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What if.... The Remnants are


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#76
Monica21

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I'm aware of how far the distance to Andromeda is. I've made many posts running calculations on how long it would take vessels to get there. It takes 230 years at FTL with Reaper speeds without discharging (they dont need to), and roughly 570 at FTL of Citadel ship speeds, with the need to discharge. You underestimate just how fast FTL in Mass Effect is. The problem isn't time, but discharge need and the absence of suitable stars within range during an intergalactic voyage.

I also ran calculations on how long it would take a ship to get there at relativistic speeds. At an absurdly fast velocity of 99.99996% c, you could get there in under a century. Pushing the limits, you could get there in 50 years. Over 2.5 million years would obviously pass on Earth.

A generation ship travelling at relativistic speeds could travel slower, get there in centuries while still over 2.5 million years would pass on Earth.

And the Tempest will be a small vessel, not whatever ark or fleet made the voyage.

So yeah, no space magic involved. Hell, with enough energy you can even do it in real life within a single human lifetime theoretically but it would way push and surpass what would be reasonable in relativity. The energy requirements would be enormous.


While I believe you, I don't know how you know this. Are the speeds all in the codex? Why does there need to be a discharge? What is being discharged? Why do you need stars somewhere between galaxies?

Just call it "Intergalactic Travel for Dummies."

#77
Dantriges

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It´s somewhere in the codexes about ships or technology.



#78
Arcian

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While I believe you, I don't know how you know this. Are the speeds all in the codex? Why does there need to be a discharge? What is being discharged? Why do you need stars somewhere between galaxies?

Just call it "Intergalactic Travel for Dummies."

In ME1, Ashley mentions it took her 24 hours to travel between Czernobog Fleet Depot and the colony Amaterasu, 12 light years apart, which obviously comes down to 0.5 light years per hour. That comes out at about 4380 times the speed of light.

 

In ME3, the codex states Reapers travel 30 light years per day. That's 2.5 times the speed of the average vessel Ashley used, or 10950 times the speed of light.

 

With these values in hand, it's simple to figure out how long it would take to travel certain distances. For example:

 

Distance between Milky Way and Andromeda = 2,500,000 light years.

 

2,500,000 / 12 = 208333.333333 days, which is 570.397764 years.

 

2,500,000 / 30 = 83333.3333333 days, which is 228.159105 years.

 

EDIT: Forgot to answer your other questions.

 

Discharging is a result of static electricity buildup due to the eezo core. If you don't discharge that electricity in the vicinity of a planet or star, it will increase the temperature inside the ship to the point where it cooks the crew and fuses the bulkheads together. Which is sort of not so good.

 

 


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#79
Kabooooom

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While I believe you, I don't know how you know this. Are the speeds all in the codex? Why does there need to be a discharge? What is being discharged? Why do you need stars somewhere between galaxies?

Just call it "Intergalactic Travel for Dummies."

Yep, Arcian already answered for me. Most of it is in the Codex, which actually goes into remarkably deep detail about how FTL travel in Mass Effect works. Ashley's statement was the very first comment on speed in the trilogy at all, and is probably an approximation for casual conversation. If I am driving 18 hours in my car, I am going to say it will "take a day for me to get there". The average speed of FTL is therefore 12 light years per day on the low end, and 15 on the upper due to the constraints that Reaper FTL puts on it by Reapers being 30 light years per day and "twice as fast".

And to expand on Arcian's description of drive discharge, specifically it requires discharging into the magnetic field of a star or planet (typically a planet) OR directly grounding the charge by landing on a planet without a magnetic field. The stronger the magnetic field, the faster and more efficient the discharge. Within days of accumulation, the internal temperature of the ship would rise to the point that the crew is fried. Interestingly, an exact timeframe for this IS listed in the codex. I believe 57 hours, but I may be mistaken as this is the one lore quantity given that I haven't really memorized because it is irrelevant. While that is the absolute timeframe for discharge, obviously ships would need to discharge at EVERY opportunity they had to prevent even getting close to that limit and preventing strain on the ship's systems. Most star systems have gas giants with a suitable magnetic field, so most ships probably discharge to and from a given systems mass relay or when they are on their way out of a system via FTL.

Also, completely irrelevant but interesting astronomy fact of the day: If we were able to actually see Jupiter's magnetic field from Earth, it would be roughly 5 times the size of the full moon despite being 1700 times further away.

