à ce sujet

[Fade9wayz]

1) I understand, and even agree in part. The Reapers were part of Shepard's story, so I wouldn't really want them to be the villains again either. Their legacy however I would love to have in the new games. 
2) It depends on how we get there, or even why we left. For all we know they left after the events of ME3 on a mission purely for reasons like exploration, scientific discovery, expansion, resources, etc.

1) The colonists are, in a way, importing their legacy into Andromeda. After all, most of their tech is based on Reaper tech. I suppose I wouldn't completely mind archeological findings showing Reaper vanguards tried to invade Andromeda but were faced with such overwhelming opposition that caused so much losses in their ranks, that they had to retreat back to the MW, and never set a pseudopode in Andromeda ever again since then. We have to remember that if they lose too many of their bethrens or get eradicated, then they completely fail at preserving life.
2) True, but then, the current civilisations haven't even explored all of the MW. And economically speaking, it doesn't make sense to go look for ressouces so far away when there are some located much closer, in our own galaxy, with sufficient manpower and pre-existing infrastructures, even if some of these infrastructures must be repaired first. Now, I suppose they could go just for exploration-purposes, à la Colombus, but with a galaxy in shambles, I find it quite unlikely that such a project would be funded when more pressing matters are waiting. And if we can easily travel back and forth, what's stopping whatever threat lies in Andromeda (and there will be one) from coming to the MW and definitely squash our civilisations.
Again I can be wrong, but for me an Ark project (just the name has its own significance) makes absolutely no sense post-RGBRefuse, especially after Refuse...

If BW was going to adress the Endings anyway, there is no point in going to another galaxy, especially one so far when there are closer ones. Canis Major is even closer to us than our own galaxy center... And it's not just RGBR you have to deal with, there's also all the previous choices like the Geth vs Quarians, Genophage, Rachni... So many variables to consider, when it's just easier to reduce the complications to the only major unavoidable ones and go from there. At least that's what I'd do if I was writing this game.

I can be wrong of course, but for me the only theory that makes truly sense meta-wise and lore-wise is to leave the MW for good a little before RGB, maybe after the Thessia mission, with no hope of ever coming back to anything or anyone we ever knew. If we ever come back to the MW, it and its civilisations will have changed so much that RGBR wouldn't matter anymore, but there needs to be a very significant amount of time to pass before that. By then, Andromeda and the MW will have probably merged together anyway.

Again, I'm not stating facts, just my own speculations inferred from the little knowlegde we have for now, most of it being meta with BW wanting a fresh and clean start for the franchise. It might be that we'll both be disappointed in some way, though honestly I'm among the ones that will be perfectly happy with the game as long as MEAMP is at least as good as ME3MP... We'll have to wait and see.

 

I know there will still be things that use the mass effect in the game, but us getting there via relativistic travel rather than using the mass effect in some way seems wrong somehow. The Mass Relays though are symbolic of the franchise, so removing them would be disappointing. It'd be like removing dragons from Dragon Age.
I don't see how that's possible without a massive infrastructure in place. A Mass Relay is a huge project. And you'd need at least two of them for them to even work.

Ah well, I have absolutely no emotional attachment to Mass Relays, they were just the big shiny thing used to go from one system to another in 5 seconds cut-scenes. I'd be much more distressed if biotic powers disappeared, to be honest.
The Protheans scientists who built the relay were just a handful and had limited ressources. One for spaceships would be admitedly bigger, but I do think the colonists could do it provided they secure the ressources necessary, which might actually be one of the game goals. And yes, building a mass relay network would take time. Never said they would have them right away.

[Dean_the_Young]

Except their were created with the purpose to "preserve all life" it would be in their interest to expand their goal to other galaxies as well.

 

To elaborate on this-

 

Their goal is preserve organic life from a synthetic singularity. And they have an unlimited mandate to do so.

 

Even if the only life they're interested in protecting is the Milky Way, the real issue is a synthetic singularity arising in other galaxies. The premise of the Reaper Cycles is the pre-emption of synthetics- but if a synthetic singularity arises in Andromedea and comes over, it's just as bad.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1) The colonists are, in a way, importing their legacy into Andromeda. After all, most of their tech is based on Reaper tech. I suppose I wouldn't completely mind archeological findings showing Reaper vanguards tried to invade Andromeda but were faced with such overwhelming opposition that caused so much losses in their ranks, that they had to retreat back to the MW, and never set a pseudopode in Andromeda ever again since then. We have to remember that if they lose too many of their bethrens or get eradicated, then they completely fail at preserving life.

