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At the end of the day, it all still comes down to this: Bioware chose to abandon a huge player base, and by their own explanation, don't expect them to travel over to the new generation.
Well, let's not over exaggerate here.... Judging the weekend challenge the playerbase is far from large.
However, it still sucks because they were happy to take your money and then drop you 8 months later.
Some points I'd like to remind everyone of:1) If you wish bodily harm or ill to the staff
Ugh.
Staff: I am extremely sorry to hear that this has happened.
Anyone who does this: What is wrong with you? We have license to be upset, but not to turn into crappy humans.
For those, including Billy, who find humor in the fact that I sent my bulk PSN message to "ehlien", I was quite aware of what I was doing. My primary goal was to make players who don't use the forums aware of the situation, and to encourage them to contact EA/Bioware and voice their feelings on the matter. As I was scrolling through and adding every player on my friend's list, I came to his name and thought for a moment as to whether he should be included
My conclusion was that transparency would be the honorable choice, as opposed to the lack thereof, so I included him as well.
Thanks for the snarky comment Billy; those who chose to call me an idiot were at best uninformed, at worst enjoying the safety of their anonymity.
Judging from the replies I've read through thus far(thx ehlien, yes, I know who you are), this decision isn't being well received, though a few dinna believe me, a quick trip to these forums proved my veracity.
BTW, I'll be sending it to all players on my "players met" list today, and am urging everyone concerned to contact their friends as well.
As to Billy's question about "misleading", I think the community has answered that quite thoroughly.
Edit/add: Anyone wishing harm on the devs, or others, have earned my disgust, you should truly be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt the ability to feel shame is part of your makeup.
Why no free next gen game/refund ?
Probably because it would work like this...
A few hundred thousand people bought the game on PS3/Xbox360....and many just for the single player....enjoyed it and stuck it in a cupboard to never be heard from again and are currently perfectly happy customers.
A few hundred people played or continued to play the multi player content and therefore would be due refund/free copy of game on next gen, as has been suggested in other posts.
I actually don't see why offering upgrades doesn't make financial sense, if we're talking downloads for those who transfer accounts. A downloaded game, in and of itself, costs basically nothing. At most a couple cents for bandwidth and a tiny bit of labor to get it up on PSN/XBox One Game Store. The charge is to recoup the cost of game design and development, a charge which these players have already paid.
Going by the weekend challenge goals, fully 25% of active console multiplayer is on previous gen consoles.
A bunch of people got to sign up for free multiplayer recently. It was offered because it makes financial sense to get people on multiplayer however they can: a bunch of those people will buy platinum, and the same logic applies to letting current players upgrade. 25% of console players are not going to be spending much platinum now that it's been made clear there's nothing new in the game for them to want out of those chests. Free MP download on next gen for those who transfer their account doesn't cost BW a penny but both makes their customers happier and lets BW make more money off microtransactions.
As far as the possibility you posit that a bunch of single player people who stuck it in the cupboard would run out and sign up for their free next gen copy:
1. If they stuck it in the cupboard and don't care about it anymore, many probably wouldn't come across the offer.
2. If they do come across the offer and get a free download of the game... so? Isn't that a good thing? They stuck it in the cupboard; they wouldn't have gone out and bought another copy of the game anyways, BW wouldn't be losing any opportunity cost on that transaction. Now that these players have downloaded a new copy of the game, though, some of them will want to play some more, which means some of them will buy DLC and add-on packs that they otherwise wouldn't have. The download cost BW nothing since these people already bought the game before, and now they're actually making money on it.
3. If that's still not good enough and they're freaked that people will not want to play more of their game, fine, tie a new copy of the game to downloading the as-yet-unreleased DLC. BW makes money they wouldn't have otherwise, last gen customers get to continue their relationship with the game and the company.
I'm not in the industry, and I don't rule out that there's some missing step that I don't know about that suddenly makes this horribly unprofitable. But from here, it looks to me like offering upgrades for existing customers is at the very least financially neutral for BW, but more likely this would be net positive.
Well, let's not over exaggerate here.... Judging the weekend challenge the playerbase is far from large.
