145 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

Yes, they do. They either go against the lore directly, or skirt it with a Deus Ex Machina. There is no lore-friendly way that the sojourn can occur before or during the Reaper War. Afterwards yes, because technology will advance by leaps and bounds, but not before or during. 

 

You're conflating a convenient out with breaking the lore. Secret projects fit perfectly into the ME universe. The only way the Ark Project would be lore breaking is if every part, ship and person involved in the secret project/organization didn't sport a conspicuous logo...

[Kabooooom]

You're conflating a convenient out with breaking the lore. Secret projects fit perfectly into the ME universe. The only way the Ark Project would be lore breaking is if every part, ship and person involved in the secret project/organization didn't sport a conspicuous logo...

I think Daisy is also confusing the definition of a deus ex machina too. People like to claim everything is a DEM it seems.

[spinachdiaper]

There is only one option I can envision to directly continue from the ME trilogy timeline into MEA and that would be canonizing Destroy and thousands of years later the mass effect relays begin to break down and become super massive black holes, hence the need for an exodus from the milky way.

[Arcian]

There is only one option I can envision to directly continue from the ME trilogy timeline into MEA and that would be canonizing Destroy and thousands of years later the mass effect relays begin to break down and become super massive black holes, hence the need for an exodus from the milky way.

Uh, and from where exactly are those 15 kilometer long tuning forks going to get the 10^10+ solar masses required for such a transformation to occur? I'm pretty sure they can't just pull that amount of mass out their ass, pun intended.

[7twozero]

Did you just use light-year as a measure of duration?

You think that's bad, one time this scruffy nerf herder on some back woods planet tried to tell me his brokeass ship could make the kessel run in twelve parsecs. As if!

[Ahriman]

Yes, they do. They either go against the lore directly, or skirt it with a Deus Ex Machina. There is no lore-friendly way that the sojourn can occur before or during the Reaper War. Afterwards yes, because technology will advance by leaps and bounds, but not before or during. 

People told you a dozen of lore-friendly ways already. You are just in denial.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

After the seeming destruction of the mass relays and a significant portion of civilization in the galaxy, I thought it would be fun for the next ME series to take place in a battered galaxy where interstellar travel is limited and people are rebuilding wherever they are. I thought a sort of post-acopalyptic ME game might be interesting, where you play someone trying to survive and rebuild might be a fun starting point.

Of course, Bioware is taking the time-honored "run away" approach, but I'm sure that was only after careful consideration of the "it was all a dream" approach.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think Daisy is also confusing the definition of a deus ex machina too. People like to claim everything is a DEM it seems.

Deus Ex Machina:  a character or thing that suddenly enters the story in a novel, play, movie, etc., and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve.

 

The Ark Theory scenarios that don't go directly against the lore involve something that suddenly enters the story and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve, in this case intergalactic travel. 

 

So tell me how I am confusing what a DEM is? 

 

You're conflating a convenient out with breaking the lore. Secret projects fit perfectly into the ME universe. The only way the Ark Project would be lore breaking is if every part, ship and person involved in the secret project/organization didn't sport a conspicuous logo...

Not on the scale this intergalactic voyage would require. 

 

People told you a dozen of lore-friendly ways already. You are just in denial.

If you finished reading the sentence, you'd see I continue and address the "lore-friendly" ways. 

[SilJeff]

they will deal with the endings by allowing you to keep your belief on what ending happened while going to a place where it won't be affected by it.

 

 

Basically, you got beat up by a kid in school, and so your parents are sending you off to a boarding school. You won't know what happens next for that kid who beat you up, but the beating up still happened.

[Killroy]

Deus Ex Machina:  a character or thing that suddenly enters the story in a novel, play, movie, etc., and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve.
The Ark Theory scenarios that don't go directly against the lore involve something that suddenly enters the story and solves a problem that had previously seemed impossible to solve, in this case intergalactic travel. 
So tell me how I am confusing what a DEM is?

