312 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Maybe Alistair misses the point with conscripting Loghain, but I'm still never going to pick Loghain over Alistair because of that. When it comes down to it, I can either roll with the guy who was my battle-brother for the last year, or some treasonous old fruitloop who just got his ass beat.

[Master Warder Z_]

Maybe Alistair misses the point with conscripting Loghain, but I'm still never going to pick Loghain over Alistair because of that. When it comes down to it, I can either roll with the guy who was my battle-brother for the last year, or some treasonous old fruitloop who just got his ass beat.

I'd take the fruitloop over the man child

[ComedicSociopathy]

I just looked up the Annex Kirkwall war table mission and realized that even if you do help Sebastian Aveline still manages to stop from taking over Kirkwall. 

 

Jeez, Sebastian is such a lame duck. 

[The Baconer]

I'd take the fruitloop over the man child

 

They both have their tantrums. But one of them will actually have the Strength to wear high level armor, and the other one has 30 Willpower.

[Master Warder Z_]

They both have their tantrums. But one of them will actually have the Strength to wear high level armor, and the other one has 30 Willpower.

 

Loghain comes in good enough armor to play through the rest of the game with if i recall right so that's ultimately inconsequential 

[MisterJB]

Ferelden needed generals and it needed Wardens above all. That's all there is to it.

 

Personally, while I can understand the why, I'd say Alistair's betrayal was worse than Loghain's.

Loghain didn't know better, he thought the orlesians were the real threat. Alistair knows this is a Blight, he has actually seen the Archdemon. He is oh so proud of being a Warden and he will actually turn his back on a BLIGHT!

[Andromelek]

Ferelden needed generals and it needed Wardens above all. That's all there is to it.
 
Personally, while I can understand the why, I'd say Alistair's betrayal was worse than Loghain's.
Loghain didn't know better, he thought the orlesians were the real threat. Alistair knows this is a Blight, he has actually seen the Archdemon. He is oh so proud of being a Warden and he will actually turn his back on a BLIGHT!

He is the dumbest character ever, what did you expect? the little hypocrite is a box of inconsistencies: He complains too much about being used as a pawn, yet, he runs gladly to save Eamon, even when he has treated him worse than everyone else, he in fact, he's only considered candidate to take the crown because is Eamon's loyal dog, he could hate the Witches of the Wilds, but they were just lovely compared to Eamon. He hates blood magic, rituals and that stuff, until it's used as a mean to keep his head upon his shoulders, disapproves siding with Zathrian, while the elf is just as vengeful as him, so, there is enough evidence to take him as a dumb, hypocrite, ungrateful, sonofabitch.

[Deztyn]

In first place i have already explained that that isn't reason by the simple fact if hawke kicks out Anders he cuts off his ties with him same for other companions (and even if do take him pretty much same ensues afterwards) , not to mention aveline could have leave hawke as i have said.They are only associates if she and anders stay in the party.

And no allowing someone to leave isn't helping someone ,not to mention that dealing with mages is templars job. If that somehow makes her guilty ,sebastian is as guilty as she is.

Also it isn't his goal explained that as well it is simple misplaced revenge.

Keeping order in Kirkwall is her job. She makes no attempt to see that justice is done, and in worldstates where Anders and Hawke are together and Bethany or Carver are still alive, she's actively aiding them in staying hidden.

In any case, she's just one example of a person Sebastian knows in Kirkwall that might have a lead on Anders.

Sebastian walks away instead of killing Anders because plot induced stupidity was required to allow the player to decide Anders' fate. he knew he couldn't fight Hawke if Hawke was determined to spare Anders.

And as I said earlier, it is entirely possible that he wants to hunt Anders and any of his allies to the ends if Thedas, while also sincerely trying to do what he thinks is best for Kirkwall.

Just a reminder, Sebastian only attacks Kirkwall if Anders is spared. It doesn't matter if you kick Aveline out of your party before the Chantry blew up or if no one else besides her stays there after the events of DA2. It gets attacked either way.

