397 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

Yes, because you're endangering your neighborhood in one scenario, and exploring someone else's in another.


That's the nature of exploration. We give up "home-field advantage" every time we leave Earth, and it certainly ain't cheap.

 thing is, other than the ocean floors, Earth is completely mapped. It wouldn't make much sense to leave Earth if you've never left the farm. Hence why leaving the galaxy is asinine regardless of the danger around the corner. While it may be a danger to the neighborhood, it's your  neighborhood. You have strategic advantage.

 

Whereas you go to a completely different galaxy and you're entirely at the mercy of everything (the environment and whatever enemies may be there). Whatever dangers we face there, they have the strategic advantage and we're up **** creek without a paddle. Alone. Strangers in a strange place. No reinforcements.

 

 

I'm aware of the power of the sense of exploration. You explore your neighborhood before leaving it. It's how it's always been done.

[Mcfly616]

THis particular example does have a few advantages, though:

 

1) It's a one-way transport.  Nothing can come back through the wormhole, so no risk of another rachni invasion

2) It can be done by a private group, so one could justify colonists willing to do something crazy because "insert reason here"

3) It's goofy space magic, but not entirely inconsistent with the goofy space magic that already exists in the game.

 All good points. But all illogical considering we're surrounded by unexplored space right here at home. It's the equivalent of the human race sending an ark ship to Alpha Centauri when we haven't even put boots on Mars.

 

 

#3 is the only rational explanation.

[Iakus]

 All good points. But all illogical considering we're surrounded by unexplored space right here at home. 

 

This is true.  And i'm not happy about relocating to Andromeda.  But we have no option, because "Our choices matter" (now)

 

But I do think that if there was a technologically feasible means of going to Andromeda, even as a one-way trip, there'd be people crazy enough to try it.  It's the "technologically feasible" part that got to me. Though yes the already existing galaxy and relay network would be a reason to stay complacent and not bother looking outside the galaxy.

 

I could even buy this singularity/wormhole as a mishap while trying to build a new relay.  An attempt to build a full-scale relay that frakked up and sent a bunch of ships to Andromeda before asploding?

[Kabooooom]

This is true. And i'm not happy about relocating to Andromeda. But we have no option, because "Our choices matter" (now)

But I do think that if there was a technologically feasible means of going to Andromeda, even as a one-way trip, there'd be people crazy enough to try it. It's the "technologically feasible" part that got to me. Though yes the already existing galaxy and relay network would be a reason to stay complacent and not bother looking outside the galaxy.

I could even buy this singularity/wormhole as a mishap while trying to build a new relay. An attempt to build a full-scale relay that frakked up and sent a bunch of ships to Andromeda before asploding?

My only problem with the "inadvertent wormhole transporting ships to Andromeda and/or the Land Before Time" idea is that the ships wouldn't be sufficiently equipped to survive, mine for eezo/Helium-3/other resources and start colonizing a brand new galaxy.

So, having foreknowledge of the destination makes more sense to me.

[Eryri]

Sure, but that involves opening doors for threats that could spread throughout the Milky Way, and that's in pursuit of stuff we already know about.

One problem with this is that the council races could be confident that any other undiscovered species in the Milky Way would be bound to be less advanced. Otherwise the Reapers would have harvested them. True they may be aggressive like the Rachni or the Yarg. But their technology, which is what would matter in a fight, would be no match for that of the Council.

We'd have no such certainty about Andromeda. The species there could be far more advanced than us without a history of the Reapers culling them every 50k years. Hence they could also be far more dangerous if they decide to swat us out of the sky. The balance of risk vs reward really doesn't favour going to another galaxy, at least not during peacetime.

[Arcian]

Reapers don't need to refuel.  Their power plants and Eezo drives appear to be able to run nigh indefinitely without the need to refuel or discharge.  The technology exists.

That is a load of crap. By virtue of existing in our universe, they are subject to the same laws of physics that govern us and our technology. That means they cannot be perpetual motion machines who run forever and ever without restocking on fuel, power, ammunition for their weapons and material to make repairs and make husks.
 

Who says it isn't unbelievably huge? It would have to be and most of that would have to be storage for supplies, fuel included. Then there's also the convenient omission that if you're going to adapt Reaper drives, why not adapt their cores as well? Finally I never said it had to be sustained flight. I assume 570 years is the calculated estimate to arrive and Andromeda? I don't recall having to keep any appointments for that time. I can easily see the Ark flying on a "burst" schedule to conserve fuel. If it adds a thousand years or so to the journey, who cares? We're distancing ourselves from the trilogy. Time is irrelevant.