You know what I mean. I mean a direct legacy. Like finding a Citadel and Mass Relay Array, planetary entries that describe oddly familiar sounding extinction events, etc. 

 

2) True, but then, the current civilisations haven't even explored all of the MW. And economically speaking, it doesn't make sense to go look for ressouces so far away when there are some located much closer, in our own galaxy, with sufficient manpower and pre-existing infrastructures, even if some of these infrastructures must be repaired first. Now, I suppose they could go just for exploration-purposes, à la Colombus, but with a galaxy in shambles, I find it quite unlikely that such a project would be funded when more pressing matters are waiting. And if we can easily travel back and forth, what's stopping whatever threat lies in Andromeda (and there will be one) from coming to the MW and definitely squash our civilisations.

We haven't explored 95% of our oceans, or 67.45% of our planet, yet there are people looking into exploring other celestial bodies for resources rather than exploring the rest of Earth for them. I wouldn't find it much of a leap that the galaxy would agree to an expedition to Andromeda if they saw the payoff as greater than the cost, and the payoff is potentially an entire galaxy untouched and full of resources. Who said travel would be easy?

 

If BW was going to adress the Endings anyway, there is no point in going to another galaxy, especially one so far when there are closer ones. Canis Major is even closer to us than our own galaxy center... And it's not just RGBR you have to deal with, there's also all the previous choices like the Geth vs Quarians, Genophage, Rachni... So many variables to consider, when it's just easier to reduce the complications to the only major unavoidable ones and go from there. At least that's what I'd do if I was writing this game.

Hey, you'll get no argument from me about their chosen destination. If we had to leave the Milky Way, I'd have preferred somewhere we actually have mapped out, like the Large Magellanic Cloud. 

As for the race choices, those are actually surprisingly easy to handle. We know that regardless of what happens on Rannoch, there are Quarian and Geth survivors who are allies. The Krogan will be around for tens of thousands of years even without the Genophage cured, especially if they are allowed to colonize more hospitable planets. The Rachni if they play a part in galactic society rather than going into isolation to sing in peace can be explained by the Salarians having a Rachni Queen egg since we know they have stuff like this, thus a new Queen can hatch and from her a colony emerge. 

 

I can be wrong of course, but for me the only theory that makes truly sense meta-wise and lore-wise is to leave the MW for good a little before RGB, maybe after the Thessia mission, with no hope of ever coming back to anything or anyone we ever knew. If we ever come back to the MW, it and its civilisations will have changed so much that RGBR wouldn't matter anymore, but there needs to be a very significant amount of time to pass before that. By then, Andromeda and the MW will have probably merged together anyway.

 

Again, I'm not stating facts, just my own speculations inferred from the little knowlegde we have for now, most of it being meta with BW wanting a fresh and clean start for the franchise. It might be that we'll both be disappointed in some way, though honestly I'm among the ones that will be perfectly happy with the game as long as MEAMP is at least as good as ME3MP... We'll have to wait and see.

Oh, I already know I'll be disappointed. As said above, Bioware has already removed part of what made Mass Effect special to me, the ability to visit actual astronomical places like stars and nebulae. I've enacted the "Always assume the worst, that way you are never disappointed." mindset now. Sad that it has to resort to that for me to be optimistic about a Bioware game. 

 

 Ah well, I have absolutely no emotional attachment to Mass Relays, they were just the big shiny thing used to go from one system to another in 5 seconds cut-scenes. I'd be much more distressed if biotic powers disappeared, to be honest.
The Protheans scientists who built the relay were just a handful and had limited ressources. One for spaceships would be admitedly bigger, but I do think the colonists could do it provided they secure the ressources necessary, which might actually be one of the game goals. And yes, building a mass relay network would take time. Never said they would have them right away.

And I would be sad for the people who love biotics if that was removed.