However if you kill Anders, Sebastian doesn't do it. That means that his actions aren't to make order in there or to do some good, people will continue doing the evil they were doing, alive or not.
It's a misplaced revenge just as Komandor said.

If Anders is killed, you get the mission Aiding Kirkwall, where Starkhaven sends troops to help rebuild and eliminate all the remaining threats in Kirkwall.

Different methods. Similar goals.

Oh, right, I forgot about Caladrius, I should play Origins again.

But I do not retract for what I said, I said (as a player, the characters have no idea that there is another ways to do so) that none of the ways to kill him is good enough, and indeed no one is, perhaps in Origins he did nothing too bad (suggesting me to do horrible things and then blaming me like it was my idea still being something I disapprove) and I said it for the things he would do if the HOF wouldn't survived and the things he would do after Origins:

He just took every amoral decision on the Darkspawn Chronicles, even worse than those the player can take because he teamed up with Rendon Howe (who is clearly worse than Loghain), he turned to be a cold blooded murderer in the comics and he kicked out the mage rebellion for something that the Venatori did. Given that the events of the comics seems to happen with every possible Alistair, unless he's dead, so, every Alistair would likely take the same dark path even on an alternative DC where he could win.

And I never saw marrying Anora as a punishment, it's the only way which he plays to be King without actually caring a crap about Ferelden, because that's Anora's job, it seems more like a reward.

And I bet that if Elthina wouldn't be within the Chantry when it blowed up, Sebastian wouldn't begin a war to "chase" Anders, both, Alistair and Sebastian just pretend to be good guys until someone messes with someone they love, then they can act like douchebags and they don't see anything wrong on what they're doing.

What horrible things?

1) The epilogue slides for exiled Alistair says there was a small rebellion in his name, easily quelled with no indicaton he was actually involved in any way, and he became a drunk in the Free Marches. Which is proven in DA2, where he loiters about The Hanged Man wallowing in misery and regret until Teagan shows up and carts him off.

2) Now. I don't remember all the details because i was never a big fan, but The Darkspawn Chronicles is a potential worse case scenario for the Blight. Most of the "evil" choices represent the path of least resistance, the quickest and easiest way to build a strong army to face the Darkspawn. Isn't that what you are advocating he do in regards to Loghain? Put aside his personal feelings and morals and do whatever is needed to end the Blight? DSC Alistair was a Warden to be commended. But damned if you do, damned if you don't, I see.

3) Yavana wanted to use his blood to bring extremely powerful and dangerous dragons back into the world. An action that could cause massive damage to innocent people everywhere, and it's a goal she would undoubtedly continue to pursue if left alive to do so.


4) Ferelden offered the mage rebellion sanctuary when no other nation was willing to take them in, a decision that hurt their relations with other countries and made their country the primary battlefield for the mage/Templar war. They did this entirely out of charity without the expectation of any reward. In thanks, the mage rebellion allied with a hostile power, allowed their citizens to be forced from their homes, overthrew the local government, and handed over Ferelden's greatest military stronghold over to the enemy without protest.

There is nothing amoral about Alistair/Anora's decision to exile traitors to their nation.

5) Unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be King, and certainly doesn't want to marry Anora, he's forced to do both and so he leaves the nation in her willing and capable hands and spends his time doing what he wishes.

Hardened Alistair becomes a damned good King with or without Anora.

He is the dumbest character ever, what did you expect? the little hypocrite is a box of inconsistencies: He complains too much about being used as a pawn, yet, he runs gladly to save Eamon, even when he has treated him worse than everyone else, he in fact, he's only considered candidate to take the crown because is Eamon's loyal dog, he could hate the Witches of the Wilds, but they were just lovely compared to Eamon. He hates blood magic, rituals and that stuff, until it's used as a mean to keep his head upon his shoulders, disapproves siding with Zathrian, while the elf is just as vengeful as him, so, there is enough evidence to take him as a dumb, hypocrite, ungrateful, sonofabitch.

