56 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexoduen]

Varric shaved his chest?

 

... seriously, these screenshots are not pretty, kinda like the texture clipping that is my Qunari

[BombSight]

Ive loved this world so much, the best comrades, but I would gladly give you my money for a better choice of casual attire in Skyhold. Cant help but cringe when I see that lame beige under wear thing.......soul crushing. I mean sheesh even let us wear the custome formal attire, I could do that.

[midnight tea]

This actually makes me wonder even more. How come developers at CDPR can do a better job with less pay than the ones at Bioware? You would've thought that more money means better quality right? Guess it is not the case for Bioware.

 

Polish person here... To answer your question - because we're known to work the longest in entire Europe, yet not get much from it. Don't think this will last for long though. We already have serious immigration problem - young people are migrating from Poland in search of jobs, because our job market and pay SUCK. 

 

And occupations like art/graphic design/game dev (I know something about it, being an artist) are seriously unappreciated here, meaning we get even less money for job well done. This is seriously frustrating, you know? People earn more money washing dishes in Germany or Great Britain then me getting carpal tunnel while producing high quality graphics all day long.

 

Another thing is: the Witcher is as much a business as it is a passion project - and I don't just mean it in a sense that it's a passion project for the company, but a matter of national pride. CDPR and TW simply has a lot to prove as a local game dev, so a lot is done to support the company in various ways.

 

See, we even had our PRIME MINISTER involved in marketing for the game. With that much investment and expectations put into this game, there's no wonder that CDPR did (well, had to) churn out something great.

[line_genrou]

Who cares? TW3 is still better.

[midnight tea]

Who cares? TW3 is still better.

 

Merely your opinion.

 

Personally I find both games/franchises enjoyable - though I have to tip my hat to Bioware for developing DAI while being seriously hampered by old-gen systems (something CDPR openly refused to do, saying that developing TW3 for old-gen is simply impossible: http://www.gamespot....s/1100-6417274/), yet they managed to create an amazing-looking game that is still being actively and incessantly compared to fully next-gen title which The Witcher 3 is.

 

That, my dear, is quite a feat.

[line_genrou]

You mean the mess that was the release for old-gen consoles? Almost everyone complained about how the game turned out on old-gen.

[midnight tea]

You mean the mess that was the release for old-gen consoles? Almost everyone complained about how the game turned out on old-gen.

 

You realize that the entire game, graphic- and gameplay-wise - no matter what platform it's played on - had to be scaled down to performance capabilities of PS3 and Xbox 360?

 

It's not just a matter of creating a port for old-gen. Everything during development was impacted by this. If Witcher 3 was developed for 5 platforms as well, we'd see a very different end product - they said it themselves. Just read the article I've posted a link to.

[Orvar83]

You realize that the entire game, graphic- and gameplay-wise - no matter what platform it's played on - had to be scaled down to performance capabilities of PS3 and Xbox 360?

 

It's not just a matter of creating a port for old-gen. Everything during development was impacted by this. If Witcher 3 was developed for 5 platforms as well, we'd see a very different end product - they said it themselves. Just read the article I've posted a link to.

 Yes everything was impacted cause of old gen hardware, from the visuals, to the scale of the world, to the AI, yet one would argue that the compromise was made to have the game run properly on both last gen and current gen rihgt?....but, well it doesn't, on old gen the game barely works, it stutters, sound lags, textures and shaders pop in out of no where 3 seconds before a cutscene is about to end (yes, END, not at the middle of it at the END of it), characters freeze while in combat the game freezes and crashes it not even on par with 2010 open world games....which means there was actually no point compromising in the first place. Let's face it, it's been a while since Bioware has done a game that actually had the polished quality of other cross gen titles. As for the whole Wticher thing can't say, I haven't played it yet, i love the books though. Ultimately even though i love the lore and wolrd of thedas, and the character development and story that has made DA a relevant rpg franchise, i have to agree with the idea that Bioware simply does not care for quality control, or customer support, we are only relevant while our money is in our pockets, as soon as it gets into theirs we are dust under a carpet.

