10 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadohz]

The newer difficulties while welcomed presents a new set a problems that might or should be addressed.

 

1. Raise the level limit to 25 or 30.

- Players are able to powerlevel too quickly. The gen pop has better stats now meaning they are playing higher difficulties more often.

- Alternately, you could require players with X amount of Prestige points to level from 1- 25/30, while player have reached that milestone to maintain the 1-20 requirement. This would effective slow down top-player progression rate thus allowing those lower on the totem pole to catch up (at least until they hit the milestone).

2. XP carryover into a experience bank.

- One of those most common complaints is losing XP at level 19 to 20 graduation. It's also one of the areas of the game where most of the cheating occurs.

- Another common complaint is promotion grinding.

- What can be done is to give a Prestige point once a player has reached maxed level (currently 20). Any experience gained after that automatically rolls into an experience bank. The experience bank caps at total of experience required to hit max level. If the player hits the experience bank cap then they are awarded a Prestige point and the bank amount is reset back to 0 (starting over). If the player promotes the character before hit the bank cap then they are awarded those XP points to the respective character level.

- While it has the potential of nullifying the promotion system, it at least gives players the optional path of earning Prestige points without the downgrade necessity.

 

3. Games on higher difficulties are longer #1, increase default character speed.

- self-explanatory.

 

4. Games on higher difficulties are longer #2, XP loss due to crashes, kicks and other unintentional game exits.

- I get it. You don't want to give XP till the end of the game to discourage cheaters. It doesn't change the fact that it's a flawed design when you take into account the number of crashed games as well (see cheating comments below).

- There is a lot more XP being lost due to crashes on higher difficulties. It's exacerbated even more given the amount of time put into one game.

- Give out the XP at the end of every zone. Reset the XP pool after it's been divvied. Used in conjunction with the Sprint Rollover plan from #2 and changes to combat cheating (below), there should be a good compromise there.

5. Curb cheating by not encouraging it.
- Shared XP (equal split) is one of the worst divvy systems to use to discourage cheating. It actually encourages cheating especially when there aren't enough safeguards in place. Give XP based mostly on output, not participation.

- Thou shalt not commit idle-try. A fan favorite is drop in on a game an mooch your XP or to have a couple friends carry a low-level while he/she kicks back to watch a movie, feed the dog, run to the store, or whatever one of billion reasons I've heard over mic. If they are producing then don't reward them any XP.

- Noob-gates. Speaking of uninvited guests, make it mandatory to play 50-100 games of the previous difficulty to unlock the next harder difficulty. There are too many players wrecking games in a selfish pursuit to fast-track their stats. Players should be able to be invited to higher difficulty lobbies, but should be prevented from dropping in or creating their own higher difficulty lobbies until they've completed their milestones.

- Host-kicking. Not a favorite feature I'm sure but I think host should be given unilateral power to kick in lobby, not group vote. Once the game has started then it requires group vote to kick.

 

6. Swap group spawning for individual spawning.

- Group spawning especially on FC causes lag and may in some cases cause DC. On the larger maps or universally, spawn new mooks as other mooks are killed off on an individual basis (yes like ME3).

 

7. Disable global camera shake for Walking Bomb and weapon "explodes on kill". Fix issues with Barrier that cause lag/freeze.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

Update: For those of you confused by the XP table from #1, here's how a scaling table would work using the Alternative option:
Hypothetical levels 21 to 30 would be scaled in the same manner as 1-20. The next higher levels become exponentially larger. This would be more effective with option B. Go with this example.
Players with less than 100 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-20.

Players between 101 and 200 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-25.

Players between 201 and 300 have a level requirement of 1-30.

so and so forth.

 

Yes, #2 includes your promotion points with the rollover (for the one person who didn't pick up on it the second time I explained it).

[yarpenthemad21]

1. How you imagine level 30 or even 25 on current skill trees and 4 skills limit? It does not have any sense at all.

2. Who cares about prestige for the god sake?

3. Why not

4. Could work still what about medals?

5. Why you so elitist? Shared xp is best idea ever. Nobody would kill steal anything, rush ahead to "take enemies" alone.
Imagine a perilous game on which I enter as avvar or duelist. I would wreck everything on sight and you can't even hit anything.
For now players can just slack and gather pots in that time, nobody cares about someone killing things too fast. Why for the god sake you want to change it?
Whole point of private match is that friends can carry you and be afk for some time. In PuG game you have "kick" button for slackers.
Very very bad idea.
6. I would increase rate and speed of spawn for a lot. It's boring to chase around some wolfs.
7. Yes, it is annoying.

