639 réponses à ce sujet

[Innarra]

I have repeatidly respond with I can not answer that question this is the last time I am going to reply to that question or anything that is similar to it.

 

 

 

Ok then.

[Wavebend]

I don't understand the white-knights. Approval of PR statements and giving a free pass to ethically questionable decisions because the "employees are cool ppl" is exactly why customers keep finding themselves in these situations. The act of WK'ing is borderline idiotic.

[Bryan Johnson]

I don't understand the white-knights. Approval of PR statements and giving a free pass to ethically questionable decisions because the "employees are cool ppl" is exactly why customers keep finding themselves in these situations. The act of WK'ing is borderline idiotic.

Okay I understand the frustration with people who are WK'ing, but what I think I dislike more is if people say something positive or agree with an official message then they get labeled as a WK and harassed and attempted censored. 

 

Not saying that is what happening here, but that type of harassment is (in my opinion) a form of attempted censorship.

[Spin-Orbit]

Wow

So they killed it...Oy Vey!
fuhgeddaboutit!

[Bryan Johnson]

This makes me so mad. Not only has it become standard business practice to give PC players terribly optimized console ports, but they even deliberately downgrade the games in the name of parity. Ubisoft did it with Watch Dogs, CD Projekt RED did it with Witcher 3 and apparently Bioware did it with DA:I.
 
The hair models in this game are atrocious. Is there any way to use the hidden hairstyle models?
 

 
Please tell me this is not true.
 

Here is the fun thing about both of these things they are conclusions based on zero evidence. Outside of fuzzy statements I have not seen "proof" of either of these things.

 

Now, I do not know what the assets were but I am going to go on a little story to have a possible explanation for such things. On Dragon Age we have things we call DA weeks where the intention of these projects is to allow people to do their own pursuits without full guidance, sometimes these will make it into the game sometimes these will not. I know of one such occurrence where one of our QA was interested in learning Maya and in order to do so decided to make some rather beautiful looking hair, now I am uncertain if she presented these things to leadership as potentially getting in the game, but she had made them as a learning project. Now it is not too difficult to get things that are not intended to get into the final game to actually make it be "put in the game but never used". I am sure if I looked close enough I could find some of my test assets that made it onto disk. Now I can't say for certain that this is what caused what you have quoted but I think that is a reasonable reason.

As for ME:A being on last gen, provide me one shread of evidence outside of people claiming they heard it would be on last gen and I'll shut up, but I am putting 100% burden of proof on the "community" for this one.

[Pork]

This makes me so mad. Not only has it become standard business practice to give PC players terribly optimized console ports, but they even deliberately downgrade the games in the name of parity. Ubisoft did it with Watch Dogs, CD Projekt RED did it with Witcher 3 and apparently Bioware did it with DA:I.

 

 

CDPR did it with the witcher because they overhauled the entire game engine since the game wouldnt run outside of a small prerendered environment. So... you could have that engine at the cost of the entire game running like a powerpoint presentation, but i doubt anyone else would enjoy that. 

[Geth Supremacy]

Here is the fun thing about both of these things they are conclusions based on zero evidence. Outside of fuzzy statements I have not seen "proof" of either of these things.

 

Now, I do not know what the assets were but I am going to go on a little story to have a possible explanation for such things. On Dragon Age we have things we call DA weeks where the intention of these projects is to allow people to do their own pursuits without full guidance, sometimes these will make it into the game sometimes these will not. I know of one such occurrence where one of our QA was interested in learning Maya and in order to do so decided to make some rather beautiful looking hair, now I am uncertain if she presented these things to leadership as potentially getting in the game, but she had made them as a learning project. Now it is not too difficult to get things that are not intended to get into the final game to actually make it be "put in the game but never used". I am sure if I looked close enough I could find some of my test assets that made it onto disk. Now I can't say for certain that this is what caused what you have quoted but I think that is a reasonable reason.

