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[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

But the humans deserved it! The past! The past!

Woooops....then DAI happened.

Lazy writing! Lazy writing! It can't be so!

[Dai Grepher]

I think she was being influenced. Perhaps not controlled exactly, but her behaviour was very odd in the first scene with Alexius, almost as if not quite in her own mind, drugged or something like that. That fits the picture much better than assuming it was simply the effect of the time magic.

 

I agree with that. But it might not have been blood magic. I could have been, or it could have been something else. It shouldn't be time magic though. That wouldn't make sense.

 

Something about the Herald telling her about meeting in Val Royeaux seemed familiar to her.

 

However, I don't think blood magic influenced her to side with Alexius. She did that on her own.

 

But I am sure that she was under blood magic during Haven. It's hard to tell from combat, but she seemed... blank, emotionless. She never said anything during battle. Based on her reaction in Redcliffe Castle, I'd say she would never participate in the attack of Haven willingly. She would have said the same thing, that Alexius could not involve her people in that. She would have insisted Alexius uphold the bargain of taking the southern mages to Tevinter, and then it would be revealed that this was never the plan at all.

[Boost32]

I agree with that. But it might not have been blood magic. I could have been, or it could have been something else. It shouldn't be time magic though. That wouldn't make sense.
 
Something about the Herald telling her about meeting in Val Royeaux seemed familiar to her.
 
However, I don't think blood magic influenced her to side with Alexius. She did that on her own.
 
But I am sure that she was under blood magic during Haven. It's hard to tell from combat, but she seemed... blank, emotionless. She never said anything during battle. Based on her reaction in Redcliffe Castle, I'd say she would never participate in the attack of Haven willingly. She would have said the same thing, that Alexius could not involve her people in that. She would have insisted Alexius uphold the bargain of taking the southern mages to Tevinter, and then it would be revealed that this was never the plan at all.

Dorian said to Iron Bull that the mages who didnt join the Venatori either fled or were killed, there is nothing about blood magic.

[MisterJB]

 

It's not inconceivable that Alexius would have convinced Fiona that since the Inquisition has allied with/integrated the Templars, they will be coming after them once the Breach has been closed and it's better for them to preemptively attack them with the help of the Venat...I mean, his Tevinter troops.

There are some wartable missions where a group of rebel mages murder people and try to make it seem the Inquisition has done because of the alliance with the Templars.

[Dai Grepher]

Dorian said to Iron Bull that the mages who didnt join the Venatori either fled or were killed, there is nothing about blood magic.

 

That he knows of. What happened among the top level Venatori is another matter entirely.

 

The Chore Table mission "Investigate Redcliffe Castle" shows that the servants will give confused and contradictory reports of what happened if you pick Josephine's suggestion. This implies blood magic. Choosing Leliana reveals that there were some Venatori still in the castle preforming some kind of ritual. I would think blood magic.

[Dai Grepher]

It's not inconceivable that Alexius would have convinced Fiona that since the Inquisition has allied with/integrated the Templars, they will be coming after them once the Breach has been closed and it's better for them to preemptively attack them with the help of the Venat...I mean, his Tevinter troops.

There are some wartable missions where a group of rebel mages murder people and try to make it seem the Inquisition has done because of the alliance with the Templars.

 

Sure it's conceivable, but it isn't likely. For as dumb as Fiona was, she knew that mages going to war with the Inquisition, which would then have templars, right after being evicted by the Ferelden monarch(s), would be suicide. It was exactly what she was trying to prevent from happening. Leaving for Tevinter was supposed to be what got them out of that situation. If Alexius tried to change that deal, Fiona would have protested, just as she does if you go to Redcliffe Castle.

 

Also, the mages would have fled while the Inquisition returned on the Lothering route from Theirinfall, thinking they might be headed to Redcliffe first instead of Haven. But after not following them and instead going to Haven, this should have dispelled any suspicion that the Inquisition would attack the mages. All they had to do was leave Ferelden at that point. But this was about the time Alexius was being ousted in favor of Calpernia.

 

I don't think the frame job has anything to do with this situation.
 

[Master Warder Z_]

Sure it's conceivable, but it isn't likely. 

 

That's the position of folks who believe in imaginary notes located in the hissing wastes.

[Andromelek]

Sure it's conceivable, but it isn't likely. For as dumb as Fiona was, she knew that mages going to war with the Inquisition, which would then have templars, right after being evicted by the Ferelden monarch(s), would be suicide. It was exactly what she was trying to prevent from happening. Leaving for Tevinter was supposed to be what got them out of that situation. If Alexius tried to change that deal, Fiona would have protested, just as she does if you go to Redcliffe Castle.
 