[Yallegro]

-You say you dislike powerlvling, then propose an exp bank that allows you to do just that. I play a tough game, really fast with my lvl 19 (or 35) and bam, tons on lvl ups.

 

-xp should be shared to avoid everyone playing xp hoarding characters

 

-They shouldn't handout exp for rage quits and incompletes, they should improve game stability

 

-Making it harder to promote now would create a morally unjustifiable gap between who is already heavily promoted and everyone else

[bug_age_inquisition]

I disagree with almost everything you said.

 

Promotion grinding will always be a pain in the rear end. It still takes a bloody hour if you take yourself into Nightmare when you're ready for it.

[Shadohz]

1. How you imagine level 30 or even 25 on current skill trees and 4 skills limit? It does not have any sense at all.

2. Who cares about prestige for the god sake?

3. Why not

4. Could work still what about medals?

5. Why you so elitist? Shared xp is best idea ever. Nobody would kill steal anything, rush ahead to "take enemies" alone.
Imagine a perilous game on which I enter as avvar or duelist. I would wreck everything on sight and you can't even hit anything.
For now players can just slack and gather pots in that time, nobody cares about someone killing things too fast. Why for the god sake you want to change it?
Whole point of private match is that friends can carry you and be afk for some time. In PuG game you have "kick" button for slackers.
Very very bad idea.
6. I would increase rate and speed of spawn for a lot. It's boring to chase around some wolfs.
7. Yes, it is annoying.

1. I never said that you should be given extra ability points beyond lvl 20. That was an entirely different idea I brought up on a separate thread.

 

2. "While it has the potential of nullifying the promotion system". You should be able to infer that I'm talking about stat and prestige points being given the players once they hit the Bank cap. Works just like the existing promotion system except you're not forced to promote.

 

3. Umm... why not, what? What don't you understand about increasing the character speed?

 

4. Medals would work the same. All the chart is at the end of the game is a presentation sheet of what you did. Individual xp bonuses are hashed out at the end of the game. I suggest you read this thread to understand how the divvy system works and arguments made about it.

 

5. Pointless rant not related to what I laid out. This isn't a speedrunner vs looting thread. You play you get XP. You don't contribute then you don't. That means hitting something, support buffs, and team assists. You still get a commersate amount of XP using the existing system. You just don't get as much XP for idling or major under-performance (i.e. a rank noob on P/NM throwing spitballs). If I wrote a troll thread that said "Give the proportional percentage of gold to the persons who did the most vase loots and split event gold evenly", speedrunners wouldn't care and looters would be like "oh hell yeah". When I mention XP divvy based on performance and anti-mooching mechanics then I'm an elitist bastard. LOL Why change it? Because as I outlined, it encourages leeching and lazy gaming. It's a "team" game with one or more persons not putting in the same effort of play. That's not even carrying. That's babysitting.

6. I'm talking about a technical issue with spawning mooks en masse on larger maps. The mooks footspeed has already been increased faster than it was on the original release. You tried catching up with one of the foot soldiers that's going after one of your teammates? Your character runs too slow.

 

 

-You say you dislike powerlvling, then propose an exp bank that allows you to do just that. I play a tough game, really fast with my lvl 19 (or 35) and bam, tons on lvl ups.

 

-xp should be shared to avoid everyone playing xp hoarding characters

 

-They shouldn't handout exp for rage quits and incompletes, they should improve game stability

 

-Making it harder to promote now would create a morally unjustifiable gap between who is already heavily promoted and everyone else

1. No that wouldn't occur. Hypothetical levels 21 to 30 would be scaled in the same manner as 1-20. The next higher levels become exponentially larger. This would be more effective with option B. Go with this example.
Players with less than 100 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-20.

Players between 101 and 200 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-25.

Players between 201 and 300 have a level requirement of 1-30.

so and so forth.

This table actually works in favor of noobs and increases the degree of difficulty on veteran players. The gap between the new players and established ones would actually narrow faster since they would have to remain on higher difficulties to get optimal experience. It also has the added benefit of slowing down their progression rate. The scale from 21-30 (or whatever hypothetical cap) isn't going to be small.

2. See above comment. You have to look at the big picture. With players being gated into an appropriate difficulty with similarly skilled players, they maximize team XP (in accordance to the current divvy system). The only players who are punished (severely) are the idled players. The current distribution works somewhat nicely to reward "support kits". I step down difficulties all the time and have noobies rank close to my "score". What isn't fair is some jack@$$ sitting back munching on Cheetos while me and a noob Keeper are working our butts off while another player sits back at the fountain claiming his character is stuck two games in a row (don't make me call out usernames).

