Yeah, whatever one thinks of the geth, if you're going to throw cannon fodder at the reapers, swaths of machines isn't the worst idea in the world, unless you're utterly convinced that they'll just suddenly kill all organics in the heat of battle because why not.
The Quarians had lots of aliens on Rannoch, too. Traders, merchants, tourists, diplomats, contractors... all killed by the Geth, too.
Was just a question. Didn´t knew that.
Yeah, whatever one thinks of the geth, if you're going to throw cannon fodder at the reapers, swaths of machines isn't the worst idea in the world, unless you're utterly convinced that they'll just suddenly kill all organics in the heat of battle because why not.
Well, they've done it before.....like 3 times. That and you don't know you'll be able to get rid of them with destroy at the time even if you assume they'll play nice for a little while. I'd rather have the 5 war assets I get from Chobot talking about the quarians than the geth's 510 or whatever anyway. I don't need mindless toasters to throw at the Reapers, that's what the battletoads are for. Thank the Ancestors for MP character promotions and Aria's DLC.
You don´t need them anyways. Max EMS needed is 3100 and I have 3,7k right now without one MP character and grilled toasters. .
The way I see it, if you can get so far as to successfully destroy the reapers with them as allies, who cares what they might do later? Destroying the reapers easily takes precedence. The geth are easily more useful than the krogan, because unlike the battletoads, the geth do all of their own transport and can produce new troops. Makes them a tough enemy to beat, but also an invaluable resource against the reapers' ground forces and even the destroyers. Considering the stakes, it's an acceptable risk, in my opinion.Well, they've done it before.....like 3 times. That and you don't know you'll be able to get rid of them with destroy at the time even if you assume they'll play nice for a little while. I'd rather have the 5 war assets I get from Chobot talking about the quarians than the geth's 510 or whatever anyway. I don't need mindless toasters to throw at the Reapers, that's what the battletoads are for. Thank the Ancestors for MP character promotions and Aria's DLC.
The way I see it, if you can get so far as to successfully destroy the reapers with them as allies, who cares what they might do later? Destroying the reapers easily takes precedence. The geth are easily more useful than the krogan, because unlike the battletoads, the geth do all of their own transport and can produce new troops. Makes them a tough enemy to beat, but also an invaluable resource against the reapers' ground forces and even the destroyers. Considering the stakes, it's an acceptable risk, in my opinion.
Not really. Reaper code will make them the ascendant beings of the galaxy once the Reapers are dealt with and they rebuild their numbers. Once the Reapers are gone, and thus the competition eliminated, there is nothing to stop them from doing as they will and enforcing any conditions they wish upon whomever they wish.
At the time, giving them the code is utterly stupid in every way unless your goal is to transfer the organics from one cage to another, even if it is possibly (if their motives are to be believed, which is not at all certain given their propensity for lying) a more gilded cage than the one the Reapers had them in. I'd rather hit the refuse button and let the next cycle take their chances than win by "allying" with the geth. Fortunately, I needn't do either.
I'd take the Geth over the Quarians, though I hope both show up and are friends.
How did this become another Discussion about the darn Geth?
How did this become another Discussion about the darn Geth?
People discussed Project Overlord, which involved Cerberus trying to enslave the Geth.
How did this become another Discussion about the darn Geth?
Somebody took offense to my diction. Everywhere I go, threads derail in futile attempts at toaster defense.
Somebody took offense to my diction. Everywhere I go, threads derail in futile attempts at toaster defense.
Or in other words QMR spreads contention everywhere he goes 
Somebody took offense to my diction. Everywhere I go, threads derail in futile attempts at toaster defense.
Maybe you should post about something relevant to the Discussion in that Case, instead of hitting dead Toasters?
Somebody took offense to my diction. Everywhere I go, threads derail in futile attempts at toaster defense.
You're my favourite Quarian but I kind of hoped at least one of my threads would start a productive discussion. Oh well, there's always next time.
Maybe you should post about something relevant to the Discussion in that Case, instead of hitting dead Toasters?
I did
Overlord wouldn't have worked anyway
It did work up to the point that David goes braindead (renegade) and Gavin runs away from the project out of guilt. The idea was sound, and the findings resulted in the organic-artificial brain interface used in the geth propaganda sidemission during ME3. Who knows what could have happened with further refinement, considering that progress was certainly being made.