EDIT: Initially, I erroneously stated 3 times the full moon on the upper limit. Quickly checked my facts and it is, in fact, five times larger. Which is astonishing.

#80
Hanako Ikezawa

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At 12 ly/d, it would take 579 years, 165 days, 0 hours, 23 minutes, 45.6 seconds.

At 15 ly/d, it would take 463 years, 204 days, 23 hours, 36 minutes, 57.6 seconds. 

These two are not counting the 101,520 times the ship would need to discharge. 

 

At 30 ly/d, it would take 231 years, 284 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes, 28.8 seconds


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#81
Hanako Ikezawa

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And destroying the Reapers is impossible because they're so powerful and numerous.

How long are you going to continue arguing against nothing?

What? I was just giving a more detailed description of the travel time, as well as pointing out how many "pit stops" would be involved. Just having some fun with calculations. 



#82
Vortex13

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If we are going to have to rely on some technobabble to get us to Andromeda, or some convenient contrivance to place us there, I would rather have something more catchy than building a super space ship, or a timely wormhole. Go with something different I say. 

 

 

Let us cross the intergalactic void with a Stellar Engine. Would it be hand-wavy? Yeah but no more than a sudden mastery of Reaper drive technology or a spontaneous wormhole out of nowhere. Imagine pulling up to Andromeda with our very own solar system; Remnant eat your heart out.  B)



#83
DaemionMoadrin

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If we are going to have to rely on some technobabble to get us to Andromeda, or some convenient contrivance to place us there, I would rather have something more catchy than building a super space ship, or a timely wormhole. Go with something different I say. 

 

 

Let us cross the intergalactic void with a Stellar Engine. Would it be hand-wavy? Yeah but no more than a sudden mastery of Reaper drive technology or a spontaneous wormhole out of nowhere. Imagine pulling up to Andromeda with our very own solar system; Remnant eat your heart out.  B)

 

I'd like it if they brought back the dark energy plot and the quickly dying sun of Haestrom. Perhaps it isn't dying, perhaps it is existing in two places at once and we can use it as a portal to another galaxy?

 

That way we would have foreshadowed it, it wouldn't be a complete Deus ex Machina and we could finally close down that plotline from ME2.



#84
Cheviot

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I'd like it if they brought back the dark energy plot and the quickly dying sun of Haestrom. Perhaps it isn't dying, perhaps it is existing in two places at once and we can use it as a portal to another galaxy?

 

That way we would have foreshadowed it, it wouldn't be a complete Deus ex Machina and we could finally close down that plotline from ME2.

If we accept your definition of deus ex machina, your idea would also be one, since the concept you're introducing wasn't mentioned previously.



#85
DaemionMoadrin

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If we accept your definition of deus ex machina, your idea would also be one, since the concept you're introducing wasn't mentioned previously.

 

My definition? Huh? What are you even talking about?



#86
Cheviot

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My definition? Huh? What are you even talking about?

You imply that whatever gets the protagonist to Andromeda will necessarily be a deus ex machina by definition because it hasn't been mentioned before.



#87
DaemionMoadrin

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You imply that whatever gets the protagonist to Andromeda will necessarily be a deus ex machina by definition because it hasn't been mentioned before.

 

I'm not implying anything like that. Actually, I said pretty much the opposite in my post.



#88
Kabooooom

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At 12 ly/d, it would take 579 years, 165 days, 0 hours, 23 minutes, 45.6 seconds.
At 15 ly/d, it would take 463 years, 204 days, 23 hours, 36 minutes, 57.6 seconds.
These two are not counting the 101,520 times the ship would need to discharge.

At 30 ly/d, it would take 231 years, 284 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes, 28.8 seconds


I just ballpark the numbers because the exact days, hours, and minutes depend both on your point of departure from the Milky Way and point of arrival at Andromeda. So a calculation that exact is pointless.

#89
Kabooooom

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I'd like it if they brought back the dark energy plot and the quickly dying sun of Haestrom. Perhaps it isn't dying, perhaps it is existing in two places at once and we can use it as a portal to another galaxy?

That way we would have foreshadowed it, it wouldn't be a complete Deus ex Machina and we could finally close down that plotline from ME2.


This is an interesting concept, but it would technically still be dying. If, for example, you have a wormhole (if that is what you were implying) in the center of a star, transporting material from the center of the star to somewhere else in space, it would cause the star to stop fusing hydrogen sooner than it otherwise would have.

