53 réponses à ce sujet

[Eelectrica]

I think this game has more healing options than most. but yes, you do have a lot of collecting of materials to get the most out of it.
Upgrade regen potions and healing potions. Hok on weapons is quite good too.

[Dai Grepher]

There are a few problems with this change.

 

1. They said it was done for strategy; to make players play carefully and plan their attacks, defenses, and times of healing. But this is defeated by camps. You can just return to a nearby camp to heal and restock. So no, there really isn't any strategy involved. The numerous supply caches lying around in the main quests also defeats this. Also, the un/equip health item exploit lets you heal in the field. So they failed to implement strategy.

 

2. This actually fails to utilize strategic play, and interesting play as well. The only examples I've seen posted in topics like these are healer mages casting a spell to heal themselves and allies, and maybe some health restoring accessories or weapons. But there are other forms of healing, and DA:O even shows this. I just got done playing DA:O today, and my bloodmage had Life Drain, Blood Sacrifice (which is basically a more powerful version targeted at allies), and Death Magic. Oghren, whom I made a reaver, had Devour (which is less reliable one shot Death Magic). Now what does that have to do with strategy? Well, you have to plan when and from whom you steal life. If you take it from an enemy, then fine, but you should be damaged first in order to get better use out of it. Also, a Vulnerability Hex should be placed first to get the maximum use from the spell. Also, taking health from your companions involves strategy. A ranger can also summon an animal so it's health can be taken instead. And both Death Magic and Devour require fresh corpses. So I think BioWare missed an opportunity here. While playing the final battle in DA:O I noticed there were a lot of corpses laying around. I also figured I could use them to restore health with Death Magic and Devour, and this is exactly true. So because of this I sometimes strategized to lure enemies into an area with these corpses so that I could use them to heal (Wynne is dead and neither my mage nor Morrigan are healers). So I think Inquisition could have benefited from that. Same with Blood Sacrifice. Only, it shouldn't just apply to party members. I think it should apply to the "blue ring" allies as well. This could also have storyline implications, but that's a separate issue.

 

Another example of healing would be... food. In one of my favorite classic RPGs by the name of Breath of Fire (for SNES, not the new ones), you could find food in someone's house and eat it and it would restore 10 health. There were also good and bad mushrooms growing in the forest that you could eat, and those would restore or take health depending on which kind you ate. I think Inquisition could have implemented this. Not just from finding food in whatever location you're in, but also from hunting it. Make the rams and such drop food. Then make that the "fuel" for a camp's ability to heal your party when you rest there.

 

3. Healing has storyline implications, as I referenced above. Being a healer mage makes your character seem more endearing to the others. They protect that character because they rely on that character. It has strong storyline meaning. An equal but opposite example is a bloodmage who steals life energy from others. This character might be looked at negatively, unless all of it is used on the enemy, in which case people might just try their best to ignore it even thought it makes them uncomfortable.

 

4. Injuries no longer exist, and that's a shame. Healing physical wounds that decrease performance should be as important as healing to regain the abstract "health". And these injuries should build up over time, requiring the characters to rest eventually, or else see a healer who will take the time to repair the damage. This would emphasize strategy and add a new sense of realism.

 

5. What is the Healing Mist grenade if not a "healing spell"? Come on BioWare.

[Hexoduen]

4. Injuries no longer exist, and that's a shame. Healing physical wounds that decrease performance should be as important as healing to regain the abstract "health". And these injuries should build up over time, requiring the characters to rest eventually, or else see a healer who will take the time to repair the damage. This would emphasize strategy and add a new sense of realism.

 

Injuries are apparently too complicated for EA's sales strategy, as is diversity in classes, ability point allocation, custom tactics and so on... "Our games are too hard to learn"  *disgruntled noise*

[Realmzmaster]

4. Injuries no longer exist, and that's a shame. Healing physical wounds that decrease performance should be as important as healing to regain the abstract "health". And these injuries should build up over time, requiring the characters to rest eventually, or else see a healer who will take the time to repair the damage. This would emphasize strategy and add a new sense of realism.

 

 

 

Injuries as implemented in DAO were lacking.  Injury kits were readily available. So the injuries never caused any real effects in or out of combat unless you forgot that the party member was injured.