As for ME:A being on last gen, provide me one shread of evidence outside of people claiming they heard it would be on last gen and I'll shut up, but I am putting 100% burden of proof on the "community" for this one.

 

I see PC gamers say this about everything they can.  Now that PS3 and 360 support is dropped they are just in the transition of finding the new "reason" and cry about that.  Now it will just be the quality of the games that the devs put out, or it will be the way the port is done or the way the game is developed.  A year or so from now it will be the fault of the PS4 and XB1 because they exist.  It's always something and at best its based on this person found this and that person said this.  What ever the reason is rest assured there will be one soon to take the place of the PS3 and 360 and we will get to hear about that endlessly until that demon is no longer available to blame and rinse and repeat.

 

If you talked to them about the time DAI came out the PS3 and 360 walked into Bioware with chains and guns and forced Bioware to make their games for the systems.

[Yumi]

If trying to see a conversation from both sides is White Knight'ing, then I'm fine if people choose to apply that label to me.

 

Last gen death cycle was bound to start some time. This won't be the only game it happens to. The shuffle from the old shiny to the new shiny always has bumps along the way.

 

Hell, I'm super effin' bitter that I can't play a single Dead Space or BioShock title on my PS4. That's a slap in the face. Sure glad I didn't preorder Arkham Knight on PC.

Also glad that I didn't buy Destiny's premium Pay-to-Play-a-Beta-Test edition.

 

Stuff happens everyday, I don't try to blow it out of proportion or advance conjectural conspiracy theories about the Digi-lluminati and their AlmightyDollar™. (edit - or perhaps I have, I'm a human being too and fall prey to the heat of emotions like any other)

 

Our situation here at hand in a nutshell: a hard choice had to be made. Reasoning for the choice cannot simply be chalked up to money. Perhaps an error was made in not providing an in-game splash page for last gen users (if that was even possible). Last gen people have a right to be upset that they got 8 months of support when promised a full 12. But people who complain about how the decision was revealed to the public should try and think of similar situations and what happened in those ones. Has this happened before exactly as it is now? Was there a path blazed already to follow? 

 

Human beings make mistakes. Getting angry about it is ok. It appears to me that the people beating this issue on the negative side believe making some sort of pseudo-martyr stand on this issue is going to facilitate some future better behavior. Ironically, I believe it is likely the opposite is true. I'm not telling people to just "suck it up" either. 

 

Be the change you want to effect. Organize a coherent feedback campaign. Example: the evil corporations hide behind the shield of the wonderful individual employees that come here to interact with us and try to mollify us. Well, instead of killing the messenger, provide him/her will a mountain of coherent responses to filter back up the corporate hierarchy. Give people tools to attempt corporate change if that is what you want. Want to martyr yourself for the "cause"? How about this: after making a mountain of constructive feedback, take a shot at trusting a software company most of us have loved since the early 90s.

 

Next time around - maybe things change. Maybe not. But instead of beating a dead horse on a forum, stop buying future products. Ask your friends to support you and not buy their products. I don't buy Warner Brother games, even ones I would really like to play.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR trying to see both sides of the argument, trying to be constructive and provide constructive feedback, attempting to trust someone might do better in the future, trying to approach big mistakes/problems from a place of positivity, and learning to accept the world on the world's terms. If that makes me a White Knight, I'm good with that. Find me a white knight supernatural gif and we will be off to the races

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: also, where did that 12 months as a fact come from? was it on the box or was it stated verbally at a conference some where? I don't see any sort of promise on my physical Dragon Age disc box.

 

edit 2

 

I'm gonna hop on my Pollyanna soapbox here real quick. The decision has been made; it is not being unmade. We can rail against the injustice of it all. We can get angry and stay angry. Nothing is going to un-suck this situation. The most precious commodity in my life is time. I only get one life, and when I'm dead, it is over. How do I want to spend my time? How do you?

[Wavebend]

Here is the fun thing about both of these things they are conclusions based on zero evidence. Outside of fuzzy statements I have not seen "proof" of either of these things.

