639 réponses à ce sujet

[Pork]

Bump because this should be stickied imo

[GreatBlueHeron]

Bump because this should be stickied imo

It wasn't pinned long enough.

[GreatBlueHeron]

I am yet another person who waited awhile to reply because of not wanting to simply have a kneejerk reaction.
 
Sadly, my reaction now is the exact same it was when the announcement was made. "Bioware, you made a poor decision."
 
Let's be honest, here. Anyone who's played your more recent games on PS3 (ME3, DAI) knows that very little testing goes into making sure the port even works, The Collector faction in ME3 multiplayer was literally buggy as hell (get it? because Collectors?) and prone to completely crashing and forcing a hard console reset to fix memory leaks. Don't even get me started on DAI's singleplayer PS3 issues, when you first get to Skyhold. It takes several saves and hard freezes/ restarts just to make it around talking to all your companions.Yet we kept supporting you and putting up with this nonsense just because we love your games so much. Now you announce that you're not even to put in that minimal "just port it and done" effort anymore, despite the thousands and thousands (I haven't checked the numbers, but I'm assuming tens if not hundreds of thousands) of customers who continued to support your ventures on that platform.
EDIT: yeah, I went to double check numbers. 200k-ish each on 360 and PS3. Not counting digital.
 
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. EA's got your chains, and "encouraging" you to "encourage" more players to "upgrade" to milk sales. EA loves to do this. They acquire other companies, run them into the ground until they can't recover, and abandon them. Look no further than Maxis and the SimCity/ Sims 4 debacles, for example. Or Dungeon Keeper Mobile. You guys were one of the few companies they hadn't driven clean into the floor yet, and from here, it looks like they're really starting to try.
 
As someone who's still continued to buy your games on PS3 (and re-buy ones I used to have on the 360!) ever since I changed platforms, I would be lying if I said I didn't feel the slightest bit betrayed by this decision. Nevermind that DAI MP was supposed to have more support than ME3 MP and it hasn't even come close (which WAS a promise that was made, IIRC) but then support was just plain dropped for the platform most people were likely to have at the time of release. I know numerous people who bought it on 360/PS3 just to play Multiplayer with their friends despite already owning next gen consoles by then. These people (My sister is one of them, and she's purchased every ME2/ME3/DA2/DAI DLC you've ever put out, how's that for showing her support?) are now unable to get any future DAI DLC or multiplayer updates at all.
 
Listen, I'm really sorry, but if this is what you guys have been reduced to (again, considering how your PS3 ports often barely worked at all - and we just kept buying them to support you because we love you guys that much, and we endured the issues. And that still took too much effort and was cancelled?) I feel confident in saying a very large number of us will not be supporting you anymore. Even if it is obvious that this is EA's doing, that just makes it all the more obvious why a boycott is a good idea - because supporting you means supporting EA. And this is a practice that shouldn't be supported. I turned a blind eye to WiiU support of ME3 (yes, it came out before DLC was a thing. Would it have taken a whole team to put the last update up once DLC would work? I doubt it.) since it didn't exactly have the whole trilogy anyways, and looking back I feel like an idiot for that because that's exactly what happened here. You set the precedent. We ignored it. Our bad for continuing to trust you.
 
Rest in peace, once great company, home to the same country as I. It's obvious this lost you a lot of customers, and I don't know if you can recover,
 
EDIT: I forgot to say thank you for trying to explain, but I still don't respect your decision. It's true that some people have indeed gotten out of hand and you've been very patient with them, and I respect that. it's just that as a PS3 player, this was the straw that broke the Camel's back.
EDIT 2: I dig this up as an example of what I'm saying about EA. You know, before EA sues me for libel.
https://www.youtube....HchFaxikvCvAVQe

Thanks for the jimquisition vid. I do think he's wrong about Bioware, though. They may be able to hold on for a little while longer, but keep up these awful decisions and they'll be gone, too. It's sad.