That's pretty much the definition of a "grey" (whatever that means) moral choice. Sacrificing the free will of one life and the lives of a few others for the possibility of saving billions via not only neutralizing the geth threat, but co-opting the powerful consensus to work for you.
It's not my fault that people can't handle the truth and get caught up by my eloquent manner of elucidating it.
You're my favourite Quarian but I kind of hoped at least one of my threads would start a productive discussion. Oh well, there's always next time.
This thread is productive. It is producing enlightenment for toaster hugging neo-hippies everywhere. It's doing good, noble work.
Not really. Reaper code will make them the ascendant beings of the galaxy once the Reapers are dealt with and they rebuild their numbers. Once the Reapers are gone, and thus the competition eliminated, there is nothing to stop them from doing as they will and enforcing any conditions they wish upon whomever they wish.
At the time, giving them the code is utterly stupid in every way unless your goal is to transfer the organics from one cage to another, even if it is possibly (if their motives are to be believed, which is not at all certain given their propensity for lying) a more gilded cage than the one the Reapers had them in. I'd rather hit the refuse button and let the next cycle take their chances than win by "allying" with the geth. Fortunately, I needn't do either.
The ironic part is the Geth were going to help organics in the war against the Reapers, even building the strongest ship of our cycle, without anything in return but then the Quarians attacked. They would never have gone to the Reapers in desperation and never had the Reaper code.
It's a cost analysis, simple as that. Assuming the Crucible fails (which is a good assumption), then the Reapers will exterminate everyone. If the Geth help, they may provide the cannon fodder, shipyards, and other infrastructure to help combat the Reapers substantially and in a protracted, centuries long fight perhaps even win the war. Fighting machines with machines. OR, the Geth may turn on you during or after the war and exterminate you as surely as the Reapers - a reasonable concern, to be sure.
So you are left with two possibilities:
1) certain extinction by the Reapers
2) POSSIBLE extinction with the Geth, potentially victory in the Reaper War.
#2 is the only one that makes strategic sense.
No, there are hundreds of thousands of Reapers, 20,000+ of them Harbinger/Soverign class. Each Sovereign class Reaper is the equal of and can only be destroyed by several dreadnoughts, of which there are less than 70 of in the galaxy before the war (many of which are lost during it). The war is literally unwinnable by conventional means. Planning for protracted conflict is pointless. Crucible fails= extinction. End of.
Unless you think the geth are the key to getting the Crucible built in time (they provide no war assets toward it), than they are canon fodder to throw in front of it. You only need a certain amount of cannon fodder, but saving the galaxy from reapers is pointless if you are just going to replace them with other godlike machines based on their technology, unless that was your goal.
The ironic part is the Geth were going to help organics in the war against the Reapers, even building the strongest ship of our cycle, without anything in return but then the Quarians attacked. They would never have gone to the Reapers in desperation and never had the Reaper code.
They spent their time "preparing" by building a useless dyson bubble. If they wanted to help they should have stopped squatting on the planet they didn't need, but another useful faction for war effort did. Failing that, after being rightfully attacked they should have done literally anything else than voluntarily choosing to ally with the Reapers if they wanted to help fight said Reapers, such as a retreat from said planet they were squatting on (IIRC someone else managed this without much issue and without allying with Reapers 300 years before them. Curious).
No, there are hundreds of thousands of Reapers, 20,000+ of them Harbinger/Soverign class. Each Sovereign class Reaper is the equal of and can only be destroyed by several dreadnoughts, of which there are less than 70 of in the galaxy before the war (many of which are lost during it). The war is literally unwinnable by conventional means. Planning for protracted conflict is pointless. Crucible fails= extinction. End of.
Unless you think the geth are the key to getting the Crucible built in time (they provide no war assets toward it), than they are canon fodder to throw in front of it. You only need a certain amount of cannon fodder, but saving the galaxy from reapers is pointless if you are just going to replace them with other godlike machines based on their technology, unless that was your goal.