 

Unlike in other crpgs where the cleric, priest or druid (not the mage) had the cure light, minor or major wound spell or the character had to be taken to a temple for healing or a certain number of days of rest were required for the wound to heal.

 

Most of this was removed because of requests from gamers who found these mechanics to be tedious. As far as EA's sale strategy EA responds to the feedback it receives. If a majority of gamers requested a game like BG1 or BG2 or some earlier crpgs EA would provide it if there is money to be made. If EA thought people wanted to buy pet rocks again EA would sell them.

 

Just reading some of the posts made by posters on this forum over time shows that many posters would not be interested in the mechanics I think should be in a crpg. They would find them tedious (like resource management, weight restrictions, need to consume food otherwise starvation occurs etc.). Games like Realms of Arkania series. I have also played crpgs where there was no or extremely limited healing magic.

 

So EA/Bioware is not exactly wrong in their approach. As far as diversity in classes DAI has the same basic classes as DAO (Warrior, Rogue and Mage). Specializations are somewhat different. The cleric, priest or druid class was eliminated due to world state restrictions and lore.

 

Also Healing Mist is not a healing spell, because the healing spell always hits, a grenade can miss its target if thrown improperly.

[Dai Grepher]

Injuries as implemented in DAO were lacking.  Injury kits were readily available. So the injuries never caused any real effects in or out of combat unless you forgot that the party member was injured.

 

...

 

Just reading some of the posts made by posters on this forum over time shows that many posters would not be interested in the mechanics I think should be in a crpg. They would find them tedious (like resource management, weight restrictions, need to consume food otherwise starvation occurs etc.). Games like Realms of Arkania series. I have also played crpgs where there was no or extremely limited healing magic.

 

...

 

Also Healing Mist is not a healing spell, because the healing spell always hits, a grenade can miss its target if thrown improperly.

 

I agree that even in DA:O the injuries were lacking. They only happened if a party member fell, or if you picked the wrong item in the carta hideout's crates. I think chests should have been armed with traps that inflict injuries, and I think certain attacks from enemies should have caused injuries.

 

Maybe they wouldn't. Just as many aren't interested in friendly fire. But that's solved with the option to turn these things off.

 

But why is that? Because the game design makes it so. Theoretically a healing spell should be able to miss its target.

[Hexoduen]

Unlike in other crpgs where the cleric, priest or druid (not the mage) had the cure light, minor or major wound spell or the character had to be taken to a temple for healing or a certain number of days of rest were required for the wound to heal.

 

Most of this was removed because of requests from gamers who found these mechanics to be tedious. As far as EA's sale strategy EA responds to the feedback it receives. If a majority of gamers requested a game like BG1 or BG2 or some earlier crpgs EA would provide it if there is money to be made. If EA thought people wanted to buy pet rocks again EA would sell them.

 

Just reading some of the posts made by posters on this forum over time shows that many posters would not be interested in the mechanics I think should be in a crpg. They would find them tedious (like resource management, weight restrictions, need to consume food otherwise starvation occurs etc.). Games like Realms of Arkania series. I have also played crpgs where there was no or extremely limited healing magic.

 

So EA/Bioware is not exactly wrong in their approach. As far as diversity in classes DAI has the same basic classes as DAO (Warrior, Rogue and Mage). Specializations are somewhat different. The cleric, priest or druid class was eliminated due to world state restrictions and lore.

 

There's no lore in letting Varric & Co. handle reviving with the click of a button.

 

And that's just the thing, there's not a lot of diversity anymore. There's no healer class, anyone can throw a stupid grenade, enemy mages are generic respawns, combat has become so simple and repetitive that it makes custom tactics redundant. Warrior/rogue/mage all have around 20 abilities, with the removal of attribute allocation we have less freedom in building classes, willpower now increases damage like everything else, 8 slot quickbar, simplification, simplification, damage, damage, damage, so the tank-bear will die faster *sigh* Rant over.

 

You're right that EA/Bioware is not wrong in their approach, DAI was a commercial success. I bought it because I love Dragon Age (games, books, films, comics ...), but I hate seeing the RPG toned down with each release.

