Ofc I did, you just don't want to see it.
OK, now you are desperate. No proof to back up what you are saying.
No you didn't, you even admited that aveline wasn't so well...
You are one as far desperate by this point all you can do is throw general statements that i have no proof ,boy all you need to do is look up definitions of word corruption and also read about legal corruption.
i agree with much of what you are saying, but I do have to say that I think that Vivienne has always had her eye on the Sunburst Throne. I have always read that scene as her feigning shock, but really have just set you up to put her name forward (exactly what she wants) while thinking it was your idea to do so. Particularly if you give the "I think mages have a place in the Chantry" dialogue option earlier. Her response to that, combined with her 'surprise' when you suggest her, just paints a great example of her playing the game. It's subtle and, certainly, open for interpretation, but it's how I like to see that scene, personally.
So basically you're accusing Vivienne of bloodmagic.
No. A ringing endorsement of Cassandra is not in any way a suggestion that Vivienne should be made Divine.
Whether she feigned shock or it was genuine, she did not make you think anything. All your thoughts were your own. Now, if she had alluded to it, then I'd agree with you, but she made no such hints. As for her response to saying the mages should be involved in the Chantry, she remarks that she likes how your mind works because she can't quite predict what you're going to surprise her with next. Here's a woman, set in her ways, and yet here you come to put a brand new idea in her head. She seemed pleasantly surprised to me.
OK TKS, you are being ridiculous bringing a conversation of another topic here.No you didn't, you even admited that aveline wasn't so well...
You are one as far desperate by this point all you can do is throw general statements that i have no proof ,boy all you need to do is look up definitions of word corruption and also read about legal corruption.
She arranged that though. She invited him for the purpose of him making a scene so she could make a big grand and impressive entrance. Cole calls her on it. So she did create the situation that leads to his death, that sounds like murder to me. What would that legally be called, intentionally setting a scenario where you have an excuse to kill someone?
Never heard that, but assuming it's true, she didn't tell him to draw his weapon. The guy acted of his own will. If Vivienne set up the confrontation, it may have only been to test the Herald to see how he or she would respond. The guy drawing his weapon was too far however.
OK TKS, you are being ridiculous bringing a conversation of another topic here.
Because you didn't show anything, you keep saying the same thing all the time without giving facts, they are because you say so.
And how she is being morally corrupt them? Do you have something beyond your opinion?
No im not, just stated thing you have denied and was truth.
Why i should show you? lol honestly do you want links for what you can find in 3 seconds by using google? Sorry pal just google "corruption definition" and "legal corruption" ,not much of the problem im sure you will find something.
Where i did say that you seem to fail understand what is going on , i was talking about that corruption aren't only things that are illegal and used moral corruption as one of examples with legal corruption as another.
And i have already posted proofs so i won't repeat myself with it over and over.
There is a conversation with Cole where he says she sent a letter to that guy with a lie so he would take action against the Inquisitor. That guy offended her with racist remarks and mocked Bastien too, it hurt her so she set the trap and he fell right through it.Never heard that, but assuming it's true, she didn't tell him to draw his weapon. The guy acted of his own will. If Vivienne set up the confrontation, it may have only been to test the Herald to see how he or she would respond. The guy drawing his weapon was too far however.
There is a conversation with Cole where he says she sent a letter to that guy with a lie so he would take action against the Inquisitor. That guy offended her with racist remarks and mocked Bastien too, it hurt her so she set the trap and he fell right through it.
So skin color prejudice DOES exist in Thedas!
Thanks, I'll try to look this up later.
I find it funny when people think she never stayed in the Circle, specially because she is the First Enchanter of Montsimmard.
As a point of fact, she's the First Enchanter elect. She was never formally instated as First Enchanter after Fiona's promotion from First Enchanter to Grand Enchanter. Not that it has any bearing on the discussion.
While she seems to have divided much of her time between Duke Bastien's estates and the Imperial court, it is likely that she spent at least a little of it in Montsimmard. If nothing else, she would have needed to maintain a presence there to keep her hat in the ring when it came to promotions. Out of sight, out of mind, and that wouldn't have suited her at all.
So basically you're accusing VIvienne of bloodmagic.
No. A ringing endorsement of Cassandra is not in any way a suggestion that Vivienne should be made Divine.
Whether she feigned shock or it was genuine, she did not make you think anything. All your thoughts were your own. Now, if she had alluded to it, then I'd agree with you, but she made no such hints. As for her response to saying the mages should be involved in the Chantry, she remarks that she likes how your mind works because she can't quite predict what you're going to surprise her with next. Here's a woman, set in her ways, and yet here you come to put a brand new idea in her head. She seemed pleasantly surprised to me.
She was insteated, her own codex says she became first Enchanter at young age.As a point of fact, she's the First Enchanter elect. She was never formally instated as First Enchanter after Fiona's promotion from First Enchanter to Grand Enchanter. Not that it has any bearing on the discussion.
While she seems to have divided much of her time between Duke Bastien's estates and the Imperial court, it is likely that she spent at least a little of it in Montsimmard. If nothing else, she would have needed to maintain a presence there to keep her hat in the ring when it came to promotions. Out of sight, out of mind, and that wouldn't have suited her at all.
