103 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

People also need to point out what abilities actually hinder their team mates, such as firestorm and firewall.  Make your list of 5 things it does great then add drawback, teammates can't see for shi*.  (Not saying this in response to the builds in this thread but more as a general note.)

[Robbiesan]

Thanks for the write up Yallegro.  I have yet to play NM, but will keep in mind your advice.

[yarpenthemad21]

Forgot to reply to this one: Veilstrike does inflict sleep at tier2 AND weakness. But the conditions for sleep to take effect are "wily" ,need to update on that one

I've explained mechanic of this some time a go, still I will do it one more time. I've tested it multiple times and this is how this works:

1. Shocked status (from CL for example, also static cage applies it, worth mentioning) need to be on target.
2. If target is shocked and something applies on target weakened status (veilstrike for example) this weakened is "changed"/"transmuted" into sleep. Target also get 100 damage for this.
End result? Target is still shocked (shock end with normal duration) but it isn't weakened. Instead is put on sleep.
If target can't be set on sleep, but isn't immune to shocked and weakened (dragon, terror demon) after instead of getting sleep you would get "immune" on screen and 100 damage.

As for the builds.
Keeper is strange, ele also.
AW is pretty much "I'm standing here to look fabulous". His damage sucks, on NM with this setup even more.

For the AW I would use SB less build. CL, Stone fist, dispel and whatever 4 (PoTA, fade cloak, depends on role and other party members really).
Potential for nightmare combos, some knockdown and quite useful on NM dispel.

[nibyl]

-Arcane is just fine for nightmare, especially with scepter of Razikale, a bit slow on the dps though. Ya I should consider more teamplay options like Abyss Pull, most of my builds are centered around the "be ready to do it all yourself principle"

Like I said, only thing he has going for him is pull of the abyss. I'm just saying he's not good at dealing damage and he has worse cc and support than keeper or ele. So I don't see the point of the class in general, but I guess that would be another discussion entirely.

[Laxleon]

I get more breathing room from Fade Cloak then casting Barrier on everyone 2 seconds later

 

 

Well the point of Firestorm is, that everyone in your team gets more room to breath, because 90% of the enemies are lying on the ground, mumbling "Wow, Feredeln Castle's floor is really dirty...." instead of "Oh look there, a tasty little magician, let's rape his ass!" ^^

 

-I do like the idea of Disruption Field so it is definitely off the why not to get list for Nightmare, still: delayed acquisition of Gathering Storm which so enhances Static Cage and Barrier and you can kiss Veilstrike + Restorative Veil goodbye

 

Yeah, Static Cage is faaaaaaar better, boosting dps of the whole group by almost 50% (if the enemies is not lightning resistant) and trapping them is just great. Barrier is an absolute must; I saw a lv 20 keeper once, never casting any barrier on anybody. Hope this guy just stopped playing DAI.

I play the Keeper as a "pure support" character, with no, I mean really NO offensive skills, completely relying on the dps of my team. Usually i go with:

Barrier, Dispel, Static Cage, Disruption Field

Unfortunately I am not able to get Gathering Storm this way (it's simply way too far below.....), but I don't really need it anyways. Mana Surge is great for mana management, if you are just very careful and precise with your barrier casting, refreshing it right after it expires on you.

[Wavebend]

Yallegro you should buy DAMP on PC and roll some heartbreaker with us. It's clear you put a ton of effort into writing these guides but I unfortunately still disagree with a lot of stuff I read Still some good information though.

[nibyl]

I play the Keeper as a "pure support" character, with no, I mean really NO offensive skills, completely relying on the dps of my team. Usually i go with:

Barrier, Dispel, Static Cage, Disruption Field

And it's freaking great, we should do some reaver + keeper dragon runs again sometime. I'm getting bored grinding the avvar to 250 completions (still 100 to go!)

[Yallegro]

Yallegro you should buy DAMP on PC and roll some heartbreaker with us. It's clear you put a ton of effort into writing these guides but I unfortunately still disagree with a lot of stuff I read

 I'd have to buy a new computer to run it :-/

 

Ya know it doesn't help me if people  say "something's wrong" then point out nothing specific

 

I have no real issues seeing through Wall of Fire, didn't know people had that issue

 

Yarpen: are you sure that only works on shocked? I thought I saw the same things happen for my ele but that could've been my teammates applying shocked. 

[yarpenthemad21]

Yarpen: are you sure that only works on shocked? I thought I saw the same things happen for my ele but that could've been my teammates applying shocked.

Sure.
Shocked + Weakened = Shocked + Sleep + 100 damage.
This is the formula.

Stormbring I think applies shocked also, maybe it is this.
Also Electic staff at the end of chain applies shocked.

