Because I dont care about religion at all, the only thing I want the Chantry to do is to keep the mages in the Circle.Vivienne does nothing to curtail the chantry's corruption or its racism. Why is the Mage issue the only reason people choose her?
Vivienne does nothing to curtail the chantry's corruption or its racism. Why is the Mage issue the only reason people choose her?
Only Leliana does anything about racism, and even then, she still does nothing about its sexism. As for corruption, that's hard to rout out. Considering all three destroy elements that oppose, I'm not sure you're telling the truth.
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Vivienne does nothing to curtail the chantry's corruption or its racism. Why is the Mage issue the only reason people choose her?
Personally I think Cassandra is the most balanced choice of the two, she keeps the circles and the order and does more to help the needy.
Really? Tell me where Vivienne says she is going to change how the chantry treats non-humans of how she is going to make the chantry focused on helping the poor.Only Leliana does anything about racism, and even then, she still does nothing about its sexism. As for corruption, that's hard to rout out. Considering all three destroy elements that oppose, I'm not sure you're telling the truth.
Because I dont care about religion at all, the only thing I want the Chantry to do is to keep the mages in the Circle.
And you dont know what she and the others candidates or not do with the corruption in the Chantry.
Leliana makes the chantry dedicated to charity, Cassandra says she is going to make the chantry dedicated to charity, Vivienne never says anything like that. She thinks the chantry was fine as is which says a lot given that we see the chantry is corrupt
Vivienne does nothing to curtail the chantry's corruption or its racism. Why is the Mage issue the only reason people choose her?
...What corruption? I mean I suppose there is corruption in the Chantry since every large institution has it, but I don't see much in the way of indications that the Chantry is endemically corrupt. The big issue is the Chantry's mismanagement of the mages and the Templars. And do any of the candidates do much about the matter of elves that we know of?
Leliana says she will open the priesthood to all races, but its strange because we already saw non-human in the Chantry like brother Burkel....What corruption? I mean I suppose there is corruption in the Chantry since every large institution has it, but I don't see much in the way of indications that the Chantry is endemically corrupt. The big issue is the Chantry's mismanagement of the mages and the Templars. And do any of the candidates do much about the matter of elves that we know of?
Leliana says she will open the priesthood to all races, but its strange because we already saw non-human in the Chantry like brother Burkel.
Burkel was a lay brother missionary.
Burkel was a lay brother missionary.
Or he was retconned into not existing anymore given that inquisition seems to enjoy retconning things to prove a point
Well, the choice to help Burkel is recorded in the Keep, as is sending Mardy and her child there if you chose to do so. So I guess he hasn't been completely retconned out.
Burkel was a lay brother missionary.
Yes he was, how this dispprove what I said?
Burkel was a lay brother missionary.
Leliana wouldn't change that, the highest rank Burkel could obtain in the chantry was Brother any ways on account of being a man. Has nothing to do with him being a dwarf.
Leliana wouldn't change that, the highest rank Burkel could obtain in the chantry was Brother any ways on account of being a man. Has nothing to do with him being a dwarf.
Chantry corruption mostly resides around 2 groups, Tenplars and the Dalish. If you don't care about these 2 it's pretty hard to care about the corruption in general.
The sexism issue can't be solved by any divine, the developers took that option out.
It's actually fun to read some of your posts. I know you guys love debating and stuff.. Even if I'm an avid Vivi supporter.. I do understand most of you don't share any of her view point and stuff. But the way you guys describe this whole situation is kinda of ridiculous sometimes...
Especially the chantry part, or the non-humans not being allowed in the chantry or Cassandra reforming the chantry. Whatever. If you guys have noticed throughout Dragon age, neither Leliana or Cassandra make decisions for themselves at all. They always wait for approval from someone before they commit to the issue. That for me sound really stupid hence I don't support any of them for Sunburst throne.
On one hand, you see Leliana, immature way of thinking, the way she dream-talk about things sounds very childish sometimes and she is always depending on someone. "Ohh, this guy bite me, I will pay him back, how should we proceed Inquisitor". On the other hand, you see Cassandra. Different background same way of thinking but she doesn't make decisiones by herself either. She only take action and that's it, still depending on someone's decision before she take action..
And my queen Vivienne, well.... I can't be any more proud of how her character was made. I don't give the **** the chantry, the poor people, the ancient elves... All I want is everything back to normal quick and still functioning. Any mistake must be dealt with immediately... She is not even depending on you, or the dead Andraste, nor wasted Duke Bastien nor the Maker himself from the Black city. See, I see this in someone and that smart person takes my full support. She's exactly like my mother. "I get my money, before I share them to my children... I buy my self expensive clothes, a new mansion and a good staff, while the rest feed of the little bits left". Period. "Cie est la vie". If you want to survie do it on your own. Don't wait for someone to come lift you up if there is no other way.. That's is why people kill each other and suicide everyday.
