78 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Huh?

Project Overlord? Project Ctulhu? Project Jack? Collector base? TIM?

 

Yeah... those were clearly the bad guys and/or dead. Overlord wouldn't have worked anyway, everyone on the dead Reaper was a husk (and since when is research on an abandoned machine a morality issue?), Project Zero was a local issue and not Cerberus and there was no Cerberus on the Collector base except for the three you brought with  you.

 

The Lazarus cell Cerberus agents (your crew) were handpicked to be good guys, they were clearly white morality NPCs. It's even adressed in the game several times.

 

There was never any doubt on who was good or evil in ME. Clear cut, just like Star Wars.

[Ahriman]

Yeah... those were clearly the bad guys and/or dead. Overlord wouldn't have worked anyway

Because writers demand so?

 

everyone on the dead Reaper was a husk (and since when is research on an abandoned machine a morality issue?)

Since sending your scientists on certain death is, I guess.

 

Project Zero was a local issue

It was monitored by TIM, for Shepard's sake.

 

there was no Cerberus on the Collector base except for the three you brought with  you.

Stop trolling me.

 

There was never any doubt on who was good or evil in ME.

So was TIM evil or good in ME2?

[DaemionMoadrin]

So was TIM evil or good in ME2?

 

Evil. Dude, he used a colony as Collector bait.

[Ahriman]

Evil. Dude, he used a colony as Collector bait.

But he did it to save other colonies. So how it's different from "someone who breaks the law, threatens people and makes deals with villains in order to do good."?

[DaemionMoadrin]

But he did it to save other colonies. So how it's different from "someone who breaks the law, threatens people and makes deals with villains in order to do good."?

 

Because he got hundreds, if not thousands of people killed in the process and called it a success? He simply went too far.

 

Morality is subjective though. Someone else might see his actions differently.

[Quarian Master Race]

Overlord wouldn't have worked anyway

It did work up to the point that David goes braindead (renegade) and Gavin runs away from the project out of guilt. The idea was sound, and the findings resulted in the organic-artificial brain interface used in the geth propaganda sidemission during ME3. Who knows what could have happened with further refinement, considering that progress was certainly being made.

That's pretty much the definition of a "grey" (whatever that means) moral choice. Sacrificing the free will of one life and the lives of a few others for the possibility of saving billions via not only neutralizing the geth threat, but co-opting the powerful consensus to work for you.

[Kabooooom]

Kumon Shol discovers the ancient ruins of the "beings of light" on Klencory, which were actually the Remnant. The ruins give information on where to find a piece of ancient technology, floating in interstellar space and thus impossible to find unless you knew exactly where to look, the purpose of which is to create a wormhole to Andromeda to escape the Reapers.

Everyone assumes the beings of light did this for benevolent reasons. A colonization force goes through, as a contingency measure - the Ark Contingency, in case the Crucible fails.

Once in Andromeda, they discover hostile native species and more Remnant technology - as well as the true purpose of the Remnant, which was not benevolent.

That will be the cliche story, I would guess.

[Kabooooom]

It did work up to the point that David goes braindead (renegade) and Gavin runs away from the project out of guilt. The idea was sound, and the findings resulted in the organic-artificial brain interface used in the geth propaganda sidemission during ME3. Who knows what could have happened with further refinement, considering that progress was certainly being made.

That's pretty much the definition of a "grey" (whatever that means) moral choice. Sacrificing the free will of one life and the lives of a few others for the possibility of saving billions via not only neutralizing the geth threat, but co-opting the powerful consensus to work for you.

"Geth propaganda side mission" - I lold. Spoken like a true Quarian.

[Quarian Master Race]

"Geth propaganda side mission" - I lold. Spoken like a true Quarian.

It's literally propaganda. The information doesn't have to be untrue, but merely presented in a completely one sided, biased manner designed to influence opinion toward a particular cause. Why does it focus on self admitted (by not-Legion and Geth VI) minority incidents of quarians defending nonviolent platforms, then skip straight from the martial law period to the quarian exodus,  thus ignoring the actual war and 2 billion+ genocide in between? Why couldn't I see quarian cities being chemically/biologically WMDed, and geriatrics, children, and neutral offworld species (such as Erinya's asari partner) being indiscriminately stuck on spikes by the toasters? Why couldn't I see Council peace envoys being shot by geth without so much as a warning? Because all that happened according to other sources in the lore, but curiously is not presented in the geth's little film.

[DaemionMoadrin]

It did work up to the point that David goes braindead (renegade) and Gavin runs away from the project out of guilt. The idea was sound, and the findings resulted in the organic-artificial brain interface used in the geth propaganda sidemission during ME3. Who knows what could have happened with further refinement, considering that progress was certainly being made.

That's pretty much the definition of a "grey" (whatever that means) moral choice. Sacrificing the free will of one life and the lives of a few others for the possibility of saving billions via not only neutralizing the geth threat, but co-opting the powerful consensus to work for you.

 

Overlord's goal was communicating with and then taking control of the Geth... which would have worked up until the point when the Reaper code comes into play. Plus an organic mind needs to rest/sleep and can't keep the control in place 24/7.

 

 

Kumon Shol discovers the ancient ruins of the "beings of light" on Klencory, which were actually the Remnant. The ruins give information on where to find a piece of ancient technology, floating in interstellar space and thus impossible to find unless you knew exactly where to look, the purpose of which is to create a wormhole to Andromeda to escape the Reapers.

Everyone assumes the beings of light did this for benevolent reasons. A colonization force goes through, as a contingency measure - the Ark Contingency, in case the Crucible fails.

Once in Andromeda, they discover hostile native species and more Remnant technology - as well as the true purpose of the Remnant, which was not benevolent.

That will be the cliche story, I would guess.

