73 réponses à ce sujet

[uzivatel]

Different currency?
Seems like the gold coins in Inquisition are valued less than one silver in Origins.

[In Exile]

So an Elfroot in DAO was 3 copper pieces. You could buy 33 for a silver, and 3300 for a gold soverign.

Now when I play DAI I imagine all the merchants like this:

"Hello miss, of course you can buy an elfroot, that'll be three coopers. have a nice day"

"Hello sir, I too am in need of some elfroot. I am the inquisitor".

"Really? Bet you have a lot of money... that'll be one soverign each".

"Wonderful! Oh and that schematic looks good, how much for that?"

"R-really? Uh, 10 soverigns for the elfroot... and that schematic will be... 1100 soverigns?"

"Sure thing."

"H-have a nice day sir."

And then every single merchant in the game buys their own private island.

Seriously, who designed this economy? It's totally silly. It'd be like going out and buying a piece of gum at a 7-11 for $100. Did they just decide the lore from past games was totally unimportant?

DAOs economy is gibberish. DAIs is equally nonsensical, but comparing one sort of gibberish to another and pretending like one is better is silly.

[SwobyJ]

The Inquisitor comes across as a fumbler. Fumbling around the lands handing out his good graces to the entirely helpless populace. Somehow succeeding, even though he really doesn't seem like a competent when it comes down to it.

 

Still think he's actually a (former) spirit.

[atlantico]

DAO is gibberish. DAI is equally nonsensical, but comparing one sort of gibberish to another and pretending like one is better is silly.

ftfy

[Saphiron123]

DAOs economy is gibberish. DAIs is equally nonsensical, but comparing one sort of gibberish to another and pretending like one is better is silly.

It's a series, and if the game had gold and silver and copper to begin with, it should have those things throughout the series. One kind of currency without any tiers is pretty silly though, it's something you'd see in legend of zelda, not a serious fantasy game.

Especially when suddenly an elfroot costs a year's wages for the average peasant on a developer whim. Lore should matter in a series, big and small.

[Magdalena11]

It would be fine if coppers weren't referenced in game as still being a valid form of currency, such as during the Wicked Grace scene. It was really idiotic not to have the old monetary system in place. I know of no current country that has only one denomination of currency. I'm pretty sure if we can figure out the variety of our own coinage, we can figure out a simplistic 3 tier currency of a computer game. 

 

Actually, regarding knowing of no currency that has only one denomination, what are you talking about?  I live in the US, and we express currency in terms of dollars.  The mint issues coins worth a dollar or fraction thereof, and also paper vouchers for multiples of a dollar.  Except for differences of name or multiplier, does any other country do it differently?  Unless they work on the barter system or something, of course.

 

If it makes it easier to understand, the US has been talking for years about doing away with the penny, $0.01.  It costs more to make them than they are actually worth, and except for broke people and collectors, no one really bothers with them anyway.  Even penny candy costs $0.05.  They already round for tax percentages anyway.  Why not?  Because there are superstitions about coins.

 

People get laughed at for pinching pennies or stopping in the street to pick one up.  There's a myth about picking up a penny if it's tails up.  If the dropped coin is a dime, it's supposed to be a wink from the other side.  A close friend once told me to always pick change up, because Someone might be watching and decide if you ignored it, you didn't need money.

 

BTW:  at about the time of William the Conqueror (CE1066), a pound of black pepper cost more than the average laborer made in a year. 20 sheep could be had for the same price, I think.

 

My point:  It's a game.  There are already so many rules to learn.  Those who are familiar with lore might miss the complexity of it, but the rule about the currency system having to be in triplicate wasn't necessary.  It didn't add anything to the game and it just made one more operation that the game would have to run.  It's a really big game, and I imagine to make it work as well as it does, they chose to eliminate calculations that didn't need to be there.

[In Exile]

It's a series, and if the game had gold and silver and copper to begin with, it should have those things throughout the series. One kind of currency without any tiers is pretty silly though, it's something you'd see in legend of zelda, not a serious fantasy game.

Especially when suddenly an elfroot costs a year's wages for the average peasant on a developer whim. Lore should matter in a series, big and small.

The problem isn't the currency tiers. That doesn't make as much sense as people think, but it isn't unreasonable.