They spent their time "preparing" by building a useless dyson bubble. If they wanted to help they should have stopped squatting on the planet they didn't need, but another useful faction for war effort did. Failing that, after being rightfully attacked they should have done literally anything else than voluntarily choosing to ally with the Reapers if they wanted to help fight said Reapers, such as a retreat from said planet they were squatting on (IIRC someone else managed this without much issue and without allying with Reapers 300 years before them. Curious).
I'm sure it has spiritual and psychological significance to the Geth.
And your response is something along the lines of Toasters don't have spirits or psyches. 'Cause they're toasters... (Love the BSG reference btw, lol)
My response to that is: Obviously they do, since allying with Legion shows actual character development, especially in ME3. So you can pretend they don't because that makes it easier for you to massacre them, but your belief does not make fact 
The description of the dyson sphere sounded like the real thing not the usual full metal sphere. The wiki description sounds like they spend most of their time on space stations anyways.
The description of the dyson sphere sounded like the real thing not the usual full metal sphere. The siki decroitipion sounds like they spend most of their time on space stations anyways.
They are software, they only need a place where they can put their servers. Atmosphere, gravity etc isn't needed.
That also explains why the Quarians lost the war: Everything they built was Geth. Every weapon, every tool, every machine was run by Geth software. And it all turned against them. (Btw... that makes using Geth weapons in ME weird... because that weapon probably houses a Geth or two.) If you have Geth, you don't need any other software again.
@QMR: How do you recognize an exhibitionistic Quarian?
Wrong. The war IS potentially winnable by conventional means but it is beyond the means of what the galaxy can currently do.
No, there are hundreds of thousands of Reapers, 20,000+ of them Harbinger/Soverign class. Each Sovereign class Reaper is the equal of and can only be destroyed by several dreadnoughts, of which there are less than 70 of in the galaxy before the war (many of which are lost during it). The war is literally unwinnable by conventional means. Planning for protracted conflict is pointless. Crucible fails= extinction. End of.
Unless you think the geth are the key to getting the Crucible built in time (they provide no war assets toward it), than they are canon fodder to throw in front of it. You only need a certain amount of cannon fodder, but saving the galaxy from reapers is pointless if you are just going to replace them with other godlike machines based on their technology, unless that was your goal.
They spent their time "preparing" by building a useless dyson bubble. If they wanted to help they should have stopped squatting on the planet they didn't need, but another useful faction for war effort did. Failing that, after being rightfully attacked they should have done literally anything else than voluntarily choosing to ally with the Reapers if they wanted to help fight said Reapers, such as a retreat from said planet they were squatting on (IIRC someone else managed this without much issue and without allying with Reapers 300 years before them. Curious).
Wrong. The war IS potentially winnable by conventional means but it is beyond the means of what the galaxy can currently do.
Keyword there is currently. You are thinking too much in the box.
Consider that the war would last centuries until completion of the harvest, ie: Exterminating every single being on every single world. The Geth dont sleep. They don't eat. They can live anywhere including in the cold darkness of space. Their workforce churned out a dreadnought in MONTHS.
Now imagine what they could do if they had half a century. A force capable of challenging, and maybe even defeating the Reapers could be constructed by the Geth EASILY.
Good thing you aren't in charge of war strategy. But then again, that's probably why you Quarians lost your homeworld and all other colonies to a bunch of machines.
Oh snap!
I'm sure it has spiritual and psychological significance to the Geth.
And your response is something along the lines of Toasters don't have spirits or psyches. 'Cause they're toasters... (Love the BSG reference btw, lol)
My response to that is: Obviously they do, since allying with Legion shows actual character development, especially in ME3. So you can pretend they don't because that makes it easier for you to massacre them, but your belief does not make fact
Even assuming I shared whatever psychosis results in your imputing sentience upon information processing machines that operate entirely via binary and mathematical logic (I don't), that would just make them all the less sympathetic. That would imply that their "guilt" is more important to them than the fact they are forcing the (actually sentinet) beings they genocided (and thus "feel" said "guilt" over) to near extinction to continue to live a rather unpleasant existence solely because they'd rather mope on their creators planet than effortlessly give it back to them and go mope somewhere else (or shut themselves down out of angst, that'd be convinient too).