However, it still sucks because they were happy to take your money and then drop you 8 months later.
They aren't deleting the 100+ hour single player or the coop from your console. If anything you have more stuff there than what you payed for originally.
While a hardware failure forced me to upgrade a few months ago, this does indeed leave a bitter taste in the mouth. I was amazed when I saw that DA:I was even released for the legacy consoles. However, we at least finally got an official response to the speculation, so thank you for that.
And I know that you can spin it all you want "You got the game that you bought, you still have that." But part of that game is the multiplayer aspect, which is now frozen in time. So they will get to see the new characters and DLCs for the new systems while they get nothing. That's enough to make a reasonable person angry. I just wish there had been more transparency in the whole issue. I hate how litigious we have gotten so that we can't have open and honest conversations about these things anymore. I imagine that most of the dev team would have loved to have been able to be up front and open about this from the moment they knew, but threats of litigation and damage to the company they work for and fear for their own jobs have prevented them from it.
So, in summation. This situation sucks all around, for legacy users, for BW employees who have to deal with the fallout, and for the community that gets divided by it. I wish that it didn't have to be this way, but I don't see any other reasonable way for them to handle it. (Maybe a small discount, or to re-open the free PC trial and allow migration there. . . but that's all I've got).
Am I terrible for looking on the bright side? Maybe Xbox One will get an influx of players from the 360?
Am I terrible for looking on the bright side? Maybe Xbox One will get an influx of players from the 360?
Enjoy your 5 new players.... 
You'll probably only get matched with one of them due to region locking.... So make it count.
Well, if one of those 5 happens to be over 1600 prestige. WORTH IT.
Well, if one of those 5 happens to be over 1600 prestige. WORTH IT.
We're talking legacy consoles brah... Most of these people spent their days in Narnia, the other half were getting kicked to black screen 
For those, including Billy, who find humor in the fact that I sent my bulk PSN message to "ehlien", I was quite aware of what I was doing. My primary goal was to make players who don't use the forums aware of the situation, and to encourage them to contact EA/Bioware and voice their feelings on the matter. As I was scrolling through and adding every player on my friend's list, I came to his name and thought for a moment as to whether he should be included
My conclusion was that transparency would be the honorable choice, as opposed to the lack thereof, so I included him as well.
Thanks for the snarky comment Billy; those who chose to call me an idiot were at best uninformed, at worst enjoying the safety of their anonymity.
Judging from the replies I've read through thus far(thx ehlien, yes, I know who you are), this decision isn't being well received, though a few dinna believe me, a quick trip to these forums proved my veracity.
BTW, I'll be sending it to all players on my "players met" list today, and am urging everyone concerned to contact their friends as well.
As to Billy's question about "misleading", I think the community has answered that quite thoroughly.
Edit/add: Anyone wishing harm on the devs, or others, have earned my disgust, you should truly be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt the ability to feel shame is part of your makeup.
The level of immaturity going on right now is far too much. Sending bulk messages to BioWare devs just for pettiness? Really?
BioWare, Electronic Arts and all of the associates already know, without a sliver of doubt, that this move has made fans upset, this combined with the fact that they most likely won't revert their decision, renders all this Romper Room petitioning buffoonery useless and a waste of time on everyone's part.
If I had the game on PS3/360 only, would I be infuriated? Yes, of course. Would I let my anger color, twist, turn and manipulate the answers BioWare has given me regarding my questions? No, because I am capable of using common sense. The community was never mislead. All the community did was disregard logic and reason, then put words in the mouth of BioWare, then complained about the fact that the said words were proven to be made up lies.
Never once did BioWare say in an interview "The older consoles will be supported forever". The article that is being linked all over the place here doesn't even bring up consoles, it just says "DAIMP support will be continued for further than MEMP", which is ambiguous, but it doesn't automatically mean that it will be supported for all consoles. Video game articles aren't Pink Floyd: The Wall where every line and word has to be analyzed to find a greater meaning. It was you who made the assumptions. Don't attack the devs because of your own assumptions.
The best thing we all can do as of this moment, is to get off Billy's back, followed by letting this go. Swallowing poison and hoping that EA/BioWare dies is not a healthy way to live.