 

Now, I do not know what the assets were but I am going to go on a little story to have a possible explanation for such things. On Dragon Age we have things we call DA weeks where the intention of these projects is to allow people to do their own pursuits without full guidance, sometimes these will make it into the game sometimes these will not. I know of one such occurrence where one of our QA was interested in learning Maya and in order to do so decided to make some rather beautiful looking hair, now I am uncertain if she presented these things to leadership as potentially getting in the game, but she had made them as a learning project. Now it is not too difficult to get things that are not intended to get into the final game to actually make it be "put in the game but never used". I am sure if I looked close enough I could find some of my test assets that made it onto disk. Now I can't say for certain that this is what caused what you have quoted but I think that is a reasonable reason.

As for ME:A being on last gen, provide me one shread of evidence outside of people claiming they heard it would be on last gen and I'll shut up, but I am putting 100% burden of proof on the "community" for this one.

 

I'll accept this explanation because ingame hair models have stayed the same since the early demos (E3/EGX)

[Cirvante]

Here is the fun thing about both of these things they are conclusions based on zero evidence. Outside of fuzzy statements I have not seen "proof" of either of these things.

 

Now, I do not know what the assets were but I am going to go on a little story to have a possible explanation for such things. On Dragon Age we have things we call DA weeks where the intention of these projects is to allow people to do their own pursuits without full guidance, sometimes these will make it into the game sometimes these will not. I know of one such occurrence where one of our QA was interested in learning Maya and in order to do so decided to make some rather beautiful looking hair, now I am uncertain if she presented these things to leadership as potentially getting in the game, but she had made them as a learning project. Now it is not too difficult to get things that are not intended to get into the final game to actually make it be "put in the game but never used". I am sure if I looked close enough I could find some of my test assets that made it onto disk. Now I can't say for certain that this is what caused what you have quoted but I think that is a reasonable reason.

As for ME:A being on last gen, provide me one shread of evidence outside of people claiming they heard it would be on last gen and I'll shut up, but I am putting 100% burden of proof on the "community" for this one.

 

There is proof for Watch Dogs (players found a way to "unlock" the better graphics that were shown during the E3 presentation). The CDPR devs denied any kind of downgrade until after the game launched and then admitted that they didn't have the budget to develop two separate versions of the game and therefore had to optimize for the weakest hardware (consoles). I'm not sure about the hair textures in DA:I since I just read about them, but the tactical combat was terrible and made for consoles (just compare it to the PC version of DAO). The whole game (both SP and MP) plays like a console port.

 

I don't think I need to remind you of ME3's one button to rule them all either.

 

I see PC gamers say this about everything they can.  Now that PS3 and 360 support is dropped they are just in the transition of finding the new "reason" and cry about that.  Now it will just be the quality of the games that the devs put out, or it will be the way the port is done or the way the game is developed.  A year or so from now it will be the fault of the PS4 and XB1 because they exist.  It's always something and at best its based on this person found this and that person said this.  What ever the reason is rest assured there will be one soon to take the place of the PS3 and 360 and we will get to hear about that endlessly until that demon is no longer available to blame and rinse and repeat.

 

If you talked to them about the time DAI came out the PS3 and 360 walked into Bioware with chains and guns and forced Bioware to make their games for the systems.

 

Consoles will always be a limiting factor when it comes to game development. A 400-500$ console simply can't keep up with a 1200$ PC. So the games are optimized for the consoles and then ported to PC, just look at the system requirements of the Witcher 3 PC version. That's hardly optimized.

 

Or I remember TotalBiscuit saying in his Assassin's Creed Unity review that he couldn't play the game on it's highest settings with his double Titans. Mind you, that game was a total trainwreck at launch, but it's definitely a trend. Developers who want to make games for both consoles and PC nowadays can't optimize their games for PC, since the consoles wouldn't be able to handle it (and yes, I'm talking Xbone and PS4 here).

