639 réponses à ce sujet

[Denrok1]

I do not understand the outrage expressed in this thread. Bioware made a business decision to no longer support a free service, emphasis on free, on consoles that are almost a decade old. This is not a problem specific to Bioware. Other gaming companies are going to have to pull the plug on support for games on the older consoles too when a company's limited resources are better spent elsewhere. Elsewhere as in other areas of the company that generate more revenue. Heck, Microsoft is going to stop supporting the 360 in 2016. Food for thought.

[Felis Menari]

I do not understand the outrage expressed in this thread. Bioware made a business decision to no longer support a free service, emphasis on free, on consoles that are almost a decade old. This is not a problem specific to Bioware. Other gaming companies are going to have to pull the plug on support for games on the older consoles too when a company's limited resources are better spent elsewhere. Elsewhere as in other areas of the company that generate more revenue. Heck, Microsoft is going to stop supporting the 360 in 2016. Food for thought.

There was no heads up prior to launch that DA:I on the 360 and PS3 would lose access to DLC and patches that would still be rolling out for other platforms. This is the sort of thing that could make or break a sale, and is information consumers should have had access to prior to their purchase. It's as simple as that.

[Geth Supremacy]

There was no heads up prior to launch that DA:I on the 360 and PS3 would lose access to DLC and patches that would still be rolling out for other platforms. This is the sort of thing that could make or break a sale, and is information consumers should have had access to prior to their purchase. It's as simple as that.

 

I don't know.  Seems like rocket science to some. 

 

Also given that information these is no way I would have bought the game.  Although now I will never buy any of their games...if i need to get one to play with friends it wont be first hand.

[Denrok1]

There was no heads up prior to launch that DA:I on the 360 and PS3 would lose access to DLC and patches that would still be rolling out for other platforms. This is the sort of thing that could make or break a sale, and is information consumers should have had access to prior to their purchase. It's as simple as that.

I see what you are saying but when we all purchased DA:I, we did not purchase the right to any future DLC on our respective consoles, we purchased what was in our current copy of DA:I at the date of purchase. The choice to release future DLC, patches, and on what consoles is up to the discretion of Bioware.

If surprise announcements like the one Bioware made are upsetting, I suggest gamers decide to upgrade their systems to the latest consoles sooner rather than later, or at the very least understand their games will run out of support more readily than their newer model counterparts like most other things in life.

[JAMiAM]

As a PC user, one might say that I don't have a dog in this fight, but that's not really true.  In fact, the decision to abandon future support for two of the five platforms that this game was released on will (at least theoretically) allow a consolidation of resources, and cost efficiencies in the DLC/patch/certification processes that should yield greater benefits to me, as well as all other PC, PS4, and Xbone users.  So, from a both a purely selfish point of view, and a pragmatic one, this helps me, as well as the vast majority of the future players of DA:I.

 

That said, I can understand the sense of abandonment and betrayal that the PS3 and Xbox360 users have.  However, some of the comments in the following post, I  think, should be addressed.

 

Speaking of transparency... why only tell players on this forum? That's only being transparent to a very small percentage of the PS3/Xbox360 player base. Not everyone checks these forums, or even know they exist.

 

It's completely unfair to the rest of the players that will continue to invest time and money in a game you no longer support for them, when you're not informing them of your decision to do so.

 

I applaud Brew's efforts to communicate this momentous news to the community of players he knows on PS3 and beyond. Bioware, you've done nothing to communicate the news beyond this forum. That's sad, and bad PR. You remain active on FB and Twitter, but nothing has been said on those mediums about this decision to kick us to the curb after we stuck it out for 8 months.

Any players that do not check these forums on a regular basis are highly unlikely to even notice that the support has been discontinued.  Why should EA/BioWare create a bigger PR problem than it already has?  Makes absolutely no sense.  BioWare is being transparent on the issue, here, within the community where the most involved players are.  What would you have them do?  Rent billboards near every internet cafe to trumpet the news?  The announcement, as a matter of course, will be repeated throughout the various industry media outlets - surely with the same variations of outrage, empathy, resignation, acceptance and support that it has seen in this very thread, and others in the forum.  

 

I also want to emphasize that I greatly respect Brewskin's tact in the messages he's sent out, and the clarifications he has given in this very thread as to his motivations and choices.  He is advocating a grass-roots campaign for users  to contact EA/BioWare to express their concerns.  Conal has been forthcoming enough as to provide some points of contact where this might best be directed, so that the displeasure filters to the appropriate personnel in EA/BioWare.  Will it make a difference?  Only time will tell.