And thank you for providing those 360/ps3 numbers. That's not an insignificant amount of money from last gen. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on EA's marketing team sold their coworkers on the idea that ending support WOULD encourage sales as part of a net benefit (the rest of it being less development cost and time). Salespeople tend to be somewhat oblivious to what customers think is a good idea. I'm saying this as a salesperson. Corporate speak tends to drown out any realistic objections to plans. Rather than finding fault within themselves, they blame the customer or make ridiculous predictions on how customers SHOULD react.

[EnemySpinach]

I actually double checked my numbers. 200k-ish was for North America alone. Globally, they sold 460k and 410k spectively. One could make the argument that sure, they were the two lowest selling versions (which honestly surprised me) but PC barely sold any better (510k) and is still getting supported, so that excuse doesn't quite fly. By that logic, why not only support PS4 since it's the only version to break 1 million sales? (1.51 million, as opposed to the 700k of the Xbone)

EDIT: Yes, this is physical copies only. One could make the argument that no one does physical PC copies anymore. But you know what? Last gen has bad loading times for a lot of games, and a downloaded copy loads faster due to not needing to read the disc, so guess what a lot of us ended up doing? Yup. Everyone I know got it digitially. So that excuse doesn't ONLY work for PC)

 

Considering the game was originally built, from the ground up, for last gen (a fact all the current genners love to overlook when blaming last gen for why it's not amazing in every way and blaming last gen for it when it was MADE for last gen and the game was not downscaled for last gen) it really does drive home the point that cancelling support for last gen was a poor move.

My source: http://www.vgchartz....s=0&results=200

The link was down earlier today when I tried to check, so here's a backup screenshot in case: https://i.gyazo.com/...9352820a1f2.png

[GreatBlueHeron]

EnemySpinach, thank you. More people need to see this.

ETA: didn't think it possible, but now I'm more pissed. Ha.

[midnight tea]

I actually double checked my numbers. 200k-ish was for North America alone. Globally, they sold 460k and 410k spectively. One could make the argument that sure, they were the two lowest selling versions (which honestly surprised me) but PC barely sold any better (510k) and is still getting supported, so that excuse doesn't quite fly. By that logic, why not only support PS4 since it's the only version to break 1 million sales? (1.51 million, as opposed to the 700k of the Xbone)

 

I... what? I'm sorry, but this part of argument is just silly and I won't ever get it why people keep using it. PC isn't a specific platform or product that shall forever be limited by how, when and by whom it was created - it's the most flexible, upgradable, least bothersome when it comes to things like certification and will outlive both PS3/Xbox360, PS4/Xbox One and whatever comes next.

 

Besides - are those numbers from sales from the launch day till now, or something from a few months past? Because increasing number of challenges for MP alone seems to suggest that there's about the same amount of (dedicated) PC players that there are on PS4 or Xbox One.

[GreatBlueHeron]

I... what? I'm sorry, but this part of argument is just silly and I won't ever get it why people keep using it. PC isn't a specific platform or product that shall forever be limited by how, when and by whom it was created - it's the most flexible, upgradable, least bothersome when it comes to things like certification and will outlive both PS3/Xbox360, PS4/Xbox One and whatever comes next.
 
Besides - are those numbers from sales from the launch day till now, or something from a few months past? Because increasing number of challenges for MP alone seems to suggest that there's about the same amount of (dedicated) PC players that there are on PS4 or Xbox One.

PCers had the option to get multiplayer for free forever for a limited time, that's why.

The argument isn't silly at all. We got screwed. And you think that's okay. On a game that was designed for last gen.

[Pork]

PCers had the option to get multiplayer for free forever for a limited time, that's why.

The argument isn't silly at all. We got screwed. And you think that's okay. On a game that was designed for last gen.

 

I really dont like how this has just been swept under the rug tbh.

[CitizenThom]

This should definitely be stickied. If only because this game was released at the same price point on PS3/XB360 as it did on PS4/XB1... and yet only the latter two are receiving support. If Bioware and EA think that's kosher, they should sticky it with pride, rather than trying to pretend it never happened.

[Underpromoted]

 

I think that's a fisheye of cauliflower...

[EnemySpinach]

I... what? I'm sorry, but this part of argument is just silly and I won't ever get it why people keep using it. PC isn't a specific platform or product that shall forever be limited by how, when and by whom it was created - it's the most flexible, upgradable, least bothersome when it comes to things like certification and will outlive both PS3/Xbox360, PS4/Xbox One and whatever comes next.

