639 réponses à ce sujet

[TheThirdRace]

Nothing in that list is really tool or engine related, it's all just design decisions.

It was more to illustrate Bioware made a bunch of bad calls all over the place. Since they did such a good job at being equal everywhere, it's safe to assume they made the same kind of choices for the size of their content.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure something could be done about the size limit. I mean, if they have a limit of 4GB for example, they could use reduced quality textures and/or sounds to keep the total below that 4GB limit. They dont "have" to keep the same level of graphic quality, they just don't want to lower it. I know for some it would be an unacceptable solution, but in theory there is a solution. Either you give up on some quality or you give up on future content, your choice...

[Kalas Magnus]

i just want the characters.

 

everything else can be cut out.

 

id be ok with the reduced quality though.

[MileEnd]

It was more to illustrate Bioware made a bunch of bad calls all over the place. Since they did such a good job at being equal everywhere, it's safe to assume they made the same kind of choices for the size of their content.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure something could be done about the size limit. I mean, if they have a limit of 4GB for example, they could use reduced quality textures and/or sounds to keep the total below that 4GB limit. They dont "have" to keep the same level of graphic quality, they just don't want to lower it. I know for some it would be an unacceptable solution, but in theory there is a solution. Either you give up on some quality or you give up on future content, your choice...

 

First, I just want to point out that I wasn't dissagreeing with you that those were dubious calls, just wanted to inform.

 

For the second point. The issue, I assume, is that all art assets are shared so that would mean you're also downgrading the esthetics of SP. Argumets could be made both ways in regards to keeping support vs keeping esthetics. 

[Bryan Johnson]

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure something could be done about the size limit. I mean, if they have a limit of 4GB for example, they could use reduced quality textures and/or sounds to keep the total below that 4GB limit. They dont "have" to keep the same level of graphic quality, they just don't want to lower it. I know for some it would be an unacceptable solution, but in theory there is a solution. Either you give up on some quality or you give up on future content, your choice...

The Xbox 360 fit on 2 DVD9s whereas PS4 and Xbox One were on a BD50.

 

Also the last patch for 360 was 810mb to contrast PS4 was 2.25gb

 

The content was the more or less the same so the 'savings' was already from things like texture quality. 

[Orvar83]

The Xbox 360 fit on 2 DVD9s whereas PS4 and Xbox One were on a BD50.

 

Also the last patch for 360 was 810mb to contrast PS4 was 2.25gb

 

The content was the more or less the same so the 'savings' was already from things like texture quality. 

ok, and what about the things the last patch you released broke, is there any chance of at the least getting that to be fixed? sound issues with BE and stability in the rest of the game is considerably worse than it was before with patch 7, or at least give us the opntion to go back to patch 7 and still be able to connect to the servers so that world states can be downloaded for SP.

[Panda]

I only found about drop of patches meaning drop of all support of PS3 and XBOX360 just today. Sigh, it's like Bioware keeps beating us up since the release. Only bad news after bad news, this release has been nothing but trainwreck seriously. After drop of DLC support I was thinking that well this can't get any worse from Bioware for old gen players, but guess what- it did. Good job Bioware for completely destroying my faith to you as company. I surely wonder if Bioware's employers even see this as something they should feel shame for, since they seem to pat themselves pack everytime we get screwed over. Hey there is great news! was the beginning of the news about dropping DLC's on old gen...

[Panda]

Also after seeing some points here by devs I guess I want to give this as feedback. This all ties around unfair treatment towards old gen players that has been alienating us since release from Bioware and pretty much hasn't make players any more polite and nice than they could have been with better treatment.

 

Lack of communication, place of communication and hiding information.

 

Since release I felt like there was lack of communication towards PS3 and XBOX360 players. I have couple times asked Alan and Conal to make thread to old gen players in News and Announcement section right next to PC thread. Why were other players valued so much higher than us? Pc folks got so much more than us, so many fixes in patches and patch fixes and threads and dev attention.. we got nothing. It seriously feels like old gen players are elves in Alienage while PC folks are highest Chantry priestess.. now as DA friendly comparison.

 

Also Conal Pierce.. you promised us in old gen thread that I run to gave us information better ways months ago. And drop of DLC support is next thing I read about months later? Then drop of patch support? And now you getting angry at us being angry at Bioware? What do you devs expect really with this kind of communication? People not getting angry for being in dark months and then having suddenly bad news like continuously slaps on faces?