[Saigeo]

Denrok,

It's a bit like a car manufacturer deciding it won't warranty or support their products in, say, Alaska. If people know in advance they won't buy it, if they don't find out until afterwards they will be rightfully upset. Bioware shouldn't have sold it without a disclaimer.

It's not as if this game is going to bring out that much more material indefinitely. Why not foster goodwill and suck it up, so to speak?

[Felis Menari]

I see what you are saying but when we all purchased DA:I, we did not purchase the right to any future DLC on our respective consoles, we purchased what was in our current copy of DA:I at the date of purchase. The choice to release future DLC, patches, and on what consoles is up to the discretion of Bioware.

If surprise announcements like the one Bioware made are upsetting I suggest gamers decide to upgrade their systems to the latest consoles sooner rather than later, or at the very least understand their games will run out of support more readily than their newer model counterparts like most other things in life.

Ultimately, the takeaway from this fiasco is that nobody should ever buy a copy of a game for an old console if there's a version for a newer one, lest they run the risk of having support for their version dropped simply for being on an old machine. In other words, the 360 and PS3 versions of DA:I shouldn't have even been made. Yes, some people might have been upset over that, but I daresay it would be a far cry from the disappoinment and anger aimed at EA/Bioware right now.

[Denrok1]

Denrok,
It's a bit like a car manufacturer deciding it won't warranty or support their products in, say, Alaska. If people know in advance they won't buy it, if they don't find out until afterwards they will be rightfully upset. Bioware shouldn't have sold it without a disclaimer.
It's not as if this game is going to bring out that much more material indefinitely. Why not foster goodwill and suck it up, so to speak?

Good point. Why not foster goodwill? That is a good question. Most easy answer is corporate told Bioware that it was no longer profitable to support PS3 and 360 and the amount of money lost to keep the older consoles going would have negated any goodwill gained for keeping the older consoles going.

I do not know Bioware's history but Is it safe to ask if EA was not their parent company perhaps this announcement would never have occurred? Boutique companies typically focus on customer satisfaction since they can not suffer negative turnover.

[Denrok1]

Ultimately, the takeaway from this fiasco is that nobody should ever buy a copy of a game for an old console if there's a version for a newer one, lest they run the risk of having support for their version dropped simply for being on an old machine. In other words, the 360 and PS3 versions of DA:I shouldn't have even been made. Yes, some people might have been upset over that, but I daresay it would be a far cry from the disappoinment and anger aimed at EA/Bioware right now.

Unfortunately yes, and also, let us not forget, Bioware is owned by EA. EA is giving the orders not Bioware, so if there is any anger, direct it at EA and not to Bioware's department. I think they have done a remarkable job considering the circumstances.

[coffbear7]

I really don't know how to feel, or if I should even waste any emotion at all on the subject. I would have to say though, if your not a PS3 or 360 DAMP player, it would be nice if you would keep any opions about how we should or shouldn't react to yourself. Its bad enough that we won't enjoy any additional content or rearranging of anything, but then theres a dark cloud of impending shreading of our respective player bases. Our profiles are: systems old & community small and shrinking. We don't need our collective teeth kicked in any further by those outside or inside our respective communities. I guess the "I accept" caveate  swings both ways. Accept the reality, "we" seem to have got had.

 

I don't blame or wish any ill will to the messenger. Heck if I knew about this and wanted to keep my job, I'd tell people what I was told to tell them too! This is the REALITY I have been eluding to for some time now. Pointing fingers at someone else and crying "citizens arrest" dosen't make the bite "we" had to take out this crap sandwhich taste any better now, dose it?

[BadgerladDK]

Just a quick note to those suggesting free updates to next gen versions should be given out and that it'd cost EA nothing: That's not strictly true, while they have little actual cost in shipping off a digital copy, Sony and Microsoft are still going to want the slice of the cake they get for a download through their stores. So there is a cost. Now, if that's a cost EA should swallow is another matter, but it wouldn't be free to them.

[scene_cachet]

Anyone who is affected by this should receive support for the gaming community they are part of instead of "You should have expected it" or "You have no right to complain" when they actually have every right to complain. 

 

The damage was done when they started developing on Legacy gen to begin with, we haven't had any commitment from Bioware that our next gen and PC versions are going to get a huge feature rich update to bring us more up to date with modern standards... The only difference to our game is a measly 50 inventory space.

 

Do you forget the long period this game was left for dead on all platforms, no balance tweaks, no DLC and no bug fixes.... That happened on all platforms until people started complaining. This game was dead on arrival by the time they started doing anything, first thing they did were weekend challenges for "community enrichment" but was more likely "end user analytics".