Going by the weekend challenge goals, fully 25% of active console multiplayer is on previous gen consoles.
I'm pretty terrible at math, but judging by last challenge, the number of old-gen console players is hardly 25%.
PC alone seems to have 4x more players than both old-gens combined. In fact, it seems that the number of PC players has grown exponentially in last few weeks, likely due to free trial.
Free trial needs to happen on next gen consoles. Legacy peeps wouldn't need to purchase for MP content.
Shackleshotgun, I'm not sure how you could interpret my messaging as "just for pettiness", that is certainly not my intent, and I believe I made that clear. My intent was to inform the PS3 community, the vast majority being unaware of the situation. As I clearly stated, I included "ehlien" for the sake of transparency. As for "getting off Billy's back", as the chosen rep for this decision I'm sure he has the maturity and experience to handle his job.
At no point have I made any personal attacks, or posted purely for spite or pettiness, no matter how others may choose to view things. I find that treating folks on the internet the same as I would face to face is the best policy for me. Most of the hostility I've seen in this particular thread comes from folk with no dog in this fight.
I will continue to spread the word on this situation, and many others are joining in, which leads me to another question for the devs.
Why is it that this news doesn't appear on Facebook, or Twitter, where, it seems to me, you could reach the largest number of players?
I'm pretty terrible at math, but judging by last challenge, the number of old-gen console players is hardly 25%.
PC alone seems to have 4x more players than both old-gens combined. In fact, it seems that the number of PC players has grown exponentially in last few weeks, likely due to free trial.
Nah, I'm just not doing what you think I'm doing: I said 25% of console multiplayer is happening on a legacy console. No lack of love for the PC community, but as none of this will affect them in terms of player gain or loss, it doesn't seem meaningful to include them in this particular analysis. In the console community, 80k nugs asked for on PS4, 20k on PS3, 20k on X Box 360, 40k on X 1. (20000 + 20000) / 160000 = 25%.
Shackleshotgun, I'm not sure how you could interpret my messaging as "just for pettiness", that is certainly not my intent, and I believe I made that clear. My intent was to inform the PS3 community, the vast majority being unaware of the situation. As I clearly stated, I included "ehlien" for the sake of transparency. As for "getting off Billy's back", as the chosen rep for this decision I'm sure he has the maturity and experience to handle his job.
At no point have I made any personal attacks, or posted purely for spite or pettiness, no matter how others may choose to view things. I find that treating folks on the internet the same as I would face to face is the best policy for me. Most of the hostility I've seen in this particular thread comes from folk with no dog in this fight.
I will continue to spread the word on this situation, and many others are joining in, which leads me to another question for the devs.
Why is it that this news doesn't appear on Facebook, or Twitter, where, it seems to me, you could reach the largest number of players?
That's fair, to some extent even though your response to Billy calling you out came off as childish and the "transparency" argument makes very little sense, but to each his own I guess.
A big portion of my post was aimed towards the community as a whole though.
And the news is all over twitter and tumblr. The reason it isn't on Facebook is because, let's face it, who uses that anymore, especially for gaming news. A quick google search for "Dragon Age dlc" results in about 6 articles about the issue. By all means, if you think it helps, post the link to the thread on twitter and facebook. There is nothing wrong with bringing awareness, but please don't start launching smear campaigns against EA/BioWare.
Yumi,
You are correct to say certain consoles are becoming obsolete and time to save for an upgrade, however I think the argument here is that the game should never have been released on those consoles in the first place if they were not going to be supported for the life of the game. That's just insulting to their player base. Now those people have to buy a new console, a new game, and transfer their data. Yeah, I'd feel a little more than put out.
Unfortunately, neither you or I have enough information to determine who knew what and when they knew it.
Did the BW team know when the game released this was the case?
Do lower ranking employees like developers (within the corporate hierarchy) ever get information like this until the last absolute minute? (when they are used as tar-feathered whipping children).
Did BW have anything to even do with this decision? You sure this doesn't have the distinct odor of EA all over it?
Ultimately, the head executives of EA are the ones responsible for this. If any player feels deceived by the life cycle support, you should be taking your anger out on EA's executives and board of directors.