 

Besides - are those numbers from sales from the launch day till now, or something from a few months past? Because increasing number of challenges for MP alone seems to suggest that there's about the same amount of (dedicated) PC players that there are on PS4 or Xbox One.

You don't understand my argument? Well I don't understand yours, and instead of "omg pc is so awesome, give us everything we ever want" I'm actually going to provide valid counterpoints and examples. Not only to reinforce my own point, but to explain why your reasoning is flawed and needs to be reviewed. If your reply back to me isn't any better than your first one, then don't bother replying at all.

 

As time goes on, technology fails. For example, one piece of PCs I've noticed is always particularly prone to this is the video card. The last time I got a whole new PC instead of upgrading/repairing was in late 2007/ early 2008, and the stock video card (which was still good enough to run Crysis - which at the time was basically considered a top-end game that pushed many machines to the limits - but the most intense game I ever ran on it before upgrading it was Oblivion) was on the fritz within five months. I upgraded to a real beast of a card that lasted until mid 2011. (If you're wondering how I remember this so clearly, these were the years fresh out of high school and I was moving around a lot, so remembering the rooms I worked on it in really narrows it down.) I spent literally hundreds on tweaks, repairs, and upgrades just to keep that computer working and able to play games between 2008-2012, where it shorted out and died for good; no one I knew could figure out why, and the only salvageable parts that worked in any other machines were the capacitors (yes, I know some stuff about PCs, I did my own research and work, bite me,) wireless adapter, and hard drive. To this day, I'm still just borrowing an old, barely-functional laptop because of lack of hours/work and inability to afford to build/buy a new rig. This laptop has needed replacement inverters twice to ensure that the screen works at all, has a replacement keyboard rigged up to it since several important keys such as H have stopped working, making it non-portable, and has a battery life of about one hour. All things that could be fixed, sure, but why not just build a new one if you're buying that many replacement parts anyways?

 

On the flip side, on a console, there's always that guarantee of a certain level of quality. You won't need to upgrade your console just to play a new game coming out (very rare exceptions do exist - like the 20 GB 360 needing a hard drive upgrade to play games with obscenes amount of DLC and patches like GTA Online, or presumably very old PS3s with DC Universe Online - but I'm mentioning this because these absurd exceptions do exist. Largely due to the 360 being released with an external removable hard drive to help mitigate prices.) I got my PS3 back in 2010, and while it's slightly less reliable than it used to be (loading times can be up to a few seconds longer depending on game, and is more prone to crashes/freezes than it was when I first got it) I know that if I want to get any PS3 game ever, I will not need to spend a single cent on anything beyond what I'm spending on the game, unlike with the PC. My PS3 was a 300 dollar investment that has never once needed maintenance, upgrades, repairs, or even replacements (still using the same controller it came with, with the same wires it came with, the only change has been headsets which are an external peripheral that works the same across PC and consoles anyways)

 

Now, back to your point. PCs are flexible. This is true. But at the same time, unless you invest quite a bit into getting a top-tier gaming ring, there's also no guarantee that "flexibility" will be anything short of a liability. (Again, consoles are built to the same specs and are expected to run on par with other consoles of the same type.) They're upgradeable. Also true. But if the games are already working just fine, it's a moot point. PCs will outlive console generations? You'd have to be an idiot to argue otherwise, but you still need to upgrade PCs to play new stuff, so moot point. But... least bothersome? LEAST BOTHERSOME!? HAVE YOU EVER -HAD- A CONSOLE? "Especially with things like certification?" So inexcuseable bull like always online DRM, that consoles don't need to put up with? Do you even know what you're saying on this issue? because no, you don't, you absolutely don't.

 

Furthermore, using weekend challenges to argue about dedicated PC players is a moot point anyways, since PC is also home of the hacks. As well, a large number of last gen players have stopped playing out of frustration with BioWare, and we're still making our community challenges, so... lol?