 

Simple fact is... The current state all platforms can't even hit any of their weekly target of 80k nugs and if you wan't to even have a chance of hitting that you have to give away the multiplayer free to people who never paid for the game to begin with and who will probably be on a new game 2 days later.

 

I wouldn't be celebrating the dropping of support for these legacy platforms, because at the end of the day it's all about numbers and I would be expecting a pretty similar fate coming our way if this next DLC fails to reinvigorate the players they left behind at launch.

 

So anyone who has been shitting on their fellow gamer with the "You guys deserve this because my game still works and I'm better than you" attitude should know that you also support anti-consumer policies, no dedicated servers, casino style rng, monetized in-game real currency transaction, region locked matchmaking and game breaking bugs.                           

[TormDK]

Scene - Yes, clearly all these things are connected!

 

I heard that we also support communism if we allow this to continue! To arms against the reds!

 

/sarcasm.

 

PS; Your logical fallicy is "Slippery slope".

[scene_cachet]

Scene - Yes, clearly all these things are connected!

 

I heard that we also support communism if we allow this to continue! To arms against the reds!

 

/sarcasm.

 

PS; Your logical fallicy is "Slippery slope".

 

FYI they actually are all connected because it's all part of the same game.

[Texasmotiv]

Not all things connected are the same thing. Haven't you ever heard the 'Dem Bones' song?

[Darth Krytie]

Has anyone considered the fact that they didn't know prior to launch that they wouldn't be supporting this throughout the DLC? Because here's what probably happened:

When they made Jaws of Hakkon, they probably encountered a lot of problems keeping it level with last gen. It probably wasn't worth the cost of it. They probably realised in order to make the future DLC, they'd need to leave the past gen behind.

 

This wasn't some sort of long-game of trickery. It's not like companies like making decisions like that and fostering bad will.

 

So, yes, they probably shouldn't have made the games on last gen. But they did. And there are many people who bought and enjoyed the game. There wasn't a  guarantee that future DLC would be made factored into the purchase of the base game. Assumptions by consumers are not binding.

 

Here's another thing. EA/BioWare, like every other game studio, are a business. They need to make a profit to be able to fund future games. This is a reality. They have employers to pay, IP to develop, buildings to upkeep, equipment to upkeep, etc. They need to make good business decisions and not all of them are going to be popular with everyone. Stop treating the employees of BioWare, who do not make these decisions, like trash due to not liking decisions their companies made. It's not fair. It's also not fair to expect a business to constantly make money-losing decisions to appease a small, vocal number of people that would inevitably harm their sustainability as a company.

[scene_cachet]

Has anyone considered the fact that they didn't know prior to launch that they wouldn't be supporting this throughout the DLC? Because here's what probably happened:

When they made Jaws of Hakkon, they probably encountered a lot of problems keeping it level with last gen. It probably wasn't worth the cost of it. They probably realised in order to make the future DLC, they'd need to leave the past gen behind.

 

This wasn't some sort of long-game of trickery. It's not like companies like making decisions like that and fostering bad will.

 

So, yes, they probably shouldn't have made the games on last gen. But they did. And there are many people who bought and enjoyed the game. There wasn't a  guarantee that future DLC would be made factored into the purchase of the base game. Assumptions by consumers are not binding.

 

Here's another thing. EA/BioWare, like every other game studio, are a business. They need to make a profit to be able to fund future games. This is a reality. They have employers to pay, IP to develop, buildings to upkeep, equipment to upkeep, etc. They need to make good business decisions and not all of them are going to be popular with everyone. Stop treating the employees of BioWare, who do not make these decisions, like trash due to not liking decisions their companies made. It's not fair. It's also not fair to expect a business to constantly make money-losing decisions to appease a small, vocal number of people that would inevitably harm their sustainability as a company.

 

No, I think what they realized with Hakkon is timed exclusivity deals on DLC doesn't sell enough DLC. It's already being offered for bargain basement prices only a few months from it's release. Not to mention it reviewing poorly.

 

Also, it's never a good business decision to turn your back on a large proportion of your fans. Especially the ones that have been funding your IP since it was created.

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

This thread needed more lube.

[HeHateMe2626]

No, I think what they realized with Hakkon is timed exclusivity deals on DLC doesn't sell enough DLC. It's already being offered for bargain basement prices only a few months from it's release. Not to mention it reviewing poorly.

Also, it's never a good business decision to turn your back on a large proportion of your fans. Especially the ones that have been funding your IP since it was created.

Well said

[Conal Pierse]

Speaking of transparency... why only tell players on this forum? That's only being transparent to a very small percentage of the PS3/Xbox360 player base. Not everyone checks these forums, or even know they exist.