Nowhere has it been stated they CAN adapt Reaper drives OR Reaper cores, which is completely beside the point because at Reaper speeds the journey will take 230 years, which is still way, way, WAY too long.

And "flying on a burst schedule"? Do I understand you correctly that what you actually mean with this is that they will stop now and then and generate more power over a few centuries, then continuing? If so, you do understand that this will only increase the power draw from the cryopods, completely negating any benefit to stopping in the first place?
 

And assuming they wake up from stasis to the cryopods can be turned off to they're not drawing any power, that means you need to bring along an additional 1000 years of consumables, either in the form of frozen food or water, or renewable sources like the ones in quarian liveships. Both forms drive up the size and the cost of the ship by astronomical amounts. You no longer have a spaceship at this point, but an FTL-powered space station.

 

If it adds a thousand years or so to the journey, who cares? We're distancing ourselves from the trilogy. Time is irrelevant.

 

The people who has to increase the ship's size to accomodate for another millenium of consumables would care. Time is definitely not irrelevant. If anything, time is THE most relevant factor. Time is what causes the resource requirements to balloon to impossible levels. The only way to reduce time is to increase efficiency, and that requires, ironically, centuries if not millennias of innovation.
 
Which brings me to the "Wait Equation" - there is no point in building an enormous, resource-hogging intergalactic ship many times more expensive than the Crucible that will take 500 years to reach Andromeda when 250 years later a ship only a fraction of the size and many times faster will be produced, catching up to and racing past the first ship.

 

And sending the ARKCON colossus during the Reaper War? That implies all the relevant tech was developed in a manner of months (unlike the Crucible, which was based on ancient blueprints millions of years old), that all parts were fabricated and then assembled in a manner of months. Simultaneously with the Reapers systematic destruction of the galaxy's infrastructure and economy. Concurrently with the construction of the Crucible, which was noted for being an astronomical drain of money, materials and personnel.

 

You. Cannot. Be. Serious.

 

Modern technology just makes do with discharging near whatever object will take it, because why not? What would the use for detachable storage batteries be in normal operation? It'd be a waste of material to design something like that when you can just skim a planet or asteroid or pay a nominal fee to discharge at a station. This is like claiming we couldn't invent better long-range FTL. We probably could, but with the relays, why bother? That's the whole point of the relay trap to begin with.

It's not a waste of material when you consider the time expense in consumables and the fact that a lot of star systems may be ineligible targets for drive discharge, for example star systems with planets that lack magnetic fields. The size of the planet also determines how long discharging takes, and the size of the ship determines how often it has to discharge. The ARKCON monstrosity would have to stop to discharge as often as a pregnant woman has to stop to go to the bathroom.

 

This is of course beside the point that discharging tech and better long-range FTL comes really handy when you're charting unknown space in search of relays to unlock, thereby enabling faster travel across the galaxy. You know, what Mass Effect: Andromeda could have been about if it was called Mass Effect: Milky Way instead.

 

Yes... and? That's the whole point, and seeing what they come up with to address this is far more interesting that "look a wormhole lololol"

While I agree that a wormhole would be a really boring and contrived solution to the problems, it's also the ONLY solution to the problem. What you are suggesting isn't possible with the Milky Way races current level of technology. It might be possible in the distant future when spaceships are more efficient (like 1250 times more efficient), but not right now and certainly not during the Reaper War, when all money and innovation that ISN'T being outright destroyed by the Reapers is being funneled into the war effort.

 

It actually sounds like a neat idea.

 

You're on a human ship with a full compliment of humans as your crew, and some members of other species as well but mostly human, and you're thrust into a completely new galaxy with no way of getting back home, so your crew is just out to survive amongst a new galactic community. The crew could be fairly large, sitting at around a few hundred which would make more sense than a crew the size the Normandy had going. That way, the human race would survive a little longer against not only the perils of new species (probably violent but I would expect some would also be friendly) and environments but also from dying out due to age (at least for a couple of generations hopefully).

*buzzer sound* What is a minimum viable population?

