168 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthSliver]

The only reason we're in Andromeda in the first place is because of the stupid Reaper plot and the Mass Effect 3 ending. Those things forced our writers to retroactively create ARKCON to make an ark as the contingency plan to save the remnants of our galactic civilization against a force they knew they could not defeat. This is the writers' way of weaseling out of setting canons and avoiding p*ssing off the fan base. The sooner people realize this the happier we'll be.

 

Let's not get consumed over whether or not the reapers harvested Andromeda because setting up a satellite operation would have made more sense than a roaming cleaning service. I never want to see a reaper or a starbrat again. I really don't think anyone else does either. Well, maybe there are a few, but they can play ME3 again.

 

So let's leave the Cthulhu monsters and Red, Green and Blue behind in the Milky Way and say bye bye to the trilogy.

Sorry ME3 ending ruined the ME Trilogy or should I say Starbrat lol.  But I am open for them to clean up the mess they made from the endings, rather them clean it up than leave it to soil in the carpet of stars. I want meaning to play the Shepard story again. 

[JoltDealer]

I posed this question in another thread, but could the Reapers actually detect sentient life?  50,000 years seems to be an arbitrary length of time and they relied on their Keepers and Sovereign to kind of keep an eye on things.  Plus, most of their annihilation strategy seemed dependent on the fact that the current galactic civilization used their technology.  Simply by accessing the Citadel, they had access to all sorts of useful information such as populated planets, military fleets, and even defense systems.

 

Javik was born long after the Citadel fell, during the ongoing fight between the Protheans and the Reapers.  It took several decades for the Protheans to be wiped out and, even then, they missed Ilos entirely because it wasn't listed on any records.  The time gap between the Reapers' appearance and the completion of their goal, seems to imply that they had to hunt them down.  Why would they need to do so if they could detect sentient life?

 

Unlike in the Milky Way, the Reapers would've had no idea how many sentient races there were in Andromeda, much less where they were located.  This, in my opinion, is likely the best explanation as to why they never set their sights on the Andromeda Galaxy.

[Fade9wayz]

I posed this question in another thread, but could the Reapers actually detect sentient life?  50,000 years seems to be an arbitrary length of time and they relied on their Keepers and Sovereign to kind of keep an eye on things.  Plus, most of their annihilation strategy seemed dependent on the fact that the current galactic civilization used their technology.  Simply by accessing the Citadel, they had access to all sorts of useful information such as populated planets, military fleets, and even defense systems.
 
Javik was born long after the Citadel fell, during the ongoing fight between the Protheans and the Reapers.  It took several decades for the Protheans to be wiped out and, even then, they missed Ilos entirely because it wasn't listed on any records.  The time gap between the Reapers' appearance and the completion of their goal, seems to imply that they had to hunt them down.  Why would they need to do so if they could detect sentient life?
 
Unlike in the Milky Way, the Reapers would've had no idea how many sentient races there were in Andromeda, much less where they were located.  This, in my opinion, is likely the best explanation as to why they never set their sights on the Andromeda Galaxy.

Not to mention that in the MW, Reapers control the parameters of technological advancement of the organics, which wouldn't be the case in any other galaxy. Obviously, reaping a technology advanced galaxy demands a certain critical mass of Reapers, since they are too dumb to send teleguided warships in their stead for space fights (the fact that they engage in combat and endanger themselves is in clear contradiction of their mandate of preserving life as they define it, is only one of the many stupid details about them). Reaping Andromeda, which is bigger and contains more stars than the MW, means that they would need a certain significant number, if not all of them, to migrate there, at the cost of being eradicated, if the resident dominating species happens to be more advanced and powerful than them.

Mind you, they certainly have the technological means to travel to Andromeda. Assuming their programming doesn't constrain them to the MW, they might have indeed sent vanguards like Sovereign to monitor the situation, although if their admitedly more efficient drive cores suffers from the same discharge limitation than ours, which seems to be the case (Sovereign landing on Eden Prime seemed to be discharging while doing so), their vanguards would need to make their first travel in relativistic near-light speed. So huge time-gap far exceeding their 50000 years cycle. Unless convenient wormhole, of course, but we have no evidence they have such tech since they still rely on mass relays themselves and had to travel with conventional FTL for their invasion. At this point, any number of things can happen that would make the Reapers decide invading Andromeda is actually detrimental to their mandate.