I dont really see how such a thing would be useful for transport though.
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#90
DaemionMoadrin

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This is an interesting concept, but it would technically still be dying. If, for example, you have a wormhole (if that is what you were implying) in the center of a star, transporting material from the center of the star to somewhere else in space, it would cause the star to stop fusing hydrogen sooner than it otherwise would have.

I dont really see how such a thing would be useful for transport though.

 

Hit it at FTL speeds and perhaps you come out the other side?

 

Use it to find similiar phenomenons that aren't quite as dangerous?

 

I generally like the idea of folding space to travel more than the whole mass effect/warp bubble that ignores c. A wormhole might be the next best solution.

 

I'm fuzzy on the details because I haven't seriously thought about it yet, it was just a quick idea that combined an unfinished plotline and a future game.



#91
Kabooooom

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Hit it at FTL speeds and perhaps you come out the other side?

Use it to find similiar phenomenons that aren't quite as dangerous?

I generally like the idea of folding space to travel more than the whole mass effect/warp bubble that ignores c. A wormhole might be the next best solution.

I'm fuzzy on the details because I haven't seriously thought about it yet, it was just a quick idea that combined an unfinished plotline and a future game.


The FTL drives prevent collision with any object in space by refusing to activate if there is an object in a navigational path.

But finding a similar phenomenon could fit with the lore.

#92
DaemionMoadrin

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The FTL drives prevent collision with any object in space by refusing to activate if there is an object in a navigational path.

But finding a similar phenomenon could fit with the lore.

 

Oh, you can override safety shutdowns, that's the least problem. :P



#93
Kabooooom

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Oh, you can override safety shutdowns, that's the least problem. :P


Over all the thousands of years since the Asari discovered FTL flight, no one has been able to override the safety protocols though. The codex describes the workings of the FTL drives as a kind of "black box".

Which never made much sense, really. Somehow, the species of the galaxy know how to assemble FTL drives from scratch, following blueprints, but they dont know what part controls the safety? Especially since it must somehow be linked to a ships nav computer. Seems easy enough to override by simply putting in false information or rewriting the program.

And yet, somehow, it hasn't been done per the lore.

#94
BabyPuncher

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That was a really stupid codex entry of them to add.



#95
Kabooooom

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That was a really stupid codex entry of them to add.


For once, I agree with you. It makes no sense at all.

#96
BabyPuncher

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The were trying to come up with a good reason as to why people can't ram FTL ships into Reapers.

 

They should have just left it alone.



#97
Kabooooom

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The were trying to come up with a good reason as to why people can't ram FTL ships into Reapers.

They should have just left it alone.

Although, in their defense the fan boy backlash would be "why didn't we just FTL kamikaze the Reapers in their weak spots between their tentacles or some sh!t. Why Biower? Conventional victory biower."

Id prefer the Crucible over the Independence Day solution of how to win an alien war when you are technologically outmatched.

#98
AtreiyaN7

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@AtreiyaN7

Throw in modern medicine, genetic engineering and technology, and evlution will speed up the same way technology and the population growth has speed up. Evolution no longer Controls human evolution outside of the poorest and most primitive areas on the Earth where no modern medicine can be hard.(some djungle tribe with no Contact with the outside World)

Modern medication has put evolution and Healthy selection through evolution out of existance for the most part. sick people with bad genes, alerrgies, asthma, weak immunesystems or hyperactive immunesystems that's trying to kill them, are keept alive by means of medication which allows them to reproduce and pass their genes and problems on to the next generation, allowing them to accumulate. Making ach sucessive generation sicker than the previous one, requiering even more Medical aid. Go back one hundred+ years and your genes would have determined wether or not you would live long enough to procreate and spread your genes. Now it's mostly about what medicines are on the market.

The counter could be genetic therapy and engineering to fix Medical problems and the selection, rather than trying to manage the ever more sickly population, you make sure the people who are born get their Medical problems fixed or selceted before birth so that the population is keept Healty.
The alternative woudl be to ban all medication and let evolution do it's work again to ensure a healthy population.

We have already turned out backs on the natural evolutionary processes that have keept our species and every other species on the planet Health for billions of years. If you throw evolution out the window, then you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences and replace it's funtion with something else.
Just giving each new generation more pills than the previous one wont be a working solution, it would just doom humanity to horrible fate worse than most can immagine.

Kind of like how the Asguards Went extinct in Star Gate SG1. But instead of it being cloning that broke their Health to a Point where they could no linger sustain themselves, it would be the deterioration of the genetics and accumulation of gentic defects that would do the job.

