37 réponses à ce sujet

[o_sania]

Who has second hakkon dagger? 

[Courtnehh]

Only very lucky players have 2 hakkon daggers before the update that ensured you can't get a second hakkon dagger.

[TheThirdRace]

Which is BS since 2 good daggers is OP in Perilous while 2 Hakkon daggers is just OK on Nightmare...

 

There really was no need to limit Hakkon daggers at 1 weapon. I'm a bit tired of seeing how melee Rogues got the shaft big time in DAIMP. Not only are they the most difficult characters to play (position, timing, execution, etc), but they also are very gear dependent. Name me 1 character other than melee Rogues that needs 2 good weapons to be effective... You won't be able to, those melee Rogues have the deck stack against them on about every single aspect. And after that Bioware wonders why they're not played a lot...

[Piffle]

Which is BS since 2 good daggers is OP in Perilous while 2 Hakkon daggers is just OK on Nightmare...

 

There really was no need to limit Hakkon daggers at 1 weapon. I'm a bit tired of seeing how melee Rogues got the shaft big time in DAIMP. Not only are they the most difficult characters to play (position, timing, execution, etc), but they also are very gear dependent. Name me 1 character other than melee Rogues that needs 2 good weapons to be effective... You won't be able to, those melee Rogues have the deck stack against them on about every single aspect. And after that Bioware wonders why they're not played a lot...

 

OK, I know, totally unpopular opinion here but... the 2 Hakkon daggers setup isn't as OP as you guys think. The biggest advantage is the substantial amount of Stamina you get. 

 

If you are looking for raw damage, Nameless Blade (lvl 24) and Cordova's Smile can get you equivalent if not better results. Nameless even has built in armor pen which is vital for NM & above where you need the extra damage.

 

If you looking to wipe the floor in Peri, one Hakkon dagger is more than enough.

[Proto]

OK, I know, totally unpopular opinion here but... the 2 Hakkon daggers setup isn't as OP as you guys think. The biggest advantage is the substantial amount of Stamina you get. 

 

If you are looking for raw damage, Nameless Blade (lvl 24) and Cordova's Smile can get you equivalent if not better results. Nameless even has built in armor pen which is vital for NM & above where you need the extra damage.

 

If you looking to wipe the floor in Peri, one Hakkon dagger is more than enough.

 

Well we wouldn't know now would we...grumble, extra stamina and 100% crit damage seem pretty sweet to me. I would take it!

 

I actually don't have the Nameless Blade(24) or Cordova's Smile?

 

What is this Cordova's Smile you speak of?

[Beerfish]

I have the nameless blade, i must not have been using it properly because I was unimpressed by it.  I'll have to give it another go.

[Ricksmiley]

Stats on Cordova's Smile are:

114 non aoe damage

293 dps unruned

Rune slot

No grip slot

4% armor pen

2% to avoid killing blow

31% flanking damage

Berzerk 50% damage bonus, + 50% damage taken from all sources

[Proto]

Oh, nope. I'll take a second Hakkon dagger. Hand it over Piffe.

[LearnedHand]

Damn, I want a cordova's smile. That should blow away an offhand hakkon.

[Piffle]

Proto, you are going to eat your words

 

Got a friend to test Cordova's (we made sure to have the same willpower and everything) and he's impressed. Except high armor situations, his damage was better than mine consistently.

 

----------------

 

Edit: Here are some details for the testing so that people like Drasca don't draw the wrong conclusions.

 

We used the same build, passives, armour (and armour upgrades), accessories and we had the same amount of willpower. Even our main hand Hakkon daggers had the same base damage. The only difference was the offhand. We were testing on NM demons, most of which had little to no armour. My bolt averaged 2.xK, his averaged 3K (where x is a number I didn't bother to remember).

 

On the dragon (99 armour), our damage was more or less equivalent. This was because I had more AP due to dagger upgrades. My bolt averaged 2.1K.

 

I would love to test on my own but since Proto has no luck with chests, and I'm unluckier than Proto, I don't have  the Nameless (24) or Cordova's either 

[Proto]

Yeah, well I have to get one first. Grumble.

 

Dropped 200K yesterday, got a couple ability rings and that Kingfisher staff. WHERE IS THIS ELUSIVE DAGGER YOU SPEAK OF?

[Sulaco_7]

Damn, I want a cordova's smile. That should blow away an offhand hakkon.

 

How so?  Cordova gives you 50% damage increase and doesn't have a grip slot.  

 

Offhand Hakkon has 100% crit damage bonus plus grip slots.

 

I don't see the math working out in Cordova's favor.

[Kalas Magnus]

Proto, you are going to eat your words

 

Got a friend to test Cordova's (we made sure to have the same willpower and everything) and he's impressed. Except high armor situations, his damage was better than mine consistently.

lets get luke to remove the cap then.

 

(i still would have a hard time unlocking either)

[ParthianShotX]

BLuke, plz.

[Drasca]

Proto, you are going to eat your words

 

Got a friend to test Cordova's (we made sure to have the same willpower and everything) and he's impressed. Except high armor situations, his damage was better than mine consistently.

 

I'm pretty sure I know who's involved and how to make 2x Hakkon way better than both Cordova and Nameless Blade. I've done my own testing and I've found that Nameless does better in general than Cordova too. I suspect it is due to where the added damage is on the formula. Either way, I'd still prefer the 2nd Hakkon Dagger.

 

i.e. Put actual AP on the Dagger Grip (18% on each single blade dagger grip x 2) and grab AP passives. In the case of Izzy, grab a AP ring (20%) as well so you have a total of 56% AP naturally.

 

 

Yeah, well I have to get one first. Grumble.