 

It's completely unfair to the rest of the players that will continue to invest time and money in a game you no longer support for them, when you're not informing them of your decision to do so.

 

I applaud Brew's efforts to communicate this momentous news to the community of players he knows on PS3 and beyond. Bioware, you've done nothing to communicate the news beyond this forum. That's sad, and bad PR. You remain active on FB and Twitter, but nothing has been said on those mediums about this decision to kick us to the curb after we stuck it out for 8 months.

The discontinuation of DLC and patches on Xbox360 and PS3 was announced publicly alongside the release of the save importer system.

Billy chose to talk about what this means for multiplayer in more depth on these boards because this is where our more vocal and active members of the community are. This is also where the multiplayer team has been coming for the past several months to talk directly to our players.

Accusing the team of not being transparent because they are actively posting here is ridiculous. Had something gone out over twitter, we'd see people complaining that we are using social media that "not everyone checks" instead of posting on our own boards (as we regularly have in the past). Had we posted on reddit or neogaf instead of these boards, it would be the same.

For a variety of reasons, there are things they simply are not able to go into detail on, which I know can be frustrating at times.Please understand that the team is doing their best to address your concerns and answer questions.

[lynroy]

No, I think what they realized with Hakkon is timed exclusivity deals on DLC doesn't sell enough DLC. It's already being offered for bargain basement prices only a few months from it's release. Not to mention it reviewing poorly.

 

Also, it's never a good business decision to turn your back on a large proportion of your fans. Especially the ones that have been funding your IP since it was created.

I'd definitely say they were turning their backs if they didn't provide a way for people to carry their SP saves and MP loots over.

[ruggie]

Most ps3 players would have updated to the 4 if it didn't release on the 3. Countless friends did it just for eldet scrolls. I probably would have and I'm sure I'm not the only one. But the way they handled this when I do upgrade within the month I will only be buying used bioware games. I advise others to do the same.

[Denrok1]

Anyone who is affected by this should receive support for the gaming community they are part of instead of "You should have expected it" or "You have no right to complain" when they actually have every right to complain. 
 
The damage was done when they started developing on Legacy gen to begin with, we haven't had any commitment from Bioware that our next gen and PC versions are going to get a huge feature rich update to bring us more up to date with modern standards... The only difference to our game is a measly 50 inventory space.
 
Do you forget the long period this game was left for dead on all platforms, no balance tweaks, no DLC and no bug fixes.... That happened on all platforms until people started complaining. This game was dead on arrival by the time they started doing anything, first thing they did were weekend challenges for "community enrichment" but was more likely "end user analytics".
 
Simple fact is... The current state all platforms can't even hit any of their weekly target of 80k nugs and if you wan't to even have a chance of hitting that you have to give away the multiplayer free to people who never paid for the game to begin with and who will probably be on a new game 2 days later.
 
I wouldn't be celebrating the dropping of support for these legacy platforms, because at the end of the day it's all about numbers and I would be expecting a pretty similar fate coming our way if this next DLC fails to reinvigorate the players they left behind at launch.
 
So anyone who has been shitting on their fellow gamer with the "You guys deserve this because my game still works and I'm better than you" attitude should know that you also support anti-consumer policies, no dedicated servers, casino style rng, monetized in-game real currency transaction, region locked matchmaking and game breaking bugs.

Oh don't get me wrong, you have my fullest support of sympathy and regards. I think it stinks you guys were cut off. I would be very upset too. I just understand why the suits at EA did what they did.

[ruggie]

Denrok I understand what they did until I realize they still released it on last gen. No warning no offer of discount for upgrading just a big fu to us imo. I know I'm not the only one who would have upgraded to ps4 to play this game but since it came out in ps3 I didn't see a need for a need to upgrade. They had to have planned this so why were we left in the dark for so long. We played this when keys wouldn't drop and countless other bugs just to get the door slammed in our face when the game finally gets new content after like 6 months or more.

[scene_cachet]

I'd definitely say they were turning their backs if they didn't provide a way for people to carry their SP saves and MP loots over.

 

On condition that they rebuy a game they already own in order to play any future paid content.... Nikel-and-dime.

 

Oh don't get me wrong, you have my fullest support of sympathy and regards. I think it stinks you guys were cut off. I would be very upset too. I just understand why the suits at EA did what they did.

 

I'm on PS4 and played the game on PS4. But yes, feel sorry for them and support them because in all honesty I have no idea why there hasn't been a gesture of goodwill to their fans.

 

But seriously, everyone's gotta stop making up excuses for these companies because you won't be doing the same when they screw you over.