145 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Hmm. I need to think about this.

 

It doesn't sound right at all. And even if it was right, it would just mean the outer hull goes through miliions of years and the internal engines and electronics and such are only a century old.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.

 

...

 

Yeah, it's definitely wrong. There's no reason enclosing the humans inside of a metal hull should alter anything.

 

The outer edge of the effect isn't defined by the hull but by the mass effect field surrounding the ship... at least that's how I picture it. Still doesn't feel right though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The outer edge of the effect isn't defined by the hull but by the mass effect field surrounding the ship... at least that's how I picture it. Still doesn't feel right though.

This is discussing just relativistic travel, without using Mass Effect fields. 

With the Mass Effect, time dilation doesn't occur. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

This is discussing just relativistic travel, without using Mass Effect fields. 

With the Mass Effect, time dilation doesn't occur. 

 

In that case the relativistic effect applies to every single particle that's moving, not matter if it's inside the ship or part of the outer hull.

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, space 'n stuff.

[Eryri]

Really interesting stuff. I've always been fascinated by this sort of thing, even though I took biology at college.

1) Not that hard, actually. Space, particular the space between galaxies, is as close to a pure vacuum as we can get. There are so few atoms there that friction is nearly nonexistent, since there is only one atom in about every cubic meter of space. As for how much energy, can't say. Too many variables unaccounted for.

But wouldn't the relatively rare collisions you did have be incredibly damaging? When you're going at 99% c, wouldn't a 'stationary' hydrogen atom hit you like a cosmic ray? In your direction of travel, visible light would be blue shifted into some very nasty gamma rays. You'd need a lot of radiation shielding for the occupants to travel safely, I think, which would add to the ship's mass and the energy required to get it up to speed.

 

2) At 99.9999% the speed of light, the trip would take 2,538,002.5380 years, but the people inside will only experience  3,589.8197 years.

Wow! As little as that? Thanks for doing that calculation. Relativity really is mind blowing stuff! However, as you pointed out earlier, they wouldn't be able to go at 99% c for the whole trip. They'd have to probably spend several years accelerating then, at the half way point, they would have to start applying reverse thrust to shed that speed before they crash into Andromeda. What kind of average speed would they have? 50% c maybe? If so, how long would their subjective travel time be? If it works out longer than 50,000 years then they're in trouble, as not even the Protheans could build stasis pods that were reliable over periods like that.
 

 That's true. I was thinking of the ship's hull and external parts. 

I think as others have pointed out, the Ship's hull would still experience time dilation as well as the occupants.
 

Possibly, but I would think they would at least use it on stealth ships like the Normandy, since then it would never need to discharge and reveal its location

Indeed. If it's simple enough to reverse engineer Sovereign's drive in a matter of a few months while a Reaper invasion is going on and all the top scientists are working on the Crucible, then why not retrofit a few existing ships with them? You'd think the Alliance would want every advantage they could get.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Really interesting stuff. I've always been fascinated by this sort of thing, even though I took biology at college.
But wouldn't the relatively rare collisions you did have be incredibly damaging? When you're going at 99% c, wouldn't a 'stationary' hydrogen atom hit you like a cosmic ray? In your direction of travel, visible light would be blue shifted into some very nasty gamma rays. You'd need a lot of radiation shielding for the occupants to travel safely, I think, which would add to the ship's mass and the energy required to get it up to speed.

Yes, as you said at those speeds the ship would need shields stronger than even the shielding Mass Relays and the Citadel have, and those have the strongest shields in our cycle to the point we saw them as nigh-indestructible until we slam a giant asteroid into the Alpha Relay. And in order to generate those shields, you'd need an equally incredible power core to generate them and a massive fuel supply to keep just the shields going. All this makes the ship exponentially more massive, which makes getting it up to speed and slowing down that much harder.

 

 Wow! As little as that? Thanks for doing that calculation. Relativity really is mind blowing stuff! However, as you pointed out earlier, they wouldn't be able to go at 99% c for the whole trip. They'd have to probably spend several years accelerating then, at the half way point, they would have to start applying reverse thrust to shed that speed before they crash into Andromeda. What kind of average speed would they have? 50% c maybe? If so, how long would their subjective travel time be? If it works out longer than 50,000 years then they're in trouble, as not even the Protheans could build stasis pods that were reliable over periods like that.

You're welcome. It's fun.