Listen, Midnight Tea. I hate to be "that guy" but all I'm seeing from you is PC entitlement. The kinds of players who take a game that looks amazing on a 60 inch screen in 1080 and force upscale it to 4000-whatever for the reason of "because PC, it has to be pushed to the limit" and then complain about it looking pixelated on a 30 inch monitor. PC gamers find this pixelation to be an outrage, while the rest of shake our heads and go "stop being moronic twits." You know? Please do give more consideration to the things you're saying if you want to be taken seriously, otherwise you just come across as an entitled PC whiner.

[Shadohz]

Why are you people still complaining? You got exactly what you were promised.

"Its going to be a good year for MP, there's a lot of awesome stuff coming down the pipe, and if you decide to check in in a few months I know you'll be pleasantly surprised."

 

Were you not surprised?

[midnight tea]

You don't understand my argument? Well I don't understand yours, and instead of "omg pc is so awesome, give us everything we ever want" I'm actually going to provide valid counterpoints and examples. Not only to reinforce my own point, but to explain why your reasoning is flawed and needs to be reviewed. If your reply back to me isn't any better than your first one, then don't bother replying at all.

 

Well, you obviously don't understand mine, considering you're trying to make it sound like it's all about "PC is awesome, give us everything we want..." *sigh*
But alright...

 

I've used spoiler tag, since the response is quite long.

 

Spoiler

As time goes on, technology fails.

*snip*

 

I'd like to point out that you've basically undermined your entire argument about PC by just that sentence - and then you kept digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole. Yes, computers have many parts that can go wrong, but as you perfectly exemplified that, they CAN be replaced and they can run a gamut of games no old-gen console could, or at quality consoles FAIL to pull, simply by switching a few essential parts. 

 

In 2011 I got myself a new computer - I have to keep upgrading it for work-related reasons (graphic art), so I do that relatively often. At the end of last year, I've decided to basically gut it entirely and replace 90% of parts. Since then I went from running DAI on medium settings to full ultra, as well as running demanding games with next-gen only ports on ultra with hardly any problems.

 

(and before you point out that I've had to basically build a new computer - that was my decision. I wanted a computer that will last years and according to a person who helped me build it, it WILL, even if some of its components were weaker.)

 

Yes, it can be more expensive - I know that myself very well. But you can't do that with a console - it's a piece of hardware that I can't just open and switch a part in order to play next-gen games, even if it only means a slight increase of RAM or a slightly better graphic card.

 

 

On the flip side, on a console, there's always that guarantee of a certain level of quality. You won't need to upgrade your console just to play a new game coming out (very rare exceptions do exist - like the 20 GB 360 needing a hard drive upgrade to play games with obscenes amount of DLC and patches like GTA Online, or presumably very old PS3s with DC Universe Online - but I'm mentioning this because these absurd exceptions do exist. Largely due to the 360 being released with an external removable hard drive to help mitigate prices.)

 

Yes, you DO have to upgrade in order to play new games   Why do you think there are even new consoles on the market? Or why switching form PS3 to 4 or Xbox 360 to Xbox one is oftentimes called an upgrade?

 

So instead of doing it like I can do on a PC, where I can just buy a few essential parts, console players have to buy an entirely new console to keep up with software development.

 

See, this is exactly why PCs are more flexible - aside from being able to switch parts in order to keep my 'old' PC better, even a mediocre "PC" or a laptop offered in store that people buy for everyday use will eventually have enough computing power to run games no old-gen will ever be able to run. This is also why I know quite a few people who don't really buy new games, but play some titles a few years later, while their PCs "catch up" technologically - something consoles are unable to do, ever.

Sony and Microsoft can later release consoles with some hardware improvements, but all in all they remain a static piece of tech. And PS3 and Xbox 360 are now a decade old... and nothing can be done about it. A brand new PS3 - even bough in 2015 - is still, essentially, a PS3.

 

This has nothing to do with entitlement, but reality of technical differences. PCs will never be static like consoles are, and therefore there will always exist a market for a game released for PCs. The success of Steam is a proof of that.