 

Healing injuries by visiting temples or resting would have been interesting, I'd love that

[Sidney]

Injuries were a sorry mechanism because of the massive potion spamming. The alternative of trucking your butt back to town is also equally silly since about 95% of the time that means walking through empty dungeon, fast traveling to a safe zone and healing and then reverse. That is burdensome but not complex or interesting. It is just tedious but tedious and player hating elements seem to be popular mechanisms with some.

I'm still amazed that so many people are so hung up on healer and having a healer. Give it up, I lost my monk all the way back in DAO there was no unarmed warrior but the monk fans aren't constantly droning on about that - I like to think we are better than that. The fact that games have had that class is no, zero, zip, zilch, nada justification for having them moving forward because it essentially says that you must have these things and there is no way to innovate or evolve. That's silly.

Let's have a glorious thought experiment about exactly really what would change with healing spells? Functionally not much because instead of the blue bar dropping and being refreshed the red bar would drop and get refreshed. The difference is that as e red bar is permanent that healing doesn't drop and thus the game gets even easier. The barrier is not a simple mechanism. Standing about and using group heal, sucking down an endless set of potions and then healing everyone back up to full health all the time is brainless. The barrier because it isn't permanent does require more management for good or ill.

Like I said you look at POE and you see the same groping towards a tactical resource (barrier-endurance) and a strategic one (health).

[Hexoduen]

Injuries were a sorry mechanism because of the massive potion spamming. The alternative of trucking your butt back to town is also equally silly since about 95% of the time that means walking through empty dungeon, fast traveling to a safe zone and healing and then reverse. That is burdensome but not complex or interesting. It is just tedious but tedious and player hating elements seem to be popular mechanisms with some.

I'm still amazed that so many people are so hung up on healer and having a healer. Give it up, I lost my monk all the way back in DAO there was no unarmed warrior but the monk fans aren't constantly droning on about that - I like to think we are better than that. The fact that games have had that class is no, zero, zip, zilch, nada justification for having them moving forward because it essentially says that you must have these things and there is no way to innovate or evolve. That's silly.

 

The interesting part of an injury system to me is that I'm more careful in combat, don't want to end up with a broken leg.

 

We already have trucking back to town when our potions are up. That dungeon is not empty, not with Inquisition's respawn rate. I'd rather backtrack through an empty cave, especially with the environments Bioware created.

 

Search button spamming, now that's tedious. I'm standing next to a stone, and can see a pile of papers on the stone, but can I loot them? No. I have to press Search to do a sonar pulse scan with bling sound-effect, then I can loot them

 

Removing the healer was not going forward, it just meant fewer options to play with. DAI has been praised by the critics (and I do think it's an amazing game), but they also pointed out that combat lacks options. I agree, which is why I'd prefer a system with more diversity such as Baldur's Gate. Then it'd be up to the player to choose how to stay alive

[Dai Grepher]

Injuries were a sorry mechanism because of the massive potion spamming. The alternative of trucking your butt back to town is also equally silly since about 95% of the time that means walking through empty dungeon, fast traveling to a safe zone and healing and then reverse. That is burdensome but not complex or interesting. It is just tedious but tedious and player hating elements seem to be popular mechanisms with some.

...

Let's have a glorious thought experiment about exactly really what would change with healing spells? Functionally not much because instead of the blue bar dropping and being refreshed the red bar would drop and get refreshed. The difference is that as e red bar is permanent that healing doesn't drop and thus the game gets even easier. The barrier is not a simple mechanism. Standing about and using group heal, sucking down an endless set of potions and then healing everyone back up to full health all the time is brainless. The barrier because it isn't permanent does require more management for good or ill.

 

You're arguing against points that we never made. No one wrote anything about how the gameplay would work under dungeon crawl scenarios. You might not have to drag the wounded party back to town, but rather a safe place within the dungeon that has been previously secured. You might also just want to leave the wounded party members in that area and take fresh ones with you. That way, you can rotate the party. While one set rests and recovers off-screen, your fresh party members continue to clear the dungeon. So there are a few different ways to implement that.