 

To prevent a genetic bottleneck and the deluge of health problems that would cause, every species needs to have a population of at least 500 individuals, split evenly across the genders, naturally. For the best chance of long-term genetic prosperity in Andromeda, each species would need ten times that number.

 

"It actually sounds like a neat idea." Yeah, until you do the research and realizes it's not.

[Iakus]

My only problem with the "inadvertent wormhole transporting ships to Andromeda and/or the Land Before Time" idea is that the ships wouldn't be sufficiently equipped to survive, mine for eezo/Helium-3/other resources and start colonizing a brand new galaxy.

So, having foreknowledge of the destination makes more sense to me.

Possibly.  Unless one or more colony ships got caught up in the wormhole.

 

Or maybe "the indomitable spirit of humanity" sees them through " 

[Kabooooom]

That is a load of crap. By virtue of existing in our universe, they are subject to the same laws of physics that govern us and our technology. That means they cannot be perpetual motion machines who run forever and ever without restocking on fuel, power, ammunition for their weapons and material to make repairs and make husks.

Nowhere has it been stated they CAN adapt Reaper drives OR Reaper cores, which is completely beside the point because at Reaper speeds the journey will take 230 years, which is still way, way, WAY too long.

And "flying on a burst schedule"? Do I understand you correctly that what you actually mean with this is that they will stop now and then and generate more power over a few centuries, then continuing? If so, you do understand that this will only increase the power draw from the cryopods, completely negating any benefit to stopping in the first place?

And assuming they wake up from stasis to the cryopods can be turned off to they're not drawing any power, that means you need to bring along an additional 1000 years of consumables, either in the form of frozen food or water, or renewable sources like the ones in quarian liveships. Both forms drive up the size and the cost of the ship by astronomical amounts. You no longer have a spaceship at this point, but an FTL-powered space station.


The people who has to increase the ship's size to accomodate for another millenium of consumables would care. Time is definitely not irrelevant. If anything, time is THE most relevant factor. Time is what causes the resource requirements to balloon to impossible levels. The only way to reduce time is to increase efficiency, and that requires, ironically, centuries if not millennias of innovation.

Which brings me to the "Wait Equation" - there is no point in building an enormous, resource-hogging intergalactic ship many times more expensive than the Crucible that will take 500 years to reach Andromeda when 250 years later a ship only a fraction of the size and many times faster will be produced, catching up to and racing past the first ship.

And sending the ARKCON colossus during the Reaper War? That implies all the relevant tech was developed in a manner of months (unlike the Crucible, which was based on ancient blueprints millions of years old), that all parts were fabricated and then assembled in a manner of months. Simultaneously with the Reapers systematic destruction of the galaxy's infrastructure and economy. Concurrently with the construction of the Crucible, which was noted for being an astronomical drain of money, materials and personnel.

You. Cannot. Be. Serious.

It's not a waste of material when you consider the time expense in consumables and the fact that a lot of star systems may be ineligible targets for drive discharge, for example star systems with planets that lack magnetic fields. The size of the planet also determines how long discharging takes, and the size of the ship determines how often it has to discharge. The ARKCON monstrosity would have to stop to discharge as often as a pregnant woman has to stop to go to the bathroom.

This is of course beside the point that discharging tech and better long-range FTL comes really handy when you're charting unknown space in search of relays to unlock, thereby enabling faster travel across the galaxy. You know, what Mass Effect: Andromeda could have been about if it was called Mass Effect: Milky Way instead.

While I agree that a wormhole would be a really boring and contrived solution to the problems, it's also the ONLY solution to the problem. What you are suggesting isn't possible with the Milky Way races current level of technology. It might be possible in the distant future when spaceships are more efficient (like 1250 times more efficient), but not right now and certainly not during the Reaper War, when all money and innovation that ISN'T being outright destroyed by the Reapers is being funneled into the war effort.

*buzzer sound* What is a minimum viable population?

To prevent a genetic bottleneck and the deluge of health problems that would cause, every species needs to have a population of at least 500 individuals, split evenly across the genders, naturally. For the best chance of long-term genetic prosperity in Andromeda, each species would need ten times that number.

"It actually sounds like a neat idea." Yeah, until you do the research and realizes it's not.

As a biologist I feel it is necessary to point out that the minimum viable population does depend both on species and (in this futuristic circumstance) the capabilities of genetic engineering, as there are hypothetical ways to avoid the reasons why that minimum number is necessary - but I completely agree with all of your other points. And I agree that the ballpark of a minimum viable population would, reasonably, be something around those numbers. Even more for a non-genophage cured Krogan population.