3. I've been waiting on stability fixes since Nov. It's a P2P there's only so much you can do unless BW wants to let us set up international dedicated servers using our PCs for network sharing. I don't give darn if someone rage-quits as long as they were putting in work they should be rewarded for the bit they did. They get gold as a reward even if they quit. Noone seems to ever want to bring that up.

4. Already responded to this.

[MDK1281]

7. The global camera shake (especially for Firestorm) is incredibly annoying. I wholeheartedly agree with this one.

[Cheviot]

So, in your first suggestion you want to make levelling harder, yet in your second you want to make it easier? What's going on there?

[yarpenthemad21]

1. I never said that you should be given extra ability points beyond lvl 20. That was an entirely different idea I brought up on a separate thread.

So you want to pretty much punish everybody with low promotions and those starting and reward those on high enough stats?
PPl with 150+ in each stat won't care about this because they capped on stats and promoting even not matter for them.
This is stupid idea. Very stupid.
Plus you want to make leveling a useless way of grind XP and levels without even abilities?
 

2. "While it has the potential of nullifying the promotion system". You should be able to infer that I'm talking about stat and prestige points being given the players once they hit the Bank cap. Works just like the existing promotion system except you're not forced to promote.

Simple question.
Who cares about prestige? I don't. This value in right up corner gives me NOTHING. Promotions gives me stats boost, prestive gives me nothing. What is better?
 

3. Umm... why not, what? What don't you understand about increasing the character speed?

What you don't understand in "why not"? Why not is why not, I don't see any problem with boosting speed.


 

5. Pointless rant not related to what I laid out. This isn't a speedrunner vs looting thread. You play you get XP. You don't contribute then you don't. That means hitting something, support buffs, and team assists. You still get a commersate amount of XP using the existing system. You just don't get as much XP for idling or major under-performance (i.e. a rank noob on P/NM throwing spitballs). If I wrote a troll thread that said "Give the proportional percentage of gold to the persons who did the most vase loots and split event gold evenly", speedrunners wouldn't care and looters would be like "oh hell yeah". When I mention XP divvy based on performance and anti-mooching mechanics then I'm an elitist bastard. LOL Why change it? Because as I outlined, it encourages leeching and lazy gaming. It's a "team" game with one or more persons not putting in the same effort of play. That's not even carrying. That's babysitting.

Just NO. It's bad mechanic and it alienates players. Nodoby would use kits with low XP potential.

Plus basic thing. How you want to balance typical perilous gameplay. I run ahead with my avvar killing everything on the way and other pugs can't even hit anything. My typical scoreboard is like me 12k and 2nd place 2k xp. Tell me now, why they should be punished for me being OP in pve co-op game? They don't even slack there or go afk, they try to catch me up, do something.
This is elitist approach. "this noob do nothing and should get nothing".

NO just NO. Stop being elitist jerk which force everybody to "contribute" whatever it means. You don't even get the idea how xp works in current state and how different roles have problem with getting XP.
I would say that player playing assassin which just focus on killing annoying targets, like Despair Demon or mages and have at the end of the game very low score (few kills, most of the time in stealth, no support, just focus on this role) would be in your system considered as "not contributing" where on the other hand level 1 keeper with inquisition staff with barrier and CL spam would get tons of support and damage xp.
Why you want to punish skilled player which just do his job and reward some spamming one?

That's why current system is good. You can always kick slackers from public match if they do nothing. Ppl should decide who is contributing and who is not, not some formula or algorithm.

[Shadohz]

^^^ smh. Anyway.

 

 

So, in your first suggestion you want to make levelling harder, yet in your second you want to make it easier? What's going on there?

Updated the OT. The objective actually is to make it harder for top-tier players to get stats/prestige boost.

 

Even before the AC buffs Luke put in, it was possible to run a Lvl 1 kit on Perilous provide you weren't one of those players that used the AW approach to stat boosting (10/9999/50). I could run a level 1 on Perilous without being a major detriment @ around 60/60/60. From memory the kits I stepped down a difficulty for were AW, Katari, Assassin, and Alchemist.  You're talking a difference of a few thousand XP when it going from 1-8/9 in a single game vs the amount of XP lost from 19-20. You can get the similar relative XP boost by randomly dropping in at Zone 4/5 in a match (another broken mechanic). The Exp bank doesn't make it "easier" per se. It removes the necessity to downgrade or drop difficulty (at the player's choice). The curb is done via #1. Make sense?