If their average speed was 50% of light speed, then time dilation is almost nonexistent. For every day inside the ship, only 1.09 days will pass outside the ship. In order to get the time dilation we need to get to Andromeda in under 50,000 years we'd need an average speed being around 99.9808% of light speed. Even faster since even though Ilos and Eden Prime still had functional installations, almost everyone died in both. Ilos lost all but a few dozen scientists in only a few hundred years. 

 

 Indeed. If it's simple enough to reverse engineer Sovereign's drive in a matter of a few months while a Reaper invasion is going on and all the top scientists are working on the Crucible, then why not retrofit a few existing ships with them? You'd think the Alliance would want every advantage they could get.

Exactly. Having ships that don't have to discharge would give our cycle the biggest edge in the war since the Reaper's tactic of corralling us by deactivating the Mass Relays no longer works, and we would also have ships that could go jump out of FTL, launch surprise strikes on Reaper ships, then jump back to FTL before they could retaliate indefinitely. That breakthrough could literally turn the tables on the entire war from being all but lost to being on equal footing with victory even being possible without the Crucible but by conventional warfare. Imagine instead of the Crucible all the resources went to upgrading hundreds or even thousands of warships with that technology. 

[mat_mark]

How Bioware may deal with it:

 

1) They retcon the endings

2) They leave the Milky Way

 

We already know what they chose.

 

/thread

[Dantriges]

The problem is that the galaxy doesn´t have the fleet power even if every ship was equipped with Thanix cannons and Reaper FTL to win a conventional war. Themikefest calculated a possible number with cycles every 50.000 years and deducting losses based on a statement from one of the writers. IIRC it was still somewhere around 13000+ capitalships IIRC and destroyers in the 100k range.

 

Even if the cycles were somewhere around 200.000 years and the relays were built in the last million years, you still have 3300 Reaper capital ships against the galaxy´s  known 85 or 86. If we assume that "the geth have nearly as many dreadnaughts as the turians" means one less (38), we are at 124. Three quarian liveships with dreadnaught equivalent cannons, makes 127 Let´s say the batarians, little warmongers they are had 20 and they all escaped miraculously (and the ones from the other races), the galaxy has 147 capital warships against 3300 Reapers and that´s if we stack the deck in the galaxy´s favor. Even if we assume that the Reapers only built 5020 Reapers during the billion years because of cycles being slower, for most of the time, and they lost 66% of every reaper ever built, deduct 105 Reapers that were failures like the prothean one, there are still 1600 capital Reapers left.

 

Still a ten to one advantage for the Reapers and you need three Thanix dreadnoughts to kill one. 

 

By the way, the mass relays were open during the war and that the Reapers still have better FTL.

[GaroTD]

I agree that they should deal with endings. But this forum is all about complaining how Bio Ware FOR SURE will avoid them. Some people are already acting like arc theory is canon.

[themikefest]

The problem is that the galaxy doesn´t have the fleet power even if every ship was equipped with Thanix cannons and Reaper FTL to win a conventional war. Themikefest calculated a possible number with cycles every 50.000 years and deducting losses based on a statement from one of the writers. IIRC it was still somewhere around 17000+ capitalships IIRC and destroyers in the 100k range. Ok I get 13.000 something if they lose a souvereign class every three cycles. I don´t find the post now.

Here's the post

 

The only reason why we were able to stop the reapers in this cycle is because the reapers were made stupid. The only way to stop the reapers is to find the plans to the device, build it and use it before the reapers enter the galaxy. 

 

Even if the organics have the firepower to defeat the reapers in a conventional way, it would take a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if they're finally defeated after Shepard died of old age. I have posted a couple of scenarios in another thread to fight the reapers conventionally. 

[Tim van Beek]

I have posted a couple of scenarios to fight the reapers conventionally. 

This is off topic, but I just have to ask: Wouldn't destroying the citadel destroy the catalyst and leave the Reapers without a mastermind? What would have happened then?

[themikefest]

Why would Bioware have to deal with the  endings if they have a game take place in the Milky Way after ME3? 

 

They have their get-out-of-jail-free card. The guy tells the kid the details changed over time. 

 

Instead of Bioware having to deal with the endings, what if they add another  ending to use? Just as Shepard passes out at the console and the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, the Crucible fires a pulse that changes the programming of the reapers. The reapers are seen leaving the galaxy never to be seen again. What this does is avoid the magic carpet ride to la la land. Avoids dealing with the catalyst and can have the edibot and geth not destroyed.

 

Of course Bioware can write whatever they want to have another game take place in the Milky Way

[themikefest]

This is off topic, but I just have to ask: Wouldn't destroying the citadel destroy the catalyst and leave the Reapers without a mastermind? What would have happened then?