1) Building intergalactic Mass Relays isn't a viable option, either because they don't have the tech or the energy required is so great it would deplete the eezo ressources of both galaxies so fast that it would be counter-productive in the end. 5 000 000 years to go to Andromeda and back, , plus the harvest time, is too much of a time-gap, the idea of harvesting Andromeda is abandonned.

2) The resident dominant species is so military advanced and powerful they squash the vanguards like insignificant flies. The eventual survivors come back to tell the tale after 5 000 000 years, or there aren't any survivors. The enterprise is deemed too dangerous and time-consuming by the rest of the Reapers, and is aborted.

So while it isn't impossible for them to have been there, it doesn't mean they were able to invade it or even deem it judicious and in accordance to their mandate.

 

It is as easy to find reasons for Reapers to not be in neighbouring galaxies as it is to find reasons for them to be. I just hope BW really does want a clean slate and won't try to ressucitate this broken camel. I'd rather not have to even smell the corpse, if possible.

[Sartoz]

                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 

Should have, could have, maybe have... all in a few centuries.... RUBBISH!

 

The concept itself of Reapers destroyimg organic life in the galaxy is ludicrous. Arguing that the Reapers can jump from the MW to Andromeda to wipe out organics over there is also ludicrous. I mean, why stop there? What about the next galaxy, which is not so near? And the next? And the next?  By the time they finish off the local group of galaxies (54 of them so far), theres is always the next Super Cluster of galaxies like the Virgo Cluster composed of over 250 large galaxies and 2,000 smaller galaxies.

 

The Milky Way has anywhere from 100-400 billion stars, depending on the model you choose. Between Andromeda and MW, you are looking at anywhere between 200-800 billion stars. Do you have any idea about the magnitude of these numbers and the distances between these two, let alone the distances between Super Clusters?

 

Destroy organics in a few centuries then nap in a few centuries,.... I say gain RUBBISH!

[Il Divo]

I posed this question in another thread, but could the Reapers actually detect sentient life?  50,000 years seems to be an arbitrary length of time and they relied on their Keepers and Sovereign to kind of keep an eye on things.  Plus, most of their annihilation strategy seemed dependent on the fact that the current galactic civilization used their technology.  Simply by accessing the Citadel, they had access to all sorts of useful information such as populated planets, military fleets, and even defense systems.

 

Javik was born long after the Citadel fell, during the ongoing fight between the Protheans and the Reapers.  It took several decades for the Protheans to be wiped out and, even then, they missed Ilos entirely because it wasn't listed on any records.  The time gap between the Reapers' appearance and the completion of their goal, seems to imply that they had to hunt them down.  Why would they need to do so if they could detect sentient life?

 

Unlike in the Milky Way, the Reapers would've had no idea how many sentient races there were in Andromeda, much less where they were located.  This, in my opinion, is likely the best explanation as to why they never set their sights on the Andromeda Galaxy.

 

I think that's revealed as the big limiting factor of the Reapers' plans: Citadel Records play a huge part in how they go about determining what systems to cull. It does leave more open uninhabited planets as a more viable option however. 

[Chealec]

The Reapers aren't harvesting or wiping out the Yahg, and they are only a few millennia away from space travel at max. 

 

And that's one of the reasons I don't think the Reapers are an AI.

 

The only good thing about these Reapers in MEA threads for me is that they've made me think a little more about the actual plot in ME... and the more I've thought about it the more convinced I am that the Reapers are neither intelligent nor self-aware no matter how they're portrayed... they're basically Siri++.

 

 

First off, they appear every 50000 years. That, to me, tends to imply they're simply following a for (or while) loop - they're not reacting to how the civilisations of the organic species are actually evolving; in essence, if Year % 50000 == 0 then wake up and start harvesting. In that timeframe it's quite possible they'd wake up to find several planetary systems are nothing more than a grey goo of buckyballs already.

