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Choices and Consequences - How to get them right this time.


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#1
The_Shade

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In Mass Effect (ME) and Bioware games in general, much emphasis is placed on giving the player the opportunity to make a decision leading to ostensibly a significant consequence. In some cases this was true when one had to decide whether to save Kaidan or Ashley in ME1 depending on which character one preferred. In other cases these decisions had minimal impact e.g. the Rachni Queen and her lack of importance in ME3.

 

In both cases however, the game Mass Effect clearly implies to the player when they are making a 'big' decision that will impact the game. I'm not against this but, I'd strongly prefer that Bioware mix this up with choices in dialogue or in game that appear to be minor but ultimately have just as serious consequences that the majority of gamers would not expect.   

 

For example, if you're leading a human expedition across multiple galaxies for a new home and you come across a shopkeeper on a new planet who sells you weapons and armour. As possible in Bioware RPGs you have the option make conservation and ask this shopkeeper who is and what life is like and so forth. You may happen to mention the purpose and importance of your mission or who you are as a means persuade him or her to lower their prices . In the vast majority of Bioware games conservations with minor NPCs provide us with some insight into the characters but seldom provide any major consequences to the story, but what if they did? In this case, what if this shopkeeper happens to be an agent for the main antagonist and you innocently mentioning your goal or name to this NPC alerts him or her to your arrival and location? Subsequently, your ship and crew are attacked by enemies resulting in the possible harm, murder or capture of your companions or a significant loss of resources? All from one brief conversation with one seemly trivial NPC.

 

You now take more care when you talk to NPCs, you no longer speak openly about your goals and motives to strangers because you recognize the terrible consequences this could have on your progress.  This is true of reality of course, one wouldn't tell strangers their goals to someone they have never been before simply because they could, who knows who they could be. However, by doing so you're not as open and social to the other NPCs around you. NPCs that were otherwise willing to trust you and give you the benefit of the doubt. However, due to your vague and cagey approach that you have developed from previous experience instead do not provide you with the resources that they were initially willing to. They themselves start to feel suspicious about you due to your suspicion about them. As a result this could create enemies between otherwise potential friends or allies. 

 

This is just one basic example of the myriad of possibilities Bioware could use subtle choices and consequences for in game. The fear of failure keeps the gamer on their toes, constantly engaged with even the most irrelevant debates, discussions or actions in order to try and achieve the best outcome in game. While at the same time it makes the world of Mass Effect feel more realistic, dark and believable. Furthermore, we have the incentive to replay the game again to see how or if one's different decisions in some of the most apparently insignificant circumstances have any consequences and if so, to what degree?

 

It also has the capacity to make one's romance all the more compelling and satisfying. In a world of power hunger and shifty individuals, you were able to find someone you could trust and rely on. (Or, if your love interest betrays you, this makes their treachery of the more heartbreaking as you thought they were different or special, leaving your ability to trust others in Mass Effect at an all time low). 

 

This is generally lacking in Mass Effect (thus far). In the vast majority cases when you speak to almost all companions or NPCs on the Normandy or a similar 'safe' environment one could simply exhaust each and every dialogue option without the fear of 'bad' consequences in game irrespective of who they are. This because we know the game will tell us when we are making a 'big' decision similar to a parent telling a child that it's dinner time or that it is time to go to bed. Mass Effect can be more mature than this.  

 

In addition make the failure a consequence that is more difficult to avoid. This will make us as gamers uncertain and nervous throughout the entire game because we know something will go wrong or right but we don't know when or how unless we concentrate on the smaller details. Leading to a far more captivating experience. 

 

These choices and consequences should be kept on a personal level rather than a world changing level as found in Dragon Age which invariably leads to superficial consequences in game and in future titles For example, whether Hawke supported the Templars or Mages in DA2 had little to no impact on Dragon Age Inquisition at all, it only changed a few sentences in game. This also helps circumvent the creation of too many branching storylines, while keeping the implications equally if not more significant since they potentially affect the companions or NPCs you have a close relationship with. What is fundamental, is that if Bioware decides to use choice and consequence again then, choices and consequences should only used as a means to produce a better story rather than an end in itself. It is still possible to produce a fantastic Bioware game without massive choice and consequence. The story, characters and setting should be always the first priority. If Bioware implements this, I believe that more subtle choices and consequences and the capacity to fail could be a worthy addition to the upcoming Mass Effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2
Mcfly616

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How to get them right: make it easier on themselves by making a standalone game and story instead of a trilogy. Allows for a much more naturally branching narrative with varied consequences within a single installment. 