[midnight tea]

 Yes everything was impacted cause of old gen hardware, from the visuals, to the scale of the world, to the AI, yet one would argue that the compromise was made to have the game run properly on both last gen and current gen rihgt?....but, well it doesn't, on old gen the game barely works, it stutters, sound lags, textures and shaders pop in out of no where 3 seconds before a cutscene is about to end (yes, END, not at the middle of it at the END of it), characters freeze while in combat the game freezes and crashes it not even on par with 2010 open world games....which means there was actually no point compromising in the first place.

 

The reason why the game stutters and runs the way it does because the hardware has already been pushed to its limit - and yet its limit is still far below limit of current gen and PCs. There were articles upon articles, as well as tweets and comments from devs when they explained why some things couldn't be done or implemented simply because their implementation wouldn't just make the old gens stutter or lag, but simply crash and burn.

That's also the reason why the eventually dropped the support for old-gens for DLCs - we know at least one reason why, and according to Darrah, old-gens wouldn't be able to run things they're planning, which includes increased creature number on screen.

 

As for decision behind developing for old-gen, we may never know the details - there might have been no point compromising, true, yet the decision was made and the game was developed on 5 platforms and this had a significant impact on how the game was made.

 

Therefore it's a serious consideration when comparing DAI to next-gen exclusive title like TW3, which was developed without such handicap.

[line_genrou]

It's their fault that they decided to develop for other platforms and it turned out to be a mess. EAware wanted more money so they did that, even if everyone with an old-gen ended up screwed over.

 

I don't get your point, you're saying it's a bad thing that TW3 was only developed for next-gen and EAware is awesome because they released the game for all platforms, and poor them they had to work with that so that's why the game was a hot mess on old-gen?

It's their own bloody fault for that decision and it's a shame that you seem to be excusing their ridiculous attempt of chashing in.

[Grieving Natashina]

_{<ignores yet another TW debate to focus on the topic>}

 

Wow, yeah, that's pretty bad.  Heck, I've got a picture of a mod that did something similar to one of my Shepards.  I don't use it because of that same texture problem.  I'm also not all that upset about it, because I didn't pay for it and the modder did it in their free time.  

 

However, that, coming from BioWare as an official DLC?  I'd actually find it a little insulting and it looks like crap.  I'm glad I didn't pick that up.  

 

Throw this on topic of the developers avoiding the forums for any and all reasons and it adds to the growing bitterness I've had towards the DA team.  For better or for worse, DA:I reminded me why I almost never buy a game brand new, and usually wait for 6-12 months before picking it up.  

 

For most games, by that point, the bugs have been documented, the DLCs have been rated and there is a large patch history I can grab, so I feel more ready to go.  It only reinforced why I don't pre-order the majority of the time, and why I'm not pre-ordering ME:A (though I'm excited for it.)  I'm not swearing anything off, but I'm a lot more cautious than I had been prior to last November.

 

_{Of course, I still can't get any of the armor schematics to show up from JoH in the Undercroft or Haven, and I paid money for that too.  I've tried repairing the game, reinstalling the DLC, and patching.  I haven't tried reinstalling yet, but that's a pain and the rest of the DLC works.   So no armor DLC purchases until that's working.  I'm not buying SotQ.  Thanks for the warning OP.}  

[midnight tea]

I don't get your point, you're saying it's a bad thing that TW3 was only developed for next-gen and EAware is awesome because they released the game for all platforms, and poor them they had to work with that so that's why the game was a hot mess on old-gen?

It's their own bloody fault for that decision and it's a shame that you seem to be excusing their ridiculous attempt of chashing in.

 

You completely missed my point - what's worse, you seem to really be disinterested at getting it, instead dismissing it as me merely excusing Bioware for "cashing in".

 

First - where did you even get an idea that I'm implying that TW3 did a bad thing by not developing for old-gen? The only thing I'm saying - VERY CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY I should say - is that they didn't have to deal with old systems hampering their development, which in itself has an impact on both products and make direct comparisons between games more complicated.