6) Eamon is his early childhood father figure, a man who clothed, fed and sheltered him for the first part of his life and then ensured he'd receive all that plus a quality education and martial instruction for the second part. He made multiple attempts to see to Alistair's emotional well-being afterwards and was turned away until he finally gave up. As an illegitimate child of the King, and potential threat to his legitimate heir Alistair could have been treated much, much worse if he was allowed to live past infancy at all. And he's a candidate because he's the last known living descendant of King Calenhad.

7) Alistair knowingly chooses to have his soul obliterated by the Archdemon over the Dark Ritual unless the Warden persuades him to do otherwise. And if romanced, you can't stop him from taking the final blow and making the Ultimate Sacrifice, breaking the hearts of self-sacrificing female Wardens everywhere.

8) The original recipients of Zathrian's curse are centuries dead and the people being hurt now are innocent of any wrongdoing. Loghain is actually guilty of all the things Alistair wants him to be punished for. There is no hypocrisy there.

Hate Alistair if you wish, but try to hate him for the things he actually did and not things you made up.

[Andromelek]

But he actually did most of them.

1) I wasn't talking about that, he just doesn't have enough brains to do something like that, I was recalling "Connor is an abomination would be merciful kill him", "The better would be purge the Circle" "Buu, buu, You killed Connor a little boy!"/ "Buu, buu, You let the Arl's wife sacrifice herself with blood magic!"

3) I don't get why people still using the "Dragon Threat" as a shield for that dumb, he didn't mind it when he killed her, he just killed her because he blamed for Maric's disappearance and the Blight, There was a whole list of guilty before her, beginning with the Architect and ending with Maric himself (he did agree with Flemeth), and Yavana was willing to wait, she tried to send him back to home more than once and (perhaps indirectly) she saved him twice, she also said that there was a Great Dragon awake already and just another one sleeping, the one awake isn't bothering anyone and two dragons, no matter how big, aren't a big deal to beat up mankind, and finally, haven't you noticed? OGB Kieran is not an evil monster and there's a whole bunch of dragons who either were tamed or lived in peace with the people, their problem is barely different from wolves.

5)A Fireship burning to ashes Denerim and a country on ruins said otherwise for both.

6) Yeah, what a lovely father figure, kicking him out to the stables and then out of Redcliffe because his wife doesn't like him, the castle was big enough to keep them separate. And no, he and Cailan may have Calenhad's blood, but what really matters on a leader is it's ability to look over its people, not its bloodline. Anora is undoubtedly better than them in that matter, everyone was aware of this, Eamon just suggested that he should be the heir of the throne because he is under his command unlike Anora.

7) He is not so resilient to the Dark Ritual if romanced, on DSC he definitely took that option, and on Inquisition he realized that his behavior to the child was exaggerated.

8) Yes, Zathrian messed with innocent people, but tell me something, isn't taking the crown (and assuming the responsibility of many lives in the process) just for a minute of satisfaction the same? because playing with a lot of lives and potentially ruining them is not something much better than what Zathrian did.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Keeping order in Kirkwall is her job. She makes no attempt to see that justice is done, and in worldstates where Anders and Hawke are together and Bethany or Carver are still alive, she's actively aiding them in staying hidden.

In any case, she's just one example of a person Sebastian knows in Kirkwall that might have a lead on Anders.

Sebastian walks away instead of killing Anders because plot induced stupidity was required to allow the player to decide Anders' fate. he knew he couldn't fight Hawke if Hawke was determined to spare Anders.

And as I said earlier, it is entirely possible that he wants to hunt Anders and any of his allies to the ends if Thedas, while also sincerely trying to do what he thinks is best for Kirkwall.