The entire Ilos facility worked on the Conduit. That was the entire purpose of that settlement. Thousands of workers and who knows how many resources were put into it. And ones capable of transporting objects as big as starships would be exponentially harder.

[Fade9wayz]

You know what I mean. I mean a direct legacy. Like finding a Citadel and Mass Relay Array, planetary entries that describe oddly familiar sounding extinction events, etc.

At this point we are just debating what we want or don't want. You want a legacy, I don't want any, both for mostly emotional reasons. Let's leave it at that.
 

We haven't explored 95% of our oceans, or 67.45% of our planet, yet there are people looking into exploring other celestial bodies for resources rather than exploring the rest of Earth for them. I wouldn't find it much of a leap that the galaxy would agree to an expedition to Andromeda if they saw the payoff as greater than the cost, and the payoff is potentially an entire galaxy untouched and full of resources. Who said travel would be easy?

It is not equivalent. If all the space bodies within reasonable reach were so massive or so hot that our exploring/mining equipment couldn't handle it, we'd find a way to beat our ocean's pressure first, then go look for potentially rich celestial bodies. It's no hazard we are currently looking at celestial bodies that are close or inferior to our planet in terms of pressure for possible ressource mining. Besides, the first space explorations (the moon) had more to do with national prestige than any ressource prospects and there are recent on-going projects for exploring our oceans with drones. In ME universe, ressources can be collected even from heavy-pressure planets. Collecting them would be infinitly easier, faster and safer than sending a ship to some unknown galaxy, and they need these ressources fast if they want to repair what the Reaper wars destroyed. There's no point in sending a ship away for ressources if you cannot bring them back to be used in a reasonable amount of time, which means some safe, relatively easy cost-effective mean to travel (easier than some conventional relativistic near-light speed travel that will take 5000000 years anyway).
 

As for the race choices, those are actually surprisingly easy to handle. We know that regardless of what happens on Rannoch, there are Quarian and Geth survivors who are allies. The Krogan will be around for tens of thousands of years even without the Genophage cured, especially if they are allowed to colonize more hospitable planets. The Rachni if they play a part in galactic society rather than going into isolation to sing in peace can be explained by the Salarians having a Rachni Queen egg since we know they have stuff like this, thus a new Queen can hatch and from her a colony emerge.

The few Quarians surviving outside of the Flotilla aren't enough to ensure the species survival, if you chose Geth. There's a reason Tali commits suicide. We could of course have some of the Quarian survivors amongst the colonists, but they would be the last representants of their species (unless, space magic! of course). If you chose Destroy, no more Geth. At all. Thus stressing once again the need for the Ark to depart prior to the RGBR ending. I'm not too worried about Krogan, they will adapt, and I'd love for the Rachni to survive as well, but I'm not keeping my hopes up concerning them.
 
(Snip-Gif) What can I say? I kind of like the irony of escaping to a galaxy set on a crashing course with our own.
 

Oh, I already know I'll be disappointed. As said above, Bioware has already removed part of what made Mass Effect special to me, the ability to visit actual astronomical places like stars and nebulae. I've enacted the "Always assume the worst, that way you are never disappointed." mindset now. Sad that it has to resort to that for me to be optimistic about a Bioware game.

I just try not to have too many expectations, good or bad. In the meantime it's relatively entertaining to speculate on how they are going to pull this off. 
 

And I would be sad for the people who love biotics if that was removed.
The entire Ilos facility worked on the Conduit. That was the entire purpose of that settlement. Thousands of workers and who knows how many resources were put into it. And ones capable of transporting objects as big as starships would be exponentially harder.

My bad, my memory was faulty. I would not dismiss the possibility for the colonists to eventually build a mass relay network though. As of yet we have no idea how many the colonists are, and ressources can be aquired in Andromeda.

[Chealec]

Again, the Reapers having been there does not mean they are there. 

 

We've been to the moon. Does that mean there are people on the Moon? 

 

Does make it boring though - if the Reapers had been to the Andromeda galaxy and had harvested all advanced organic life there then let us assume that they last did that last between the previous cycle in the Milky Way and the point at which the Mass Effect series starts.

 

This means that every civilisation in Andromeda is younger than those in the Milky Way. The "Ark" might just roll up like Apophis from Stargate and have all the primitive locals oooohing and aaaaaahing over these gods that suddenly appeared... or we'd be like the aliens from Independence Day.

