118 réponses à ce sujet

[N7Jamaican]

Every character was important -- in my opinion.  Some more so than others.

[Fixers0]

Every character was important -- in my opinion.  Some more so than others.

 

 

too bade most of said characters could die by the end of the second installement.

 

Not to mention you could skip both the Tuchanka and Quarian\geth in ME2 and basicially miss out on everything that is important in ME3. 

[Drone223]

I'm a Civil Engineer. That has nothing to do with cooking. Yet I am a pretty good cook.

It's like I learnt something new! Amazing!

Not a good comparison, I seriously doubt that being an information broker is as simple as the series makes it out to be.

Neither did the Illusive Man in his backstory.

Plenty of people have problems with the evolution comics.

[Simfam]

I read the first word as Avdol.

 

 

It was a much better thread before I read it right.

[Han Shot First]

Regarding experience...

 

I agree that usually experience in a field is required to be proficient in that field. That is generally true. However there always exceptions, and sometimes people prove to be naturals and excel despite a lack of experience.

 

A good example of that is Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis.

 

If you had to bet on who was going to turn out to be better war president in 1861, without the benefit of knowing how the American Civil War was going to play out, you would have bet your money on Jefferson Davis. On paper Davis was far more qualified than Lincoln. It wasn't even close. Davis was a West Point graduate, he had combat experience and served with distinction as a regimental commander during the Mexican-American War, he had served multiple terms in the Senate, and was a not only a former Secretary of War for the United States, but considered one of the best men to have ever held that position at that point. Lincoln in contrast had practically no military experience and less political experience than Davis.

 

Yet Davis turned out to be largely a failure as war president and presided over the utter destruction of his 'nation,' while Lincoln led his to victory and went on to be considered one of the best, if not the best, war president in American history.

 

Another example would be Daniel Morgan. Prior to the American Revolution he had no command experience. Unlike most military officers of his era he had very humble origins, was uneducated and illiterate, had never attended a military academy, had never commanded large numbers of men prior to the American Revolution, and his prior military experience consisted of some skirmishing on the frontier against Native Americans as a militiaman, or working as a civilian teamster for the British Army during the French and Indian War. There was absolutely nothing in his background that suggested he'd be suitable for a battlefield command, yet during the war he would not only rise to general, but garner a reputation as the war's best tactician. His victory at Cowpens was that war's tactical masterpiece.

 

On that note Liara doing relatively well despite the lack of a good resume doesn't bother me too much. While they might be the exception, there are people who sometimes possess natural skills or instincts that allow them to succeed despite a lack of experience. It's not quite that far-fetched.

[BabyPuncher]

It's unfortunately incredibly difficult to show characters picking up skills I'm a video game. It relies on telling instead of showing, which is obviously a problem, but if that's all you got, that's all you got.

[Han Shot First]

[KaiserShep]

It's unfortunately incredibly difficult to show characters picking up skills I'm a video game. It relies on telling instead of showing, which is obviously a problem, but if that's all you got, that's all you got.

Well, at least ME2 gives us a 2 year gap of Shepard's absence for characters to change. 

[von uber]

Yes it is far-fetched. It's far-fetched because it is Liara. Any other character it's fine, but for some reason the rules are different for her.

 

I actually think it would be an interesting thing to study the reaction to this character. It puzzles me as to why she attracts such vitriol.

 

I mean take the 'She is forced on me' argument. She can be pretty much ignored in ME1 for most of the game; She is hardly in the second game (unless you buy the DLC especially featuring her) and in ME3 (due to Bioware's handling of the other characters) she stands in for a few of them, but even then a lot of the scenes are optional (for example people complain about the beacon scene in Shep's cabin, or comforting her after Thessia - both of which are entirely optional).

 

Really weird.

[themikefest]

Regarding experience...

 

On that note Liara doing relatively well despite the lack of a good resume doesn't bother me too much. While they might be the exception, there are people who sometimes possess natural skills or instincts that allow them to succeed despite a lack of experience. It's not quite that far-fetched.

Would that apply to liara being  a squadmate? Her background and no experience says she's not qualified to be on the squad.

[von uber]

Only (possibly ) in me1, although it is mentioned she fights off slavers and pirates on her digs. Same applies to Tali.
In the other two games we have canon scenes that show she can fight as well as anyone else.

[themikefest]

Only (possibly ) in me1, although it is mentioned she fights off slavers and pirates on her digs. Same applies to Tali.
In the other two games we have canon scenes that show she can fight as well as anyone else.