What is complete nonsense is the price. A single elfroot cannot possibly be 3 coppers based on what else we hear in game (e.g. from Goldana about how much a wash costs).

The lore is complete nonsense to start with when it comes to prices.

[Saphiron123]

The problem isn't the currency tiers. That doesn't make as much sense as people think, but it isn't unreasonable.

What is complete nonsense is the price. A single elfroot cannot possibly be 3 coppers based on what else we hear in game (e.g. from Goldana about how much a wash costs).

The lore is complete nonsense to start with when it comes to prices.

But is it though? I mean regular people trade in cooper and occasionally a silver, i got the impression a soverignw as considered a fair amount.

The warden collects a lot of loot, a lot of cash for questing. I don't think he survives on a farmhand's budget. Hell, a desire demon when asked for riches gives you 20 soverigns, and that's supposed to be big money.

I checked though out of curiousity, an elfroot has a base value of 50 copper.

Still, a far cry from a gold piece worth 100 silver. That's 200 elfroot still, but though it could use some balancing, they threw it out the window and dumbed it down, like so much of the game. It's actually pretty annoying how little of a crap they gave about the past games.

[BabyPuncher]

This is a understandable complaint since it clashes with what players see in DA:O, but in general, there is a very simple reason why prices in RPGs should almost never be 'realistic.'

 

In RPGs, the player usually has the option to buy very expensive items in addition to more mundane ones. Items like property. But the critical difference is, unlike real life, where a person can and often does spend decades paying off an expensive purchase such as a house, the player needs to be able to afford these purchases within the timeframe of a playthrough, which is generally several hundred hours at the absolute most and usually far less. Obviously nobody is going to play a game for 30 years to buy the best mansion in the game.

 

Or to put it more simply, the player must be able to accumulate wealth very, very, very quickly. Decades in real life. Hours in a video game.

 

Thus, since the player is pretty much always able to get obscenely rich obscenely quickly, putting more mundane items such as food or clothing or potion ingredients at 'realistic' prices would make them so cheap they would effectively be free. And that would pretty much invalidate important gameplay systems. Which is stupid.

 

So yes. Pricing common plants at obscenely high prices for what they would 'realistically' require is good game design. Charging the player hundreds of credits to play an arcade game and win a stuffed animals is good game design. And making accusations that developers somehow made a clumsy mistake by having these 'nonsensical' or 'gibberish' prices is really kinda dumb.

[BabyPuncher]

Credits in Mass Effect and other Sci-Fi universes work well in the practical sense in that they're digital, thus don't have to be carried around, and have a simple value. How digital money is supposed to work without potentially infinite inflation, though, is beyond me...

 

Modern western currencies effectively only exist electronically. Far over 99% of the money that changes hands through transactions in the western world does so electronically. You don't imagine Wall Street and huge corporations do business by moving around briefcases and warehouses full of physical cash?

 

Maybe. My "theory" on how it even started and had its worth decided would be that maybe the races have their own hard currencies (let's say humans have the global equivalent of the euro, for simplicity's sake), and that the rest of the galaxy, outside of the home systems, takes some kind of averaging of worth between all the known spacefaring species and creates a currency for that. Although that would have occurred a long time ago. Anyway, yeah, it'd have to have some kind of material backing/support because digital money is nothing but electrons, and electrons are potentially infinite. How does one go about placing worth on electrons and other infinite things? So, I'll go with your guess. Unless a dev actually explains it, but I've my strong doubts they put any thought into currency.

 

No, it wouldn't.

 

Putting aside all the problems with saying data is 'made' of electrons, electronic money is no more prone to inflation because it's data that could be altered than paper money is prone to inflation because a government could print out a 100 bazillion trillion quadrillion bill with half a cent of ink and paper.

[Aren]

Didn't you get the memo? The old currency was too hard for new players to understand, so they limited it to "gold". Who cares about consistency after all, right?

yes we are morons we can only understand mono color,so gold it is,this is way DAI is PEGI 3-

[berelinde]

I headcanon that every herb in the game is actually a symbolic representation of a bale of the herb. Yes, it really does take a whole bale of herbs to make one Mighty Offense potion. There's extraction and a distillation involved. That's why you have to order potions at the alchemy bench. The flower picking you do replenishes the alchemist's stock.