Everybody want things they themselves can not get and the only way to do that is to reduce other people to their low "stance" to get what they want. I don't support this at all.
P.S. Sareabs... Don't get dead.
Yes he was, how this dispprove what I said?
His existence does not prove the existence of nonhuman priests because he is not a priest. He's in the same category as Chancellor Roderick.
But was he an official lay brother or an andrastian dwarf who just decided to make his own chantry?
He was wearing the uniform. He could have been an imposter but really we have no reason to think so.
Chantry corruption mostly resides around 2 groups, Tenplars and the Dalish. If you don't care about these 2 it's pretty hard to care about the corruption in general.
The sexism issue can't be solved by any divine, the developers took that option out.
"Corruption" is kind of a vague term and not really applicable to official organizational policies that exist to serve that organization's goals. I'd say "oppression" instead. As for the Templar issue, it was pretty much rendered a non-issue when the Chantry lost control over the Templars. As long as the Inquisition exists, any Templars who serve the Chantry itself do so by choice. The Dalish issue is an inevitable outgrowth of the Chantry's central doctrine. It's simply unavoidable.
Really? Tell me where Vivienne says she is going to change how the chantry treats non-humans of how she is going to make the chantry focused on helping the poor.
I don't think you read what I wrote. I didn't say either of those things. I said Vivienne destroys corruption.
Only if you sided with the mages.
I don't side with people, I make them mine.
Of course, if you pursue the Templars instead, how many Libertarians would even be left alive to rebel?
Thats not how it works, see Steeled Leliana, killing your enemies work very well.
There is a couple big differences between a hardened Leliana and Vivienne's methods of retaining order as Divine. The main one being though is that there is a huge difference between killing your political rivals in a case by case basis and systematically killing everyone who might be or become your political rival.
No its better to allow them all ti gather and then kill them all. Vivienne need to bring stability Abd show to the mudane she will not tolerate another rebellion, so this action is necessary.
You can't kill an idea. As I said before, if she killed the Libertarians in mass, it would only push all the future subscribers to mage freedom and autonomy underground, and it would slowly turn the other fraternities against her because she's killing her own people for simply thinking a thought out loud. Then Vivienne would have to deal with a shadowy group of unknown mages working against her that would quickly turn more and more fanatically with each additional death by her hands.
I would actually argue that Vivienne experience is closer to the norm than Anders.
At least in Ferelden, it doesn't seem like mages actually need Templars around to leave the circle...Wynne simply walked up and said "I'm leaving". Ines didn't have anyone with her and Finn, not a senior enchanter I should add, simply says "I'm going with the wardens...be back soon". Even in the original game, you run across a senior enchanter with students out showing them magic and nary a Templar around.
Orlais seems to be the same way as evidenced by Vivienne, Isolde's grandfather and others mentioned in things like World of Thedas.
Neverra seems to be the same given that Cassandra was raised by her mage uncle.
Rivain, before the mage Templar war was noted to be the most lenient/permissive of the circles.....
Not sure why people are discounting Vivienne's experience.
As an adie, I don't think anyone in Orlais makes a stink about being a mistress (and its mentioned other nations are similar in world of thedas). I for example, you bring Leliana with you to the winter palace, depending on your romantic choices from DA:O, she will get announced publicly as the mistress of the queen or king o Ferelden.
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The bird who got to leave the cage doesn't get to say that all birds belong in cages, as far as I'm concerned.
When she volunteers to go back to living in the Circle, shed all her privileges and luxuries (like living in her noble lover's mansion, making appearances at lavish parties and court, playing The Game and so on), and live with most of the same restrictions and abuses that most other Circle mages have to live with, then I'll start taking her stance seriously.
Between Wynne and Vivienne, have you noticed that the same mages who most advocate other mages going to the Circle are the ones who never stay in the Circles themselves when they can avoid it?
I'm surprised anyone can even read so much into Vivienne's writing as to write 4 paragraphs about it. She's an incredibly shallow and one-note character, completely transparent IMO and not in a good way.
The bird who got to leave the cage doesn't get to say that all birds belong in cages, as far as I'm concerned.
When she volunteers to go back to living in the Circle, shed all her privileges and luxuries (like living in her noble lover's mansion, making appearances at lavish parties and court, playing The Game and so on), and live with most of the same restrictions and abuses that most other Circle mages have to live with, then I'll start taking her stance seriously.
Between Wynne and Vivienne, have you noticed that the same mages who most advocate other mages going to the Circle are the ones who never stay in the Circles themselves when they can avoid it?
Why punch up?
Instead, wouldn't it make it easier for mages to have the kind of privileges Vivienne enjoyed?
Who says most mages suffered abuses and harsh restrictions? Bethany in the Circle says things aren't as bad as she feared. Finn didn't want to leave the Circle. I would dare to say the numbers of mages that chafe beneath the rules vs the ones content to live under them is fairly close to even.
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