[Bryan Johnson]

There is proof for Watch Dogs (players found a way to "unlock" the better graphics that were shown during the E3 presentation). The CDPR devs denied any kind of downgrade until after the game launched and then admitted that they didn't have the budget to develop two separate versions of the game and therefore had to optimize for the weakest hardware (consoles). I'm not sure about the hair textures in DA:I since I just read about them, but the tactical combat was terrible and made for consoles (just compare it to the PC version of DAO). The whole game (both SP and MP) plays like a console port.

 

I don't think I need to remind you of ME3's one button to rule them all either.

 

 

Consoles will always be a limiting factor when it comes to game development. A 400-500$ console simply can't keep up with a 1200$ PC. So the games are optimized for the consoles and then ported to PC, just look at the system requirements of the Witcher 3 PC version. That's hardly optimized.

 

Or I remember TotalBiscuit saying in his Assassin's Creed Unity review that he couldn't play the game on it's highest settings with his double Titans. Mind you, that game was a total trainwreck at launch, but it's definitely a trend. Developers who want to make games for both consoles and PC nowadays can't optimize their games for PC, since the consoles wouldn't be able to handle it (and yes, I'm talking Xbone and PS4 here).

While you do have points, and this is something the industry as a whole needs to consider. I was merely commenting on your comments about our game not for Witcher/Watch Dogs/Assassins Creed.

[Bryan Johnson]

I'll accept this explanation because ingame hair models have stayed the same since the early demos (E3/EGX)

Thank you

[Pork]

PS: also, where did that 12 months as a fact come from? was it on the box or was it stated verbally at a conference some where? I don't see any sort of promise on my physical Dragon Age disc box.

 

http://www.destructo...3--279147.phtml

 

ME3MP was supported for 12 months (more or less). Its become very obvious that we will see the same, or less content, just spread over more time. So by technicality, bioware wasn't lying (they really really love these technicalities).

[Cirvante]

While you do have points, and this is something the industry as a whole needs to consider. I was merely commenting on your comments about our game not for Witcher/Watch Dogs/Assassins Creed.

 

Fair enough. I still maintain my point that the game plays like a console port. The fact that many of the devs supposedly played with a controller on PC speaks volumes.

[Yumi]

http://www.destructo...3--279147.phtml

 

ME3MP was supported for 12 months (more or less). Its become very obvious that we will see the same, or less content, just spread over more time. So by technicality, bioware wasn't lying (they really really love these technicalities).

 

i can accept that, but it's not really 100% concrete proof. Something more like 75%. But I find Destructoid reputable.

 

It is a very vague promise. However, the vagueness itself supports the technicalities point, and I can accept that as well. Probably a lesson to learn in the future: don't overpromise, especially vaguely overpromise.

[Bryan Johnson]

Fair enough. I still maintain my point that the game plays like a console port. The fact that many of the devs supposedly played with a controller on PC speaks volumes.

To be fair thats because it is natively supported in the engine.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Next time, could you at least buy us dinner first before you bend us over and **** us?

 

Aw, who am I kidding. The fact that Bioware - a company I've supported with my money since Baldur's Gate 1 - doesn't give two tugs of a dead dog's **** about me as a consumer makes me start to reconsider whether or not there will be a next time for me.

 

I know, I know. "Lol their shor gunna miss yur 50 bucks lololololololololololool." But it's not about that. It's about taking a step back and deciding if I want to be treated as a second class citizen by a company or not. 

 

At least I'm doing Bioware better than they did us. I'm at least warning them that my support may not continue in the future.

[scene_cachet]

Fair enough. I still maintain my point that the game plays like a console port. The fact that many of the devs supposedly played with a controller on PC speaks volumes.

 

Yet these AAA games would look like PS2 games on PC, stuck in early access if it wasn't for the console dollar. 

 

Can't have it both way I'm afraid. 

[Darth Krytie]

Some of these posts are so melodramatic, it's absurd.

 

Perhaps, and maybe it's not a possibility, but perhaps if you who are on last gen consoles could make a bullet list of the bugs that you still are encountering that are game breaking and ask if it's at all possible to at least get a patch for that? I mean, it might still be a no. But it is an actual request that actual devs can bring up in actual meetings.