[midnight tea]

Of course, I still can't get any of the armor schematics to show up from JoH in the Undercroft or Haven, and I paid money for that too.  I've tried repairing the game, reinstalling the DLC, and patching.  I haven't tried reinstalling yet, but that's a pain and the rest of the DLC works.   So no armor DLC purchases until that's working.  I'm not buying SotQ.  Thanks for the warning OP.  

 

Have you tried connecting to Dragon Age server in game? In my case, the DLC content only appears after I log in for some reason - I mean, I don't have to be logged in at all times for it to work, just once after a purchase for the game to link the content with my game.

[Grieving Natashina]

Have you tried connecting to Dragon Age server in game? In my case, the DLC content only appears after I log in for some reason - I mean, I don't have to be logged in at all times for it to work, just once after a purchase for the game to link the content with my game.

Yep, tried that too.  Thanks anyways.  

[panzerwzh]

It's their fault that they decided to develop for other platforms and it turned out to be a mess. EAware wanted more money so they did that, even if everyone with an old-gen ended up screwed over.
 
I don't get your point, you're saying it's a bad thing that TW3 was only developed for next-gen and EAware is awesome because they released the game for all platforms, and poor them they had to work with that so that's why the game was a hot mess on old-gen?
It's their own bloody fault for that decision and it's a shame that you seem to be excusing their ridiculous attempt of chashing in.

This, no one force Bioware to release DAI on old gens then abbendens it half way. it is certainly not an excuses for them to release low quality copy paste paid DLCs for PC/current gen customers. Both shameful plays fall on EAware alone.

[Gileadan]

"Here's some companion head to NPC body model copy-paste we did yesterday afternoon. Wanna buy? Five bucks."

 

So now we've advanced from Hawke's mage champion armor's automated steroid injectors to full body mutation and some kind of Agent Orange for Varric's chest hair?

 

Progress!

 

Here's to more "Spoils of <faction>" DLC soon...

[Orvar83]

The reason why the game stutters and runs the way it does because the hardware has already been pushed to its limit - and yet its limit is still far below limit of current gen and PCs. There were articles upon articles, as well as tweets and comments from devs when they explained why some things couldn't be done or implemented simply because their implementation wouldn't just make the old gens stutter or lag, but simply crash and burn.

That's also the reason why the eventually dropped the support for old-gens for DLCs - we know at least one reason why, and according to Darrah, old-gens wouldn't be able to run things they're planning, which includes increased creature number on screen.

 

As for decision behind developing for old-gen, we may never know the details - there might have been no point compromising, true, yet the decision was made and the game was developed on 5 platforms and this had a significant impact on how the game was made.

 

Therefore it's a serious consideration when comparing DAI to next-gen exclusive title like TW3, which was developed without such handicap.

I'm sorry but the argument of "old gen can't handle it" is totally moot, I mean look at AC4 black flag, GTA V, or Skyrim, a game that ran like crap on ps3 and it still ran and looked better than DA:I!, but wait, I know what you're thinking, "those games where developed for last gen hardware, this game was developed with current gen hw and pc hw in mind", well that's precisely my point, if they had wanted to have this game work properly on old gen, they would've either made it for last gen and then ported it to next gen (and don't tell me a game this size or this complex was not possible on old gen cause RDR, GTA V, Skyrim, AC 4 would beg to differ), or, if the argument of "ohhh but that would've looked awfull on current gen" where to be made (which shouldn't cause let's face it, the game on currentt gen isn't even on par with other current gen titles graphically, the witcher, Batman AK, AC Unity, are all testaments to that, I mean it's not even on par with GTA V ,a game developed originally for last gen) they could've just delaid the ps3/360 port till they made sure they had optimized the sh*t out of the game to make it work just right, this would've been possible, and i'm pretty sure last gen gamers (being one myself) would've prefered waiting even for a year, rather than getting a p*ss port. The only reason why a game like this runs like crap, is cause Bioware and EA wanted to milk last gen money, with out really putting out an effort to make their product playable on said platforms, and not only that, but they also managed to hinder the game for both current gen, and pc while doing so, cause also let's face it, the game doesn't look that well, or run that well for that matter on those platforms either, is the game any good? off course it is, i'm not saying it's not, i myself have put 150ish hours on my first playthrough on the ps3, even despite it's "short comings" i've played the hell out of it, it's THAT good, but just cause the game is good doesn't mean that this was a quality product or that bioware has been straight to consumers and had a good customer support, niether for current gen nor for last, nor for pc, the only difference between the three, is that in last gen's case they even took away the "short straw" they had delivered to us themselves at the cost of our money.....which by the way I don't care about so much as about the game actually running well on my platform, cause that's the standard, and that's what I paid for.