Also, the mages would have fled while the Inquisition returned on the Lothering route from Theirinfall, thinking they might be headed to Redcliffe first instead of Haven. But after not following them and instead going to Haven, this should have dispelled any suspicion that the Inquisition would attack the mages. All they had to do was leave Ferelden at that point. But this was about the time Alexius was being ousted in favor of Calpernia.
 
I don't think the frame job has anything to do with this situation.

At this point, would be pretty easy convince her, something like: "The Fereldans, the Inquisition and the Templars have agreed to blame you for the Divine's dead, now you fight for us or you'll have fire on both flanks."

And yes, Fiona wouldn't be agree, but at most she would say something challenging like: "F*ck Alexius"

[The Oracle]

That's the position of folks who believe in imaginary notes located in the hissing wastes.

 

Okay, this has been mentioned a few times but completely flew over my head. I think it must be something I missed out on during my playthroughs. What imaginary notes are these?

[MisterJB]

Sure it's conceivable, but it isn't likely. For as dumb as Fiona was, she knew that mages going to war with the Inquisition, which would then have templars, right after being evicted by the Ferelden monarch(s), would be suicide. It was exactly what she was trying to prevent from happening. Leaving for Tevinter was supposed to be what got them out of that situation. If Alexius tried to change that deal, Fiona would have protested, just as she does if you go to Redcliffe Castle.

 

Also, the mages would have fled while the Inquisition returned on the Lothering route from Theirinfall, thinking they might be headed to Redcliffe first instead of Haven. But after not following them and instead going to Haven, this should have dispelled any suspicion that the Inquisition would attack the mages. All they had to do was leave Ferelden at that point. But this was about the time Alexius was being ousted in favor of Calpernia.

 

I don't think the frame job has anything to do with this situation.
 

It largely dependa on how Alexius framed it. For instance:

"If the Inquisition manages to close the Breach, they will gain tremendous popular support and, by extension, the Templars. Their reach will grow and they will do whatever it takes to prevent us from reaching Tevinter or even from allowing you to live there. They are Templars, they hate you and will not rest until every mage is dead or in chains. They call him "The Herald of Andraste". How many years will it take for new anti-mage commandments to appear?

 

But if we pool our resources together now, before they grow any stronger, we might be able to eliminate this threat in its cradle. C'mon, don't tell me you are not looking foward to making them suffer as you have suffered?"

[Boost32]

That he knows of. What happened among the top level Venatori is another matter entirely.
 
The Chore Table mission "Investigate Redcliffe Castle" shows that the servants will give confused and contradictory reports of what happened if you pick Josephine's suggestion. This implies blood magic. Choosing Leliana reveals that there were some Venatori still in the castle preforming some kind of ritual. I would think blood magic.

That doesn't imply blood magic, there are no bodies or blood, there is no evidence of blood magic.

Okay, this has been mentioned a few times but completely flew over my head. I think it must be something I missed out on during my playthroughs. What imaginary notes are these?

Some Fiona's defender tried to tell us that in the Hissing Wastes there is a codex that tell the mages have been brainwashed, but no one seemed to remember where this codex is located

[SgtSteel91]

It may have been this codex entry which, if you side with the Mages, the Venatori talk about how they have to redeem themselves for their failure at Redcliff.

[Master Warder Z_]

It may have been this codex entry which, if you side with the Mages, the Venatori talk about how they have to redeem themselves for their failure at Redcliff.

 

It mentions nothing of mentally manipulating anyone.

[Boost32]

It may have been this codex entry which, if you side with the Mages, the Venatori talk about how they have to redeem themselves for their failure at Redcliff.

It wasnt that one.
That codex is about Alexius failure of going back on time and stopping the Herald.

[Andromelek]

I think there is no easter egg left to find at this time, having said that, the wiki would also made emphasis on Fiona being brainwashed, but it doesn't, it says she joined to the Venatori to kill the Herald, nothing about blood magic or any kind of magic, she is just stupid and most of her followers are scared or are dumb enough to follow her to the end.

[The Oracle]

I wonder what happened to all the child Mages that were in Redcliffe. You think the Venatori shipped them off to Tevinter or perhaps used them for blood magic. I mean, we see what they did with all the Tranquil. How the frig did that house just sit there in Redcliffe, filled with friggin skulls. WTH? Did no-one wonder what the big cart full of skulls was for when it came in? Or did they kill the Tranquil in that hut? People just saw them go in but never come back out and didn't think it was a bit odd? 