They don't. Their "psyche" is a series of equations. Legion's "character development" (more like character derailment) is analogous to me upgrading my OS from Windows 98 to Windows 8. It is a pure input>output machine either way, one is simply more efficient. There's no pretending involved. In fact, if I shared your value ascriptions I would probably cackle manically as I put 3 bullets into Legion's head and watched the toasters get fried, because that would imply that I think that the horrendous actions performed by the geth are a result of subjective beliefs and malicious intent, and not merely a result of flawed programming logic and malfunctions in their mathematical subroutines (such as the one that created the Heretics).
As is, I'm disappointed that they can't be brought back under the control of their rightful masters and used for their benign intended purpose of safeguarding and improving organic existence, though deactivating them isn't exactly difficult considering that they are simply equipment. Indeed, I can't think of an easier decision given to me over the course of the series, other than destroying the Heretics.
Wrong. The war IS potentially winnable by conventional means but it is beyond the means of what the galaxy can currently do.
In other words, it's unwinnable by conventional means. Why did you even bother with spewing that ridiculous, wishful, illogic all over my computer screen, then? Moreover, even if it were possible (it isn't, the Reapers aren't going to sit there with their tentacles in their cloacas for centuries (actually millennia if you're doing the math) and allow the geth to build the hundreds of thousands of necessary dreadnoughts), what is the point in replacing malevolent machine masters with malevolent machine masters?
Wrong. The war IS potentially winnable by conventional means but it is beyond the means of what the galaxy can currently do.
Keyword there is currently. You are thinking too much in the box.
Consider that the war would last centuries until completion of the harvest, ie: Exterminating every single being on every single world. The Geth dont sleep. They don't eat. They can live anywhere including in the cold darkness of space. Their workforce churned out a dreadnought in MONTHS.
Now imagine what they could do if they had half a century. A force capable of challenging, and maybe even defeating the Reapers could be constructed by the Geth EASILY.
Good thing you aren't in charge of war strategy. But then again, that's probably why you Quarians lost your homeworld and all other colonies to a bunch of machines.
No, good thing you are not in charge.
Could the Geth construct a fleet capable of going up against the Reapers given time and resources? Sure they could.
Would the Reapers allow it to happen? No way. They'd attack the shipyards, they'd attack the supply lines, they'd infiltrate everything with indoctrinated people or hacked Geth.
To withstand the Reapers long enough to build their fleet the Geth need a huge fleet as defense force. Where exactly would they get that? Do you think all other species would give up their last defenses to help the Geth? Earth, Palaven and Thessia are burning, billions are dead and converted into husks. Should the galaxy give up everything on the off chance that the Geth can match the Reapers in terms of building a military force? Cause that's not going to happen.
The Reapers were the weakest right at the start of the war. Since then they turned millions of people into ground troops, wiped out the fleets of entire star systems and are indoctrinating everyone in range. How exactly would the Geth defeat the Reapers if their army grows more slowly? Maybe their strength was 1000:1 at first but the longer they wait, the more skewed it becomes. By the time the Geth are finally ready (assuming the Reapers allow them to continue), it would be more like 50000:1.
Also, have you done the math? Each capital Reaper needs to be countered with several dreadnaughts. Let's say 5 for each. The Reapers have at least 20.000 of those, which means you'd have to build 100.000 dreadnaughts. That's not counting the smaller Reapers or the ground forces.
If the Geth need 3 months to build a dreadnaught, then they'd need 25.000 years to build their fleet.
Oh sure, ideally you'd build nothing but fabrication units that replicate, then switch production to shipyards and the vessels themselves... but the Geth aren't using nano tech or anything like it, so it would still take thousands of years. Btw... the Reapers have nano tech and can convert a person into a foot soldier within hours.
Edit: That's just time. If you take the resources into account, it becomes even more ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much Element Zero you'd need to build all those drive cores? What about rare metals and alloys for the hulls? Where is all that supposed to come from? Mining and processing takes time, too. You'd have to strip mine millions of asteroids to get those resources, I doubt that's possible without Reaper interference.
Modifié par DaemionMoadrin, 22 juillet 2015 - 08:38 .
I am pretty sure ME:A is going to be the first of a series of games, similiar to DA:I. So this time around I hope the writers plan out the story in advance to avoid retcons and other unpleasant changes.
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