 

 

 I got my PS3 back in 2010, and while it's slightly less reliable than it used to be (loading times can be up to a few seconds longer depending on game, and is more prone to crashes/freezes than it was when I first got it) I know that if I want to get any PS3 game ever, I will not need to spend a single cent on anything beyond what I'm spending on the game, unlike with the PC. My PS3 was a 300 dollar investment that has never once needed maintenance, upgrades, repairs, or even replacements (still using the same controller it came with, with the same wires it came with, the only change has been headsets which are an external peripheral that works the same across PC and consoles anyways)

 

.... Yes, but after the reign of particular generation of console passes, you're facing a necessity of buying next-gen. This is why consoles were created in the first place: to provide a cheap(er) alternative for computers, but with a caveat that every once in a while the entire console will have to be replaced, in order to play new, more technologically advanced games (or accepting that old-gen ports will suffer in terms of quality, compared to next-gen or PC).

 

 

Now, back to your point. PCs are flexible. This is true. But at the same time, unless you invest quite a bit into getting a top-tier gaming ring, there's also no guarantee that "flexibility" will be anything short of a liability. (Again, consoles are built to the same specs and are expected to run on par with other consoles of the same type.) They're upgradeable. Also true. But if the games are already working just fine, it's a moot point. PCs will outlive console generations? You'd have to be an idiot to argue otherwise, but you still need to upgrade PCs to play new stuff, so moot point. But... least bothersome? LEAST BOTHERSOME!? HAVE YOU EVER -HAD- A CONSOLE?

 

I've had PS3 since 2008.

 

And even though prior to my PC upgrade I've had a few issues with my PC, I still bought DAI on my computer, instead of PS3. I think this should tell you enough of my experience with consoles - my PS3 never broke, but after a time I've realized that playing on console is 'easy' (like you describe it) it's also a limited experience.

 

Not just in terms of seeing the quality of games on console dropping compared to what even my 2011 computer with ailing graphic card could pull, but the ability to mod or directly tinker with the game itself, in order to either make it run smoother even on weaker PCs (so much for your accusations of 'whining PC gamer' that wants everything at insane graphic quality...).

 

In any case - aside from console exclusives I haven't been buying new games on my PS3 for quite some after I realized that my console is getting old and I can't do anything about it (well, aside from buying next-gen, which so far I'm not planning).

 

 

"Especially with things like certification?" So inexcuseable bull like always online DRM, that consoles don't need to put up with? Do you even know what you're saying on this issue? because no, you don't, you absolutely don't.

 

Um, apparently you have no clue what I'm talking about. Certification and online DRM are two very different things.

 

 

Furthermore, using weekend challenges to argue about dedicated PC players is a moot point anyways, since PC is also home of the hacks. As well, a large number of last gen players have stopped playing out of frustration with BioWare, and we're still making our community challenges, so... lol?

 

... So your counter-argument to increase of number of challenges for PC (does it matter that they've also increased numbers for Xbox One as well??? Are those console gamers 'hacks' too?) is using a cheap ad hominem? 

Mature, very mature.

 

 

Listen, Midnight Tea. I hate to be "that guy" but all I'm seeing from you is PC entitlement.

*snip*

Please do give more consideration to the things you're saying if you want to be taken seriously, otherwise you just come across as an entitled PC whiner.

 

The aggressive irony in the last paragraph is just too much... *shakes head*

[Pork]

Why are you people still complaining? You got exactly what you were promised.

"Its going to be a good year for MP, there's a lot of awesome stuff coming down the pipe, and if you decide to check in in a few months I know you'll be pleasantly surprised."

Were you not surprised?

Oh god that quote is great.

[CitizenThom]

I imagine a lot of people will no longer be working for Bioware soon enough. Who wants to only be given resources to produce half a product that their bosses will be selling at full price?  I know I'm looking to change careers after a couple years of doing the same thing in architecture (before the recession and during most of the recession this wasn't the case in architecture, but it is now).

 

It has to be even worse for the PR/Marketing people, how long does anyone want to be in the profession of telling what will soon be proven to be lies because your bosses have zero commitment to delivering a quality product?

[GreatBlueHeron]

midnight tea, da inquisition is not a new game. They are forcing upgrade mid cycle. You'd have an argument if people were flipping their ish over mass effect andromeda not being on ps3 and 360.