[Master Warder Z_]

Why was Gaspard the finest military mind in Orlais actually deadlocked with Celene militarily when he so handily outplayed her on the battlefield previously?

 

DAI is filled with odd lines of logic.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sure it's conceivable, but it isn't likely. For as dumb as Fiona was, she knew that mages going to war with the Inquisition, which would then have templars, right after being evicted by the Ferelden monarch(s), would be suicide. It was exactly what she was trying to prevent from happening. Leaving for Tevinter was supposed to be what got them out of that situation. If Alexius tried to change that deal, Fiona would have protested, just as she does if you go to Redcliffe Castle.

 

Appealing to Fiona's sense of strategic self-preservation, after she spent most of her political careeer lacking any, is rather ignorring precedent- especially since going along with Alexius's Recliffe Coup was the even bigger strategic suicide than attacking the Inquisition. The Inquisition, at least, is (at the time) a minor power with a reachable central foothold that can (and is) easily overrun. Attacking before a hypothetically hostile Inquistion/Templar alliance can gather its forces to attack the mages actually makes strategic sense.

 

Actually, it makes more strategic sense than any of Fiona's other strategic decisions across her career as Mage leader. Which is why it certainly wasn't her calling the shots.

 

 

 

 

Also, the mages would have fled while the Inquisition returned on the Lothering route from Theirinfall, thinking they might be headed to Redcliffe first instead of Haven. But after not following them and instead going to Haven, this should have dispelled any suspicion that the Inquisition would attack the mages.

 

 

Why would it dispell such a belief?

 

Haven's a much better site to gather forces for an attack on Redcliffe than Theirinfall. It's also a great place to shut the Breach, which is the Inquisition's stated goal. The Templars going to Haven doesn't imply they don't care about Redcliffe one way or the other- for paranoid mages, it could just as well be the Templars upholding their end of a bargain (sealing the Breach) in return for the Inquisition siding with them. Which would justify pre-emptively attacking Haven.

[Carmen_Willow]

I was disappointed with both Fiona and the mages in general. As rebellions go, theirs was pretty lame, and to run like scared sheep into the arms of Tevinter? Pulleeeeze, give me a break. Rebelling from slavery only to become slaves again - stupid! How did that make sense? Fiona was certainly no Moses leading her flock to the promised land. She led them right back into the trap they'd just escaped. So when Vivienne says that her dementia is showing? I have to agree.

 

Even as a mage, I court the Templars because the mages are just disorganized whiny crybabies who stand around and do nothing after pointing their staffs at the Breach to close it. They are a poor set of allies who do little or nothing for you while the Templars are out there building goodwill and taking down demons, one village at a time.

 

Plus the Templars put up a much harder fight in Haven, the mages are easy to beat in comparison. Finally, Samson's story arc just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. How does a washed-up Lyrium demented junkie end up commanding the army and doing it well. Everyone else seems to lose brain power as the red stuff eats them up - not Samson. Didn't make sense.

 

Finally, we have no closure with Alistair and his mother. Like Jon never learning who his mother was - what a let-down.

 

And yes, I guess I am ranting - I was very disappointed in the direction the writers took the mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I wonder what happened to all the child Mages that were in Redcliffe. You think the Venatori shipped them off to Tevinter or perhaps used them for blood magic. I mean, we see what they did with all the Tranquil. How the frig did that house just sit there in Redcliffe, filled with friggin skulls. WTH? Did no-one wonder what the big cart full of skulls was for when it came in? Or did they kill the Tranquil in that hut? People just saw them go in but never come back out and didn't think it was a bit odd?

Funny how nobody actually seems to talk about this

[Kakistos_]

It is quite clear that Fiona was brainwashed somehow as stated by developers, probably controlled with Blood Magic. when you go to see Alexius and he reveals his plan, Fiona refuses to be apart of it and later in the Dark Future you find her in a cell.

 

I agree with the OP. Fiona is a significant and impressive character in the world and though it was nice to see her animated, her role could have been larger and it is really unfortunate that she can potentially be killed off as a not so impressive boss crippling any potential roles she could play in future games as leader of the Free Mages, The Warden that escaped the taint and Alistair's mother.

 

On second thought perhaps she can still play a role in those story lines. Simply, if she lived she shows up and if not, not. Just like Kieran, Alistair, Logain and several other characters that survived Origins and made a cameo in DA2.