 

The barrier bar drops automatically, for one thing, unlike the health bar. Plus you STILL have the health bar being depleted anyway once the barrier bar drops. So what would change? The health bar would drop, but then be replenished by the healing, and it would stay there until attacked again. You complain about constantly healing, but that's exactly the same case with the barrier. Opening to a fight, barrier. That barrier drops, another barrier. That barrier drops, new barrier. And if you don't barrier juggle then you get damaged, and you STILL have to heal, and you still have to rely on barriers in the next fight.

[Realmzmaster]

I agree that even in DA:O the injuries were lacking. They only happened if a party member fell, or if you picked the wrong item in the carta hideout's crates. I think chests should have been armed with traps that inflict injuries, and I think certain attacks from enemies should have caused injuries.

 

Maybe they wouldn't. Just as many aren't interested in friendly fire. But that's solved with the option to turn these things off.

 

But why is that? Because the game design makes it so. Theoretically a healing spell should be able to miss its target.

 

Theoretically a healing spell or any spell should be able to miss, but that has yet to be implemented in any crpg I know of. Implementations have included spells fizzling or being interrupted, but once the spell is successfully cast it always hits. For example the magic missile never misses once successfully cast.

[Realmzmaster]

There's no lore in letting Varric & Co. handle reviving with the click of a button.

 

And that's just the thing, there's not a lot of diversity anymore. There's no healer class, anyone can throw a stupid grenade, enemy mages are generic respawns, combat has become so simple and repetitive that it makes custom tactics redundant. Warrior/rogue/mage all have around 20 abilities, with the removal of attribute allocation we have less freedom in building our classes, wisdom now increases damage like everything else, 8 slot quickbar, simplification, simplification, damage, damage, damage, so the tank-bear will die faster *sigh* Rant over.

 

You're right that EA/Bioware is not wrong in their approach, DAI was a commercial success. I bought it because I love Dragon Age (games, books, films, comics ...), but I hate seeing the RPG toned down with each release.

 

Healing injuries by visiting temples or resting would have been interesting, I'd love that

 

Healing in temples and resting use to be the norm in games like BG1 and BG2 and many early crpgs based on D & D and some other rulesets. Weight restrictions were used. Each class had a basic amount of weight that could be worn and carried based on strength. Some gamers found those mechanisms to be tedious and not fun.  There were also multiple classes like barbarian, paladin etc.

 

Those types of crpgs (from what I can tell) only appeal to certain gamers (like me!), whose numbers are not enough to support a triple AAA game. For example a post I read about Witcher 3 was complaining because crafting materials had weight (DAI crafting materials have no weight) that counted in the weight carry. So that half of the weight carry was in crafting materials. (A patch is suppose to change that). 

 

Take Pillars of Eternity if it sells over 500,000 copies would be considered a great success. If Witcher 3 or DAI sold only 500,000 copies they would be flops

[Sidney]

The interesting part of an injury system to me is that I'm more careful in combat, don't want to end up with a broken leg.
 
We already have trucking back to town when our potions are up. That dungeon is not empty, not with Inquisition's respawn rate. I'd rather backtrack through an empty cave, especially with the environments Bioware created.
 
Search button spamming, now that's tedious. I'm standing next to a stone, and can see a pile of papers on the stone, but can I loot them? No. I have to press Search to do a sonar pulse scan with bling sound-effect, then I can loot them
 
Removing the healer was not going forward, it just meant fewer options to play with. DAI has been praised by the critics (and I do think it's an amazing game), but they also pointed out that combat lacks options. I agree, which is why I'd prefer a system with more diversity such as Baldur's Gate. Then it'd be up to the player to choose how to stay alive

I never blinked at injuries in DAO or BG. To make it work you have to grossly limit potions to magic to treat them or it becomes incidental. You can trade in the boredom of the tedious or the boredom of the routine. Neither one really works. Death in BG at least cost you 1 point of cons when you got resurrected although, again, that cost was fairly minimal if you were in the ranges where you got no benefit or penalty for CON.

The sonar button did suck but searching as a whole has been something pretty poor even going back toBG where stealth and searching were the same thing.

I still don't see why losing healer means anything. Functionally you either keep the healer and lose the barrier focused mages or vice versa -- because both would be insanely unbalanced. You have someone whose job it is to keep your party alive, that function still exists it just doesn't happen to fill the red bar instead of the blue one. That you find that so jarring is hard to fathom. Again, it is more a traditionalism than a rational stand.