 

Secondly they're incapable of altering their core algorithm. If Shepard manages to make peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and the Geth are helping rebuild Rannoch, then he's proved that there's is a possibility for peaceful co-existence between synthetic and organic life - sure, it might not last but there is hope for peaceful co-existence. The Reapers don't recognise this ("Hope is irrelevant." to quote Harbinger), it doesn't change their core directive to harvest all advanced organic civilisations (and presumably destroy or induct the synthetic ones) - they are essentially unable to adapt to new circumstances.

 

Next their programming has a specific termination point. If an organic civilisation (or civilisations) manages to build the Crucible and dock it with the Citadel then a representative of that civilisation is offered the choice to destroy the Reapers, control them or somehow rewrite the DNA of every organic and synthetic species into a new hybrid form. At this point the Reapers have no sense of self-preservation; their programming has reached it's final completion point and they hand over to that organic representative. Only if that representative fails to choose one of the options presented does the Reapers harvest routine begin anew. As per the second point, the choices offered to the organic representative are immutable, anything else is beyond their programming scope - they cannot, for instance, adapt to offer a different choice if peaceful co-existence exists between organic and synthetic lifeforms.

 

Theoretically it's quite possible there may have been happy organic/synthetic civilisations pottering about peacefully in the dim distant past (I doubt the Geth/Quarian accord would have been utterly unique)... why didn't they survive? Were they harvested because, according to Reaper programming, those civilisations were impossible?

 

Finally, on a minor note, they blindly follow their programming. The Leviathan failed to include an exclusion routine to prevent themselves being harvested. Were it possible to reason with the space monsters they'd created it's possible that Leviathan could have explained the intended role of the Reapers - to prevent the subservient races from inadvertently creating their own synthetic space monsters that might endanger not only themselves but Leviathan and all other organic life as well. However the Reapers cannot be reasoned with - they only operate within their programming, attempting to reason with them is as pointless as getting angry at Windows when it crashes.

 

 

Therefore the Reapers aren't AI.

 

Intelligent synthetic life could have been created in the Andromeda galaxy and gone to destroy all organic life there but if that galaxy wasn't within the scope of the Reapers limited programming they'd have done nothing about it. They can't react, they can't think... they merely do a passable impression of it.

[Chealec]

Of course, as an alternative theory... the end of the storyline was rushed leaving some massive plot holes, a Deus ex Machina was thrown in for good measure and the power of the Reapers AI is limited by the game's programming and the processing power of the XBox 360 running the game...

 

 

 

 

 

... but that would just be silly!

[Nethershadow]

... blah *headbutt* blah, I AM KROGAN!!!

I thought was a great post btw, and overall that is how it very much felt to me as well.

 

but..

 

I have a hard time seeing the Reapers being non AI, as for their size, complexity and abilities would be un-manageable without. I would hazard a guess that they are hardcoded via hardware from changing core principles or acting against them like a firewall today, as to prevent a software re-write or glitch. So they would come across like a dumb switch compared to a smart switch, but that's because they are shackled. I just blows my mind that the Leviathans could create such bio-mechanical terrors and forget to hardcode thier exclusion into it. Or a reason maybe they didn't hardcode themselves as an exclusion at the time was because they felt there was always the possibility they could go down the path they were trying to prevent, ensuring fairness to all. Lastly, which I think the most unlikely for such an advanced species is if someone sabotaged their creations, via another species at the time or a traitor in the midst.

 

As for why not going to other galaxies, they have shown the ability to travel outside of the galaxy, and travel around the galaxy, and if your species is at a point that you have such methods, I can't see them limiting their ideology to just their galaxy. Leviathans beliefs encoded into the Reapers to be enforced is a religion of sorts, an ideology that you would not be constrained to just their system, just like one core facet of religion is to spread to everyone and everywhere. When your talking about the crazy number of possible species planets (which is far far far less than the number of stars out there) your not going to care about boundaries of a galaxy.