With evolution thrown out the window, there is no mechanic that will keep the human genom strong or healthy. I don't know if anytone has ever said this Before, but, I do think it will be a problem and we can see that several chronic diseases are increasing with each generation in parts of the World with good Medical care and wellfare. It's called wellfare disseases and several other things. There is a reason for their increase for certain, and it's not just diet or Lifestyle that's increasing the cancer, obesity, asthma, alergies, autoimmune dissesses, diabetes and more.

Once people start fixing genetic Health issues, what's to stop them from making other modifications aswell? Laws and rules maybe? Theological beliefs? Would Changes to the genom to enhance beyond just curing disseases and speeding up evolution or taking it into your own hands be wrong at all?
I'm sure there is a lot to be discussed and considered about these issues and soon we will have to make a stand on these issues. Because it's right around the corner. Is it the future or is it all a misstake? We have already taken steps that will be hard to undo, and telling everyone to abandon Medical knowledge and technology will be hard. To abandon genetic research and it's applications might be equaly hard, and one might not be feasible in the long run without the other, since it might turn out to be a necessity if all are to live.

There is plenty of those tough issues out there, so it would be easy to create moral, theological and scientific issues about a lot of different things, other than Synthetic VS organic.

 

I'm someone who believed in and selected the Synthesis ending as the best option at the end of ME3, so my objection to this "the Remnant is actually humankind - surprise!" twist is not the result of me being some sort of narrow-minded Luddite. In fact, I'm so pro-science and pro-technology that it's not even funny (especially since I was a biology major once upon a time before somehow ending up as a permanently cranky book designer).

 

I absolutely believe that genetic engineering can direct future human evolution and can change humankind in significant ways rapidly as we go forward. I also don't have a problem with things like transhumanism, so you're not going to see me railing against the genetic modification of germlines to remove genetically inheritable diseases or altering our bodies with technology, etc.

 

My problem with the idea of the Remnant turning out to have been highly advanced humans is that it just plain stretches the limits of narrative and scientific credibility for me. For it to happen, I think you would be required to throw out the complete timeline of human evolution as we currently know it based on biology (molecular biology in particular) and the fossil record; it would mean ignoring hundreds of millions of years of evolution, or a billion years (maybe more) if you want to go back to the first eukaryotic cell(s) that gave rise to us.

 

Furthermore, the fact that we share so many genes with other lifeforms (including things like yeast cells) on Earth directly contradicts the idea that humans evolved separately somewhere else. I can buy into the concept of panspermia, but not if you're saying that these Remant humans sowed organic material on Earth that somehow ultimately resulted in a new highly advanced race of humans that is basically just like the Remnant humans through sheer luck. This is not believable to me.

 

Additionally, all the organisms on Earth (ignoring viruses because people still argue over whether or not they're even alive) pretty much share the exact same building blocks of life. We all have DNA based on some combination of A, G, T, C in base pairs, and humans and other lifeforms on Earth share a lot of the same genes and DNA, etc. This indicates that all life on Earth pretty much evolved from the same initial source.

 

The reason that I was able to accept Synthesis is that using nanotechnology or some sort of device that can rearrange atoms and create a new kind of merged biochemistry is at least partially believable based on what we might accomplish in the future (especially since we can already tinker with the genetic code AND because scientists have been working on creating synthetic DNA - not in the Synthesis ending sense of things, just to be clear). I don't think how they handled it in the ME3 ending was a good approach, but so be it - it's not like they were ever going to write a detailed explanation about the massive energy wave(s), etc.

 

I love Stargate SG-1, but I feel that it wasn't exactly hard sci-fi, except for the worm hole travel concept (worm holes are theoretically possible at least). ME isn't exactly Neal Stephenson-level hard sci-fi, but still, I'm expecting certain things to be believable - like how we evolved not suddenly being tossed out the window in favor of a surprise twist.



#99
Maniccc

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Andromeda is overrun by AIs cause there was no reapers to stop the inevitable.

And the Remnant is the last organic super species that stood against them and failed, but not before designing the plans for a super weapon that will kill all the synthetics...or let you control them or synthesize with them.



#100
BigBody26

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My problem with the idea of the Remnant being humans who advanced after the Reaper War and designed advanced ships to travel to Andromeda faster than the Ark could...

First, why wouldn't they find the Ark and bring everyone on it to Andromeda with the rest of the species? Why just leave them floating between galaxies?
Second, just no. I understand it could be explained through science, but no.