 

I wasn't able to find this knowledge about stopping patch support of old gen, because it's completely wrong place. Why in the world I would come to multiplayer combat strategy subforum? Isn't right place for this either Dragon Age page's news and/or News and Announcements on these forums with announcement on top of page. There has been announcements for much more minor things like Dragon Age PC beta's. So why not be honest and fair? Why are information givers try to act sly and shifty?

 

Hiding negative information. Seriously it happened with placement of this thread and information as well. And DLC drop was announcement in the article about how there is great news about . We are not that dumb, we will eventually find hidden information and share it and we can figure out bad news from good one's. Only thing that tactics like that will do is make Bioware's reputation drop and players distrust grow. As I Finnish person I'm used to straight talk and not people trying to BS me, it's not considered very polite where I'm from.

 

Drop of support for old gen- both DLC and patches all of sudden

 

This is not common business practice. Usually games do get supported until the end for platforms they are released, otherwise players would be very anxious to purchase the game in any platform, right? Bioware is acting like this is completely necessary and not big deal though, but for us players it's big deal. I watched today DLC trailer that Bioware nicely had uploaded on youtube. I was thinking that I hope it sucks cause otherwise I will be very sad for not being able to p.

 

Drop of old gen support DLC and patch-wise is not necessary either. There is no way Bioware just had to do DLC that old gen can't handle, they could have been realistical and taken old gen limitations to accord with new DLC as well and make sure other parts of DLC would be so amazing that players wouldn't mind. For example story content isn't limited by old gen at all. Nothing also required Bioware to stop patching old gen consoles that are still desperately in need of patches, old gen thread on feedback section (link in my signature) shows it and if game companies like Bethesda can fix broken game that Skyrim was on PS3 and are willing to spent 2 years on it- I'm sure that Bioware could as well. But no, Bioware wants to throw hands up in the air and give up stating how it's necessary to drop all support. Eh, it's not. It's just something Bioware desperately wants to do.

 

Bioware's, EA's and DA teams reputation and relationship with playerbase

 

Don't developers see how this DAI fiasco on old gen has soured both Bioware's reputation and it's relationship with fanbase? I saw someone of devs here commenting how much they like EA and Bioware and it's hurtful for people say mean things about the company. Well, reputation is not something given like that, it's something you have to earn and you can lose. And Bioware has lost a lot with DAI. Sure the game has won some awards, but lot of playerbase have now very sour relationship with the company and will not speak good of it. And Bioware has only itself to blame, if communication would have handled better and platforms and players wouldn't be abandoned like this the situation would be different. It's not like anyone wants to hate Bioware or DAI.. it's unfortunate situation for all of us.

 

What would have helped is 1. communication and 2. compensation. Both were poorly received and thus no damage control was done from Bioware's side.

 

Marketing

 

Please not mislead customers anymore. PS3 and XBOX360 really thought they were getting something really nice that "fullfills potential of the consoles" (this was on developer interview before release). And seriously don't sell us pig on bags anymore, be fair and show content before release on all platforms.

 

Finally thought that has bothered me long time: Why it has felt since the release like old gen players are just nuisance to developers that they can't wait to get rid off, but sadly can't cause they for some reason I can't comprehent were forced to release DAI on old gen gunpoint figuratively?

[Silversmurf]

Sad Panda...

[Silversmurf]

Bioware have already posted on here that the consoles are 9 years old.

 

Consoles do not last forever.

 

How many Playstation 2 games are still supported?

 

Gotta move with the times no matter how painful.  If you didn't see this coming, was your head in the sand?

 

Same thing will happen to PS4........

[sonofbarak]

Bioware have already posted on here that the consoles are 9 years old.

 

Consoles do not last forever.

 

How many Playstation 2 games are still supported?

 

Gotta move with the times no matter how painful.  If you didn't see this coming, was your head in the sand?

 

Same thing will happen to PS4........

 

Has nothing to do when head in the sand. Mocking panda not an great look for you. We all knew eventually we  would had to upgrade but mid game get real. Has nothing to do with pain, when we are ready to move we would have.

[Silversmurf]

Mocking panda not a great look for you.

 

In your opinion.

 

People need to get over it.