[nibyl]

"Bear Mauls the Wolves passive: Only effects some melee attacks from the front, disregarding special attacks and archer staggers."

 

What melee attacks are those? I remember Luke saying that ranged attacks don't have a flanking bonus and therefore are unaffected by BMTW, but I assumed all melee attacks have a flanking bonus. How did you test it and would you mind posting the results? Would be some good info.

[T_elic]

It's part of the PS4 OS. You'll find it under settings>accessibility, something like that. You can even enable and disable the remapping on the fly while a game is running.

 

Ah damn, i keep forgetting about that feature. Thanks for the heads up, i'll give it a try.

[Wavebend]

Sure.
Shocked + Weakened = Shocked + Sleep + 100 damage.
This is the formula.

Stormbring I think applies shocked also, maybe it is this.
Also Electic staff at the end of chain applies shocked.

 

Stormbringer doesn't apply shocked

 

I'll just copy/paste this from my guide

 

2. Sources of Shocked:

• Chain Lightning, Static Cage, Energy Barrage (lightning only), Elemental Mines
• Shocked can also be caused by using an Impact or Precision detonator on Paralyzed enemies in that order only.

Note for static cage. Without the upgrade, SC will shock if the enemy attempts to escape it. Upgraded SC: Attacking an enemy in SC will shock it, and if the enemy attempts to leave then it also shocks it

 

Sleep can also naturally occur with the AW with the 5% weaken chance (Disturbance of spirit)

 

 

 Yarpen: are you sure that only works on shocked? I thought I saw the same things happen for my ele but that could've been my teammates applying shocked. 

 

If you happen to have Lightning Bolt or Static charge then it can occur

[Drasca]

People also need to point out what abilities actually hinder their team mates, such as firestorm and firewall.  Make your list of 5 things it does great then add drawback, teammates can't see for shi*.  (Not saying this in response to the builds in this thread but more as a general note.)

 

LOL Beerfish doesn't like Vorcha flamers either, but they're clearly effective. FW/FStorm is the best Area Denial  combo out there, covering CC for the vast majority of mobs. There's only a very small number of enemies that are not vulnerable to either panick or knockdown, and they're easily isolated with FW/FStm around.

 

"Hinder teammates" They're not teammmates. They're bad players that don't want to win. Good riddance.

 

I've explained mechanic of this some time a go

As for the builds.

 

Get used to repeating yourself when you have guides.

 

Immolate still sucks and needs to be replaced with anything better. Firestorm and Firewall is the basic Area Denial combo that works fantastic, enabling everything else to work better.

 

FC is fair. I prefer Chaotic Fire Mine though.

 

Stormbringer doesn't apply shocked

 

Actually, it does. Your guide is incomplete. It won't take too long for you to sit down with an avvar and stormbringer, and watch enemies get shocked. Five minutes tops, and 30 seconds or less if you're already in game.

[Wavebend]

Actually, it does. Your guide is incomplete. It won't take too long for you to sit down with an avvar and stormbringer, and watch enemies get shocked. Five minutes tops, and 30 seconds or less if you're already in game.

 

In testing I had it on my AW and triggered it on mooks, none of them got shocked. Is there something I'm missing?

[Drasca]

In testing I had it on my AW and triggered it on mooks, none of them got shocked. Is there something I'm missing?

 

Weird. That said, you are missing the fact that abilities on different kits aren't actually exactly the same. Time to message in origin to explore further.

[Yallegro]

"Bear Mauls the Wolves passive: Only effects some melee attacks from the front, disregarding special attacks and archer staggers."

 

What melee attacks are those? I remember Luke saying that ranged attacks don't have a flanking bonus and therefore are unaffected by BMTW, but I assumed all melee attacks have a flanking bonus. How did you test it and would you mind posting the results? Would be some good info.

 

I just copied that from Luke, if I wanted to test Bear Mauls the Wolves I'd let myself get by a wolf, they seem to stagger. Could it apply to the Venatori Brute knockdowns?

[Wavebend]

Actually, it does. Your guide is incomplete. It won't take too long for you to sit down with an avvar and stormbringer, and watch enemies get shocked. Five minutes tops, and 30 seconds or less if you're already in game.

 

Results of testing:

 

Stormbringer on AW: Doesn't shock

Stormbringer on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Lady's Wrath on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Electric smash (Korth's might): Shocks!!

[Proto]

Stormbringer doesn't apply shocked

 

Actually, it does. Your guide is incomplete. It won't take too long for you to sit down with an avvar and stormbringer, and watch enemies get shocked. Five minutes tops, and 30 seconds or less if you're already in game.