And all of your points are reasons why I think something like a wormhole IS necessary. The basic concept can be the same - send an ark or a fleet of ships through to ensure galactic survival. But the problems associated with the intergalactic voyage would be nonexistent.

[Kabooooom]

Possibly. Unless one or more colony ships got caught up in the wormhole.

Or maybe "the indomitable spirit of humanity" sees them through "

Lol. Yes, the Asari probably never had MacGuyver.

We humans can mine for eezo with a toothpick, rubber bands and some refrigerator magnets.

[MrFob]

Possibly.  Unless one or more colony ships got caught up in the wormhole.

 

Or maybe "the indomitable spirit of humanity" sees them through " 

 

If the Normandy manages to crash on a fertile vacation planet when unexpectedly being ripped out of FTL/Relay transfer, why can't we just luckily land on a paradise world when dropping out of a wormhole? If we are really lucky, one continent is levo, the other dextro, so we can even bring turians and quarians.

 

You may say it's impossible but in the end, it is just improbable.

[dreamgazer]

thing is, other than the ocean floors, Earth is completely mapped.

We've explored 5% of the area that makes up 70% of the Earth's surface.

We've technically explored less than .5% of the entirety of Earth.

And yet, we're taking out asses further and further into space.
 

It wouldn't make much sense to leave Earth if you've never left the farm.

We've "left the farm". That part of your analogy doesn't make sense.

We've hit points all throughout the galaxy, even if the overall percentage of sprawl is low.
 

While it may be a danger to the neighborhood, it's your  neighborhood. You have strategic advantage.

Not really. Technically, you're still entering "their" neighborhood if you encounter a threat on the other end of a relay.
 

Whereas you go to a completely different galaxy and you're entirely at the mercy of everything (the environment and whatever enemies may be there). Whatever dangers we face there, they have the strategic advantage and we're up **** creek without a paddle. Alone. Strangers in a strange place. No reinforcements.

So, just like space exploration today.

Also, what makes you think we're going to have reinforcements if the Council actually did decide to start allowing that kind of relay travel again?
 

I'm aware of the power of the sense of exploration. You explore your neighborhood before leaving it. It's how it's always been done.

Eh, no. We're still standing atop a massive trove of unknown material, and yet we're going to the stars and beyond.

[Iakus]

 

You may say it's impossible but in the end, it is just improbable.

I think at this point "improbable" is the best we can hope for.

[Iakus]

We've explored 5% of the area that makes up 70% of the Earth's surface.

We've technically explored less than .5% of the entirety of Earth.

And yet, we're taking out asses further and further into space.

Technically, we've only taken our asses as far as the moon.

 

Probes don't have a...

 

Okay that was about to go somewhere terrible...

[Paulomedi]

First interesting news about MEA I can recall.

 

Hope they use this idea.

[Kabooooom]

If the Normandy manages to crash on a fertile vacation planet when unexpectedly being ripped out of FTL/Relay transfer, why can't we just luckily land on a paradise world when dropping out of a wormhole? If we are really lucky, one continent is levo, the other dextro, so we can even bring turians and quarians.

You may say it's impossible but in the end, it is just improbable.

Gah, that just reminded me how stupid that whole scene was. Relay transfer is near instantaneous, so the Normandy was probably in FTL trying to outrun the blast. And if in FTL, where were they heading? If to that planet, why did they expect a safe haven there?

Obviously Walters wanted the LOLZEden approach to the ending with Joker and EDI banging out robot babies (somehow) and populating a fertile paradise with their impossible hellspawn.

Logic went out the window long before that scene.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not even a fan of going to Andromeda in the first place, but if they absolutely HAVE to go there, this is the only way that makes sense and would fit the established technological level of the galaxy.

Yeah. Using/falling into a wormhole is one of the only ways I would be able to tolerate, since wormholes are theoretically possible so don't break the lore. 

 

And even if they used a wormhole, the premise of why they would be using it would be to escape the Reapers...which is still ark theory.

Well, I'm hoping the whole "Run away from the Reapers(and the endings)" isn't the reason for the trip, so my hope does not involve Ark Theory. 

[Arcian]

We've explored 5% of the area that makes up 70% of the Earth's surface.

We've technically explored less than .5% of the entirety of Earth.

