66 réponses à ce sujet

[Cknarf]

Renegade interrupts for every situation.

Not Anderson: "Not Shepard, we need you to--"

RT

Not Shepard punches Not Anderson in the face

[Sidney]

I care about the intent. I generally invent the intent myself.
I don’t care about the effect.
I also think it should be left to the player to decide what a "good guy" would say.

A player can't decide that...it is programmed into a computer that option 1 is the answer that triggers the Paragon response. You never control your dialog only your intent.

[Sidney]

the best option would be to just get rid of dialogue wheel and do the good old text lines and more options to choose from

I'm playing POE and recalling exactly what the wall of text was. Yes, there are a lot of options...most of them non character building options like "Tell me more" and "Who are you" type stuff along with the "yes I will help you" and "no I won't help you" alternated with "yes I will help you for cash". There are no more character building options than the wheel affords us and frankly the dialog options are so bland as written for the handful of character building options it is sad. Your character is a mostly emotionless cipher for apparently speaks in short simple sentences.

[In Exile]

I'm playing POE and recalling exactly what the wall of text was. Yes, there are a lot of options...most of them non character building options like "Tell me more" and "Who are you" type stuff along with the "yes I will help you" and "no I won't help you" alternated with "yes I will help you for cash". There are no more character building options than the wheel affords us and frankly the dialog options are so bland as written for the handful of character building options it is sad. Your character is a mostly emotionless cipher for apparently speaks in short simple sentences.

 

In POE, apart from those option, the rest are either (1) expressing a particular view but in a different tone (e.g. passionate is getting really worked up about injustice, while benevolent is the same but less explosive) when it comes to a moral issue (e.g. kids being beaten), with really only "cruel" being very different (because it's just the unstable jerk option), and - very rarely - rational; and (2) often completely incomprehensible on a first playthrough because there's no built up of the lore.

 

Apart from the first conversation in-game, there's absolutely no way to characterize yourself (even DA:I is better). But, almost ironically, the - let's call them flashbacks - leave open a lot of room for you to define yourself, and the follow-up (flashback) conversations are pretty reactive.

 

And then, of course, there's the absolute total failure when it comes to choice and consequence re: religion, but this is the same developer that made MoTB; expecting them to handle that issue well is pretty much a failing proposition. 

 

I remember the prologue, where there's an 18ish INT persaude option. It's a 4-5 conversation arc on the theology and metaphysics of the world, with absolutely no context or explanation. It's total word salad. While it's cool to have a character that's actually knowledgeable about the setting (for once), POE took it a bit too far. 

[KaiserShep]

the best option would be to just get rid of dialogue wheel and do the good old text lines and more options to choose from

I don't see how that's any better. Since the PC will be voiced, and spoken lines tend to have a higher word count than what would fit across the screen in any reasonably designed menu system, it would just be either a list of paraphrases, or simply a short list of excerpts of dialogue, which is kind of the same thing anyway. 

 

A list in and of itself won't make a difference in terms of sheer options. A dialogue wheel with an investigate option can still hold up to 5 different options of dialogue right on the first menu. 

[Quarian Master Race]

Renegade interrupts for every situation.

Not Anderson: "Not Shepard, we need you to--"

RT

Not Shepard punches Not Anderson in the face

I like it, but why should I be forced into only responding with bland punches?

[In Exile]

I don't see how that's any better. Since the PC will be voiced, and spoken lines tend to have a higher word count than what would fit across the screen in any reasonably designed menu system, it would just be either a list of paraphrases, or simply a short list of excerpts of dialogue, which is kind of the same thing anyway. 

 

A list in and of itself won't make a difference in terms of sheer options. A dialogue wheel with an investigate option can still hold up to 5 different options of dialogue right on the first menu. 

 

More than that, it also doesn't give you better information to pick options, because as I keep saying, pragmatics are a thing (and a key to understanding speech). 

[SNascimento]

I like it, but why should I be forced into only responding with bland punches?
 

Interrupts never force you to do anything, but they did tend to be in ME2 violent outburts of awesomeness. 

[PhroXenGold]

The line shouldn't make my character act at all. The line should make my character say something.

Actions should be divorced from lines.
I want to decide for myself whether my character is sincere when he says "I'm so sorry." I refuse to be limited by the writers on this.

By relying on the tone they provide, you're left either saying sorry in a sincere way or not saying sorry (assuming the tone is sincere). Whereas, by ignoring the tone, I have more options.