 

Again mages are under templar jurisdiction not kirkwall guards , so no it isn't her job to deal and judge mages only templars (and they gave permission to deal with it to hawke).So avoiding fact that i don't know anything about helping anders hide after chantry incident again in few world states aveline wasn't by any mean associate with Anders and in every world state she isn't anymore ,so pretty much it haves no point as long there is even 1 word state where aveline wasn't anders associate.

 

So sebastian attacks kirkwall because aveline may have lead on Anders avoiding it what is simpe wrong again as aveline could have cut off her ties with Anders as well with hawke (same could have been done by hawke) , this would show he is nothing more than madman. 

 

It doesn't matter in that disscusion, even if hawke letting tallis go away was outright retarded hawke still did it and again i didn't saw my hawke protecting anders unless they decided work together.So yes if that makes aveline guilty ,sebastian is as guilty.

 

I have already proved that isn't in case with above (again even 1 secnario where aveline wasn't anders associate proves that) , also again nope as his threats from get go toward entire kirwkall not blood mages (avoiding fact that mages left or got killed) and anders associates only whole kirkwall show.

[Deztyn]

1) Seriously?

That's your complaint?

Before any other solution for Connor is presented, he'll say, "I wouldn't normally suggest slaying a child, but... he's an abomination. I'm not sure there's any choice." He is not insisting on his death no matter what. He doesn't know there are any other options yet. When blood magic is brought up he says, "Blood magic. How can more evil be of any help here? Two wrongs don't make a right." He clearly doesn't approve of that answer. Aside from his hatred of blood magic, killing one member of the Arl's family to save another is NOT a winning solution. Of course, he doesn't approve.

In the Circle, when the annulment is brought up, but before finding Irving alive is presented as a possibility he says, "The mages are probably already dead. Any abominations remaining in there must be dealt with no matter what." Once he knows there are mages alive and the Circle can be spared if you find Irving, he prefers that choice.

Alistair isn't the problem here. You seem to have difficulty understanding context.

3) Right. Alistair is an evil bastard for not knowing things he didn't know.

People use the Dragon Threat because it is a real concern. Being a manipulative witch of dubious moral character with extremely questionable intentions and a lot of power with an interest in using him to achieve her goals is reason enough to kill her.

6) Alistair's treatment was far, far superior to what a real orphaned child of a servant would recieve. Which is why he was believed to be Eamon's. If he had been Eamon's bastard than he was a potential threat to Connor and any children Isolde might have. Eamon didn't tell her the truth, and much as I despise the woman, her suspicion and dislike were warranted.

Sending him to a monastery may seem harsh, but it was hardly uncommon in the real world for legitimate younger sons of noble families to be sent off to join the clergy, and the Trevelyans and Vaels both do the same thing in the Dragon Age world. And Eamon tried to keep a relationship with him after, Alistair made that impossible.

5.2, 6.2) Ha. You claim Anora is a great Queen, Alistair is a terrible king. And the only concrete examples you provide use events that occur under them both whether as individuals or a team.

If Anora is sole ruler her codex entry suggests that people are concerned she has no heir and she's lost public support after the Redcliffe debacle, while Alistair's doesn't mention heirs or Redcliffe at all but mentions he had some past difficulties because people doubted his parentage.

Neither has a completely trouble free reign. But that doesn't mean that either is a poor ruler. Recovering from the Blight isn't easy, and no ruler can make the lands heal after they're tainted by ordering it to happen, other areas afflicted haven't recovered after centuries. Nor can they close the Breach or eliminate the Venatori on their own.

Your original point was that Alistair is a poor King. If he is than Anora is also a poor Queen and not a superior ruler.

6.3) Eamon is a royalist. He wants Alistair on the throne because Alistair is a Theirin and Anora is a commoner whose only claim is by marriage. It's that simple.