 

In testing I had it on my AW and triggered it on mooks, none of them got shocked. Is there something I'm missing?

 

Weird. That said, you are missing the fact that abilities on different kits aren't actually exactly the same. Time to message in origin to explore further.

 

 

Results of testing:

 

Stormbringer on AW: Doesn't shock

Stormbringer on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Lady's Wrath on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Electric smash (Korth's might): Shocks!!

 

[Pork]

Results of testing:

 

Stormbringer on AW: Doesn't shock

Stormbringer on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Lady's Wrath on Avvar: Doesn't shock

Electric smash (Korth's might): Shocks!!

 

Thunderdome? 

[Yallegro]

Behold,

 

Spoiler brackets on everything

 

also added the missing how to use to necro and lee

 

Now to try nightmare

[Beerfish]

LOL Beerfish doesn't like Vorcha flamers either, but they're clearly effective. FW/FStorm is the best Area Denial  combo out there, covering CC for the vast majority of mobs. There's only a very small number of enemies that are not vulnerable to either panick or knockdown, and they're easily isolated with FW/FStm around.

 

"Hinder teammates" They're not teammmates. They're bad players that don't want to win. Good riddance.

 

 

What in gods name are you talking about?  Vorcha flamers are very effective as are all flamers, one of the best abilities in the game.

 

Firestorm and Firewall are very effective, two of the best abilities in the game.

 

All of these also blind your melee, casters and archers.  It's a simple truth.  Is the net benefit higher with those abilities than not?  Probably, does it have a negative effect on team mates ability to use their abilities better?  100% for sure.

 

You can see targeting crosses amongst the flames but you can't always see what the opponent is.  Those abilities have a draw back and that draw back should be noted in any build guide. 

 

We have a lot of build guides around here that are very good but almost all of them focus on 'my character' what is best for me.  Not necessarily what is best for a group as a whole.

[akots1]

I just copied that from Luke, if I wanted to test Bear Mauls the Wolves I'd let myself get by a wolf, they seem to stagger. Could it apply to the Venatori Brute knockdowns?

BMtW does not apply to knock downs iirc. IMO, it might be that the stagger part is not working at all as it is quite hard to test. Certainly wolves and dogs do stagger paying little attention to BMtW but it might be their special ability when they run through you and thus it is not affected. The melee flanking damage reduction clearly works though and greatly increases chance of surviving surprise shadow or stalker attack.

[Yallegro]

What in gods name are you talking about?  Vorcha flamers are very effective as are all flamers, one of the best abilities in the game.

 

Firestorm and Firewall are very effective, two of the best abilities in the game.

 

All of these also blind your melee, casters and archers.  It's a simple truth.  Is the net benefit higher with those abilities than not?  Probably, does it have a negative effect on team mates ability to use their abilities better?  100% for sure.

 

You can see targeting crosses amongst the flames but you can't always see what the opponent is.  Those abilities have a draw back and that draw back should be noted in any build guide. 

 

We have a lot of build guides around here that are very good but almost all of them focus on 'my character' what is best for me.  Not necessarily what is best for a group as a whole.

 

As i already mentioned I have no issues seeing through Wall of Fire

 

Certainly the view is obscured a little, but the thin guy is an archer right, and the big guy is a brute and the back hooded guy is the mage.

 

During all of that you can still use the minimap to judge enemy numbers

 

It may create a drawback for some but it is not going to be 100% and I'm sure the people who can't see through it won't use it and the rest probably won't care either way

[K_A_Rnage]

Awful builds. No payback strike on lego, no TTD on katari, no firestorm on elementalist, no fade step/cloak on necromancer, spirit blade on aw, veilstrike on keeper.

The reaver is the only good build here and its been covered several times on this forum.

Do you even play nightmare? Can you post some nightmare gameplay? In your previous thread i asked you to post gameplay but you didnt respond.

Also all mages are resistant to their own element. Not just fire.

So Pork,
Where Is your Nightmare guide?
And why is it you think the rest of the BSN crowd wants to listen to your selfrighteous, tryhard vitriol?
The guy obviously spent days compiling and writing HIS thread and you spent several seconds condemning it without providing any proof and making selfish demands. Where's your thread of videos?
Comments like these are not appreciated in any way shape or form and offer no advice or constructive argument to any of us.
There's trolling and then there's just being a rude little prik.

 

Apologies to the OP for derailing. Your efforts are appreciated

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Spoiler brackets on everything

 

Looks a ton better! I'd honestly add even more if I were you. Seriously, in the future, never underestimate the power of those spoiler tags. That way. a reader can expand just the information they want and browse much easier. DragonRacer can attest to that power with her stickied topic.