[Sidney]

Healing in temples and resting use to be the norm in games like BG1 and BG2 and many early crpgs based on D & D and some other rulesets. Weight restrictions were used. Each class had a basic amount of weight that could be worn and carried based on strength. Some gamers found those mechanisms to be tedious and not fun.  There were also multiple classes like barbarian, paladin etc.
 
Those types of crpgs (from what I can tell) only appeal to certain gamers (like me!), whose numbers are not enough to support a triple AAA game. For example a post I read about Witcher 3 was complaining because crafting materials had weight (DAI crafting materials have no weight) that counted in the weight carry. So that half of the weight carry was in crafting materials. (A patch is suppose to change that). 
 
Take Pillars of Eternity if it sells over 500,000 copies would be considered a great success. If Witcher 3 or DAI sold only 500,000 copies they would be flops

Weight is usually awful. You can't make a claim to anything when weight restrictions let you carry 5 suits of armor, a blizzard of swords and enough bottles to keep coca cola in business for a couple of months -- oh and enough weeds, roots and fungi to start your own nursery. Either stop lying about how it matters and is anything other than juggling different kinds of vendor trash and go to something paper-dollish like the old XCOM games had or just accept that there is no real meaningful limit. In BG the terrible thing was that your theif was the lock picker and typically got stuff but couldn't carry anything so shuffling trash from him to a warrior who could carry was always a joy. Even POE has walked away from weight and with the Stash given functionally, at least so far, unlimited inventory.

[Realmzmaster]

Weight is usually awful. You can't make a claim to anything when weight restrictions let you carry 5 suits of armor, a blizzard of swords and enough bottles to keep coca cola in business for a couple of months -- oh and enough weeds, roots and fungi to start your own nursery. Either stop lying about how it matters and is anything other than juggling different kinds of vendor trash and go to something paper-dollish like the old XCOM games had or just accept that there is no real meaningful limit. In BG the terrible thing was that your theif was the lock picker and typically got stuff but couldn't carry anything so shuffling trash from him to a warrior who could carry was always a joy. Even POE has walked away from weight and with the Stash given functionally, at least so far, unlimited inventory.

 

Depends on how the weight restrictions are written and used. If a character was carry to much there is an encumbrance factor that effects speed and endurance especially in combat. Carrying five suits of armor unless the character was incredibly strong would task that character to the point of being ineffective in battle especially in a turn based game with initiative that character would almost always come last.

 

In an action based game the character could basically be on the defensive the whole battle with fatigue setting in much quicker. It comes down execution.

[Hexoduen]

I still don't see why losing healer means anything. Functionally you either keep the healer and lose the barrier focused mages or vice versa -- because both would be insanely unbalanced. You have someone whose job it is to keep your party alive, that function still exists it just doesn't happen to fill the red bar instead of the blue one. That you find that so jarring is hard to fathom. Again, it is more a traditionalism than a rational stand.

 

Lack of options. Character classes and combat may be flashy and fun to jump into from the get-go, but quickly became boring to me since there really isn't a lot of possibilities to play with.

 

Another way of putting it is that I prefer 40 hairstyles as opposed to 1, but hey, to each his own.

[Hexoduen]

Healing in temples and resting use to be the norm in games like BG1 and BG2 and many early crpgs based on D & D and some other rulesets. Weight restrictions were used. Each class had a basic amount of weight that could be worn and carried based on strength. Some gamers found those mechanisms to be tedious and not fun.  There were also multiple classes like barbarian, paladin etc.

 

Those types of crpgs (from what I can tell) only appeal to certain gamers (like me!), whose numbers are not enough to support a triple AAA game. For example a post I read about Witcher 3 was complaining because crafting materials had weight (DAI crafting materials have no weight) that counted in the weight carry. So that half of the weight carry was in crafting materials. (A patch is suppose to change that). 

 

Take Pillars of Eternity if it sells over 500,000 copies would be considered a great success. If Witcher 3 or DAI sold only 500,000 copies they would be flops

 

I like how Fallout New Vegas handled this, I always play with its hardcore mode on. Some of the things this mode changes is that you have to eat, sleep and drink to survive, ammunition have weight, companions can die permanently and broken limbs don't heal as easily.