[TheOgre]

_{<ignores yet another TW debate to focus on the topic>}

are you playing the drinkquisition? Get ready for another hit.

*inhales a deep breath*

Why can't this game be more like ex game!??
Something about pc vs console
Something about romance options
Skyhold pajamas...
Combat!!!
Coryphamous complaints..

Okay more like five shots. Hahahaha aaaaaaaaaaaarrrgh!

[AlanC9]

This actually makes me wonder even more. How come developers at CDPR can do a better job with less pay than the ones at Bioware? You would've thought that more money means better quality right? Guess it is not the case for Bioware.

Why would more money mean more quality? CDPR gets to pay less because they're paying in zlotys in a Polish wage structure, not because they're hiring stupid people. It's sorta like what China does with manufacturing.

Though of course, like China, it's possible that their lower pay really does get them workers who are smarter and harder-working than the ones we get with the higher pay.

[midnight tea]

I'm sorry but the argument of "old gen can't handle it" is totally moot, I mean look at AC4 black flag, GTA V, or Skyrim, a game that ran like crap on ps3 and it still ran and looked better than DA:I!,

 

*sigh* The argument is not moot, especially if the game is actively compared to exclusively next-gen title. Nobody compares Skyrim, GTA V or AC4 Black Flag as actively and incessantly as DAI is to TW3. 

 

 

I know what you're thinking, "those games where developed for last gen hardware, this game was developed with current gen hw and pc hw in mind", well that's precisely my point, if they had wanted to have this game work properly on old gen, they would've either made it for last gen and then ported it to next gen (and don't tell me a game this size or this complex was not possible on old gen cause RDR, GTA V, Skyrim, AC 4 would beg to differ)

 

Well NO - the game hasn't been developed with current gen and PC in mind: it was developed with 5 platforms in mind, BUT in order for them to work on 5 platforms AND the game remain the same (gameplay-wise at least, even if not graphic-wise) many elements from the game had to be cut or heavily limited or modified in order for old gen platforms to be able to run it.

 

Also - comparing old-gen games from 2010/2011 like RDR and Skyrim to 2014 title?

And AC is not an RPG, it's an action-adventure game, nowhere near as complicated to make as an RPG (DAI is also the first RPG to utilize Frostbite 3).

 

Apples and oranges.

 

The most legit comparisons out of all those would be GTAV, but again - it's an open-world action adventure game, developed in 2013 and known to be the most expensive game ever made at that time.

 

or, if the argument of "ohhh but that would've looked awfull on current gen" where to be made (which shouldn't cause let's face it, the game on currentt gen isn't even on par with other current gen titles graphically, the witcher, Batman AK, AC Unity, are all testaments to that, I mean it's not even on par with GTA V ,a game developed originally for last gen)

 

Um, you realize that you're all over the place now? First you say that developing for old-gen is a moot point and then you go on and point out that the game isn't on par, graphically with exclusively next-gen titles, which is my exact point.

 

they could've just delaid the ps3/360 port till they made sure they had optimized the sh*t out of the game to make it work just right, this would've been possible, and i'm pretty sure last gen gamers (being one myself) would've prefered waiting even for a year, rather than getting a p*ss port

 

The game has been already delayed twice.

 

 

The only reason why a game like this runs like crap, is cause Bioware and EA wanted to milk last gen money, with out really putting out an effort to make their product playable on said platforms, and not only that, but they also managed to hinder the game for both current gen, and pc while doing so, cause also let's face it, the game doesn't look that well, or run that well for that matter on those platforms either, is the game any good?