 

I don't want the story in Andromeda to be about the Reapers, but I would like the connection that they were there at one point in it's past, as this also would explain how the humans are able to get there in the first place, as well I would have preferred them to stick to the MW and just move us forward in the storyline to adjust for all the damage they did, so we would have a direct connection to the trilogy but the Reaper chapter is finished.

[DarthSliver]

I thought was a great post btw, and overall that is how it very much felt to me as well.

 

but..

 

I have a hard time seeing the Reapers being non AI, as for their size, complexity and abilities would be un-manageable without. I would hazard a guess that they are hardcoded via hardware from changing core principles or acting against them like a firewall today, as to prevent a software re-write or glitch. So they would come across like a dumb switch compared to a smart switch, but that's because they are shackled. I just blows my mind that the Leviathans could create such bio-mechanical terrors and forget to hardcode thier exclusion into it. Or a reason maybe they didn't hardcode themselves as an exclusion at the time was because they felt there was always the possibility they could go down the path they were trying to prevent, ensuring fairness to all. Lastly, which I think the most unlikely for such an advanced species is if someone sabotaged their creations, via another species at the time or a traitor in the midst.

 

As for why not going to other galaxies, they have shown the ability to travel outside of the galaxy, and travel around the galaxy, and if your species is at a point that you have such methods, I can't see them limiting their ideology to just their galaxy. Leviathans beliefs encoded into the Reapers to be enforced is a religion of sorts, an ideology that you would not be constrained to just their system, just like one core facet of religion is to spread to everyone and everywhere. When your talking about the crazy number of possible species planets (which is far far far less than the number of stars out there) your not going to care about boundaries of a galaxy.

 

I don't want the story in Andromeda to be about the Reapers, but I would like the connection that they were there at one point in it's past, as this also would explain how the humans are able to get there in the first place, as well I would have preferred them to stick to the MW and just move us forward in the storyline to adjust for all the damage they did, so we would have a direct connection to the trilogy but the Reaper chapter is finished.

 

I would like to think that some group against the Leviathan Empire went and put a virus in the Catalyst that caused it to do what we had to stop in ME Trilogy. The cycles started by a racial group against the Leviathan Empire lol. 

 

I do believe the Reapers visited Andromeda but the venture started to become more costly than it was worth so they ultimately had to leave it behind. So they could keep control of the one Galaxy they had control over. 

[Dantriges]

The Milky Way has anywhere from 100-400 billion stars, depending on the model you choose. Between Andromeda and MW, you are looking at anywhere between 200-800 billion stars. Do you have any idea about the magnitude of these numbers and the distances between these two, let alone the distances between Super Clusters?

 

Considering that quite a few people think that the Reapers are bad at cleanup because there are a few Reaper corpses floating around or overlooked something, I guess people don´t.

[Nethershadow]

I love ME, but lets not wreck Andromeda with the reaper threat. I'd like for something new.

@ Many others that think Andromeda is clear and free.

 

What you ask is impossible as your playing in the Mass Effect IP.

 

If you want something new then you would literally need to play a different game.

 

What happened in the MW and the Reapers will always have an effect on Andromeda one way or another. The game doesn't and probably won't focus on that but it would still technically affect it.

 

How could the MW humans and whoever else they bring forget about the Reapers, let alone not be concerned and start preparing for them to possibly follow? No group in exodus from a massive threat will think they are out of the woods and pretend its no longer a non issue. They if they are still N7 Marines and Earth gov, the choices of the MW would have a direct impact on them at some point. The thing is, the game probably won't touch on that element to much if at all.

[Former_Fiend]

I will say that one of the reasons I'm hoping there isn't a pre-existing Reaper presence in Andromeda is because to me, part of the appeal of Andromeda is taking a look at how life may have evolved without the Reaper's interference. Part of the point of the orig trig was life in the Milky Way evolved along predictable, repeating patterns because of the Catalyst's attempts at control and efficiency. In a Reaper-free Andromeda, we'd get to see life without those restrictions. 

 

I think it would be a nice chance for Bioware to flex their creativity in that regard.