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#3
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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How to get them right: make it easier on themselves by making a standalone game and story instead of a trilogy. Allows for a much more naturally branching narrative with varied consequences within a single installment. 

 

I admit, I enjoyed their games more when this was the case. Not sure if it was because of it or in spite of it. I still think the import idea is a cool feature, but maybe overly ambitious. And if they are gonna do it, they gotta be all in. Not this "ME2/ME3 is a good place to start" bullshit. No one watches a film trilogy that way.... except maybe some friend or date you dragged into the theater with you.


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#4
The_Shade

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How to get them right: make it easier on themselves by making a standalone game and story instead of a trilogy. Allows for a much more naturally branching narrative with varied consequences within a single installment. 

 

Yeah I agree. A single installment allowed for wide ranging consequences in games such as Heavy Rain. I just feel it's very important on how a game implements choice and consequence. Depending how it is done it has the potential change our entire gaming experience not just provide us with different outcomes or endings. Too often in Mass Effect and Bioware games in general this opportunity I feel is missed. 



#5
Vazgen

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Decrease the scale of choices. Don't have the player to decide the fate of galactic civilizations by yelling. Smaller scale choices are easier to address in future installments.


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#6
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Decrease the scale of choices. Don't have the player to decide the fate of galactic civilizations by yelling. Smaller scale choices are easier to address in future installments.

 

I would like that, but Bioware's MO is to be "epic" all the time. Well, most of the time. DA2 had some fairly mundane (but entertaining) choices.. but I don't know about their consequences. Not sure about DAO's mundane choices, for that matter either.


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#7
Vazgen

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I would like that, but Bioware's MO is to be "epic" all the time. Well, most of the time. DA2 had some fairly mundane (but entertaining) choices.. but I don't know about their consequences. Not sure about DAO's mundane choices, for that matter either.

Yes, that quest for "epic" really hurts their games IMO. Why not make a game about a space double agent, undercover in a world-threatening terrorist organization, struggling between loyalty and friendship. You decisions while in the organization will not be known to the general public but they can still be imported and referenced to flesh out the character. 

But no, we have to get Reapers, Breach, darkspawn... Something that threatens to literally destroy the world. -_-


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#8
The_Shade

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Decrease the scale of choices. Don't have the player to decide the fate of galactic civilizations by yelling. Smaller scale choices are easier to address in future installments.

 

Yeah, that was part of my post. I completely agree. 


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#9
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Yes, that quest for "epic" really hurts their games IMO. Why not make a game about a space double agent, undercover in a world-threatening terrorist organization, struggling between loyalty and friendship. You decisions while in the organization will not be known to the general public but they can still be imported and referenced to flesh out the character. 

But no, we have to get Reapers, Breach, darkspawn... Something that threatens to literally destroy the world. -_-

 

Why indeed. I've wondered myself. I almost imagine they have PowerPoint meetings discussing the Epic Formula. Or something. :D

 

I can enjoy it myself, but I appreciate when they try something else. 


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#10
Cheviot

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How to get choices right = don't kill Shepard at the end.

 

Since Shepard isn't in the new game, I think Bioware have this in hand.

 

Other than that, I agree with McFly616 that the games should be much more self-contained as far as choices and their consequences go. ME2 should be the model for the narrative structure.



#11
Mcfly616

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Decrease the scale of choices. Don't have the player to decide the fate of galactic civilizations by yelling. Smaller scale choices are easier to address in future installments.

 unfortunately, the move to Andromeda gives Bioware all the room they need in order to implement yet another world-eating threat.

 

 

Quite the shame considering their games would be that much better by simply crafting a more personal tale. 



#12
LinksOcarina

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I did this article already.

 

The the choices and consequences are meaningless until players put meaning behind them. They only matter if the player feels they matter.

 

They also only happen in a narrative sense. Choices or consequences do not change the plot of any game; it is impossible to do so because of the confines of the games story arc. What does change is the flavor of it, what details make up the plot.

 

Overall, Mass Effect pretty much followed this to a T, to varying degrees of having choices, mostly in game one, to consequences shown in game 3. It was contained within the narrative, it didn't deviate from the plot, and in some cases they even avoided binary choices, which I was happy for.