 

Somewhat cuts down the possibilities for the setting, story or alien civilisations if the Reapers harvested in the Andromeda galaxy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Does make it boring though - if the Reapers had been to the Andromeda galaxy and had harvested all advanced organic life there then let us assume that they last did that last between the previous cycle in the Milky Way and the point at which the Mass Effect series starts.

 

This means that every civilisation in Andromeda is younger than those in the Milky Way. The "Ark" might just roll up like Apophis from Stargate and have all the primitive locals oooohing and aaaaaahing over these gods that suddenly appeared... or we'd be like the aliens from Independence Day.

 

Somewhat cuts down the possibilities for the setting, story or alien civilisations if the Reapers harvested in the Andromeda galaxy.

Not necessarily. They could be like the Protheans and have had more of their 50,000 year cycle to develop and advance to a point where they are on par of even surpass us technologically. Our cycle has only had spacefarers for 3,000 years. It's not hard to think the Andromidians had more. 

[Heimdall]

Not necessarily. They could be like the Protheans and have had more of their 50,000 year cycle to develop and advance to a point where they are on par of even surpass us technologically. Our cycle has only had spacefarers for 3,000 years. It's not hard to think the Andromidians had more. 

But if the Reapers were harvesting them them they would have done so before letting it get to that point, no?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Do you have proof? Just asking since you are so certain. 

 

I say the flying spaghetti monster exists. Prove that it doesn't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But if the Reapers were harvesting them them they would have done so before letting it get to that point, no?

The Reapers aren't harvesting or wiping out the Yahg, and they are only a few millennia away from space travel at max. 

[Metalfros]

Everyone knows Reapers don't actually have to rest right? And who says all the reapers where in mister Milky Way galaxy? I strongly suggest some Reapers could have survived the canon ending of ME3, or that there are more Reapers in other Galaxies. Anyway, as long as I don't have a glimpse of them in ME Adromeda, I am fine.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The reapers were not wiping out the yahg at that point because they weren't a threat at that point. They were not a space faring race, but they were technologically equivalent to 20th Century Earth. They were on the reaping block for a destroyer. The reapers couldn't allow them to have that much of a head start.

[Metalfros]

The reapers were not wiping out the yahg at that point because they weren't a threat at that point. They were not a space faring race, but they were technologically equivalent to 20th Century Earth. They were on the reaping block for a destroyer. The reapers couldn't allow them to have that much of a head start.

 

Also read somewhere that 'people in Mass Effect' were speculating that the Yahg could be like the dominating race of the next cycle.

[The Night Haunter]

The Reapers aren't harvesting or wiping out the Yahg, and they are only a few millennia away from space travel at max. 

Well, I don't really believe the Reapers are on a set 50k year clock. They come in whenever space society reaches a certain point. That is why they tried to use the Rachni a few hundred years ago (idk about that timeline, was it 1k years ago?), which failed.

 

So if the Yahg do get space ready in the next 3k years then maybe the Reapers would have returned in just 10k years instead of 50k. So they might'a done the same to any Andromedians, had they been harvesting them as well.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Also read somewhere that 'people in Mass Effect' were speculating that the Yahg could be like the dominating race of the next cycle.

 

Well, you know... Speculations everywhere.

[The Night Haunter]

Also read somewhere that 'people in Mass Effect' were speculating that the Yahg could be like the dominating race of the next cycle.

That probably actually would have happened. They would have found the Citadel first, just like the Asari, and they probably would thus have become the dominant race, either through diplomacy like the Asari (which seems unlikely given what we know of their society), or militarily like the Protheans (much more likely).

[Sidney]

To elaborate on this-
 
Their goal is preserve organic life from a synthetic singularity. And they have an unlimited mandate to do so.
 
Even if the only life they're interested in protecting is the Milky Way, the real issue is a synthetic singularity arising in other galaxies. The premise of the Reaper Cycles is the pre-emption of synthetics- but if a synthetic singularity arises in Andromedea and comes over, it's just as bad.