 

Hope DA4 will add a hardcore mode, it would make gameplay more interesting for those of us who like features with a little more depth

[Sidney]

Depends on how the weight restrictions are written and used. If a character was carry to much there is an encumbrance factor that effects speed and endurance especially in combat. Carrying five suits of armor unless the character was incredibly strong would task that character to the point of being ineffective in battle especially in a turn based game with initiative that character would almost always come last.
 
In an action based game the character could basically be on the defensive the whole battle with fatigue setting in much quicker. It comes down execution.

Even back in BG thee was a consequence...you were slow or couldn't move at all. That isn't the issue.

The problem is that in most scenarios weight limits contravene reality where weight, honestly, isn't the problem but encumberance. 50 healing potions might not weight that much but there is just no way to carry them even if they are shot glass sized. Most of the issues with weight go back to the problems of trash looting and having to run a junk dealership as part of your game. No game has ever assumed money has weight, which is funny because especially as coins that crap is heavy, so it is only an effect of juggling stuff even the players call vendor trash. The better solution to weight is that you either loot special items (magical, unique) or money. We all love the fun of getting the flaming sword of killmorbaddies but not so much the rusted dagger or worn boots.

[Sidney]

Lack of options. Character classes and combat may be flashy and fun to jump into from the get-go, but quickly became boring to me since there really isn't a lot of possibilities to play with.
 
Another way of putting it is that I prefer 40 hairstyles as opposed to 1, but hey, to each his own.

The problem is that I can look at DAO and say it has one fewer role than DAI - there is no barrier generator function in DAO just a healer. So they took away one type who has the job of keeping your party in the fight and exchanged it with another role. There is no "lost" depth even at the most simplistic level of counting combat functions.

The DAI system forces you to manage a tactical resource, barriers, and also a strategic one health. Your goal with barriers is always to preserve health because that depleting is the ender for your current quest. The penalty is using a scarce resource (potion) or time (resting at a base). DAO never forced any decisions or choice because you just spammed out healing and potions. DA2 fought this same battle by tossing cool downs on potions to go with the cool down on spells. It worked but the problem was there was still no restriction on healing overall. You could always enter a battle with full on health.

POE also doesn't heal health (there are some perks or whatever they call them) that do that but all the spells refresh/restore your endurance which is, again, refreshing a tactical resource not the strategic one of health. I find it fascinating to see both POE and DAI grappling with the same problem of how to make combat challenging/dangerous not just in each encounter but as a series of linked encounters.

As to hairstyle, having 13 of the exact same hairstyle the way DAI does sort of gets to the fact that having more isn't really having better. I'd prefer having 8 good hairstyles as opposed to the however many trash ones we have no.

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

The lack of in-combat healing isn't so much the problem, in my experience. It's the horrendous team AI.

All the healing potions get burned from the dumbest damage. Casters and archers stand under the feet of giants and get squashed… refuse to move off of magic mines, or away from charging tower shield buffoons. They all end up chugging your potions to counteract their stupidity.

[Iakus]

There are a few problems with this change.

 

1. They said it was done for strategy; to make players play carefully and plan their attacks, defenses, and times of healing. But this is defeated by camps. You can just return to a nearby camp to heal and restock. So no, there really isn't any strategy involved. The numerous supply caches lying around in the main quests also defeats this. Also, the un/equip health item exploit lets you heal in the field. So they failed to implement strategy.

 

It was done for multiplayer strategy.  It's a multiplayer combat system in a SP game.

[The Oracle]

The lack of in-combat healing isn't so much the problem, in my experience. It's the horrendous team AI.

All the healing potions get burned from the dumbest damage. Casters and archers stand under the feet of giants and get squashed… refuse to move off of magic mines, or away from charging tower shield buffoons. They all end up chugging your potions to counteract their stupidity.

 

This. If our companions had some proper AI and Tactics, it wouldn't be so bad. Also, as someone said above, the ability to swap weapon sets during a fight should be brought back. That my rogue can't put down a bow to draw their daggers, is a bit stupid.