7) Yes, because the Dark Ritual wasn't already awkward enough, what with being gender biased, morally dubious, with massively uncomfortable issues of consent, they decided to also add the option for a romanced Warden to use emotional blackmail at its finest. "You'd do it if you really, really loved me!" He will still choose to reject the Dark Ritual if you allow him to, offering his own soul to spare the Warden's and still has doubts even after persuaded. He doesn't jump at the chance to save his own skin without reservation as you claimed.

8) No.


"The worst of the mage rebellion is now past. However, the mage who started it all, who destroyed the Chantry in Kirkwall and murdered Grand Cleric Elthina and dozens of the innocent faithful, is still at large. The fanatic Anders must be brought to justice. Though he may no longer be in the city, it is still home to many of his known associates. I thus resolved to invade Kirkwall to locate Anders. But Starkhaven's annexation of this notoriously troubled city has not proceeded as planned. The city's resistance opposes me. They forget that I do this for the good of the city and all the Free Marches. As a staunch ally of the Inquisition, I entreat support for this endeavor, that Kirkwall may be brought under control before more innocents are harmed."

Emphasis mine.

Could be lying, but when you consider the totality of Sebastian's character and not just the parts you dislike, as well as the current situation in Kirkwall, I see no reason to dismiss his message entirely.

[MadMadCarl]

Now, how is that this thread came to be this long? bombing cities and killing people is BAD enough itself, is even worse destroying a city to bother a terrorist that clearly doesn't care and is gone long ago while selling the excuse of "providing order", and killing people, mostly based on legends and the experience with its family is basically a blind murder, not all people are the same.

 

Why don't you guys accept it? Sebastian and Alistair are craps big enough to be compared with Meredith and Lambert.

[TheKomandorShepard]

"The worst of the mage rebellion is now past. However, the mage who started it all, who destroyed the Chantry in Kirkwall and murdered Grand Cleric Elthina and dozens of the innocent faithful, is still at large. The fanatic Anders must be brought to justice. Though he may no longer be in the city, it is still home to many of his known associates. I thus resolved to invade Kirkwall to locate Anders. But Starkhaven's annexation of this notoriously troubled city has not proceeded as planned. The city's resistance opposes me. They forget that I do this for the good of the city and all the Free Marches. As a staunch ally of the Inquisition, I entreat support for this endeavor, that Kirkwall may be brought under control before more innocents are harmed."

Emphasis mine.

Could be lying, but when you consider the totality of Sebastian's character and not just the parts you dislike, as well as the current situation in Kirkwall, I see no reason to dismiss his message entirely.

 

Wait was that part directed to me?

If so i have provided plenty of reasons to dismiss it from part about associates to "helping kirkwall" when pretty much he gave away his intentions of revenge on kirkwall because you spared anders from get go in da 2 , and then again there is fact the only factor that makes him attack kirkwall is sparing Anders and it is pretty much telling. 

[George-Kinsill]

While I realize that we can only guess at Sebastian's methods and intentions in his invasion, one way to determine whether what he is doing is just is to determine if he meets the criteria for "just war." While some might argue this is a paradox, it is a concept developed in the late medieval ages by St. Thomas Aquinas. Given the age of the doctrine and its religious basis, it is possible to reasonably try to match this to Sebastian's effort, especially given that he is supposed to be a servant of Thedas's equivalent of Christianity. There are six criteria to just war:

 

1. Just Cause: Attempting to right or prevent wrongs by (a) protecting people from aggression (defensive war), ( restoring rights unjustly taken away and © restoring a just political order. 
2. Just authority: The decision is made by the accepted leaders of the nation, with the intent of war being to benefit the common good, not private interests. The leader must also give the reasons of going to war with the people.
3. Last Resort: Every single other less violent alternative like diplomacy or targeted raids have been exhausted. The choice comes to wither backing down or war.
4. Proportionality: Going to war is not just if the costs outweigh the benefits. A just war requires a problem so large that only the mobilization of a nation's army can cure it. Going after single individuals or small/medium groups. The problem must be in some way societal/national.
5. Reasonable chance of success: Is there a credible chance that the war will achieve the purpose of justice mentioned in point #1? Military victory in and of itself is not the basis, rather the protection from aggression, toppling tyranny, restoring rights, etc.
6. Right Intention: Any war done out of hatred, vengeance, fear, demonization of the enemy, will quickly betray the purposes of justice. Therefore, the intent must be out of charity, self sacrifice and love.