And yet, we're taking out asses further and further into space.

Yeah, because our bodies like high levels of pressure significantly less than micro-gravity. Space is also transparent, allowing unhindered vision for billions and billions of light years, while the ocean is dark, murky and has an effective visible range of about a hundred feet. In space, travel speed is measured in tens of kilometers a second. In the deep oceans, travel speeds are measured in single digit knots.

 

Space also contains a lot more interesting things, whereas the ocean floor consists mostly of hundreds of miles of featureless mud.

 

Should I go on?

[rapscallioness]

I liked that idea. Ack, too bad it's not legit. But who knows.

[Nethershadow]

 Really? All of our technology is based off Reaper tech (i.e. mass relays) So, yes, if the Ark leaves during or after the events of the trilogy, it will most certainly have Reaper tech integrated into it.

The point of the Ark to escape the galaxy threat was to leave before the outcome of extinction which is before the end of the trilogy, which is highly suggestive the Ark would have been designed and in production long before as I can't see building an Ark to be a quick process.

 

Sovereign, to a lesser extent the Collector base and possibly the derelict Reaper. Wouldn't be a fan of the first two as they would necessarily involve Cerberus. Again. Oh also the Reaper corpse previously known as the Leviathan of Dis. Batarians took that one.

 

But no real mention is even given on what happened to Sovereign's choice bits (phrasing). Turians got the gun, who got the drive or the core?

Even with any of those parts, the Reaper tech is so advanced in comparison that it's not like Earth is going to just say hey, lets reverse engineer this because we can? None of the races even understood anything about the technology of the gates, which strongly suggests they would know jack about dissecting Reaper tech. And even if they could, how many years do you think it would take them to reverse engineer such advanced tech? Then they still need the time to add it into the design of the Ark and adjust for that. 

 

Cerberus had to allow themselves to get indoctrinated among a host of atrocities to even learn from Reaper partners that were partially willing.

 

So no, the Ark would still not have Reaper tech if it was to leave anytime before the trilogy.

 

Colonization of another galaxy, period. The search for resources. Hell, running away from something else.
 

This is the same universe where one dude threw billions of credits at a program to resurrect a single soldier.

Going to another galaxy for the lulz seems rational in comparison.

Right, but in our own history, going anywhere to colonize was done to expand an empire, with the exception of those criminals in Australia. These places were always reachable.

 

Running from someone you said wasn't the only good reason to go to another galaxy, but if you have no way of traversing back and for there, it's a disposable plan where everything you throw into it is a write off. This isn't just some small project or insignificant amount of resources that they could use to further their own empire.

 

The reason I mentioned that as far as I know there is no empire or corporation that has done anything like this where they expended a huge amount of resources and sent it off to never be returned or expand anything.

 

Yep, and the reason they threw billions of credits to resurrect one soldier is because they thought he was absolutely necessary to future survival.

 

So the only reason I can see having any plausible reason at all is because the big bad is about to annihilate us and we need to attempt anything at any risk for survival.

[dreamgazer]

One problem with this is that the council races could be confident that any other undiscovered species in the Milky Way would be bound to be less advanced. Otherwise the Reapers would have harvested them. True they may be aggressive like the Rachni or the Yarg. But their technology, which is what would matter in a fight, would be no match for that of the Council.

Perhaps the Reapers harvested in Andromeda.

Or perhaps Andromeda has its own irregular cycles of extinction. Civilizations rise and fall, and sometimes it's their own fault.

We'll never know if we don't go out there.
 

We'd have no such certainty about Andromeda.

Ilos and Desponia both prove that methods of evasion are technically possible. There is no certainty, anywhere.
 

Yeah, because our bodies like high levels of pressure significantly less than micro-gravity. Space is also transparent, allowing unhindered vision for billions and billions of light years, while the ocean is dark, murky and has an effective visible range of about a hundred feet. In space, travel speed is measured in tens of kilometers a second. In the deep oceans, travel speeds are measured in single digit knots.
 
Space also contains a lot more interesting things, whereas the ocean floor consists mostly of hundreds of miles of featureless mud.
 
Should I go on?

If you want, but you're discounting the possibilities and significance of the ocean floor in relation to our "neighborhood", and you're not really disproving the percentage argument.

[rapscallioness]

Hmmm, maybe we created the black hole. Like they're doing up in Switzerland. It would be more manageable than a naturally occurring one. As far as black holes could be manageable.