 

Hey, it works for me.

[ExelArtz]

Because we have previous games in the series, and this is silly. In the developer won't honor the lore big and small (and granted, they peed all over far larger parts of the lore and mechanics whenever they pleased with inquisition, such as tactics, healing magic, the qunari etc) then who will?

 

It's a series. Some consistency would be nice. 

After what Bungie did in reach I knew other company's might ignored or forget some of there lore, I just didnt think it would happen fromgame to game while Bungie ignored the books. Your right big or small you shouldn't do it unless you have aoverwhelming fan base asking for it

[Rawgrim]

Didn't you get the memo? The old currency was too hard for new players to understand, so they limited it to "gold". Who cares about consistency after all, right?

 

This.

[Saphiron123]

I headcanon that every herb in the game is actually a symbolic representation of a bale of the herb. Yes, it really does take a whole bale of herbs to make one Mighty Offense potion. There's extraction and a distillation involved. That's why you have to order potions at the alchemy bench. The flower picking you do replenishes the alchemist's stock.

 

Hey, it works for me.

Except at the original price of 50 copper, 2 bales would be 1 silver, so you'd have 200 bales of elfroot in every purchased item. You would need a barn just to hold the bales of elfroot for that one potion.

[Saphiron123]

This is a understandable complaint since it clashes with what players see in DA:O, but in general, there is a very simple reason why prices in RPGs should almost never be 'realistic.'

 

In RPGs, the player usually has the option to buy very expensive items in addition to more mundane ones. Items like property. But the critical difference is, unlike real life, where a person can and often does spend decades paying off an expensive purchase such as a house, the player needs to be able to afford these purchases within the, at absolute most, several hundred hours a playthrough lasts. Obviously nobody is going to play a game for 30 years to buy the best mansion in game.

 

Or to put it in more simply, the player must be able to accumulate wealth very, very, very quickly. Decades in real life. Hours in a video game.

 

Thus, since the player is pretty much always able to get obscenely rich obscenely quickly, putting more mundane items such as food or clothing or potion ingredients at 'realistic' prices would make them so cheap they would effectively be free. And that would pretty much invalidate important gameplay systems. Which is stupid.

 

So yes. Pricing common plants at obscenely high prices for what they would 'realistically' require is good game design. Charging the player hundreds of credits to play an arcade game and win a stuffed animals is good game design. And making accusations that developers somehow made a clumsy mistake by having these 'nonsensical' or 'gibberish' prices is really kinda dumb.

True, but the issue here isn't that elfroot costs a lot. It's that it costs 200x more then it did in previous entries in the series, and not much time has passed. It's that EA basically calls gamers idiots, and a three tiered money system is rewritten to be gold only.

I don't care if they make an elfroot cost a literal arm and a leg in a new series, but this is the third entry.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Didn't you get the memo? The old currency was too hard for new players to understand, so they limited it to "gold". Who cares about consistency after all, right?

 

Consistency is for the weak

[correctamundo]

Of all the possible whines this one does scrape the bottom of the barrel.

[atlantico]

Of all the possible whines this one does scrape the bottom of the barrel.

 

Not really. I just demonstrates that DA:I is so screwed up that the list of valid complaints is amazingly long. And the apologists and fanbois who defend this turd have no life.

[BansheeOwnage]

Due to that, I feel they should have gone with the broad term "coins" instead of gold. However, everything is overpriced because of that even so, unless you use your imagination and pretend each item is priced with the appropriate currency tier. I've had it with having to use my imagination, though. I hope they drop the laziness in the future and make gameplay match the lore once again.

 

Not that I've ever been much of an optimist.

Not just that, but the "rewards" you get for some things are simply terrible. I mean, you can take a race-specific option to take all of Mistress Poulin's money from the quarry, and you only get ~300 coins. Wow. So awesome. Or, you could ask Corporal Vale to get the refugees to donate money etc. and you get less than 200 coins. I mean... really?

 

And why do you get so few coins from selling crafted items? You had to use a whole bunch of potentially rare and expensive materials to make them, but you don't even break even for selling them, which you'll almost always have to do? I mean, you actually get 2 coins. What the hell?