Intergalactic travel is not a problem that we had in Mass Effect so it's not a deus ex machina to introduce intergalactic travel in ME:A.
 

Not on the scale this intergalactic voyage would require.

You make baseless assumptions and then argue against those assumptions. We have no idea what the scale of this endeavor is or what form the voyage will take.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

After the seeming destruction of the mass relays and a significant portion of civilization in the galaxy, I thought it would be fun for the next ME series to take place in a battered galaxy where interstellar travel is limited and people are rebuilding wherever they are. I thought a sort of post-acopalyptic ME game might be interesting, where you play someone trying to survive and rebuild might be a fun starting point.

Of course, Bioware is taking the time-honored "run away" approach, but I'm sure that was only after careful consideration of the "it was all a dream" approach.

Playing in the Milky Way during the rebuilding period would have been really interesting. 

[dreamgazer]

People like to claim everything is a DEM it seems.

You're a deus ex machina.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Intergalactic travel is not a problem that we had in Mass Effect so it's not a deus ex machina to introduce intergalactic travel in ME:A.
 

You make baseless assumptions and then argue against those assumptions. We have no idea what the scale of this endeavor is or what form the voyage will take.

Yes it is. Our ships can only go 50 light years before having to discharge. We have no idea how the Reapers surpassed this limitation, so we'd still have it if the voyage left before or during the Reaper War. And since Andromeda is a lot further than 50 light years away, going there is a problem. If that problem is suddenly solved, it is a DEM. 

 

It would need to be a ship or ships that can make the trip without killing the crew for hundreds of years, carry the hundreds or thousands of people that are going on the mission, carry all the necessities like water and food for both the trip and the time it takes to find a place and cultivate it, a fuel tank that has enough fuel to get us there, a powerful Mass Effect drive to help us get there, tools to build once we get there, weapons and vehicles to defend in case of attack by hostiles, and so on. That project is massive, no matter how you slice it. Too large to hide before the Reapers arrive, and too large to do after they've arrived and all top minds and resources are going to the Crucible. That's not baseless assumption, that's logical deduction. 

[themikefest]

Ah thanks.

 

Your proposed ending sounds a lot like MEHEM, just without the "save Shepard" part.

Shepard can still live in what I mentioned.  

 

Bioware could also say something else happened. Its up to them what they do. They have a lot of ways to make another game in the Milky Way after Andromeda. 

[themikefest]

Playing in the Milky Way during the rebuilding period would have been really interesting. 

I wouldn't mind having a game take place during that time. 

[Eryri]

Yes it is. Our ships can only go 50 light years before having to discharge. We have no idea how the Reapers surpassed this limitation, so we'd still have it if the voyage left before or during the Reaper War. And since Andromeda is a lot further than 50 light years away, going there is a problem. If that problem is suddenly solved, it is a DEM. 
 
It would need to be a ship or ships that can make the trip without killing the crew for hundreds of years, carry the hundreds or thousands of people that are going on the mission, carry all the necessities like water and food for both the trip and the time it takes to find a place and cultivate it, a fuel tank that has enough fuel to get us there, a powerful Mass Effect drive to help us get there, tools to build once we get there, weapons and vehicles to defend in case of attack by hostiles, and so on. That project is massive, no matter how you slice it. Too large to hide before the Reapers arrive, and too large to do after they've arrived and all top minds and resources are going to the Crucible. That's not baseless assumption, that's logical deduction.

Not to mention the fact that during this period the galactic economy would be under severe stress, and many supply lines would be broken.

I could just about accept the project beginning around the start of ME2, if the Council were only playing dumb with their "Ah yes, Reapers" routine and were in fact frantically laying contingency plans that they hid from Shepard, for some reason. I wouldn't much like it though, and it would strain my credulity almost as much as the Lazarus project.

But as to an ark being thrown together during the Reaper invasion itself... No. My supplies of disbelief suspendium would run out at that point.