Hey Everyone,
I would like to reiterate that you please be respectful of both the devs and one another in this thread. We understand if you are upset, and respect that fact, however, that is no excuse to be rude or abusive to anyone in this thread.
If you choose to continue to violate the terms and services of this board, I will start handing out suspensions.
The multiplayer team is doing their best to answer your concerns and address the questions as you raise them. For a variety of reasons, they may not be able to answer everything, or to answer specific points to a level you consider satisfactory. Again, i understand many of you are not happy with the decision to no longer provide DLC and patches on PS3 and Xbox 360. That being said, there will be zero tolerance for any posts directly harassing another member of these boards, or any activity that encourages such behaviour.
Please play nice with one another.
FYI, my response to Billy was in regards to "ehlien's" reply to me via PSN; I'm not in the habit of sharing received correspondence, but possibly I answered snark with snark. As far as transparency, or the lack thereof, I think that is the very heart of the issue at hand. Concerning FB, there are currently over 1.3 million followers of the Dragon Age page, which seems to show that indeed, some folks do use FB.
FWIW, here is the message I am sending via PSN, and other sources; if there is anything remotely resembling a "smear campaign" to be inferred, I'd like to know what it is. It was meant to inform.
Subject: DAMP support ended
"EA/Bioware announced today there will be no more support for DAI on PS3 and XBox360 systems, this means not only no more DLC, but also no more patches. Bugs and glitches currently present will not be fixed, and no new content will be added. If you find this to be unacceptable, please take the time to let them know your thoughts, via email, phone or their forums."
I've sent this to well over 200 users as of now, many of whom have responded and started their own messaging, and plan to continue. As a consumer, and owner of a gaming business for many years, I've found mass mailings to be at least somewhat effective; whether it will be so in this case remains to be seen. If it seems foolish or immature to some, so be it, that is no concern of mine, and affects my resolve not a bit.
FYI, my response to Billy was in regards to "ehlien's" reply to me via PSN; I'm not in the habit of sharing received correspondence, but possibly I answered snark with snark. As far as transparency, or the lack thereof, I think that is the very heart of the issue at hand. Concerning FB, there are currently over 1.3 million followers of the Dragon Age page, which seems to show that indeed, some folks do use FB.
FWIW, here is the message I am sending via PSN, and other sources; if there is anything remotely resembling a "smear campaign" to be inferred, I'd like to know what it is. It was meant to inform.
Subject: DAMP support ended
"EA/Bioware announced today there will be no more support for DAI on PS3 and XBox360 systems, this means not only no more DLC, but also no more patches. Bugs and glitches currently present will not be fixed, and no new content will be added. If you find this to be unacceptable, please take the time to let them know your thoughts, via email, phone or their forums."
I've sent this to well over 200 users as of now, many of whom have responded and started their own messaging, and plan to continue. As a consumer, and owner of a gaming business for many years, I've found mass mailings to be at least somewhat effective; whether it will be so in this case remains to be seen. If it seems foolish or immature to some, so be it, that is no concern of mine, and affects my resolve not a bit.
I will confirm that is what he sent out. Verbatim.
This is the most fitting solution and also the most logically and elegantly explained. BW loses nothing in shipping/refunding/sending physical copies and at the same time may reign in more SP folk to continue purchasing DLC where they might not have before. I also believe this gesture would be accepted by the majority of old genners as a show of good faith, mostly quelling the negative PR this decision has inflamed. It's a way to ensure damage control.I actually don't see why offering upgrades doesn't make financial sense, if we're talking downloads for those who transfer accounts. A downloaded game, in and of itself, costs basically nothing. At most a couple cents for bandwidth and a tiny bit of labor to get it up on PSN/XBox One Game Store. The charge is to recoup the cost of game design and development, a charge which these players have already paid.
Going by the weekend challenge goals, fully 25% of active console multiplayer is on previous gen consoles.