[DarthSliver]

I will say that one of the reasons I'm hoping there isn't a pre-existing Reaper presence in Andromeda is because to me, part of the appeal of Andromeda is taking a look at how life may have evolved without the Reaper's interference. Part of the point of the orig trig was life in the Milky Way evolved along predictable, repeating patterns because of the Catalyst's attempts at control and efficiency. In a Reaper-free Andromeda, we'd get to see life without those restrictions. 

 

I think it would be a nice chance for Bioware to flex their creativity in that regard.

 

Well I don't want Reaper presences in it either just a show they attempted to create their cycle on Andromeda but failed and thats why they only were in the Milky Way because they could control the unknown factors in the Milky Way Galaxy sorta thing lol. 

[Han Shot First]

Maybe the Reapers are the reason the Remant are a remnant. 

 

Of course we probably won't know until the game is released. I doubt anything at all will be said about the Reapers pre-release, even if they were doing their thing in Andromeda.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We asked whether there were the series’ signature mass relays in the new galaxy—after all, how else would players cross the millions of light years between the Milky Way and Andromeda? "I don’t think we can get into that," said Flynn.

 

Why couldn't they just say no if the Mass Relays aren't in Andromeda?

[Sully13]

Yall are usein them thinkin muscles too much.

[Kabooooom]

I suppose if the remnant were so advanced the Reapers actually didn't even pose a threat then they mightn't bother with them, but at that point why the heck didn't the remnant come to the Milky Way? If they can beat the Reapers then they should have established a multi-galaxy empire / federation.

You are falling into the classic sci-fi track that ruined Star Trek plots a thousand times over. Alien species are...guess what? Alien. With alien motives. And alien agendas. And alien morals. And alien goals.

Why wouldn't hyperadvanced race create an intergalactic empire if they COULD? Because they didn't want to.

Take the Geth, as an example of a good alien motive before ME3 ruined them. They didn't want to conquer anything. They wanted to build a Dyson Sphere and upload their consciousness.

Similarly, a technologically super advanced organic species may be FAR more interested in synthetic transcendence and immortality than conquering the galaxy.

And once you've seen every star in a galaxy, you might as well have seen every star in the universe. Realistically, in real life, there are probably innumerable Earth-like worlds, innumerable worlds with life not-as-we-know it, innumerable star systems with dead worlds that have interesting chemistry, and innumerably interesting cosmic phenomena. But not an infinitude of such phenomena. In a given galaxy, a vast number of such worlds likely exist. In the universe? You might as well stop bothering with trying to explore them all, because it wont happen.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

The reapers never visited Andromeda because Andromeda didn't exist in the previous games.

 

Hold on, I'm serious. Every single Mass Effect game only had a set few hub worlds that everyone always talked about, exclusively.

 

ME1 Feros and Noveria existed, noone ever heard of Horizons, Omega or Illium etc. Volus merchant asks if we are going to the Colonies (Feros and Noveria)

 

ME2 Feros and Noveria? never mentioned, no longer exist to any NPC. Only Omega and Illium ever mentioned.Home planets of different races maybe mentioned but never visitable

 

ME3 Feros, Noveria, Horizon, Omega and Illium are gone, ceased to exist, Ex planets. Well, ok, fine, Omega gets resurrected in a DLC.

 

Not one mention of Andromeda in any of them, therefore, Reapers only focused in Milky Way, because, for them, that's all that existed.

 

I'm all about the metagaming

[Fade9wayz]

The reapers never visited Andromeda because Andromeda didn't exist in the previous games.
 
Hold on, I'm serious. Every single Mass Effect game only had a set few hub worlds that everyone always talked about, exclusively.
 
ME1 Feros and Noveria existed, noone ever heard of Horizons, Omega or Illium etc. Volus merchant asks if we are going to the Colonies (Feros and Noveria)
 
ME2 Feros and Noveria? never mentioned, no longer exist to any NPC. Only Omega and Illium ever mentioned.Home planets of different races maybe mentioned but never visitable
 
ME3 Feros, Noveria, Horizon, Omega and Illium are gone, ceased to exist, Ex planets. Well, ok, fine, Omega gets resurrected in a DLC.
 