[Killroy]

It would need to be a ship or ships that can make the trip without killing the crew for hundreds of years, carry the hundreds or thousands of people that are going on the mission, carry all the necessities like water and food for both the trip and the time it takes to find a place and cultivate it, a fuel tank that has enough fuel to get us there, a powerful Mass Effect drive to help us get there, tools to build once we get there, weapons and vehicles to defend in case of attack by hostiles, and so on. That project is massive, no matter how you slice it. Too large to hide before the Reapers arrive, and too large to do after they've arrived and all top minds and resources are going to the Crucible. That's not baseless assumption, that's logical deduction.

More baseless assumptions. You have no idea how or when we get to Andromeda.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not to mention the fact that during this period the galactic economy would be under severe stress, and many supply lines would be broken.

I could just about accept the project beginning around the start of ME2, if the Council were only playing dumb with their "Ah yes, Reapers" routine and were in fact frantically laying contingency plans that they hid from Shepard, for some reason. I wouldn't much like it though, and it would strain my credulity almost as much as the Lazarus project.

But as to an ark being thrown together during the Reaper invasion itself... No. My supplies of disbelief suspendium would run out at that point.

Yep. 

And if it was that early, the Shadow Broker(the Yahg, not Liara) would have discovered it. Then Liara would have discovered it when she took over, but she never says a thing. 

 

More baseless assumptions. You have no idea how or when we get to Andromeda.

I know. I'm arguing against the scenario of us getting there with an ark or fleet of arks before or during the Reaper War. If the journey takes place after the Reaper War, the issues are able to be rectified with the fact that technology advances between the Reaper War and when the mission leaves. 

[themikefest]

It would not surprise me if we're already in Andremeda at the start of the game and learn how everyone gets there through dialogue, codexes and datapads as the game is played.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It would not surprise me if we're already in Andremeda at the start of the game and learn how everyone gets there through dialogue, codexes and datapads as the game is played.

Me neither. I half suspect the game will start with us in a stasis pod, during which we use the CC and choose backstory, and when we finish it has the stasis pod opening and us stepping out while the tutorial mission is us getting our bearing back after the sleep. 

[dreamgazer]

This series features a sentient plant who cooks up necessary magic brain filters by digesting bodies, the cure for (brain-)death via "resources", and a giant organic-inorganic larvae made of liquefied bodies. Let's keep perspectives in check here, folks.

 

Oh, and if you wanna talk about DEMs and MacGuffins, talk a long hard look at ME1, the origin of this franchise. 

[Killroy]

I know. I'm arguing against the scenario of us getting there with an ark or fleet of arks before or during the Reaper War. If the journey takes place after the Reaper War, the issues are able to be rectified with the fact that technology advances between the Reaper War and when the mission leaves.

No, you're stawmanning.
An "Ark" containing genetic material and machines to birth people and help them establish colonies could be sent to the Andromeda galaxy during the Reaper war. Or any number of other things. Stop making baseless assumptions and arguing against them.

[Tim van Beek]

Oh, and if you wanna talk about DEMs and MacGuffins, talk a long hard look at ME1, the origin of this franchise. 

Now I just have to ask: What are the DEMs and MacGuffins in ME1?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Not sure about the theory of that YouTuber, Monica. She thinks that synthesis will be inevitable, but that would imply that even the end choice of ME3 doesn't matter. The refusal, control and destroy fans wouldn't be happy about that. It would make more sense to simply avoid the whole issue by having some organics flee the Milky Way before Shepard talks to the Intelligence. That way those who end up in Andromeda will not be able to know how it ended back home. It's simple and effective: A new story without the need to make sense of all the complications that the ME3 ending brought.

[dreamgazer]

Now I just have to ask: What are the DEMs and MacGuffins in ME1?

The Conduit fits the definition of a MacGuffin more than anything in the Mass Effect franchise. It absolutely is one up until it turns into a teleportation device.

Vigil's datafile is the only tried-and-true DEM in the franchise. Completely unforeshadowed, completely necessary to solve an unsolvable dilemma, given by a literal god of the machine at the end.