 

.... apparently is good enough that its only worthy contender is superb Witcher 3

 

In any case - having a glitchy port is not cool and PC players weren't happy to get weird controls or DirectX errors as well. The thing with PCs and next-gens is though is that they're the current standard games strive to AND they're far more flexible and forgiving when using new technologies (new engines, shaders, etc), while it probably cost the developer a lot of effort and money to scale the game down and even then the hardware capabilities weren't enough to handle the game properly. Who and in what circumstances made the decision to push and develop DAI on 5 platforms, we may never know - it might have been that it's simply a matter of the awkward transition period between old and next gen on the market and by the time the DA team got extra development period, things were already set in stone in that regard. In any case - the fact remains that DAI is a 5 platform title, and while it doesn't run well on old-gen, while still bearing the limitations of it, the game still manages to be impressive enough in looks and scope that it's being compared to next-gen, rather than old-gen titles.

[Panda]

.... apparently is good enough that its only worthy contender is superb Witcher 3

 

In any case - having a glitchy port is not cool and PC players weren't happy to get weird controls or DirectX errors as well. The thing with PCs and next-gens is though is that they're the current standard games strive to AND they're far more flexible and forgiving when using new technologies (new engines, shaders, etc), while it probably cost the developer a lot of effort and money to scale the game down and even then the hardware capabilities weren't enough to handle the game properly. Who and in what circumstances made the decision to push and develop DAI on 5 platforms, we may never know - it might have been that it's simply a matter of the awkward transition period between old and next gen on the market and by the time the DA team got extra development period, things were already set in stone in that regard. In any case - the fact remains that DAI is a 5 platform title, and while it doesn't run well on old-gen, while still bearing the limitations of it, the game still manages to be impressive enough in looks and scope that it's being compared to next-gen, rather than old-gen titles.

 

Well in my point of view what happened to DAI was that developers didn't take any platform consideration enough. They made new gen game that was supposed to be cross-gen by limiting some of things that were absolutely must in order game had any hope on old gen, since engine already seemed to be wrong choice for this platform and the way Bioware approached making the game (too big and consuming). In the result porting of DAI on old gen is quite poor and with mininum amount of patches (it would have needed fixing for many somewhat unique platform problems, but only got few fixes that came to every platform) it doesn't even live up to Bioware's older games on old gen when comparing some things like stability (big issue still) and quality of textures especially on characters. The port just makes it lot lower than it should have been on old  gen.

 

And what comes to new gen since the game was designed in the way that was too consuming to old gen starting with wrong engine for cross-gen game there was some things that got cut down due to hardware not being able to support them. These mostly seem to be battle scenes with many characters in the screen same time. Quality of the game is however lot better than in old gen and many issues have been improved via patched that old gen newer had. For there reasons new gen version can hold up new gen only games although it might lose bit for them like TW3 depending on what people think is important in the game. Unlike on old gen that suffers from poor porting that Bioware never tried to better and DAI on old gen can't be compared to new gen games, not even cross-gen when it barely holds up to Bioware's older old gen games like DA2 (for example character resolution lot sharper and not mushy) and ME3 (can't think anything ME3 loses to DAI except ending ).

[midnight tea]

Well in my point of view what happened to DAI was that developers didn't take any platform consideration enough. They made new gen game that was supposed to be cross-gen by limiting some of things that were absolutely must in order game had any hope on old gen, since engine already seemed to be wrong choice for this platform and the way Bioware approached making the game (too big and consuming). In the result porting of DAI on old gen is quite poor and with mininum amount of patches (it would have needed fixing for many somewhat unique platform problems, but only got few fixes that came to every platform) it doesn't even live up to Bioware's older games on old gen when comparing some things like stability (big issue still) and quality of textures especially on characters. The port just makes it lot lower than it should have been on old  gen.

 

You realize, that there's more to game graphics than just textures? I mean, if the game has to generate a much bigger area, with more complicated lightning or props and character models with higher polygon number, there's even less memory or rendering capabilities to spare for high-quality textures than it is in previous games. 