[Texasmotiv]

I noticed that there seems to be a lot of game companies double-dipping this time around. There aren't really a lot of great exclusive titles for next gen consoles. All the games that I want to play are pretty much available on last gen and then they just port it and call it "Remastered". Seems a little cheezy to me. Pay full price for a re release of a game that is still available on ps3? (looking at you diablo, last of us, dark souls!). This isn't really the case with DA:I as it was SEVERLY dumbed down for ps3/xb360. Just seems that this is the climate in gaming right now. It's like no one really is committed to the new systems like they have been in previous generation shifts. I am glad I am in the next generation now, I wish though that there was more incentive to do so before. Honestly, If DA:I had only been available on next gen I would have bought a ps4 then (and probably should have).

[GreatBlueHeron]

In your opinion.

People need to get over it.

No, we don't. I'll never be a fan of bad business practices. Hey, if you'd like to buy me a new system, online for a year and a copy of inquisition, I'll take it. Thanks for your generosity in advance.

[CrimsonN7]

I noticed that there seems to be a lot of game companies double-dipping this time around. There aren't really a lot of great exclusive titles for next gen consoles. All the games that I want to play are pretty much available on last gen and then they just port it and call it "Remastered". Seems a little cheezy to me. Pay full price for a re release of a game that is still available on ps3? (looking at you diablo, last of us, dark souls!). This isn't really the case with DA:I as it was SEVERLY dumbed down for ps3/xb360. Just seems that this is the climate in gaming right now. It's like no one really is committed to the new systems like they have been in previous generation shifts. I am glad I am in the next generation now, I wish though that there was more incentive to do so before. Honestly, If DA:I had only been available on next gen I would have bought a ps4 then (and probably should have).

 

I upgraded for DAI, yup right decision.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'll start off by saying I sympathize with the Bioware people here. You guys are dealing with the brunt of it when you (probably?) weren't involved in the decisions. It's an ugly situation.But as a consumer, I can't think of a time I've felt more swindled by a game than I have with DAI.

I've defended ME2, ME3, and DA2 even though I thought those games have had flaws you could drive a full-size pickup truck through. ME2's plot is dumb and the gameplay is overly simplfied. DA2 is held together with twistees and duct tape, most of the plot is dumb (and rushed) and overly simplfied. ME3 is..pretty solid, but the character agency and writing took a real hit. Yet I like all those games despite the flaws, and have put hundreds of hours into each over the years. ME2's companions are great. So are some of DA2's, and Act 2 + Legacy are some of the best writing Dragon Age gets.

DAI though, was just unsatisfying. It's even more simplified than DA2 was, a lot of the quests aren't rewarding, the writing loses all the agency once you get to Skyhold, and dear sweet Maker the port. The horrid 360 (and I assume PS3, for my last-gen brethren on the other side) port. The potato people in the opening scene on the bridge. The banner during the Inquisition's reveal that looks like someone blew up an 8x8 jpg to a hundred times that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

The environments are all damned good, and my hat's off to those people. But the character models are a mess, the aesthetic is a mess, and that's when the stars align and it works. It launched with a conversation bug that ruined a main quest (Western Approach for me) and wasn't patched for two months. The banter bug. The crashes. The Keep glitches. The voice switcheroo. The hair, oh God, the hair. The point-allocation bug. You know the drill.

Eight months in, and a lot of that is still there. The guy on the bridge still looks like he's made out of playdough. The banner still doesn't work. The textures on the armor occasionally work now, so some of them have actual detail. But it's still broken, and the ending leading toward DLC that we'll never actually get is just the icing on the rotten cake that was my experience with DAI. Then there's the utter lack of support. Just go take a gander at the Feedback old-gen thread sometime.

That's the last eight months in a nutshell.

It's been grand, Bioware. I've been there since Baldur's Gate in '98. but I'll think long and hard before any of my money ever changes hands again. Being treated like the unwanted stepchild just cements my feelings on the matter. Nothing but silence, and the periodic excuses.

PS: If I had a nickel for every chucklehead that tried to address anyone's complaints on the old gen consoles with "hurr, you should buy an (Xbox One/PS4/PC)", I'd have enough to buy about mid-range PCs for everyone who felt ripped off in the old-gen feedback thread..

[Geth Supremacy]

I upgraded for DAI, yup right decision.

 

That's what its all about.  As long as you're happy with everything.

 

For me?  While I did give it some serious thought, there is no way I would buy a PS4 just to play DAI.  Especially after all of this.

[Panda]

I upgraded for DAI, yup right decision.