[J. Peterman]

Some of these posts are so melodramatic, it's absurd.

 

Perhaps, and maybe it's not a possibility, but perhaps if you who are on last gen consoles could make a bullet list of the bugs that you still are encountering that are game breaking and ask if it's at all possible to at least get a patch for that? I mean, it might still be a no. But it is an actual request that actual devs can bring up in actual meetings.

 

There's nothing melodramatic about getting scammed.

[GreatBlueHeron]

I've read through the entire thread (and I slept on it, too), and while it's nice having answers, what it boils down to is that you, Bioware and EA, could do us all a solid by absorbing the costs of a discount or free upgrade and you refuse to do so. You could also continue patches for game breaking bugs and you refuse to do so. You aren't victims and you aren't "evil" either, but you reeeaalllly don't grok how upset people are. This is my one chance to be heard as a customer (I tried to get an email address from EA earlier this month to complain --- but it wanted to force me to use their forum that EA can't even be bothered to respond to), so here goes: I came across your games three years ago when I took a chance on Mass Effect 2 and I fell in love. I had to have more, so I've bought a total of 6 Bioware games new---they weren't all purchased at full retail because they were years old, but the ones that were purchased at full retail were Mass Effect (ps3), Mass Effect 3 Collectors Edition and Dragon Age Inquisition. I spent around 200.00 on Mass Effect multiplayer alone, not to mention all of the dlc i've purchased. I became a big fan in a short amount of time. I've respected your attempts to make more inclusive gaming---that's huge and so important, which is why it hurts so much for me to say I'm done doing business with you. The one marginalized group you overlooked through this entire ordeal is poor people. There's a reason why many of us have not upgraded yet--we are choosy with our money and spend it well. At the time I made a good choice to buy Inquisition. If I would have known there was a good possibility that support would be dropped for the old consoles, I would not have spent 60.00. I would have waited to purchase it later this year. I would have bought dlc. I would have spent more money than I already have on multiplayer. I don't have much money, but I reward companies that produce products I like by throwing what money I can at them. These decisions are not made at the drop of a hat--you likely knew that support would be ended early or at least it was a possibility for the old gen, but you wanted to recoup some of the money you wasted developing the game for the old consoles and decided to launch anyways. Your mistake cost me 60.00 and cost you from receiving any more money from me. I never understood companies who look at the short term to the expense of the long term. I was ready to get Mass Effect Andromeda new, maybe even the collector's edition, buy all dlc and drop some cash on multiplayer because I believe in supporting with money, but that's not happening. I will get the game used. No dlc. No money for multiplayer.

Thus ends my business relationship with you.

[shackleshotgun]

Neither Sony or Microsoft make much money on their hardware.  If I remember correctly, I think Microsoft made about $30 and Sony about $20 per console when they released.  That margin is likely a little better now, but console sales haven't ever been a large income source for the companies that make them.

 

Actually, (Sony, at least) only made about $18 per console in the beginning. My guess would be that their biggest profits come from PS+.

 

If you didn't drop the PS3/X360 due to money cost, then why else would you drop support for the game less than a year after it's release? That makes no sense. Of course it was money. C'mon.

 

Bryan has made it abundantly clear in several posts that money was a factor, yes, but the older consoles were EXTREMELY limited. It is a nightmare to optimize games for PS3/360 right now, as the primary focus are the newer gens. As someone in this thread mentioned, they probably realized this in the middle of developing Jaws of Hakkon. They couldn't give half the DLC to the PS3/360 and the full DLC where they went all out with what they wanted to do to PC/PS4/XBONE, because they would face a drama of epic proportions with fans who have no idea how technology works. They had to find a middle ground. And this "no child left behind" thing sucks as it limits game devs to no end. If CDPR would have released Witcher 3 on older consoles, the game that came out would have been significantly worse.

