45 réponses à ce sujet

[CHRrOME]

What do you guys think? should that aberration exist in ME:A? Oh! and stunlock, almost forgot.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yes, it should. Otherwise they'd have to create something worse to produce those tears.

[KaiserShep]

They should bring back being able to get knocked down entirely like in ME1. That'll learn 'em. 

[Vespervin]

Who doesn't loved being pulled halfway across the map to your unavoidable doom?

[Quarian Master Race]

Sync kills are whatever. Apart from some BS triggers, they are really only a danger to baddies, such as SP players.

Stunlock should be shown the airlock (much like all other things geth)

[DaemionMoadrin]

Stunlock can't be that bad if people can do platinum solos.

[Malanek]

I think they should have them. Perhaps make the window of opportunity to save a teammate a little bit bigger to bring cooperation to the fore. I also don't think they should be quite so deadly and difficult to kill as phantoms. Husks on the other hand could have had a sync kill at the end of a 3 second grab and been perfectly balanced. It's all about individual design and balance.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Without sync kills, the game is trivialized by certain characters, like the Kroguard.  Of course, the characters that are most resilient against stunlock, are also the most likely to be sync-killed (e.g. characters that have no dodge).  And then there's the Batarian, who suffers horribly from stun lock and still has no dodge.

 

IMO sync kills add to the intensity of the game.  Nothing like turning around on wave 11 to have a phantom greet you in the only way she knows how, lol.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Stunlock can't be that bad if people can do platinum solos.

 

LOL.

[Quarian Master Race]

Stunlock can't be that bad if people can do platinum solos.

I can do platinum solos, and stunlock isn't a difficulty issue(indeed, geth are the easiest faction by far). Its an annoyance one. Taking away control from the player is lazy game design. It means you couldn't design a challenging enemy, so you simply render the player unable to do anything. May as well cause the controller/ keyboard to stop working at random intervals.

[7twozero]

It's yea not yay, unless you're just that excited.

[Malanek]

Collectors are the easiest to solo platinum against. Stunlock would be OK if there was a fair skill based way of avoiding it.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I can do platinum solos, and stunlock isn't a difficulty issue(indeed, geth are the easiest faction by far). Its an annoyance one. Taking away control from the player is lazy game design. It means you couldn't design a challenging enemy, so you simply render the player unable to do anything. May as well cause the controller/ keyboard to stop working at random intervals.

 

What else should the enemy do then? Lay traps? Coordinate ambushes? Combine their beams for a special attack?

 

To make an enemy difficult you usually have two options: Up their stats so they have more health and do more damage or you give them crowd control and immunity powers.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

GRRRAAAGH!! VORCHA INDIFFERANT! DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT SYNC-KILLS!! WE BURN FROM A DISTANCE ANYWAYS! CAN'T TOUCH US ONCE THEY'RE DEAD!

[Malanek]

What else should the enemy do then? Lay traps? Coordinate ambushes? Combine their beams for a special attack?

 

To make an enemy difficult you usually have two options: Up their stats so they have more health and do more damage or you give them crowd control and immunity powers.

Well you listed three ways.

 

One thing I think they should strongly consider is making more of an issue on weakpoints. Just as an example, Guardian's shields should have been immune to piercing for instance so you had to shoot through the hole, flank or combo the shield away. Then when they get close they should have had a highly damaging shield bash attack. Other big creatures should require that you hit their weak points to break down their defenses.

 

Things that get into melee range or fire projectiles that can be dodged can stun you. Traps aren't actually a bad idea, it's area denial when you try to kite. Perhaps your shield should stop ranged stunning attacks but once down you're fair game. I think there are quite a few things that could be done if they are creative.

[N7Jamaican]

Whatever works in the long run.

[Cyonan]

As far as both sync kills and staggerlock is concerned:

 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well you listed three ways.

 

One thing I think they should strongly consider is making more of an issue on weakpoints. Just as an example, Guardian's shields should have been immune to piercing for instance so you had to shoot through the hole, flank or combo the shield away. Then when they get close they should have had a highly damaging shield bash attack. Other big creatures should require that you hit their weak points to break down their defenses.

 

Things that get into melee range or fire projectiles that can be dodged can stun you. Traps aren't actually a bad idea, it's area denial when you try to kite. Perhaps your shield should stop ranged stunning attacks but once down you're fair game. I think there are quite a few things that could be done if they are creative.