- Summa Theologica, St. Thomas Aquinas 

 

As a reminder, this is not meant to spark a debate on religion, only provide some reasonable criteria to which to hold a brother of the chantry who strives to be a pious and virtuous man.

 

So does he meet these criteria? It is hard to know his true feelings given the time that passed from DA2. However, it is possible to make informed guesses.

 

1. The criteria is not met for a defensive war or restoring rights. Restoring rights might have been a cause had Sebastian rallied Starkhaven to overthrow Meredith's tyranny and restore the nobles to power. I doubt that he meets point c as well given that he wants to "annex" Kirkwall. A just cause appears dubious.
2. He is the leader of Starkhaven now by blood and did overthrow his idiotic cousin. He does not appear to be keeping secrets from his subjects, so it is fair to believe that he has the just authority.
3. There is little evidence that he used war as a last resort. As has been mentioned, Sebastian can and does give charitable aid if Anders is killed. We have not really heard of evidence that he engaged in diplomacy with the city to overturn Anders or other apostates, though lack of evidence does not prove the counterpoint. However, given that Sebastian immediately threatens to destroy Kirkwall if Anders is allowed to live, it is reasonable to believe that peace is not on his mind. 
4. Little reason exists to believe that Sebastian's response is proportional. He is after one man, Anders and possibly some of Hawke's companions. If this is the case, then targeted raids would be appropriate if Kirkwall has been reluctant to give up apostates and Hawke's companions. We also know for certain, though, that Anders is not in Kirkwall. To go after and entire only tangentially related city in order to go after one man is not proportional. An objection may be that its possible that Kirkwall fell to maleficarum or some other sort, similar to Redcliffe. However, even in the case of Redcliffe a special ops mission with some backing by Ferelden forces solved the problem with relative ease. On this point it is again dubious.
5. Reasonable chance of success largely depends on subjectivity. We know that Sebastian believes in predetermination and that he is the servant of the maker, so its fair to believe that he believes that he will right the wrongs of Kirkwall. However, given that Sebastian does not have enough forces to take the city without the aid of the inquisition and that he has no clear mission, this point is another one up for debate.
6. As for Sebastian's motivations, we do not know for certain. At the end of DA2, it is fairly clear that he wants revenge plain and simple. He demonizes mages and thinks them a blight on Kirkwall, if Anders lives. It is possible that he mellowed since the events of DA2 and as he mentions in the letter. However, it is unlikely that he would blatantly state that he is waging war for hatred in a letter, so we only know for certain that at one point in time that Sebastian's intent was out of vengeance.

Given all of this, it is hard to argue that Sebastian's cause is just according to just war doctrine. We need more information. Given that just war has largely not been adhered to in world history, this doesn't make Sebastian a tyrant on par with the likes of fascist dictators, only a flawed human being that most likely gave into the lust for revenge.  

[Master Warder Z_]

Suuuuuure demonize "fascism" but leave its leftie cousins alone.

Ya know the side with the much bigger body count

[Andromelek]

Now, how is that this thread came to be this long? bombing cities and killing people is BAD enough itself, is even worse destroying a city to bother a terrorist that clearly doesn't care and is gone long ago while selling the excuse of "providing order", and killing people, mostly based on legends and the experience with its family is basically a blind murder, not all people are the same.
 
Why don't you guys accept it? Sebastian and Alistair are craps big enough to be compared with Meredith and Lambert.

People just can't/don't want to accept that their "heroes" (or perhaps their favourite characters) are as bad as the other guys, while Alistair and Sebastian have their zealot fans using whatever excuse they have to make their bad actions look pretty, people hate Oghren to death for being a dirty drunk, who understands people?