 

But why? Because it would take awhile to create an Ark. And the idea implies that we somehow knew something wicked this way comes. We knew, and took it seriously enough to go to these lengths.

 

When did we find that first Prothean Beacon? 30 years ago? Perhaps, there was more info there than ppl were told. Maybe something about the oncoming Reapers.

 

Or the Asari were able to extract enough info from some of their hidden Prothean tech to know about the Reapers coming long before humans were even on the galactic scene.

 

You cannot discount private "interests" having knowledge about things that is not shared.

 

I mean, hell, for all we know some species could have found artifacts with warnings hundreds of years ago. And had reason to take it seriously. 

[Fade9wayz]

Hmmm, maybe we created the black hole. Like they're doing up in Switzerland. It would be more manageable than a naturally occurring one. As far as black holes could be manageable.

 

But why? Because it would take awhile to create an Ark. And the idea implies that we somehow knew something wicked this way comes. We knew, and took it seriously enough to go to these lengths.

 

When did we find that first Prothean Beacon? 30 years ago? Perhaps, there was more info there than ppl were told. Maybe something about the oncoming Reapers.

 

Or the Asari were able to extract enough info from some of their hidden Prothean tech to know about the Reapers coming long before humans were even on the galactic scene.

 

You cannot discount private "interests" having knowledge about things that is not shared.

 

I mean, hell, for all we know some species could have found artifacts with warnings hundreds of years ago. And had reason to take it seriously. 

We're not creating a black hole....  Cheese holes on the other hand...  

 

(/Scratches head) There were some very good points made in previous posts, but if we are going to suffer from time dilation, and be stuck in Andromeda anyway, I fail to see what advantages it brings compared to a relativistic near-light speed travel in cryopods, beyond ''Ooh lookit! Shiny wormhole!" . 

 

Either by wormhole or the long scenic route, the ship sent to Andromeda will be massive, just accounting the safe required population for each organic species and the colonization logistic. Just the task of selecting the "lucky" travelers is a major political and financial headache demanding the utmost secrecy. 

 

The tech for a relativistic travel seems available, and we'd be sure not to end up in the middle of some sun/pulsar/black-hole/whatever else that would crush and cook us beyond any Lazarus project silliness. Let's remember that an asari dreadnought can have a crew up to 10 000, and that includes fuel tanks, living quarters, food and water, etc. 

Building a ship of that size, or sightly bigger to accommodate a safe number of selected genetically diverse and fertile refugees, isn't so inconceivable, a retrofitting might be enough, for all we know so far. Hide the expenses for the Ark amidst the Crucible's, which is officially known as a massive drain of resources; build the Ark so that it has stealth and can transport everything the colonists will need, including food, water, fuel, vehicles, tools, grain, weapons...; conserve energy and resources with keeping the refugees in cryopods, only awakening a selected few from time to time for maintenance; and sling-shot the Ark around some black-hole towards Andromeda to get to near-light speed without using up fuel. 

 

I'll admit at least, that this eezo-created wormhole theory has the merit of not being pulled out of absolutely nowhere at the last moment. Viva Volus and goofy space magic!

 

About the proposition of some convenient wormhole appearing out of nowhere and conveniently sending the right amount of ships with a convenient genetic diversity for all species directly to Andromeda? How about we have Dr Who and Santa flying in to the rescue instead? It's shiny and goofy too.

[Kabooooom]

Well, I'm hoping the whole "Run away from the Reapers(and the endings)" isn't the reason for the trip, so my hope does not involve Ark Theory.

Maybe there was some possibility of this before the trailer, but I dont really see any other alternative now. In the trailer, on the destination screen in the lower right is a destination labeled "ARK" in big, easily readable letters.

What's the more likely scenario here? Coincidence? Or that Bioware chose the most obvious narrative of all possibilities?

You give them too much credit, dude. Their stories are excellent, especially with regards to the characters, lore, and little details - but the underlying plots are NOT that deep.

[Kabooooom]

We're not creating a black hole.... Cheese holes on the other hand...

He was probably referring to the possibility of creating micro black holes, which can occur when matter collides at extremely high energy levels, but quickly evaporate due to Hawking radiation. And thus far, no evidence of their existence has been found.

[Arcian]

Hmmm, maybe we created the black hole. Like they're doing up in Switzerland.