 

Let's say we implement your change to the Guardian shields... and then you get a map with low visibility. A team that excels at shaking the screen but doesn't kill anything. The Guardians come steadily closer and you just can't manage to hit them. The guy with the Lash is pointlessly spamming Smash and you missed the mail slot two times already... does that sound like fun to you? ^^

 

In theory you could introduce healing/repair. The Cerberus Engineer does that already and I think Cannibals can heal themselves when they eat another unit. Just give all enemies a healing factor. That would make the game more difficult.

It also would make DoTs less effective, would ruin kiting and drag the mission into overtime.

[Vortex13]

I think that sink kills need to be reworked so that the player actually has a chance to get out of them, much like the husk grapple escape.  Make it so that a lead up animation plays; something like a phantom swinging her sword dangerously close to your character's head, or a banshee grabbing the player; during this time a prompt to "Press A Quickly!" will appear and you will have to succeed in order to escape the baddie's grasp.  Now what differentiates this from the normal husk grapple is that the window you have to successfully break free is determined by your remaining health. The lower your health the shorter the time frame is.

 

This way you eliminate (at least partially) the pesky 'teleport grabs' and give the player some say over the flow of battle. Taking control completely out of the players' hands is a big no-no, giving us an out will make the sync-kills feel less cheap.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think that sink kills need to be reworked so that the player actually has a chance to get out of them, much like the husk grapple escape.  Make it so that a lead up animation plays; something like a phantom swinging her sword dangerously close to your character's head, or a banshee grabbing the player; during this time a prompt to "Press A Quickly!" will appear and you will have to succeed in order to escape the baddie's grasp.  Now what differentiates this from the normal husk grapple is that the window you have to successfully break free is determined by your remaining health. The lower your health the shorter the time frame is.

 

This way you eliminate (at least partially) the pesky 'teleport grabs' and give the player some say over the flow of battle. Taking control completely out of the players' hands is a big no-no, giving us an out will make the sync-kills feel less cheap.

 

Eh, we already have warnings in the game. Every sync kill unit has a certain action or stance they take before they are primed for a sync kill.

Btw... not a fan of QTEs, that's just distracting.

[Cyonan]

I suppose I should do more than post a gif to note my hatred of these things.

 

Personally I would rather see them work to improve the game's AI. We've got new console hardware so there's much less limitations to be working with here. We shouldn't need to limit the number of enemies to only 8 at a time, and I'd love to see overall better tactics from the AI rather than things that ultimately feel like cheap moves to kill me.

 

I'd also say balance out the power of the units a bit more. Specifically with Cerberus they felt like the entire faction was being carried by the Phantoms until the Dragoons came in doing their best Leeroy Jenkins impressions.

[Malanek]

Let's say we implement your change to the Guardian shields... and then you get a map with low visibility. A team that excels at shaking the screen but doesn't kill anything. The Guardians come steadily closer and you just can't manage to hit them. The guy with the Lash is pointlessly spamming Smash and you missed the mail slot two times already... does that sound like fun to you? ^^

Well you have created the perfect storm of crapieness in your teammates. But either a) flank them or b ) overcome the screenshake. It isn't that hard c) wait for the guy to smash a guardian and shoot it at the right time.

 

It is more of a challenge but is that really a bad thing? The game shouldn't be so easy if your team is playing so badly.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well you have created the perfect storm of crapieness in your teammates. But either a) flank them or b ) overcome the screenshake. It isn't that hard c) wait for the guy to smash a guardian and shoot it at the right time.

 

It is more of a challenge but is that really a bad thing? The game shouldn't be so easy if your team is playing so badly.

 

I'm saying that a bad team shouldn't make the game harder than it is on solo... and that even small changes can have a lot of impact.

[Malanek]

I'm saying that a bad team shouldn't make the game harder than it is on solo... and that even small changes can have a lot of impact.

Perhaps you're making a point that screenshake from other players shouldn't exist. It isn't a big issue to me though. The multiplayer component is a co-op game though. I do agree with you that it would be better if slick cooperation wasn't essential, but at the same time I think it should be encouraged and rewarded a little bit more than ME3 where it was only really hack and escort objectives where it mattered at all for any decent player.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Perhaps you're making a point that screenshake from other players shouldn't exist. It isn't a big issue to me though. The multiplayer component is a co-op game though. I do agree with you that it would be better if slick cooperation wasn't essential, but at the same time I think it should be encouraged and rewarded a little bit more than ME3 where it was only really hack and escort objectives where it mattered at all for any decent player.

 

Screenshake has to go or the radius needs to be lowered, yes.

 

And if I never have to see a Hex Shield again, then I'll be happy, too.