You play your way. I'll play mine. But mine works better without the tone icons.

 

Speaking is acting. And the words alone are far from the only aspect of communication.

 

The problem I have with your approach - at least in a game with a voiced protagonist, which, whatever some people may desire, ME:A is almost certainly going to be going to be - is that you can't decide the tone used, as it has been decided already by the writers, much like the dialogue. Each option has a tone assigned to it. Pretending your character is using a different tone to that the VA uses is the same as pretending they are using different words. Being unable to tell the tone your character is going to use is no different from being unable to tell the words they're going to use. I can't quite see why you want to know one of those things but not the other.

 

I'm not trying to get you to change or anything, I'm just trying to understand your way of doing things. Seeing other peoples perspectives interests me. And if someone does or says things that appear to contradict each other, I like to find out their reasoning for it

[Sylvius the Mad]

Speaking is acting. And the words alone are far from the only aspect of communication.

Of the ones we're discussing, they are by far the least ambiguous.

The problem I have with your approach - at least in a game with a voiced protagonist, which, whatever some people may desire, ME:A is almost certainly going to be going to be - is that you can't decide the tone used, as it has been decided already by the writers, much like the dialogue. Each option has a tone assigned to it. Pretending your character is using a different tone to that the VA uses is the same as pretending they are using different words. Being unable to tell the tone your character is going to use is no different from being unable to tell the words they're going to use. I can't quite see why you want to know one of those things but not the other.

I want to control the intent behind the line. That means I want the tone to be applicable to a variety of possible intents. Most tones are, I think.

However, the writers will often rely on the tone icons to convey much of the meaning of the line, making the paraphrases less useful. But since they've never managed to document their tone icons well enough (including paragon and renegade), that doesn't work.

If we're allowed to turn off the tone icons, as we are in DAI, the writers then can't rely on them to convey meaning. That means we get more informative paraphrases and more neutral tones, both of which give the player more control.

Also, I have trouble ignoring the words used because I know what the words mean. I don’t know what the tones mean, so I can happily ignore those much of the time.

My tone isn't meaningful when I speak. I don't see why my character's tone has to be.

[MissMayhem96]

I really would like the ME1 style dialogue wheel with special dialogue and neutral options. Perhaps there could be dialogue pertaining to a situation where your characters class can be a solution to a problem. (Engineer class in Omega DLC for example)

I also really like the DAI Anger, Stoic, Confused, etc.options.

[Monk]

I would like to see the sarcastic option be made into an individual option on the wheel. While neutral can relate whatever basic emotional response there would be to a given situation, the sarcastic one would always relate the flippant response.

 

I'm not always like this but there are days when the flippant response is the only one i'm willing to part with in any conversation. "Your total is a dollar, 62." That's what your mom said. "Would you like to super-size that?" You can super-size my strudel. "Would you like a refill?" Let's do it.

 

At most, i can see the sarcastic option also being the charming one, like with DA2. It's sorta neutral, but still flippant.

[Obliviousmiss]

THREADS NEVER DIE! 

 

 

Nice resurrect, Monk. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not always like this but there are days when the flippant response is the only one i'm willing to part with in any conversation. "Your total is a dollar, 62." That's what your mom said. "Would you like to super-size that?" You can super-size my strudel. "Would you like a refill?" Let's do it.

 

At most, i can see the sarcastic option also being the charming one, like with DA2. It's sorta neutral, but still flippant.

 

 

Flippant sarcastic Space-man is something that ME series is seriously lacking. I'd be on board with this.

[Monk]

THREADS NEVER DIE! 

 

 

Nice resurrect, Monk.

 

*rubs paddles, keeping them warm* Thank you, thank you.

 

The such a miraculous tool, the search bar.

 

…

Flippant sarcastic Space-man is something that ME series is seriously lacking. I'd be on board with this.

 

 

Indeed! SarcasticHawke in space. Or in parallel, No-bleeps-to-giveShep.

[Dukemon]

Actually I only want that I can choose a dialog options only with one button. i.e. Cross Button on PS.

Sometime I skip some dialogue lines because its only chatting and after the third time it will be boring, but you have to use another button to skip and suddenly you choose a dialoge option you don't wont use. One button to choose a dialoge option, one button to skip the dialogue line from the other one. no multifunktional Button, please.

[fizzypop]

I prefer DA2 or DAI system. I like to have more options. I love snarky options.

[The Dystopian Hound]

I just want a fair system. Not like the one from ME2 where you have no choice but to be renegade or paragon.