[Sidney]

It was done for multiplayer strategy.  It's a multiplayer combat system in a SP game.

I know you blame everything on MP but there is nothing about this that really focuses on MP. MP could, as BG proved, have health healing just like it had barrier refreshing. POE is doing a similar thing as DAI with no MP in the game.

Here is the basic problem. Fights in any fantasy RPG are definitely not designed to kill you unless it is a "killer" fight like a boss fight and, again, you know those fights when you get to them. In Jarvia's hideout you never died at the front door, you might have died fighting Jarvia. Most fights ironically carry almost no risk and only reward (gold + XP). No one was worried about dying off in random room X in the Deep Roads. So the question is how do you create tension in those fights because there was none in DAO mostly because of healing spam via potions and spells. Removing health healing makes fights "dangerous" at least at an attritional level. Room X might not be dangerous in and of itself but is dangerous because if it siphons off 10% of your health it threatens your survival in Room Y or Room Z down the road.

[Iakus]

I know you blame everything on MP but there is nothing about this that really focuses on MP. MP could, as BG proved, have health healing just like it had barrier refreshing. POE is doing a similar thing as DAI with no MP in the game.

Here is the basic problem. Fights in any fantasy RPG are definitely not designed to kill you unless it is a "killer" fight like a boss fight and, again, you know those fights when you get to them. In Jarvia's hideout you never died at the front door, you might have died fighting Jarvia. Most fights ironically carry almost no risk and only reward (gold + XP). No one was worried about dying off in random room X in the Deep Roads. So the question is how do you create tension in those fights because there was none in DAO mostly because of healing spam via potions and spells. Removing health healing makes fights "dangerous" at least at an attritional level. Room X might not be dangerous in and of itself but is dangerous because if it siphons off 10% of your health it threatens your survival in Room Y or Room Z down the road.

I have played PoE, and no, there is healing magic, it jsut works differently.

 

And while yesthere was healing magic in DAO, it worked on a cooldown.  As did potions.   DAO's real flaw was that all the potion types were on separate cooldowns.

 

Heck, didn't you hear the complaints in DA2 how Anders was the only "real healer" in the game?  And there was only one healing potion type in that game, and so only one cooldown.

 

I gave DAI's system a shot.  Go back to prerelease posts and  you'll see that yes I was willing to keep my mind open.  But after multiple playthroughs, I have to come down on the side of those not happy with it.  It's not game-breaking.  But it clearly was designed with MP front and center

[Realmzmaster]

Even back in BG thee was a consequence...you were slow or couldn't move at all. That isn't the issue.

The problem is that in most scenarios weight limits contravene reality where weight, honestly, isn't the problem but encumberance. 50 healing potions might not weight that much but there is just no way to carry them even if they are shot glass sized. Most of the issues with weight go back to the problems of trash looting and having to run a junk dealership as part of your game. No game has ever assumed money has weight, which is funny because especially as coins that crap is heavy, so it is only an effect of juggling stuff even the players call vendor trash. The better solution to weight is that you either loot special items (magical, unique) or money. We all love the fun of getting the flaming sword of killmorbaddies but not so much the rusted dagger or worn boots.

 

Not quite, I remember a game series called Alternate Reality for the 8-bits (City and Dungeon) gave money weight. (The games also had jobs where the character could work for money). The games had a banking system (Four banks at different parts of the city and two banks in the Dungeon as I recall). The character could deposit money to help lessen the weight and withdraw money when necessary. (Of course during banking hours).

 

Being able to hold more than 10 potions (of any type) on a character has always been a beef of mine. Now having a party of six each having the maximum of 10 potions with the ability to swap between characters made more sense. The party as a whole could have 60 potions. But only a handful of games operated that way.

[FKA_Servo]

Not quite, I remember a game series called Alternate Reality for the 8-bits (City and Dungeon) gave money weight. (The games also had jobs where the character could work for money). The games had a banking system (Four banks at different parts of the city and two banks in the Dungeon as I recall). The character could deposit money to help lessen the weight and withdraw money when necessary. (Of course during banking hours).

 

Been about a decade and then some since I've fired it up, but I'm pretty sure Daggerfall gold had weight as well. You could deposit your cash in banks and obtain a letters of credit to carry around with you.