Yeah, I heard bits of that banter with Cole and Viv. Something about a trap. I just heard that for the first time the other day.
Cole also went on to talk about some things...that gave me the impressions that Viv actually went through quite a bit more than is apparent. First Cole starts with a flash of Viv being kind of excited and how she wanted everything perfect for this first time. It seems it was a flash of a young Viv. She said/thought , "I hope he is gentle with her." Then Cole goes into some scene about ropes/string..and gears, I think. Did not sound good. Then Cole says in this astonished voice, "He hurt you." I think it was the Duke. Not sure, though.
Cole goes on to talk about Viv smiling--basically to calm ppls fear of her. To say , "See, I'm just like you." Something, something Templars..then Cole tells Vivienne in this unusually stern voice, "Don't be afraid. If the Templars try to come for you, I will kill them."
I did not get all the banter. One of those times I really wish I had my subtitles on, but I got enough of it to make me realize some very bad things happened.
Also in one version of the epilogue slides with Viv as Divine, she restores the Circles, but the mages have more freedom and responsibility than ever before. With the Templars held firmly on a leash.
So, Viv really kind of reminds me of a bard. She has one face while working toward something else. I think she did what she had to do to survive the institution. Her strategy was to assimilate, and strike from within, basically. Her vision of the Circle was to be one of a place of higher learning, training and discipline, instead of a prison. While keeping the Templars as protection, yet thoroughly leashed.
But that was only one epilogue for her.
The Banter with Cole that shed a bit more light on her past was important to me. Unfortunately, it was also tied to the whim of triggering banter. So, I went through many pt's and hours of this game without ever knowing this part of her.
So basically you're accusing Vivienne of bloodmagic.
No. A ringing endorsement of Cassandra is not in any way a suggestion that Vivienne should be made Divine.
Whether she feigned shock or it was genuine, she did not make you think anything. All your thoughts were your own. Now, if she had alluded to it, then I'd agree with you, but she made no such hints. As for her response to saying the mages should be involved in the Chantry, she remarks that she likes how your mind works because she can't quite predict what you're going to surprise her with next. Here's a woman, set in her ways, and yet here you come to put a brand new idea in her head. She seemed pleasantly surprised to me.
Also, TKS, you still haven't provided me a single example of her 'corruption' outside of an oblique reference to her 'being involved' with 'corrupt groups'. Specifics. What has she done that's corrupt. Give me actual examples. Things she has done that are corrupt. Please.
Most people don't like Vivienne fall into two categories: They think she's a (swear), or their argument is "magez shld be teh freez!"
Also, TKS, you still haven't provided me a single example of her 'corruption' outside of an oblique reference to her 'being involved' with 'corrupt groups'. Specifics. What has she done that's corrupt. Give me actual examples. Things she has done that are corrupt. Please.
I already have explained that ,no to mention your constant twisting what i have said to make her look better and me pointing over and over that she participated in corrupted system (and yes that pretty much automatically makes you corrupted so now im stating obvious) and i gave an example later of her doing specifically in only 1 instance that she was shown playing the game.
The thing with her party? That's the only in-game evidence to support your argument that she's corrupt? I don't think you are using the work 'corrupt' correctly.
The thing with her party? That's the only in-game evidence to support your argument that she's corrupt? I don't think you are using the work 'corrupt' correctly.
Avoiding that you deliberately ignored 1 part of my post , pretty much yes she set up events that could have lead (with her knowledge) to another person death for her benefit what pretty much is an example of abuse of power and dishonest action for her personal benefit.
I ignored the first part of your argument because your explanation as to why she's 'corrupt' is because the system is 'corrupt', but you can't or won't explain further, so it's not worth my time anymore.
To the second point, weak evidence, but you have already made up your mind, so it's pointless to continue.
I ignored the first part of your argument because your explanation as to why she's 'corrupt' is because the system is 'corrupt', but you can't or won't explain further, so it's not worth my time anymore.
To the second point, weak evidence, but you have already made up your mind, so it's pointless to continue.
No, that just your fiction that you made up to make my argument look bad and ridiculous, to your information there is major difference between "she is corrupt because system is corrupt" and "she is corrupt because she is participating in system that is corrupt" ,what pretty much makes you corrupt as participating in criminal activities makes you criminal .
It isn't, i have explained why and it was confirmed by the guy that can read your mind so pretty much solid evidence.
daveliam, you didn't refute TKS. Boost32 and I did. 
The Banter with Cole that shed a bit more light on her past was important to me. Unfortunately, it was also tied to the whim of triggering banter. So, I went through many pt's and hours of this game without ever knowing this part of her.
Which is why I think DA:I should have had cut scenes between companions in Skyhold and elsewhere.
daveliam, you didn't refute TKS. Boost32 and I did.
Yeah, i guess it is nice to have good dreams even if they are unrealistic ,im not a monster i will let you have it. 
Guest_AedanStarfang_*
Vivienne is a very self-centered "companion" and her agenda is/was well-laid out and carefully thought out in a self-serving manner. There is a difference between corruption and selfishness; for Vivienne's part I believe wholly that she simply panders to the mob/righteous chantry crowd - as any obvious signs of corruption would reflect poorly on HER, and she couldn't have that happen no she must keep up appearances no matter whom she has to step on to do it.
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