17 réponses à ce sujet

[PapaCharlie9]

I'm doing a no crafted gear Nightmare run with a 2H Qunari warrior.

 

TL;DR, go with Blackwall/Solas/Vivienne or Cass/Sera/Solas? Or something else?

 

Normally, I'd craft the heck out of the party's gear in prep for the Templar/Champions of the Just quest/Envy demon boss and breeze through it with Cass, Sera and Solas. Now, without crafted gear, I'm not sure what the best combination of party members would be.

 

Being a 2H warrior pre-specialization is already a pretty big liability vs the Envy demon. I'm tempted to keep the IQ out of the way of the Envy demon with Charging Bull and just pick off the adds when they come. That argues to take a tougher warrior to tank and keep aggro away from the squishier characters, so Cass or Blackwall seems like a safe bet.

 

Need at least one mage for barrier spam, but I'm thinking maybe a second is good to have for backup and some big damage dealing, like Static Cage or Fire Mine? Mages are so squishy though, I kind of expect whatever mages I bring to be napping before the battle is over.

 

And then there's Sera. With Leaping Shot she does a pretty good job of surviving, but I'd have to give up one of the above other spots to have her. I'm not sure her damage output can compete with a second mage doing Static Cage or Fire Mine. So, survivability or damage output? The latter is usually the right choice, but this early in the game maybe survivability is more important?

 

Another question: what to put in the third potion slot? MO for the warriors/rogue, Bees for the mages? Bees for all?

[capn233]

I have a game in limbo where I was planning to do something similar.  Glamazon 2H and no gear crafting, sitting around before Champions or Whispers.

 

Since I haven't played this mission yet, I guess I should refrain from commenting.  But without seeing this thread I would have probably just went into the mission with my early game default squad of Cass, Sera and Solas.  Everyone with Bees (or maybe one with Antivan Fire).  I would probably just go regen for the tank instead of MO.  I will need to take a look at what gear I have picked up so far.  Been playing more MP (and ME2) which is why this run stalled out.

 

What level are you, how much side questing have you done?

[PapaCharlie9]

 

What level are you, how much side questing have you done?

Mid level 6 and only enough side questing to get agents for 12 health potions and to get MO recipe. Gear is pretty pathetic, relatively speaking.  I've looted good gear, but most of it is has a level requirement higher than 6.

[capn233]

I will need to take a look at where I am at exactly, but I might be one level higher.  I know I did Astrarium in Storm Coast for the bow, and I think I did swing by Forbidden Oasis, which means I need a couple points before I can actually do the next mission.  I didn't do horsemaster or the merc quests in Hinterlands.  I don't think I have picked up Vale yet either.

 

Dropped gear is pretty pitiful early.  I was running the Qunari 2H axe, and it is like giving enemies paper cuts.

 

Since it might be relevant here, is there a better way of animation canceling 2H auto attacks in SP other than the search ping?  That seemed somewhat unreliable for me (might be bad timing) relative to sprint key cancel in MP.

[andy6915]

Mid level 6 and only enough side questing to get agents for 12 health potions and to get MO recipe. Gear is pretty pathetic, relatively speaking.  I've looted good gear, but most of it is has a level requirement higher than 6.

 

I hope you're not doing it that early. Maybe it's because I always do nearly everything else first, but I usually do the mage/templar quest at level 9 or 10.

[The Baconer]

Both Alexius and Envy come down to keeping the boss focused on the tank while letting everyone else chip down its health with ranged attacks. Because of the situation you're having with gear, 2H Warrior is coincidentally the best suited for tanking Envy. You can use Combat Roll to avoid the teleport attack, and then either use Charging Bull or the pillars to avoid its projectile attack.

[capn233]

I hope you're not doing it that early. Maybe it's because I always do nearly everything else first, but I usually do the mage/templar quest at level 9 or 10.

 

Yeah I usually wait for Level 8 so Sera can equip Bane of Red Crossing.

 

If I was going to do that mission at Level 6 I might just go Cass, Vivienne and Solas for the squad.  Maybe Inquisitor as tank would work, but 2H level 6's points are spread pretty thin.  It won't be practical to have both Combat Roll and Charging Bull with 7 talent points.

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks all, good suggestions. I've breezed through Templars as low as level 5, but obviously not on Nightmare, so I think I'm underestimating how hard it might be. Handicapping with no crafted gear is a challenge.

 

A couple of my better loot items become available at Level 7, and since I'm half way there, makes sense to do some more levelling up before taking on the Envy demon. The level up will help with the Haven Raid as well.