#13
cap and gown

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I would like that, but Bioware's MO is to be "epic" all the time. Well, most of the time. DA2 had some fairly mundane (but entertaining) choices.. but I don't know about their consequences. Not sure about DAO's mundane choices, for that matter either.

 

Well, I think they have at least learned not to burn down your universe and then salt the ground, at least not if you want to continue the franchise. I almost have to wonder if the people writing ME3 were so tired of the series they wanted to destroy any possibility of having it continue.



#14
LinksOcarina

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Yes, that quest for "epic" really hurts their games IMO. Why not make a game about a space double agent, undercover in a world-threatening terrorist organization, struggling between loyalty and friendship. You decisions while in the organization will not be known to the general public but they can still be imported and referenced to flesh out the character. 

But no, we have to get Reapers, Breach, darkspawn... Something that threatens to literally destroy the world. -_-

 

Not many of you liked the threat of Red Lyrium, Anders and a crazy Knight Commander....



#15
SNascimento

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How to get them right: make it easier on themselves by making a standalone game and story instead of a trilogy. Allows for a much more naturally branching narrative with varied consequences within a single installment. 

It's certainly easier. But then, the very concept of the Mass Effect trilogy, and one of the things that set it apart from everything else, is of a connected story going on for three games. In a way, making Andromeda a stand alone game would be very "un-Mass Effect". 



#16
Sartoz

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In Mass Effect (ME) and Bioware games in general, much emphasis is placed on giving the player the opportunity to make a decision leading to ostensibly a significant consequence. In some cases this was true when one had to decide whether to save Kaidan or Ashley in ME1 depending on which character one preferred. In other cases these decisions had minimal impact e.g. the Rachni Queen and her lack of importance in ME3.

 

In both cases however, the game Mass Effect clearly implies to the player when they are making a 'big' decision that will impact the game. I'm not against this but, I'd strongly prefer that Bioware mix this up with choices in dialogue or in game that appear to be minor but ultimately have just as serious consequences that the majority of gamers would not expect.   

 

 Big Snip

 

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Unless Bio's game design gives you the proper feedback (that crucial branching option a few missions back) for the current situation , you will never know which decision made a difference. As far as anyone can tell, that is how the game unravels.  In other words, the game may branch as per a key decision but you just won't know it did.

 

To me, if choices are an integral part of the game, make sure that the results is conveyed back to the player. Perhaps an end-game visual choice tree/table showing:

 

1. Impact due to mission sequence choices.

2. Impact based on NPC conversations or lack of.

3. Impact based on a partial mission failure/success.

4. Impact based on resource acquisitions.

5. Impact based on alien allies/recruitement.

6. Impact based on who gets what first.

7. Impact based on loss of a colony, resource, AI agents... etc.

 

This feeback ought to provide enough information to tell the player what needs to be done differently, on subsequent playthroughs.

 

Hey, Bio, are you reading this?



#17
Mcfly616

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It's certainly easier. But then, the very concept of the Mass Effect trilogy, and one of the things that set it apart from everything else, is of a connected story going on for three games. In a way, making Andromeda a stand alone game would be very "un-Mass Effect". 

 The trilogy is over. Time to realize its shortcomings and take a different approach. It collapsed under the amount of variables the choices created after 2 games. They'll never achieve and properly implement the plethora of consequences accrued over the course of a trilogy. 

 

 

Bungie did a Halo trilogy. Then did a standalone ODST game as well as a prequel. I wouldn't say that was very "un-Halo". Just as I wouldn't say a standalone Mass Effect would be "un-Mass Effect". Bioware started the series off with a trilogy. So what...



#18
Vazgen

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Not many of you liked the threat of Red Lyrium, Anders and a crazy Knight Commander....

I assume this comes from DA2? I haven't played it but from what I heard its shortcomings have nothing to do with characters and plot. 



#19
SNascimento

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 The trilogy is over. Time to realize its shortcomings and take a different approach. It collapsed under the amount of variables the choices created after 2 games. They'll never achieve and properly implement the plethora of consequences accrued over the course of a trilogy. 

 

 

Bungie did a Halo trilogy. Then did a standalone ODST game as well as a prequel. I wouldn't say that was very "un-Halo". Just as I wouldn't say a standalone Mass Effect would be "un-Mass Effect". Bioware started the series off with a trilogy. So what...