There was a thread talking about that. I mentioned flying the Citadel into the nearest sun. It's possible that would work. Too bad it wasn't an option. The other thing is that the catalyst could take control of a reaper and continue the harvest that way.  

 

During the Leviathan dlc, those people regained their awareness after the orb was destroyed. Its possible that might happen to the reapers, but there is no way to know unless the Citadel is destroyed or what the reapers would do

[dreamgazer]

This is off topic, but I just have to ask: Wouldn't destroying the citadel destroy the catalyst and leave the Reapers without a mastermind? What would have happened then?

Considering the Reapers are adept at moving consciousness between organic-inorganic vessels ("Assuming Direct Control"), and considering the Citadel's significance to the relay network, I'd say this would be a risky and futile decision that operates under the assumption that the Catalyst doesn't have a backup somewhere. Seriously, we're 170 years in the past and we have backups for our data all over the place.

Not a smart move whatsoever.

[The Heretic of Time]

I love MD, but I think she's completely wrong here. It's clear that BioWare moved to Andromeda to avoid the endings altogether. They're not going to homogenize them.

 

Not to mention that there are many holes and errors in her theory, most of them already addressed by other people in this thread.

[dreamgazer]

I won't be satisfied until I get closure for Eddie Lang.

[Zazzerka]

Seriously, we're 170 years in the past

 

Wow, is that all? Man, all I need to do is keep on exercising and eating healthy grains and I could fulfill my dream of meeting an actual asari.

[Kabooooom]

I was addressing Ark Theory specifically. Things that would instantaneously transport us to Andromeda, whether it be natural like a wormhole or artificial like a Mass Relay or Mass Relay equivalent, I don't count as being under that theory since those don't require an ark.

You're constructing a straw man argument for ark theory. Which, I believe, I have pointed out to you before. Ark theory is simply the hypothesis that the plot of the next game involves continuing galactic continuity by utilizing an ark or fleet of ships. How it gets there is not a fundamental part of it. Whether it be by generation ship, wormhole, relay, Reaper FTL tech, whatever. Doesn't matter. And a number of those options do not break the lore.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Wow, is that all? Man, all I need to do is keep on exercising and eating healthy grains and I could fulfill my dream of meeting an actual asari.

 

You'd be too old to appreciate it.

[Zazzerka]

You'd be too old to appreciate it.

 

You're probably right, but 200-year-old me could still shout lecherous comments as they go about their business.

[Dantriges]

Here's the post

 

The only reason why we were able to stop the reapers in this cycle is because the reapers were made stupid. The only way to stop the reapers is to find the plans to the device, build it and use it before the reapers enter the galaxy. 

 

Even if the organics have the firepower to defeat the reapers in a conventional way, it would take a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if they're finally defeated after Shepard died of old age. I have posted a couple of scenarios in another thread to fight the reapers conventionally. 

 

Ah thanks.

 

Your proposed ending sounds a lot like MEHEM, just without the "save Shepard" part.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You're constructing a straw man argument for ark theory. Which, I believe, I have pointed out to you before. Ark theory is simply the hypothesis that the plot of the next game involves continuing galactic continuity by utilizing an ark or fleet of ships. How it gets there is not a fundamental part of it. Whether it be by generation ship, wormhole, relay, Reaper FTL tech, whatever. Doesn't matter. And a number of those options do not break the lore.

Yes, they do. They either go against the lore directly, or skirt it with a Deus Ex Machina. There is no lore-friendly way that the sojourn can occur before or during the Reaper War. Afterwards yes, because technology will advance by leaps and bounds, but not before or during. 

[AlanC9]

Hmm. I need to think about this.
 
It doesn't sound right at all. And even if it was right, it would just mean the outer hull goes through miliions of years and the internal engines and electronics and such are only a century old.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is wrong.
 
...
 
Yeah, it's definitely wrong. There's no reason enclosing the humans inside of a metal hull should alter anything.

If we're still talking about relativistic time-dilation, you're right. Unless the hull's travelling at a different velocity from the internal components -- which wouldn't work too well, of course -- the hull must experience the same time-dilation as they do.

[AlanC9]

This is off topic, but I just have to ask: Wouldn't destroying the citadel destroy the catalyst and leave the Reapers without a mastermind? What would have happened then?

My bet would be that things would get worse. The Reapers depend on organics for reproduction, and nothing else. Without something to enforce the cycles, which don't actually do the Reapers themselves any good, the Reapers would treat organics the way we treat chickens, or maybe corn.