[capn233]

I loaded up my game and I was Level 7, but just looking at the lost druffalo sign bumped me to 8.  I ended up finishing the tasks to recruit the horsemaster and went to the last Tyrdda location to start that clock.  I noticed that I forgot to get the MO recipe on Storm Coast, so I will need to pick it up.  I will probably do Champions after that.

 

I skipped the "Knowledge" perks so far, but I guess I messed around a lot more than I needed to in order to unlock the mission originally hence I will be over-leveled a bit.  Not that I will complain too much since the gear is better.  Bane of Red Crossing was practically double the base damage of Sera's previous bow, for instance.

 

I don't know that I have the discipline to try and go straight to Whispers or Champions at Level 4. Funny that is the start of the recommended range for them.

[PapaCharlie9]

 

I don't know that I have the discipline to try and go straight to Whispers or Champions at Level 4. Funny that is the start of the recommended range for them.

It was way easier before the duping glitch was patched out.

 

BTW, I found a video for a 2H warrior Nightmare Envy Demon battle. This player took Cass, Vivienne and Solas. Seems to work fine, although at level 10. I'll go with Blackwall, Vivienne and Solas at level 7 and see how things go.

 

[capn233]

Yeah, I ended up doing it at Level 8 for the whole squad, with Cass, Sera and Solas.  I considered going with Vivienne, but I didn't have a decent mage armor for her, and I didn't feel like trying to get her one.  I did have the masterwork scout armor for Sera though + Bane of Red Crossing.  My weapon was the "Warlord Greatsword" from the lake in the Hinterlands (93 AOE base).  Cassandra and I had regen and bees, Sera had MO and Bees, and Solas had Lyrium and Bees.  FF on.

 

A couple of things: 

 

I might have put too many active powers relative to passives on Cassandra (SW, Payback, Challenge, War Cry, Charging Bull) but the main thing is she doesn't use SW to its full potential, and I only bothered to manually set it once.  She got a couple good hits on me with CB and Payback, but it wasn't a huge deal.

 

Solas and Sera I just had hold position relatively near the start.  I actually didn't end up using the Lyrium and MO although that might have helped slightly.  If you don't have tempered glass flasks, I would go grenades over the tonics at this point, but it is up to you.  I also had Rock Armor available, which I could have taken on Cass, but I didn't bother.  I wasn't stingy on Bees, so altogether used 6 jars total.  All on Envy, not any on adds.

 

My inquisitor had Grappling Chain+, Black and Slash, Mighty Blow+, Charging Bull+ and Challenge, but I never used Challenge.  I have the Crippling Blows passive, but crit chance is only like 10% so not really that important (was on the way to Combat Roll).  Chain is probably the best power I had against Envy, so I was doing something relatively similar as the player was in that video (Chain-> Mighty Blow).  Otherwise just auto attacks, or if Cass was knocked down by the demon, I might go with Charging Bull (so as to do some damage and not hit Cass).

 

The "mirror" form, or whatever you want to call it, is actually more irritating, IMO.  Block and Slash will work against the basic attacks but not against its mighty blow.  Chain does work as well, so you can also pull that form off of a squadmate if need be.

 

Anyway I ended up burning 4 health pots and the 6 bees.  Would have been less health with no FF.  There was a bit of standing around with 2H, mainly because I didn't want to get hit by the terror attack, or knocked down by the unblockable attacks.  Plus it was hard to tell when Cass was going to smack me if I stood near her and auto attacked.  Also seemed like Envy's slow field works better than the DC in MP because it was harder to charge out.  That said, I could have spent even more Bees and just stood around more.

[capn233]

^Probably wrote more than needed above since 2H is pretty strong against Templar due to mostly physical attacks.  But I just did Heart Shall Burn and wanted to mention a couple things that might be helpful...

 

In game time, I went in more or less right after the above (just talking to people no quests in between) so I was 9 and party started the mission at 8, but hit 9 right after clearing the town the first time.  I kept the same team, potions, etc as Champions.  In retrospect, it might have made my life easier to swap Sera for a mage so I could have had an extra Dispel to help with barriers and fire mine spam.

 

Of course, it would have also helped to do a few more side missions beforehand... specifically clearing out the merc fortress in the Hinterlands (IIRC decent warrior armor drop there, although armor rating doesn't help v magic), and picking up more of the accessible shards to unlock more fire resistance in the Oasis temple.  Cass had a fire resistance cowl, so that helped her a little.  I didn't have any other fire gear.

 

In any event, it wasn't like it was impossible, I just drank more health potions than I would have liked, and my characters damage output wasn't too great.  Chain->MB on the enemy mages is decent, but that typically only took them to half health, so I would need to CB them for another knockdown.