 

Besides - they didn't just "limit some things". Just look, for example, what designers said about creating armors for DAI in interview for Pixologic (http://pixologic.com...ition/index.php ):

 

Spoiler

"One of the big goals we set out to achieve was to improve upon the armor mod ability we had done on previous BioWare games. I wanted to give the player the choice to wear not just cool armor but to get the feeling of upgrading it throughout the course of the game. Unfortunately, we ran into some challenges that made it difficult to achieve that goal fully. One of those was having to deal with limited part counts and performance budgets on the previous gen consoles. Limited G-Buffers also made it impossible to pull off our multi-material characters and attempts to apply full PBR (Physically Based Rendering) rules. So the challenge came in expending time to make variations with fewer parts, rather than have many parts with interchangeable variety. In the end we came up with novel solutions to work around these issues but I feel we could have done so much more. That said, the future looks bright for the possibilities."

 

If old-gen limitation hit even as important (for an RPG) area of game as character design and customization, you can imagine how much had to be modified or design to conform to hardware limitations.

 

In other words - no, it's not just "being unable to support battle scenes with many characters".

[Panda]

You realize, that there's more to game graphics than just textures? I mean, if the game has to generate a much bigger area, with more complicated lightning or props and character models with higher polygon number, there's even less memory or rendering capabilities to spare for high-quality textures than it is in previous games. 

 

Besides - they didn't just "limit some things". Just look, for example, what designers said about creating armors for DAI in interview for Pixologic (http://pixologic.com...ition/index.php ):

 

Spoiler

"One of the big goals we set out to achieve was to improve upon the armor mod ability we had done on previous BioWare games. I wanted to give the player the choice to wear not just cool armor but to get the feeling of upgrading it throughout the course of the game. Unfortunately, we ran into some challenges that made it difficult to achieve that goal fully. One of those was having to deal with limited part counts and performance budgets on the previous gen consoles. Limited G-Buffers also made it impossible to pull off our multi-material characters and attempts to apply full PBR (Physically Based Rendering) rules. So the challenge came in expending time to make variations with fewer parts, rather than have many parts with interchangeable variety. In the end we came up with novel solutions to work around these issues but I feel we could have done so much more. That said, the future looks bright for the possibilities."

 

If old-gen limitation hit even as important (for an RPG) area of game as character design and customization, you can imagine how much had to be modified or design to conform to hardware limitations.

 

In other words - no, it's not just "being unable to support battle scenes with many characters".

 

Simply put.. DAI looks worse in many aspect than DA2, even DAO at times.

 

Well lot of things can be done with old gens too. If the game is designed with them in mind. That statement from Bioware also reveals that it wasn't, they didn't in any point seem to consider what could be done well in old gen, they just had all ideas they couldn't make the way they wanted. They simply were over their heads and weren't realistic.

[midnight tea]

Simply put.. DAI looks worse in many aspect than DA2, even DAO at times.

 

.... You don't seem to even bother to read what I was saying.

 

 

 

 

Well lot of things can be done with old gens too. If the game is designed with them in mind. That statement from Bioware also reveals that it wasn't, they didn't in any point seem to consider what could be done well in old gen, they just had all ideas they couldn't make the way they wanted. They simply were over their heads and weren't realistic.

 

It's rather clear from that excerpt alone that if they designed just with next-gen and PC in mind the game wouldn't run on old-gen at all. They had to take all platforms into consideration, it is - after all - a cross-gen title.

[Panda]

.... You don't seem to even bother to read what I was saying.

 

 

 

It's rather clear from that excerpt alone that if they designed just with next-gen and PC in mind the game wouldn't run on old-gen at all. They had to take all platforms into consideration, it is - after all - a cross-gen title.

 

I did. I just concluded my thoughts on it in simple manner.

 

It doesn't work like cross-gen title. Actually I think you didn't read very clearly either, I did say that they made new gen game then realised they had to tone down stuff in order it to somehow work on old gen and this what they have done. Like for example they first did tactical cam then realised it drains too much memory (or that some other stuff drains too much memory) and decided to tone it down on old gen by adding annoying fading blacks to reserve memory (confimed on twitter by dev). So instead of thinking of making cross-gen tactical cam they made new gen and then were suprised it didn't work on old gen and cut it down in annoying way instead of making it right since the start. That has been story of the whole port of DAI on old gen