[Master Warder Z_]

Gaider said ask Weekes, Weekes never said anything about it.

Therefore Devs said literally jack **** in the issue.

[Dai Grepher]

At this point, would be pretty easy convince her, something like: "The Fereldans, the Inquisition and the Templars have agreed to blame you for the Divine's dead, now you fight for us or you'll have fire on both flanks."

And yes, Fiona wouldn't be agree, but at most she would say something challenging like: "F*ck Alexius"

 

I don't know, she didn't take that course of action in the bad future. They had to make a red lyrium boulder out of her, and that was just on the word of helping Tevinter reclaim its glory, not attack the Inquisition without provocation. According to the bad future, Alexius killed the Herald and then probably fled Redcliffe Castle. Alexius maintained control over the southern mages, but Fiona turned on him at some point, which is why she ends up a prisoner in the castle later on. The only difference I can think of is that the Herald does not go to Redcliffe Castle, in which case Fiona doesn't find out about the real plan until the mages leave Redcliffe.

 

Maybe it's a case of her having to leave with the surviving members of the Herald's party that leads to her becoming a red lyrium boulder. Whereas leaving with Alexius and then finding out the real plan with no one else around to help her leads to the attack on Haven. But even in the later case, she would need a reason to actually stick with Tevinter. At this point, Alexius is ousted by Calpernia because his trap failed to catch the Herald and he failed in his time magic. So why would she follow Calpernia? It was she who led the assault on Haven. Plus, Corypheus was present. Why would Fiona serve an ancient darkspawn magister?

 

It couldn't have been that she was worried about what would happen to her people, because that didn't stop her in the bad future, and even if it had in the true timeline, her people still would have been in danger by attacking Haven.

 

Lastly, the fact that there is no dialogue during the battle with her in Haven seems to indicate that she wasn't even aware of what she was doing. She was just a mindless weapon at that point.

[Dai Grepher]

It largely dependa on how Alexius framed it. For instance:

"If the Inquisition manages to close the Breach, they will gain tremendous popular support and, by extension, the Templars. Their reach will grow and they will do whatever it takes to prevent us from reaching Tevinter or even from allowing you to live there. They are Templars, they hate you and will not rest until every mage is dead or in chains. They call him "The Herald of Andraste". How many years will it take for new anti-mage commandments to appear?

 

But if we pool our resources together now, before they grow any stronger, we might be able to eliminate this threat in its cradle. C'mon, don't tell me you are not looking foward to making them suffer as you have suffered?"

 

That is only reason for them to leave for Tevinter immediately and get there quickly. It makes no sense to attack a powerful organization that has done you no wrong after it gains templar support. Fiona was afraid of the templars. Having a small Tevinter group backing her would have made no difference against the Inquisition and possibly the Ferelden army along with them. Remember that they had been banished from Ferelden for evicting Arl Teagan. Heading right back into Ferelden to attack a holy site that is heavily defended would do more harm than good. The alternative is to just go to Tevinter where they would be safe.

 

Might be able to eliminate this threat? I don't think Fiona would have gone along with that even if victory were certain, or even if she had wanted to. Her only concern at that point was getting her people to safety.

[Andromelek]

I don't know, she didn't take that course of action in the bad future. They had to make a red lyrium boulder out of her, and that was just on the word of helping Tevinter reclaim its glory, not attack the Inquisition without provocation. According to the bad future, Alexius killed the Herald and then probably fled Redcliffe Castle. Alexius maintained control over the southern mages, but Fiona turned on him at some point, which is why she ends up a prisoner in the castle later on. The only difference I can think of is that the Herald does not go to Redcliffe Castle, in which case Fiona doesn't find out about the real plan until the mages leave Redcliffe.
 
Maybe it's a case of her having to leave with the surviving members of the Herald's party that leads to her becoming a red lyrium boulder. Whereas leaving with Alexius and then finding out the real plan with no one else around to help her leads to the attack on Haven. But even in the later case, she would need a reason to actually stick with Tevinter. At this point, Alexius is ousted by Calpernia because his trap failed to catch the Herald and he failed in his time magic. So why would she follow Calpernia? It was she who led the assault on Haven. Plus, Corypheus was present. Why would Fiona serve an ancient darkspawn magister?
 

Firstly, on the Dark Future Fiona likely turned on Alexius because she saw him killing the Inquisitor after showing that he was not just another Tevinter but a cultist that also had something to do with the dude who killed the Divine.

Second, Corypheus being on the assault doesn't mean every world saw him, at most they saw the Dragon