I'm awaiting your response to this:

PCers had the option to get multiplayer for free forever for a limited time, that's why. 

The argument isn't silly at all. We got screwed. And you think that's okay. On a game that was designed for last gen. 

[CitizenThom]

Bump... for the sake of the historical record. Pin your art on the refrigerator and be proud Bioware/EA....

[Shadow Hearth]

I know that the Bioware team had been responding on earlier posts, but would just like to see what the response would be for them to provide a copy of the game to 360/PS3 owners who are upgrading so that we don't have to re-purchase the game as well as purchasing a new console. It seems like a silly move to not provide some incentive for people to continue playing and continue to support the company. One way or another, this decision IS losing them customers. Honestly, after this fiasco, it makes me hesitant to buy any game from Bioware in the future. And even if I do purchase one, I will be waiting at least a year down the line before I do just to make sure that they aren't stealing my wallet in the process.

[Geth Supremacy]

I imagine a lot of people will no longer be working for Bioware soon enough. Who wants to only be given resources to produce half a product that their bosses will be selling at full price?  I know I'm looking to change careers after a couple years of doing the same thing in architecture (before the recession and during most of the recession this wasn't the case in architecture, but it is now).

 

It has to be even worse for the PR/Marketing people, how long does anyone want to be in the profession of telling what will soon be proven to be lies because your bosses have zero commitment to delivering a quality product?

 

It's possible.  I went to school for drafting.  I was certified in architectural and mechanical.  My passion was cars and I wanted to design them.  Once I learned what the job really entailed and how its basically you just doing exactly what you're told and "making it work" it really turned me off.  I can see how neutering people in video games and killing their creativity can make them hate their job.  At the end of the day working for Bioware/EA is one of the higher places to be.  It may pay the same as all the other places, but one would think the job security is there when you have the titles Bioware has behind you.

 

I think most creative people have this urge in them to run with what they have.  They need to get it out.  You can only suppress it for so long. Either they let it die and just run the paces day to day, or they have to do something where it can get out.

[Panda]

I know that the Bioware team had been responding on earlier posts, but would just like to see what the response would be for them to provide a copy of the game to 360/PS3 owners who are upgrading so that we don't have to re-purchase the game as well as purchasing a new console. It seems like a silly move to not provide some incentive for people to continue playing and continue to support the company. One way or another, this decision IS losing them customers. Honestly, after this fiasco, it makes me hesitant to buy any game from Bioware in the future. And even if I do purchase one, I will be waiting at least a year down the line before I do just to make sure that they aren't stealing my wallet in the process.

 

Yes there has been responses for that as well, at least twitter side. It's mostly: we thought about it, but it wasn't viable and that's it.

[Shadow Hearth]

Yes there has been responses for that as well, at least twitter side. It's mostly: we thought about it, but it wasn't viable and that's it.

Thank you, Panda. I do not have a Twitter account, so I am not following those conversations. It seems silly to say it is not a "viable" option. I paid full price for the game, the same price as those who paid for a PS4/PC/Xbox One version. They are not loosing money by offering that ability to download the game. I'm disappointed by that news.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Thank you, Panda. I do not have a Twitter account, so I am not following those conversations. It seems silly to say it is not a "viable" option. I paid full price for the game, the same price as those who paid for a PS4/PC/Xbox One version. They are not loosing money by offering that ability to download the game. I'm disappointed by that news.

Well, they'd have to eat the cost because of sony and microsoft. That said, I think they should eat the cost. Why are we expected to? We bought the game in good faith, paid the same amount as x1 and ps4 and we are getting less product, not only in content but in support. They developed this game for the old machines. They made a profit on it, too. I'm insulted that they expect me to give them more money. I refuse.

[Kalas Magnus]

Bump because this should be stickied imo

[HeHateMe2626]

Bump because this should be stickied imo

[GrommitSmit]

The Bumpty Dance is your chance to do the bump.
Do the Bumpty Bump, come on and do the Bumpty Bump!

Despite the fact that I got the game again on Xbox One last week, due to gift cards and already having new console, I'm still unhappy with this decision.