[Medallian]

The newer difficulties while welcomed presents a new set a problems that might or should be addressed.

 

1. Raise the level limit to 25 or 30.

- Players are able to powerlevel too quickly. The gen pop has better stats now meaning they are playing higher difficulties more often.

- Alternately, you could require players with X amount of Prestige points to level from 1- 25/30, while player have reached that milestone to maintain the 1-20 requirement. This would effective slow down top-player progression rate thus allowing those lower on the totem pole to catch up (at least until they hit the milestone).

2. XP carryover into a experience bank.

- One of those most common complaints is losing XP at level 19 to 20 graduation. It's also one of the areas of the game where most of the cheating occurs.

- Another common complaint is promotion grinding.

- What can be done is to give a Prestige point once a player has reached maxed level (currently 20). Any experience gained after that automatically rolls into an experience bank. The experience bank caps at total of experience required to hit max level. If the player hits the experience bank cap then they are awarded a Prestige point and the bank amount is reset back to 0 (starting over). If the player promotes the character before hit the bank cap then they are awarded those XP points to the respective character level.

- While it has the potential of nullifying the promotion system, it at least gives players the optional path of earning Prestige points without the downgrade necessity.

 

3. Games on higher difficulties are longer #1, increase default character speed.

- self-explanatory.

 

4. Games on higher difficulties are longer #2, XP loss due to crashes, kicks and other unintentional game exits.

- I get it. You don't want to give XP till the end of the game to discourage cheaters. It doesn't change the fact that it's a flawed design when you take into account the number of crashed games as well (see cheating comments below).

- There is a lot more XP being lost due to crashes on higher difficulties. It's exacerbated even more given the amount of time put into one game.

- Give out the XP at the end of every zone. Reset the XP pool after it's been divvied. Used in conjunction with the Sprint Rollover plan from #2 and changes to combat cheating (below), there should be a good compromise there.

5. Curb cheating by not encouraging it.
- Shared XP (equal split) is one of the worst divvy systems to use to discourage cheating. It actually encourages cheating especially when there aren't enough safeguards in place. Give XP based mostly on output, not participation.

- Thou shalt not commit idle-try. A fan favorite is drop in on a game an mooch your XP or to have a couple friends carry a low-level while he/she kicks back to watch a movie, feed the dog, run to the store, or whatever one of billion reasons I've heard over mic. If they are producing then don't reward them any XP.

- Noob-gates. Speaking of uninvited guests, make it mandatory to play 50-100 games of the previous difficulty to unlock the next harder difficulty. There are too many players wrecking games in a selfish pursuit to fast-track their stats. Players should be able to be invited to higher difficulty lobbies, but should be prevented from dropping in or creating their own higher difficulty lobbies until they've completed their milestones.

- Host-kicking. Not a favorite feature I'm sure but I think host should be given unilateral power to kick in lobby, not group vote. Once the game has started then it requires group vote to kick.

 

6. Swap group spawning for individual spawning.

- Group spawning especially on FC causes lag and may in some cases cause DC. On the larger maps or universally, spawn new mooks as other mooks are killed off on an individual basis (yes like ME3).

 

7. Disable global camera shake for Walking Bomb and weapon "explodes on kill". Fix issues with Barrier that cause lag/freeze.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

Update: For those of you confused by the XP table from #1, here's how a scaling table would work using the Alternative option:
Hypothetical levels 21 to 30 would be scaled in the same manner as 1-20. The next higher levels become exponentially larger. This would be more effective with option B. Go with this example.
Players with less than 100 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-20.

Players between 101 and 200 accumulated promotion points have a level requirement of 1-25.

Players between 201 and 300 have a level requirement of 1-30.

so and so forth.

 

Yes, #2 includes your promotion points with the rollover (for the one person who didn't pick up on it the second time I explained it).

what ever advantages higher lvl players have we have earned .. through time and dedication ... all I hear is how new players cry about it takes to long its to hard, always looking for the fast promotion, or the fast way out, there is a progression curve in this game... and you will have to work through it like the rest of us..... why should us higher lvl players be punished or nerfed... so I put in 3000 hour in the game to be punished I think not !!!!

[ParthianShotX]

what ever advantages higher lvl players have we have earned .. through time and dedication ... 

well, admittedly, not all of you now . . . .we don't want to see noses grow.   Some of it through time and dedication but not all of it, not all of you.