 

That's what its all about.  As long as you're happy with everything.

 

For me?  While I did give it some serious thought, there is no way I would buy a PS4 just to play DAI.  Especially after all of this.

 

Yep it would have been right decision, but it was hard to know when game was released. I had PS3 and not PS4 at the moment and I was also thinking that upgrading just for one game when I have many PS3 games I want still to play was bit too much and I was mostly expecting graphics being well PS3 quality, somewhere around DA2 and ME3 and there to be less NPC's and cosmetic stuff. I wasn't expecting to not get scars, having lot of hard freezes and not having textures load in cutscenes so that characters in some scenes are half of the time without eyebrowns. But maybe I was expecting too much from Bioware.

 

I'm currently planning to buy PS4 for ME:A since then there is more games I want to play with PS4 then and likely price has dropped as well. Won't be getting DAI though, I don't see point owning two copy's of the same game and whole thing with BW has just left very sour taste on my mouth.

[Shadow Hearth]

Dear Bioware, as a loyal customer of your games ever since I was very young, I would like the ability to add my thoughts to this conversation.

 

Please note that I am not blaming any one person for the decisions that you are making and fully understand the reasons that these decisions are being made. Dragon Age Inquisition, on last generation consoles, were simply not up to the standard that next generation consoles and pc versions of the game had available to them. I see that every time I pick up your game on my Xbox 360 to play and have to watch characters render and hair that looks like it's meant for a barbie doll instead of a human being. I hope you understand that I am not complaining about those issues because it was my decision to purchase the game in that form.

However, on that note, I would explain that the reason that I got your game on my old generation console was because you provided me that opportunity. At the time, I did not have the money for a new console, but I had the money for your game. As some of my favorite developers, I wanted to support you. I purchased the Deluxe Edition for the extra content and every time you posted up a new DLC, whether it was just for items or for the Jaws of Hakkon story line, I purchased each and every one immediately. Why? Because I love your games. Because I love Dragon Age. I did so in the hopes to support new DLC content and future games.

As of now, I feel like my decision to support you was simply a ploy to grab my cash and run. I am not only being forced to purchase a new console (which I will) but also a new version of the game just to be able to finish where I left off. I do appreciate you offering me the chance to move my saves from one console to the next, but what about my game? The game that I spent almost $70 on brand new... that I would be lucky to even get $5 for as a trade in somewhere?

All I ask for is the opportunity to trade the old version of my game for a new one. I would even be willing to pay the shipping costs to send you my game and receive a new one. That, or offer us the ability to get the digital download version when we transfer our saves from an old generation console. If you yourself do not have this power, then please send our requests forward to EA - or tell me who we need to contact to see this happen. I'm not asking you to support the old generation consoles... I'm just asking you to make me feel like the money I spent wasn't wasted - money that I could have set back to buy myself a new console instead and waited to purchase your game in it's full, wonderful glory.

I don't believe that this is asking for a miracle or even asking too much. You have some of your most dedicated fans fighting, arguing, complaining and threatening to leave just for this decision. Many of whom aren't even affected by this decision themselves! They are the next generation players or the PC players fighting for the old generation players. Because this decision doesn't have to affect them, it simply affects their fellow fans. And we stick together... because we've stuck with you. Because despite the flaws, despite the problems, despite our complaints, we love your games and we love your company.

And that's all I have to say. I hope you'll consider this... I hope someone will consider this.

[Panda]

Sad Panda...

 

Indeed.

 

Bioware have already posted on here that the consoles are 9 years old.

 

Consoles do not last forever.

 

How many Playstation 2 games are still supported?

 

Gotta move with the times no matter how painful.  If you didn't see this coming, was your head in the sand?

 

Same thing will happen to PS4........

 

That certainly is true. However that thing doesn't happen usually mid-game. Most people did not see that coming, most people are dumbfounded by Bioware suddenly dropping platforms after half year of release. And they still this game on stores, it'll just stay broken and without essential DLC's while being sold same price as the game is for new gen. I have nothing against ME:A being new gen only game and I would have also been okay  AI being one, but I'm not okay for dropping platform that the game was released for. I very much doubt there is many PS2-PS3 cross-gen games as well who suddenly became new-gen games and were dropped on PS2 while still being sold for that system.

[Geth Supremacy]

Bioware have already posted on here that the consoles are 9 years old.

 

Consoles do not last forever.