A bunch of people got to sign up for free multiplayer recently. It was offered because it makes financial sense to get people on multiplayer however they can: a bunch of those people will buy platinum, and the same logic applies to letting current players upgrade. 25% of console players are not going to be spending much platinum now that it's been made clear there's nothing new in the game for them to want out of those chests. Free MP download on next gen for those who transfer their account doesn't cost BW a penny but both makes their customers happier and lets BW make more money off microtransactions.
As far as the possibility you posit that a bunch of single player people who stuck it in the cupboard would run out and sign up for their free next gen copy:
1. If they stuck it in the cupboard and don't care about it anymore, many probably wouldn't come across the offer.
2. If they do come across the offer and get a free download of the game... so? Isn't that a good thing? They stuck it in the cupboard; they wouldn't have gone out and bought another copy of the game anyways, BW wouldn't be losing any opportunity cost on that transaction. Now that these players have downloaded a new copy of the game, though, some of them will want to play some more, which means some of them will buy DLC and add-on packs that they otherwise wouldn't have. The download cost BW nothing since these people already bought the game before, and now they're actually making money on it.
3. If that's still not good enough and they're freaked that people will not want to play more of their game, fine, tie a new copy of the game to downloading the as-yet-unreleased DLC. BW makes money they wouldn't have otherwise, last gen customers get to continue their relationship with the game and the company.
I'm not in the industry, and I don't rule out that there's some missing step that I don't know about that suddenly makes this horribly unprofitable. But from here, it looks to me like offering upgrades for existing customers is at the very least financially neutral for BW, but more likely this would be net positive.
As I clearly stated, I included "ehlien" for the sake of transparency. As for "getting off Billy's back", as the chosen rep for this decision I'm sure he has the maturity and experience to handle his job.
With regards to this point in particular, no, Billy is not the person you should be sending messages to with regards to this decision. He has come on these boards, as he has done in the past, in efforts to create more transparency and to address the community's concerns as best he can.
He is doing this of his own free will and in his spare time. Targetting developers who choose to take time to work with the community with mass mailing/messaging campaigns is not an appropriate way to get a response. In fact, it's a surefire way to scare someone away from wanting to talk to the community.
Billy and the multiplayer team are doing their best to be open and honest with you about these decisions, and are addressing what they can, when they can.
If you would like to make your thoughts known, I would encourage you to contact @dragonage on twitter and facebook, or contacting EA support directly. These are the appropriate places to encourage people to post, or send messages.
Billy and his team will still get your feedback when you submit it in this fashion, but it will be more manageable and comprehensive than personally inundating him with responses.
Thanks for understanding.
FYI, my response to Billy was in regards to "ehlien's" reply to me via PSN; I'm not in the habit of sharing received correspondence, but possibly I answered snark with snark. As far as transparency, or the lack thereof, I think that is the very heart of the issue at hand. Concerning FB, there are currently over 1.3 million followers of the Dragon Age page, which seems to show that indeed, some folks do use FB.
FWIW, here is the message I am sending via PSN, and other sources; if there is anything remotely resembling a "smear campaign" to be inferred, I'd like to know what it is. It was meant to inform.
Subject: DAMP support ended
"EA/Bioware announced today there will be no more support for DAI on PS3 and XBox360 systems, this means not only no more DLC, but also no more patches. Bugs and glitches currently present will not be fixed, and no new content will be added. If you find this to be unacceptable, please take the time to let them know your thoughts, via email, phone or their forums."
I've sent this to well over 200 users as of now, many of whom have responded and started their own messaging, and plan to continue. As a consumer, and owner of a gaming business for many years, I've found mass mailings to be at least somewhat effective; whether it will be so in this case remains to be seen. If it seems foolish or immature to some, so be it, that is no concern of mine, and affects my resolve not a bit.
You are telling people why they are cutting it though right?
To be very clear, once again.
I did not intend to target "ehlien", but when I saw his name on my list, though I have never played with him, nor remembered which of you lads he was, decided to include him so that he, and EA/Bioware would be aware of the mailings. There has been no inundation aimed towards devs on my part, nor have I asked anyone to contact any one person in particular.
Frankly, the idea that a developer could be scared off by consumer response isn't very encouraging.
My goal is to inform players/customers, they are free to choose their own methods of making their voices heard.
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