 

Dropped 200K yesterday, got a couple ability rings and that Kingfisher staff. WHERE IS THIS ELUSIVE DAGGER YOU SPEAK OF?

 

Keep in mind Cordova's smile is level 18, so don't automatically salvage daggers if they're low level.

[LearnedHand]

How so?  Cordova gives you 50% damage increase and doesn't have a grip slot.  

 

Offhand Hakkon has 100% crit damage bonus plus grip slots.

 

I don't see the math working out in Cordova's favor.

 

Well, I don't have Cordova but if it behaves the way other "berserker" weapons behave then the +50% is more of an overall flat multiplication. My enthusiasm is based on earlier beserker weapons which performed comparably (for me) if not better than the highest damage weapons (pre-hakkon anyway). But berserker weapons also had lower base damage and of course the added damage that you take.

 

So, Cordova in offhand should mean:

1. Berserker damage buff but no drawbacks (lower base damage, increased damage taken)

2. You still get the mainhand Hakkon dagger as your base and its +100 crit damage.

 

Two hakkon daggers mean at least 240 crit damage which is at most a 71% crit damage boost (someone with no other crit damage sources). That seems flat out higher than +50% from the berserker weapons but the relative value of that second hakkon will decrease the more crit damage you have (most people will run with 20-70 more crit damage so at 200 total crit damage with one hakkon dagger, you are getting a 50% increase in your total crit damage by adding a second one. And that is its relative boost. In reality, its value for total damage will be less since there are many other factors that determine your damage as opposed to a berserker weapon which gives you a 50% multiplier on top of all existing multipliers.

 

In a nutshell, when you have several damage multipliers, overbuffing one multiplier (crit damage) will not always yield the best return. In the case of a Hakkon mainland and a berserker offhand, the extra 50% berserker multiplier will scale better the more existing crit damage you have. Perhaps someone can do more precise calculations for what that breakpoint is but I see this issue as similar to the armor penetration discussion. One take away from that discussion was that the more crit damage you have, the more value you get out of armor penetration.

 

Again, I don't have cordova's smile or double hakkon so this is all speculative from my point of view. Not having a slot on cordova's is a big factor that will skew things. But when Piffle says that offhand cordova's performs comparably if not better than double hakkon, that makes sense from what I know about other berserker weapons. You trade off an extra 100+ crit damage for an additional multiplier that will scale better.

[Proto]

Keep in mind Cordova's smile is level 18, so don't automatically salvage daggers if they're low level.

 

Been keeping my eyes out for it. Thanks for the heads up about it being level 18.

[Proto]

Snagged it last night. Upped the damage of Izzy substantially. Havn't tried it out on any of the other dagger rogues yet.

 

Curious, anyone who has it played around with it on any of the other characters?

[Texasmotiv]

Pray tell where does the berserk damage boost fit in the formula? is it just (result of formula) * 1.5?

[Proto]

Pray tell where does the berserk damage boost fit in the formula? is it just (result of formula) * 1.5?

 

Its a substantial increase. Not sure it's worth it TBH. The extra damage you take from Berserk is not cool. I still think I'd prefer a second Hakkon dagger. Maybe when my stats/strate-skill are Snakebite/Piffle good I'll change my mind. 

 

However, I have really enjoyed the Lunge & Slash ring combo'd with the Wintersbreath Shield on my Lego recently. 10K+ per

[Beerfish]

Anyone else have the 'Stone Stalker Blade' blue level 26 dagger other than me?

 

Stone Stalker Blade
Item Level 26
Rare Dagger ~151
(~390 DPS) +7% Armor Penetration
+17 Dexterity
Abilities cost 10% less mana/stamina Empty Rune

[Archaeologist]

Its a substantial increase. Not sure it's worth it TBH. The extra damage you take from Berserk is not cool. I still think I'd prefer a second Hakkon dagger. Maybe when my stats/strate-skill are Snakebite/Piffle good I'll change my mind. 

 

However, I have really enjoyed the Lunge & Slash ring combo'd with the Wintersbreath Shield on my Lego recently. 10K+ per

 

Can confirm: the Hakkon/Cordie combo is a substantial overall damage increase that truly shines on Izzy since she can negate the +50% damage taken modifier. I dont know for sure if skills alternate between MH and OH weapon damage for skill coefficients. If not then might as well have a stat-stick in your OH with effects/benefits. 

I think it'd be fun to see how crazy an Alchemist with 2x Hakkon and Imp. Christmas lights can get. I think it's the only rogue that directly benefits from having an insanely big stam pool. 

[Archaeologist]

OK, I know, totally unpopular opinion here but... the 2 Hakkon daggers setup isn't as OP as you guys think. The biggest advantage is the substantial amount of Stamina you get. 

 

If you are looking for raw damage SELL ALL YOUR CHILDREN FOR a Cordova's Smile can get you equivalent if not better results. Nameless even has built in armor pen which is vital for NM & above where you need the extra damage.

 

If you looking to wipe the floor in Peri, one Hakkon dagger is more than enough.

 

Filthy casuals and nerds will never understand the glorious burden you bear. I support you having a 3rd one in the neck slot as well just to make the nerds rage even harder. You are God-Tier. 

[Proto]

 

Anyone else have the 'Stone Stalker Balde' blue level 26 dagger other than me?

 

Stone Stalker Blade
Item Level 26
Rare Dagger ~151
(~390 DPS) +7% Armor Penetration
+17 Dexterity
Abilities cost 10% less mana/stamina Empty Rune

 

 

Yup. Now just need that cheap-a** dragon to give me the unique version.

[ParthianShotX]

And after that Bioware wonders why they're not played a lot...

 

 

my favorite class too . . . .