Not one mention of Andromeda in any of them, therefore, Reapers only focused in Milky Way, because, for them, that's all that existed.
 
I'm all about the metagaming

Err, you're contradicting yourself. That something is or not in a game doesn't mean it can't come up in another game of the same franchise. It doesn't really disappear anyway, as you yoursef evidenced it with Omega station. No mention of them in Andromeda in the first ME series isn't proof of them never being there. Besides, what is registered in lore should be taken into account while metagaming.

I'm all about logical arguments.
 

We asked whether there were the series’ signature mass relays in the new galaxy—after all, how else would players cross the millions of light years between the Milky Way and Andromeda? "I don’t think we can get into that," said Flynn.
 
Why couldn't they just say no if the Mass Relays aren't in Andromeda?

Again, it isn't evidence of anything, except that the devs are under strict legal obligation to not reveal anything about the game yet. I'm only going with what we have so far, and it's a spaceship having to use classic FTL to travel from one system to another, no mass relay in sight. I can't exactly affirm there won't be mass relays in MEA yet, but even if there are, it doesn't mean they will be of Reaper origin. Again, colonists might want to build some mass relay network at some point. Mass relays in Andromeda doesn't automatically infer Reapers at any point of time in Andromeda

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Err, you're contradicting yourself. That something is or not in a game doesn't mean it can't come up in another game of the same franchise. It doesn't really disappear anyway, as you yoursef evidenced it with Omega station. No mention of them in Andromeda in the first ME series isn't proof of them never being there. Besides, what is registered in lore should be taken into account while metagaming.

I'm all about logical arguments.

 

You may or may not be taking my post way to seriously.

[Fade9wayz]

You may or may not be taking my post way to seriously.

I was suspecting, but I did feel like answering anyway. I do enjoy a bit of sarcasm here and there though, so feel free to continue 

[SpaceLobster]

ME2 Feros and Noveria? never mentioned, no longer exist to any NPC. Only Omega and Illium ever mentioned.Home planets of different races maybe mentioned but never visitable

Feros is kind of mentioned, Shiala (or a human replacement) will be seen on Illium. Noveria is not mentioned directly but the fact that Gianna Parasini is still around and you get a message from the Rachni Queen mean that it didn't just vanish.

 

 

ME3 Feros, Noveria, Horizon, Omega and Illium are gone, ceased to exist, Ex planets. Well, ok, fine, Omega gets resurrected in a DLC.

Illium is said to be attacked by the Reapers, in an newsreport, Noveria is kind of mentioned (Rachni) and you can get a message in your email about the Feros colonists fighting in the war. 

 

If you just ment to say they weren't visitable, well then you are absolutely right.

[Vazgen]

To OP - who said they didn't?

[Sartoz]

Snip

 

Next their programming has a specific termination point. If an organic civilisation (or civilisations) manages to build the Crucible and dock it with the Citadel then a representative of that civilisation is offered the choice to destroy the Reapers,

 

Snip 

 

                                                                          <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

I believe the Catalyst (ie: Star Child) makes the offer because the Catalyst's 50k cycle solution was proven wrong by Shep's reaching the Citadel.

 

A interesting point is that The Citadel+Crucible is now located near the Earth. Setting off the Crucible would destroy the Citadel and Catalyst and the Earth. The weapon itself is suppoed to be "..immensily powerful of uninmaniginable destruction..", according to Dr. T'Soni. I can't wrap my mind around what exactly it would do to destroy the Reapers, "located all over the galaxy". Nevertheless, without the Catalyst to control them would the Reapers:

 

1. stop and go dormant?

2. Continue with their harvesting as per their last order?

3. Never re-awaken after #2 is completed?

4. The Crucible Just destroys the Reapers + Relays?

 

All of these questions just confirms, to me, that Casey Hudson's ending was a hurried solution (with no real clarity on how it would play out)  in order to meet a game launch deadline.

[von uber]

Er we visit noveria in me3.