 

And if BioWare is working on a bigass DLC right now, it only makes sense, as dropping 360/PS3 DLC support means that their limitation has been lifted by a LOT.

 

As as for your dead horse, I dunno. Send this thread to various gaming journalism sites and it will be everywhere eventually.

 

Here's a fun fact: Someone did some datamining a while ago and found beautiful 3D hairstyle models in the DA:I assets. I think Bioware simply didn't use them in the name of parity so X360/PS3 users wouldn't feel bad about their flatheads

 

I need links, screenshots and proof to this claim. I can't find anything on google. There WAS an image spread around by BioWare though prior to the game's release where the characters had hair that was scrapped.

 

 

With some hairstyles in that picture, it's understandable why they were scrapped, like for example clipping and animations. My GUESS would be that they simply didn't have time to animate it due to resources spent elsewhere. Frostbite CAN support it, so "limited engine" isn't an excuse. But an official can clear this up because I know as much about gamedev as drag queens know about boobs. I'm not really sure whether that's a render or artwork either.

 

Though, if your claim is true, it makes sense: no child left behind, adjust the teaching technique and use the dumbest student as the bar. I do hope these mythical hairstyles are eventually released.

[ParthianShotX]

Neither Sony or Microsoft make much money on their hardware.  If I remember correctly, I think Microsoft made about $30 and Sony about $20 per console when they released.  That margin is likely a little better now, but console sales haven't ever been a large income source for the companies that make them.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of aftermarket revenue, friends.  

[Domiel Angelus]

There's nothing melodramatic about getting scammed.

 

 

You paid $60 for Dragon Age: Inquisition, you didn't pay for Dragon Age:Inquisition + the dlc. I understand where you're coming from when it comes to patching details but buying the original game doesn't guarantee access to DLC. 

 

The biggest problem I'm having with this entire thing is that if they attempt to make it up to the old gen by giving it for free or at a discounted price, they would also have to do something for the people that forked over the cash for the main game on the newer systems as well. I got an inferior product on my next gen console because they kept the old gen in the loop. 

 

If anything its the new gen that got scammed because even if the disc says PS4 or Xbox One, but I've played them side by side and there's not enough difference to tell 360 from One (I bought two versions because I had friends that couldn't upgrade). We're playing the same game and the only real difference is next gen systems aren't as buggy because the game was designed with next gen in mind.  I've been thankful that I've avoided most of the worst bugs by keeping my single player experience mainly on the One, but I did play up to getting the Templars on the 360 and the only bugs I had gotten were having a 'bandit' archer fall through the world and land on my head once, and having Solas fly off the map once for some strange reason.

 

Old gen is getting boned now, new gen got boned when the game came out.

[J. Peterman]

You paid $60 for Dragon Age: Inquisition, you didn't pay for Dragon Age:Inquisition + the dlc. I understand where you're coming from when it comes to patching details but buying the original game doesn't guarantee access to DLC. 

 

The biggest problem I'm having with this entire thing is that if they attempt to make it up to the old gen by giving it for free or at a discounted price, they would also have to do something for the people that forked over the cash for the main game on the newer systems as well. I got an inferior product on my next gen console because they kept the old gen in the loop. 

 

If anything its the new gen that got scammed because even if the disc says PS4 or Xbox One, but I've played them side by side and there's not enough difference to tell 360 from One (I bought two versions because I had friends that couldn't upgrade). We're playing the same game and the only real difference is next gen systems aren't as buggy because the game was designed with next gen in mind.  I've been thankful that I've avoided most of the worst bugs by keeping my single player experience mainly on the One, but I did play up to getting the Templars on the 360 and the only bugs I had gotten were having a 'bandit' archer fall through the world and land on my head once, and having Solas fly off the map once for some strange reason.

 

Old gen is getting boned now, new gen got boned when the game came out.

 

Yeah, you're not going to tell me what I paid for. You may have paid for the game itself, but I wouldn't if all the cards were laid on the table. I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in this. This thread wouldn't be so many pages long otherwise.