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

Not just that, but the "rewards" you get for some things are simply terrible. I mean, you can take a race-specific option to take all of Mistress Poulin's money from the quarry, and you only get ~300 coins. Wow. So awesome. Or, you could ask Corporal Vale to get the refugees to donate money etc. and you get less than 200 coins. I mean... really?

 

And why do you get so few coins from selling crafted items? You had to use a whole bunch of potentially rare and expensive materials to make them, but you don't even break even for selling them, which you'll almost always have to do? I mean, you actually get 2 coins. What the hell?

 

I learned from the broken economy never to take the "cash rewards" option in quests pretty early on. It's extremely frustrating, and without mods and spending hours on end farming, you'll always be struggling to afford decent things until the end of the game (it doesn't help that we can't fvcking see what schematics look like before buying them), by which point, buying crap is obsolete. I mean, yeah, once a player's discovered that crafting is better than found loot to a broken degree, money stops being such a huge issue (not that farming ever stops), but then comes the issue of being able to afford the schematics to craft in the first place.

 

Yeah, some dedicated defenders of the game will say, "DUH, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOOD STUFF LONG BEFORE THE END OF THE GAME!" but what actually makes that true? We see most things are heinously expensive in this game, yet it feels like they didn't even mean to make it so difficult to get expensive stuff in the first place, due to how much of an issue money farming is.

 

Of course, I'm sure if we questioned a dev about this, they'd use the "oh, we were 'experimenting'" blanket excuse. All I can hope for is that they bring it back to the old system in DAO and DA2 in the next installment.

[Ariella]

Not really. I just demonstrates that DA:I is so screwed up that the list of valid complaints is amazingly long. And the apologists and fanbois who defend this turd have no life.

I'm sorry, my dear, but all you have demonstrated are your persecution and martydom complexes by picking nits rather than addressing true issues. But, your fifteen minutes is over, my dear, so be a love and let those of us who can converse sensibly do so.

Ta!

[Ariella]

And on a not so funny topic, can we please remember they're working with an entirely new engine that was not designed with crpgs in mind. Trade offs had to be made.

Yuph, there are things that are actually problematic. The damned banter timer is one. Not sure if they fixed the door to the ballroom in Wicked Eyes. And I'm sure there are more serious game issues that can be addressed rather than the fact platinum has become mithril, gold has become platinum, silver has become gold, copper has become silver... oh wait, that's EQ 2.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'm sorry, my dear, but all you have demonstrated are your persecution and martydom complexes by picking nits rather than addressing true issues. But, your fifteen minutes is over, my dear, so be a love and let those of us who can converse sensibly do so.

Ta!

 

Big issues are just a lot of little issues put together. The economy is screwed, but it's all part of the giant snarl that's connected with a lot of other things. Quest rewards, loot drops, item value, crafting..

 

Honestly, it just feels like someone didn't want to give a lot of thought to it. A lot of the mess is just yanked wholeheartedly out of whatever random MMO someone was feeling at the time, and it wound up as awkward as it sounds.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

And on a not so funny topic, can we please remember they're working with an entirely new engine that was not designed with crpgs in mind. Trade offs had to be made.

Yuph, there are things that are actually problematic. The damned banter timer is one. Not sure if they fixed the door to the ballroom in Wicked Eyes. And I'm sure there are more serious game issues that can be addressed rather than the fact platinum has become mithril, gold has become platinum, silver has become gold, copper has become silver... oh wait, that's EQ 2.

 

You realize people can be unhappy about and acknowledge more than one problem at once, regardless of priority, right? What you're saying reminds me of those ignorant people who claim others don't have the right to be sad about small things because there are starving children in Africa.

 

Not once in the thread did I see anyone say, "Bioware, this is the biggest problem in the whole game! Fix this before anything else!" So, I have no idea why you're acting as if people said that. Besides, no one's expecting them to remake this whole game, but rather we'd prefer all the issues to be acknowledged and that effort will be put into avoiding having these issues in the next installment.

 

The fiddling with a new engine excuse only goes so far. In more competent hands, I'd wager the game could have turned out so much better--not perfect, but better. A moot argument, though, I digress. Prototypes should not be released as full, finished products. You'd think that'd have been learned from DA2 which I personally enjoyed, but it was still far from perfect. Perfection being impossible to achieve doesn't ever excuse a lack of earnest effort.