A different approach doesn't have to be stand alone games though. The Halo comparison doesn't work because, as I said, the way the Mass Effect trilogy is put together is very unique. I'm not saying here Andromeda has to be a trilogy, what I'm saying is that by making it one you would lose one of the factors that made Mass Effect special. 

And who can say it can't be done better? Actually, before all that, it's worth remembering that the ME trilogy is far from a failure, it didn't collapse at all, it was a very successful story. It had its shortcoming yes, especially concerning characters from ME2, but it did a lot of things well. If you're thinking about the endings, they have little to do with the structure of the trilogy, and much more with questionable creative decisions.

If it's up to me, I'd do a trilogy, but drop the scope. It's something people talk about a lot. The Genophage arc is probably the greatest trilogy spanning arc of the franchise, focus of the strength of that.


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#20
RZIBARA

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How to fix the problem? 

 

Simple, less choices. The less choices there are, the easier it is to make each one have an impact on the story. I think something like 3-4 major decisions would be perfect.

 

And if it's a trilogy, it work well too.



#21
KaiserShep

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How to fix the problem? 

 

Simple, less choices. The less choices there are, the easier it is to make each one have an impact on the story. I think something like 3-4 major decisions would be perfect.

 

And if it's a trilogy, it work well too.

 

My thing is, not all decisions have to be major, or at least major insofar that it affects lots and lots of people or outright determines the fate of an entire faction. A choice can be meaningful and still just affect one other character. 



#22
MrFob

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I like the OP's suggestion to have dialogue option that you may ultimately be better off not choosing. Right now, even in the best of RPGs, you never really have to think about what you actually want your character to say and what you may not want him/her to say. You just click through all given investigation options first, then choose the next answer to progress along the main tree according to your mood, rather then on what impact your response will have. In reality, I at least usually think about both when in a conversation.

The only game I can remember in recent years that tried to approach this in some way is Deus Ex: Human Revolution with it's persuasion system (which was great but only works when dealing with specific situations and NPCs).

If you always had the threat of giving "wrong" or at least suboptimal answers, it would make you think twice before clicking an option on the dialogue wheel. The consequences wouldn't always have to be world defining either. Of course, if you witlessly informed an enemy spy of your intentions, that may cause you significant problems (in which case there should however also be some subtle indication that you are in fact talking to a spy, it shouldn't be random). But it may as well be that you just say something stupid and get a snarky remark (Shepard's "Can Asari mate with their own kind?" was going in that direction actually) or you may anger someone and end a conversation prematurely, loosing some influence or the possibility of a romance option for a squad mate.

The consequences could and should be diverse but not entirely unpredictable. And the player should not be "punished" for choosing a "wrong" option so much as rather being offered a different experience, possibly more challenging in certain cases.

Mass effect did this in very few examples (persuading Saren/TIM over the course of the game so they'd shoot themselves later) but it only scratched the surface of it's potential there and I also think the paragon/renegade system held it back there.

Of course, all this would prerequisite the dialogue wheel paraphrases to be written very carefully because now, inconsistencies there would really have more than just cosmetic impact on one conversation.


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#23
The_Shade

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The the choices and consequences are meaningless until players put meaning behind them. 

 

 

I disagree. Mass Effect 3 endings didn't provide sufficient consequences because the developers or/and writers didn't provide significantly different endings and in turn consequences. I (the player) should be able to play through conclusions with a clear difference between them based on what I experience not what I feel the meaning is. It's Bioware's responsibility to provide me with meaningful choice and consequence not my own. 



#24
Cheviot

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I disagree. Mass Effect 3 endings didn't provide sufficient consequences because the developers or/and writers didn't provide significantly different endings and in turn consequences. I (the player) should be able to play through conclusions with a clear difference between them based on what I experience not what I feel the meaning is. It's Bioware's responsibility to provide me with meaningful choice and consequence not my own. 

The Earth being destroyed is a clear difference to the Earth not being destroyed, wouldn't you agree? I mean, Earth is pretty important.



#25
Iakus

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How to get them right: make it easier on themselves by making a standalone game and story instead of a trilogy. Allows for a much more naturally branching narrative with varied consequences within a single installment. 

This.

 

CHoices should matter in the game you make the choice in.  Carrying them over to future games just constrains the story.  Constrain it too much, and it will have to be ignored or trivialized.


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