 

Fiona is easily enough locked down by Bees though, and I spent four total jars all on the last catapult.  The squad was also able to hold them off on their own after a wave or so, so I just kept aiming the catapult.

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks for the details of your battles, sounds like you had fun.
 

FF on.

Yikes! I'm interested in making NM more challenging, but not that interested. Kudos.
 

Cassandra (SW, Payback, Challenge, War Cry, Charging Bull) but the main thing is she doesn't use SW to its full potential, and I only bothered to manually set it once.

Was it upgraded? I've been surprised at how often Cass does use upgraded SW, appropriately, and only as long as needed. Sometimes just to deflect a single arrow shot.
 

My inquisitor had Grappling Chain+, Black and Slash, Mighty Blow+, Charging Bull+ and Challenge, but I never used Challenge.  I have the Crippling Blows passive, but crit chance is only like 10% so not really that important (was on the way to Combat Roll).  Chain is probably the best power I had against Envy, so I was doing something relatively similar as the player was in that video (Chain-> Mighty Blow).

Looks like I made a bad choice. I was torn between grappling chain and the Vanguard passives. I went with the Vanguard passives. And after respecing Solas and Vivienne, I'm flat broke, so I can't respec my IQ without going and getting more loot.

Re: Haven Raid

Yeah, I like having double dispel for the Fire Mines and Bees for Fiona. And of course there is always the option of kiting away from the spellbinders.

[PapaCharlie9]

Quest completed.

Bees were the key. Night and day. Without Bees, it took forever to chip away the first 25% of health on the Envy demon. With Bees, I knocked down the next 60% of its health in under a minute. It's cool that the bees follow it around even when it goes into the Fade to ambush you. Some of the damage numbers for the bees were critical and the grenade was getting mid 3 digits to mid 4 digits of damage. The best our weapons were doing were low 3 digits, but mostly 2 digits. I probably could have gone at level 6 and just let Bees do all the work.

I had Blackwall tank with Challenge so the Envy demon focused nearly all of its attacks on that poor guy. I did have him using upgraded SW as preferred skill and that worked pretty well, he only died once. I had Vivienne spamming Fire Mine and Barrier and Solas spamming Energy Barrage and Barrier.

I kept my 2H IQ out of the way mostly, just picked off adds and tossed grenades. I got into some kind of glitch state, where the grenade button would do either nothing or just an auto-attack, in or out of tactical. The video I took has these ridiculous moments where the IQ is just standing there swinging at air, because I was mashing on the grenade button and nothing was happening.

Thanks for all the help.

[themikefest]

I've fought the Envy demon at level 6 a couple of times. I never had too much of problem fighting it no matter the difficulty

[capn233]

 
Was it upgraded? I've been surprised at how often Cass does use upgraded SW, appropriately, and only as long as needed. Sometimes just to deflect a single arrow shot.

 

It wasn't upgraded, but I think what actually was happening then was she was low on stamina but I didn't pay close enough attention.  CB wasn't upgraded for the free next power, and I had all her powers active.  It wasn't completely horrible, but human probably does it more efficiently.

 

Bees or any grenades are relatively strong early game since they have flat damage numbers so they aren't dependent on your gear, and enemies have lower total HP pool.

[PapaCharlie9]

I've fought the Envy demon at level 6 a couple of times. I never had too much of problem fighting it no matter the difficulty

Me too, but I was crafting gear for those. This run, no crafted gear as a handicap.

[capn233]

^I am especially missing the ability to up crit chance so far.

 

***

 

Hopefully this doesn't qualify as a threadjack, but yesterday I noticed I had done something stupid.  I had gone to Forbidden Oasis before Champions, even picked up all the shards there.  But I hadn't actually gone into the temple (which somewhat defeats the purpose of picking up the shards that early).  Noticed after I checked attributes yesterday.  D'oh.  Explains partly why fire wraiths seemed so much worse than I expected (I had run through Crestwood to the rift in the lake the night before).

 

Anyway, I went back to Storm Coast to get more shards and on a whim took Blackwall, Vivienne and Solas.  Vivienne was a complete liability probably in no small part due to the crappy gear she had, but I am having a problem figuring out what a decent build would be on her that can run well on autopilot, and is also FF friendly.  I am thinking about just spec'ing her all into elemental trees and spirit and avoiding KE altogether for now (level 12).  Not sure.

 

I don't think I am going to go to the wiki and try to look everything up though.  I am headed to Exalted Plains to get the elven mage armor for Solas though since I remember where it is.