 

I hope not, it sounds awful. It would be a retcon, a huge mess of clichés and entirely predictable.

 

So of course, we'll see it in 2016.

 

 

It's literally propaganda. The information doesn't have to be untrue, but merely presented in a completely one sided, biased manner designed to influence opinion toward a particular cause. Why does it focus on self admitted (by not-Legion and Geth VI) minority incidents of quarians defending nonviolent platforms, then skip straight from the martial law period to the quarian exodus,  thus ignoring the actual war and 2 billion+ genocide in between? Why couldn't I see quarian cities being chemically/biologically WMDed, and geriatrics, children, and neutral offworld species (such as Erinya's asari partner) being indiscriminately stuck on spikes by the toasters? Why couldn't I see Council peace envoys being shot by geth without so much as a warning? Because all that happened according to other sources in the lore, but curiously is not presented in the geth's little film.

 

I was with you until the part with the spikes. Those were Reaper tech and not available to the Geth during the war.

 

I can't really blame the Geth in ME3 because they are a victim of bad writing just like everyone else.

[Quarian Master Race]

Overlord's goal was communicating with and then taking control of the Geth... which would have worked up until the point when the Reaper code comes into play. Plus an organic mind needs to rest/sleep and can't keep the control in place 24/7.

 

 

I was with you until the part with the spikes. Those were Reaper tech and not available to the Geth during the war.

 

I can't really blame the Geth in ME3 because they are a victim of bad writing just like everyone else.

You mean that Reaper code that I deny the geth from having in every playthrough? Perhaps if Overlord had been able to continue, there would have been another option for saving the geth that didn't involve making them the galaxy's dominant power, and destroying the machines would have been unnecessary

I know, the part with spikes is a joke. Do you prefer millions having their skin and eyes burned out by the chemical weapons used by the geth specifically for their own immunity to them? Perhaps barbecuing infants and elderly noncombatants via flamethrower or EMP is more humane? The point is I didn't see it in that video, but it certainly happened, ergo, propaganda.

Nah, the geth have some of the most outstandingly inconsistent writing of anything over the entire series. It wasn't just ME3 where the pinnochio syndrome and attempted whitewashing of previous lore started, Legion's N7 armor piece was nonsensical as were its descriptions of geth motives during the rebellion. The writers didn't have a clear vision at all of what they wanted the geth to be.

[Dantriges]

The council sent peace envoys?

[Quarian Master Race]

The council sent peace envoys?

Yes and they were indiscriminately slaughtered by the geth (not Heretics, they obviously didn't exist yet). It is in Revelation, which is canon material.

[Oldren Shepard]

But he did it to save other colonies. So how it's different from "someone who breaks the law, threatens people and makes deals with villains in order to do good."?

The illusive man: Because i'm bat..TIM

[DaemionMoadrin]

The council sent peace envoys?

 

The Quarians had lots of aliens on Rannoch, too. Traders, merchants, tourists, diplomats, contractors... all killed by the Geth, too.

[Quarian Master Race]

The Quarians had lots of aliens on Rannoch, too. Traders, merchants, tourists, diplomats, contractors... all killed by the Geth, too.

Indeed, the quarians were a Council affiliate species at that point. The ingame example you get is the Feros colonist sidequest with Erinya from ME2. Part of her asari-centric racism is motivated by the fact that her asari bondmate was killed by the geth on Rannoch during the uprising while studying quarian music and art, as were both her daughters on the Citadel during ME1.

[Kabooooom]

It's literally propaganda. The information doesn't have to be untrue, but merely presented in a completely one sided, biased manner designed to influence opinion toward a particular cause. Why does it focus on self admitted (by not-Legion and Geth VI) minority incidents of quarians defending nonviolent platforms, then skip straight from the martial law period to the quarian exodus, thus ignoring the actual war and 2 billion+ genocide in between? Why couldn't I see quarian cities being chemically/biologically WMDed, and geriatrics, children, and neutral offworld species (such as Erinya's asari partner) being indiscriminately stuck on spikes by the toasters? Why couldn't I see Council peace envoys being shot by geth without so much as a warning? Because all that happened according to other sources in the lore, but curiously is not presented in the geth's little film.

Meh, no matter, the Geth had more of a right to Rannoch than the Quarians anyways.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Meh, no matter, the Geth had more of a right to Rannoch than the Quarians anyways.

 

How so? Right of conquest?

 

If one day our computers rebel and we need to get off the planet, does it belong to the machines then?

[Kabooooom]

How so? Right of conquest?

If one day our computers rebel and we need to get off the planet, does it belong to the machines then?

I was just trolling him.

[Kabooooom]

I do agree though, I much prefer suit rat propaganda over Geth propaganda.










There, is that more obvious?

[Quarian Master Race]

Meh, no matter, the Geth had more of a right to Rannoch than the Quarians anyways.

Hahahah, you said toasters had rights. 


whatever you need to justify poor decision making based on misguided feels.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I was just trolling him.

 

We have proper trolling threads for that. Leave this one alone please. ^^

[Kabooooom]

We have proper trolling threads for that. Leave this one alone please. ^^

Nah, I think ill do what I want. Thanks, though.

[Kabooooom]

Hahahah, you said toasters had rights.


whatever you need to justify poor decision making based on misguided feels.

You're preaching to the choir, Broseiden. The only difference between us is I kill the Geth a little later on, as their participation is of great temporary use.

[KaiserShep]

You're preaching to the choir, Broseiden. The only difference between us is I kill the Geth a little later on, as their participation is of great temporary use.

Yeah, whatever one thinks of the geth, if you're going to throw cannon fodder at the reapers, swaths of machines isn't the worst idea in the world, unless you're utterly convinced that they'll just suddenly kill all organics in the heat of battle because why not.