We don't know that their mission was as expansive as universe-wide as opposed to galactic. The catalyst says nothing definitive either way. The Levianthan built them to solve their specific problems and not necessarily all problems. To use a grossly simple metaphor your build a calculator to solve math problems. If you ask it what it does it would say it is there to solve math problems but while that is true it is, in all likihood, incapable of solving ALL math problems so the self evaluation of it's mission is both inaccurate and incomplete.

Alternatively, the harvest is built around cycles tied to organic tek development. In the MW the cycle starts at X and runs roughly every 50000 years from X. If life got a later start or was a bit "dumber" in Andromeda and their cycle started at X +5000 instead of X then the reapers may well be lurking in dark space when MEA starts but if the reapers are 5000 years away then they do not matter a whit to any story in MEA.

[Nethershadow]

You're ignoring the whole point: Bioware wants MEA to be separate from ME3, if you have Reapers anywhere or anytime in Andromeda that provides a clear link to ME3. I believe they want to avoid that as much as possible. Sure Reapers could be in Andromeda presently, could have visited there 50k years ago, but it is unnecessary to the plot (most likely, if Bioware really does want to separate MEA), and just brings some baggage into a pristine new galaxy. 

Right but what Bioware wants to do for a game to meet their current agenda's is not the same thing as the question posed from in the games world.

 

The thread talks about logical conclusions / theories based off what has already has come, and it most definitely makes sense to me that the Reapers would have gone to other galaxies if they could. And considering the next installment in the games IP is a new galaxy with humans leading the way only strongly suggests that the Reapers had the ability to visit other galaxies if we humans are getting there.

 

Based on how the Reapers agenda and MO, I would think it's safe to say they have been to other galaxies, let alone deciding to hide outside of them, and 50k years is a lot of time for them to clean up multiples of them and still have time for a cat nap before ours came back around.

 

Now if Bioware wants to distance from the trilogy story line than ok, though i would want ties to that trilogy myself, but it would be an artificial reason that wouldn't make sense from inside the story.

[Paulomedi]

The Reapers are essentially an anti-virus that's a bit overzealous.

 

Sure they might delete every file on your harddrive except the operating system thinking that it's a virus, but it doesn't go and scan your external drives in between scans of your main drive.

 

Reapers = Norton Antivirus

 

Mac Walters, what have you done?

[Dean_the_Young]

We don't know that their mission was as expansive as universe-wide as opposed to galactic.

 

 

The Leviathans explicitly call it an unlimited mandate.

 

 

 

 

The catalyst says nothing definitive either way.

 

 

And, thus, the less irrational outcome should be assumed unless otherwise indicated.

 

 

The Levianthan built them to solve their specific problems and not necessarily all problems.

 

 

Synthetic singularity surpassing organics was the problem the Catalyst was created to solve.

 

 

To use a grossly simple metaphor your build a calculator to solve math problems. If you ask it what it does it would say it is there to solve math problems but while that is true it is, in all likihood, incapable of solving ALL math problems so the self evaluation of it's mission is both inaccurate and incomplete.

 

 

You're right about this, though- it is a grossly simple metaphor.

 

Downright irrelevant, even.

 

Alternatively, the harvest is built around cycles tied to organic tek development. In the MW the cycle starts at X and runs roughly every 50000 years from X. If life got a later start or was a bit "dumber" in Andromeda and their cycle started at X +5000 instead of X then the reapers may well be lurking in dark space when MEA starts but if the reapers are 5000 years away then they do not matter a whit to any story in MEA.

 

I certainly agree that the Andromeda could be in a 'previously culled but free from Reapers' state, but try not to argue both ends of an argument simultaneously.

[Dean_the_Young]

That probably actually would have happened. They would have found the Citadel first, just like the Asari, and they probably would thus have become the dominant race, either through diplomacy like the Asari (which seems unlikely given what we know of their society), or militarily like the Protheans (much more likely).

 

There are planet scans of the Reapers obliterating other (even pre-) spaceflight civilizations for being too close to... whatever.

 

It's just as likely that the Yahg get oblitterated for being 'too likely to be alerted by current cycle.'

 

Right but what Bioware wants to do for a game to meet their current agenda's is not the same thing as the question posed from in the games world.

 

The thread talks about logical conclusions / theories based off what has already has come, and it most definitely makes sense to me that the Reapers would have gone to other galaxies if they could. And considering the next installment in the games IP is a new galaxy with humans leading the way only strongly suggests that the Reapers had the ability to visit other galaxies if we humans are getting there.