 

How many Playstation 2 games are still supported?

 

Gotta move with the times no matter how painful.  If you didn't see this coming, was your head in the sand?

 

Same thing will happen to PS4........

 

I assume you are just messing around but my god man.

 

[midnight tea]

That certainly is true. However that thing doesn't happen usually mid-game. Most people did not see that coming, most people are dumbfounded by Bioware suddenly dropping platforms after half year of release. And they still this game on stores, it'll just stay broken and without essential DLC's while being sold same price as the game is for new gen. I have nothing against ME:A being new gen only game and I would have also been okay  AI being one, but I'm not okay for dropping platform that the game was released for. I very much doubt there is many PS2-PS3 cross-gen games as well who suddenly became new-gen games and were dropped on PS2 while still being sold for that system.

 

Back when PS2 was still king, those were different times. I may be wrong, but also those two systems were pretty different, hence there weren't many (any?) cross-gen titles, aside from ports done later... I mean, where there even DLCs or patches for PS2?

 

I think you should rather ask whether there are other games available on old-gen that dropped support/DLC. Aaaaand... there are -> http://arstechnica.c...ng-dlc-support/

BW wasn't the first to do that and likely they won't be last.

 

This also doesn't just happen to games: http://appleinsider....vices-apple-tvs

In fact at this point I'm pretty used to the fact that I can't really do much/buy many apps on my old iPad 2...

[Geth Supremacy]

Back when PS2 was still king, those were different times. I may be wrong, but also those two systems were pretty different, hence there weren't many (any?) cross-gen titles, aside from ports done later... I mean, where there even DLCs or patches for PS2?

 

I think you should rather ask whether there are other games available on old-gen that dropped support/DLC. Aaaaand... there are -> http://arstechnica.c...ng-dlc-support/

BW wasn't the first to do that and likely they won't be last.

 

This also doesn't just happen to games: http://appleinsider....vices-apple-tvs

In fact at this point I'm pretty used to the fact that I can't really do much/buy many apps on my old iPad 2...

 

There were DLCs and patches for PS2.

 

SOCOM 2 (greatest MP game of all time) Had the first balance patch I ever experienced.  It made many changes, but mostly it changed the SP-10 pistol from firing as fast as you could press the button.

 

It also offered a map pack of AMAZING maps Last Basion, Afterhours, and Liberation.

 

SOCOM 3 continued this but the game wasn't nearly as good.

 

I bought FFXI just so I could have the HD to get that content.  And it was worth it.  Not that I had a problem with FFXI or anything.  It was just SOCOM 2 or nothing at that time.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Did people make the same justifications for me3 on wii u not getting anymore patches or dlc?

[Bryan Johnson]

Did people make the same justifications for me3 on wii u not getting anymore patches or dlc?

Just a note, the only patch I believe the Wii U did not get was 1.05 (since 1.04 came out on October 1, and the Wii U came out November 18) which contained only 2 fixes, one of which did not apply at all to Wii U. 

 

As for the DLC, I do not believe DLC was even supported by the console at that point (this point is influenced by what I saw at the time of Wii U launch, since I noticed titles like CoD or Assassins Creed or Baman Arkham City did not have DLC also note CoD released DLC 2 years after it was made). The first mention of DLC (that I could find online) was Assassin's Creed III Wii U which came out April 23rd, 2013, which was after we had finished making DLC (also 6 months after the console had launched). 

[TheThirdRace]

Just a note, the only patch I believe the Wii U did not get was 1.05 (since 1.04 came out on October 1, and the Wii U came out November 18) which contained only 2 fixes, one of which did not apply at all to Wii U. 
 
As for the DLC, I do not believe DLC was even supported by the console at that point (this point is influenced by what I saw at the time of Wii U launch, since I noticed titles like CoD or Assassins Creed or Baman Arkham City did not have DLC also note CoD released DLC 2 years after it was made). The first mention of DLC (that I could find online) was Assassin's Creed III Wii U which came out April 23rd, 2013, which was after we had finished making DLC (also 6 months after the console had launched).

Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure it was because there wasn't enough Wii U sold to justify DLCs. I know a lot of third party developers lost a lot of money by releasing their game to Wii U as a direct result of poor sales at the time. Eventually, they stopped releasing most of their game for that platform, keeping only the most popular ones. It's a slightly different story now because the Wii U finally got a couple very popular first party games that made the Wii U sales jump positively.