 

On Ilos after talking with Vigil,  she wants to stay and do some studying or whatever instead of stopping Saren. So her mind is not on the mission. She's a liability

 

After the broker is killed she cries like a baby. Why? Is she going to cry every time an enemy is killed. Yeah. Give her the pacifier

 

On Mars she has doubts about stopping the reapers. Again her mind is worrying about that crap instead of the mission. She's a liability

 

In the shuttle heading to Thessia, she says she can't be that callous. Well if you aren't, you're dead. Again she's a liability.

 

When facing Kai leng she freezes. Why didn't she shoot at the guy or at least jump away? Remember Mars? Ashley/Kaidan shot the evabot. Yes they did get seriously injured, but they didn't stand there doing nothing. That is the difference between someone who has training and someone who doesn't  

 

I don't care what she does in scenes. I would not have her on my squad because  her background doesn't support it. So what if she's fought pirates or whatever. Why would that qualify her to be a squadmate?

[Steelcan]

Yes it is far-fetched. It's far-fetched because it is Liara. Any other character it's fine, but for some reason the rules are different for her.

 

I actually think it would be an interesting thing to study the reaction to this character. It puzzles me as to why she attracts such vitriol.

 

I mean take the 'She is forced on me' argument. She can be pretty much ignored in ME1 for most of the game; She is hardly in the second game (unless you buy the DLC especially featuring her) and in ME3 (due to Bioware's handling of the other characters) she stands in for a few of them, but even then a lot of the scenes are optional (for example people complain about the beacon scene in Shep's cabin, or comforting her after Thessia - both of which are entirely optional).

 

Really weird.

We've said that it isn't fine with other characters, its just not as pronounced because she's the most prominent example.

 

And no many of her scenes are not optional, and when she hogs screentime and content like a Kardashian leaving the other returning characters and LI's with scraps for content it gets incredibly irksome.

[WittyUsername]

Without really seeing a good look at the gap between 1-2-3 for Liara, the transition of her personality is harder to see.

 

From 1 to 2, she started as naive and socially awkward, but that doesn't mean she can't learn and adapt to to those social skills, and personalities grow, and I think hers was in a direction that is plausible. Some people just have a natural talent for some things, and they might just start in that field and quickly surpass those that have been doing it all their life. 

 

That's true, and a character changing is called character development. But without seeing it, Liara may as well been a different character all together.

 

Honestly, because I didn't see her change, the Liara I knew in 1 felt dead to me.

 

Spoiler

And I had no problem cheating on her.

 

But yeah, I don't mind her becoming an information broker, but it just didn't match up to her personality because I never got to see her develop. It made my reunion with her felt... tacked on.

[Drone223]

We've said that it isn't fine with other characters, its just not as pronounced because she's the most prominent example.

 

And no many of her scenes are not optional, and when she hogs screentime and content like a Kardashian leaving the other returning characters and LI's with scraps for content it gets incredibly irksome.

Add to that some of her appearances are rather forced (I'm looking at you Paragon lost) just for the sake of having her in it.

[PaixaoPlayer]

God, people here cry for everything! 

[Quarian Master Race]

Only (possibly ) in me1, although it is mentioned she fights off slavers and pirates on her digs. Same applies to Tali.
In the other two games we have canon scenes that show she can fight as well as anyone else.

Not really. Tali's her closest counterpart in terms of experience, but we run into the quarian fighting off mercs (which is how she makes her case to be recruited). She has two different types of weapons training (much like Garrus and Wrex), and she was raised in a strict fashion by a father described as "a military man through and through" Its not hard to connect the dots even before ME2 further elaborates on her having a background with some military training. Liara is never given a possible background for her combat skills other than the typical asari education in biotics (and true to this has no weapons training in ME1, and only light weapons in later games).

Where in ME1 does Liara talk about fighting pirates/ slavers? Is it a unique dialouge on a certain mission or something I missed from her on ship conversation?

[Dantriges]

it´s mentioned on the wiki. IIRC she mentions it in conversation but I am not sure. It rings a bell though.

 

ME 2 elaborates on Tali having some military training?

[Quarian Master Race]

it´s mentioned on the wiki. IIRC she mentions it in conversation but I am not sure. It rings a bell though.

ME 2 elaborates on Tali having some military training?

I don't remember it in game, but Liara has tons of appearances in other media so I wouldn't dismiss it outright.

Yes, during her loyalty mission upon encountering Rael's body. She also mentions it in other places, such as unique dialogue during Turian Platoon in ME3.