 

Based on how the Reapers agenda and MO, I would think it's safe to say they have been to other galaxies, let alone deciding to hide outside of them, and 50k years is a lot of time for them to clean up multiples of them and still have time for a cat nap before ours came back around.

 

Now if Bioware wants to distance from the trilogy story line than ok, though i would want ties to that trilogy myself, but it would be an artificial reason that wouldn't make sense from inside the story.

 

Reapers visiting other galaxies would also offer a means to a few of the common complaints of the 'let's move the setting' issue: Mass Relays and even a Citadel could exist in Andromedea, waiting to be discovered. We could get the 'ancient cycles' vibe, in which 'prothean' civilizations left artifacts, which the current cycle has one attitude on even as the Humans and Milky Wayers are like 'we totally know what this is about.'

 

Heck, you could even (re)approach Reaper tech or even the Reapers in various ways. I'd rather they didn't- but they could.

[The Night Haunter]

There are planet scans of the Reapers obliterating other (even pre-) spaceflight civilizations for being too close to... whatever.

 

It's just as likely that the Yahg get oblitterated for being 'too likely to be alerted by current cycle.'

?? I don't recall anywhere seeing the Reaper's attacking pre-Mass Effect species. That's why the Asari survived the Prothean's cull. They had already formed societies and religions by that time (so roughly equal to early AD humans in terms of sociological progress, unknown in terms of technological though). The transition from having societies to space faring is very, very short. 2 Million+ years spent going from new species to having societies. 10k years from having societies to flying in space going pew pew.

[Dantriges]

Hackett mentions that the Yahg homeworld was left alone by the Reapers.

 

A spacefaring villain may only scourge one galaxy or they get their membership in the villains club revoked. 

 

Or they met the Andromeda Ascendant and fled in terror. If it was because of Sorbo´s acting or the bombs capable of blowing up stars in a casual manner, no one can say. And the Abyss already called dibs.

[N7Jamaican]

I love ME, but lets not wreck Andromeda with the reaper threat. I'd like for something new.

[Sidney]

The Leviathans explicitly call it an unlimited mandate.
 
 

 

 
And, thus, the less irrational outcome should be assumed unless otherwise indicated.
 

 
Synthetic singularity surpassing organics was the problem the Catalyst was created to solve.

 

You're right about this, though- it is a grossly simple metaphor.
 
Downright irrelevant, even.
 

I certainly agree that the Andromeda could be in a 'previously culled but free from Reapers' state, but try not to argue both ends of an argument simultaneously.

Why not. Either condition can be true and make the whole reaper issue 100% meaningless as in who cares.

Your argument seems to be " I have inferred what the Leviathans and Catalyst meant" and extrapolated galactic to universal. Levianthan's only comment is to discuss galactic level domination. The intelligence is built to preserve the thrall races of the Levianthan. Those races are all MW. They have a mandate with a limitless cost according to Levianthan but a limitless scope is not mentioned. Why would the Levianthan care about "all" organic life? The intelligence is merely designed to make sure that tribute can flow from non-dead thrall species. This isn't altruism. Unless the is something where they specify a mission beyond the galaxy there is no reason for the reapers via the intelligence have been programmed to go there because they are tools to solve a problem. You don't send your roomba on a mission to clean the neighborhood...just your house. The Levianthan are cleaning their house.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The only reason we're in Andromeda in the first place is because of the stupid Reaper plot and the Mass Effect 3 ending. Those things forced our writers to retroactively create ARKCON to make an ark as the contingency plan to save the remnants of our galactic civilization against a force they knew they could not defeat. This is the writers' way of weaseling out of setting canons and avoiding p*ssing off the fan base. The sooner people realize this the happier we'll be.

 

Let's not get consumed over whether or not the reapers harvested Andromeda because setting up a satellite operation would have made more sense than a roaming cleaning service. I never want to see a reaper or a starbrat again. I really don't think anyone else does either. Well, maybe there are a few, but they can play ME3 again.

 

So let's leave the Cthulhu monsters and Red, Green and Blue behind in the Milky Way and say bye bye to the trilogy.