I would say that Lambert is better than them, he had more real reasons to do what he did, his job was prevent the world (and mostly the incompetent Chantry) from tear themselves apart he didn't use the best means to do so, but that was his job, Alistair's and Sebastian's arses were meant to be sitting on a throne away from Kirkwall or Antiva.

[The Baconer]

I would say that Lambert is better than them, he had more real reasons to do what he did, his job was prevent the world (and mostly the incompetent Chantry) from tear themselves apart he didn't use the best means to do so, but that was his job,

 

How could he better if he accomplished the exact opposite of his given duty?

[TheKomandorShepard]

How could he better if he accomplished the exact opposite of his given duty?

Only because divine caused war by freeing mages and turned against templars ,if she didn't Lambert would have prevent it.

 

 

Also i don't get why people put Alistair into same bag that they put Sebastian , Alistair wanted revenge against guy who wronged him if you refuse to kill loghain he will leave (of course that still makes him quite hypocritical after all his talk about grey wardens doing what they have to) and that is about it  ,when sebastian pretty much not only left but targeted entire city just because guy who wronged him used to live in that city.  

[Andromelek]

How could he better if he accomplished the exact opposite of his given duty?

He tried to do his job, he only changed and began to take ruthless ways to keep order after being double crossed twice by the same Magister.

[The Baconer]

He tried to do his job, he only changed and began to take ruthless ways to keep order after being double crossed twice by the same Magister.

 

Yes, the only thing he ever managed to do in life was be an unwitting asset to Tevinter twice. You don't get a medal for "trying" in a position of authority like his.

[MadMadCarl]

 

 

Also i don't get why people put Alistair into same bag that they put Sebastian , Alistair wanted revenge against guy who wronged him if you refuse to kill loghain he will leave (of course that still makes him quite hypocritical after all his talk about grey wardens doing what they have to) and that is about it  ,when sebastian pretty much not only left but targeted entire city just because guy who wronged him used to live in that city.  

Because they hate mages, only get the crown to fulfill their mindless revenge, hurt innocents and hide under a sanctimonious' mask did I miss something?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because they hate mages, only get the crown to fulfill their mindless revenge, hurt innocents and hide under a sanctimonious' mask did I miss something?

LoL, you know that Alistair harbored rebel mages (and as revealed in da 2 if he was king he did it before mage-templar war as well) until those screwd him over. Alistair revenge wasn't mindless as in first place he wanted revenge on person that wronged him and only on that person ,and i don't recall hurting "innocents" part.

[MadMadCarl]

He is more prepotent to end the things on a violent way if its about a mage, and about innocents harmed, I believe thats the why on the darkspawn chronicles and yevana debate up there ^^the other things, I believe they match.

[TheKomandorShepard]

He is more prepotent to end the things on a violent way if its about a mage, and about innocents harmed, I believe thats the why on the darkspawn chronicles and yevana debate up there ^^the other things, I believe they match.

Didn't notice that pretty much sure that he argues against killing mages in broken circle and even cost you his approval if you do that.As for what he did in DC it is AU and yep he did there not very nice things but then we don't know much about DC alistair ,his mindset and motivations , when yevana was far from innocent she was quite manipulative and had questionable goal.

 

His is actions are far from somone that hates mages ,in first place why person that hate mages would harbor them and give them protection.  

 

Even Sebastian doesn't necessarily hates mages as It depends on with who hawke sided if he sided with mages and sebastian stays he will support mages.

[Andromelek]

He may be recognized that Meredith was insane, that's why he accepted Kirkwall's mages, but the gross of the rebellion is lead by Fiona, he maybe ignores that she is his mother, but pretty sure he knows that she was one of Duncan's and Maric's best friends, have the mages been led by someone else, or have Alistair known she was his mother, things would be different.