514 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Define properly.

They got the game they bought. The 360 version is that game. It got fewer patches and less DLC, and also had terrible graphics.

The XBONE version is different. It gets more support, and has better graphics.

The PC version is different again. It gets support, allows a wider variety of input devices, the graphics are scalable to match the hardware, and is somewhat moddable.

Why do you think the different versions should all get the same level of post-release support?

Defined:  Patches and DLC

 

As I have said before, DLC has become so pervasive and commonplace, that, for better or for worse, a game is not considered "complete" until all DLC is released.  See the numerous "Ultimate Edition" games out there once the DLC cycle is complete.

 

Oldgen games are essentially being left on the side of the road while the "correct" platforms get additional patches and DLC.

 

Why should all the different versions get the same level of postrelease support?  Because all the games cost the same, and there was zero indication that one platform would be favored over another (aside from that timed exclusive for JoH, which I still think was terrible, but beside the point for this discussion)

 

Those who bought the game at full price for the 360 and the PS3 had every expectation of being given the same degree of service as any other platform.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Okay I'll bite despite what I had said previously I will respond fully knowing I will most likely be banned or issued a warning at the very least

You can have a differing opinion and disagree all you want (no one is contending that - I have my own special snowflake opinions too), however when you go about basically writing others off as "stupid" or "beneath you" for not getting with the times (which in my eyes is what you did) is what I have problems with. Think DAI shouldn't have been ported to last gen consoles? Think it was a waste of development time and resources? That's an opinion and it's okay. DAI was released on older consoles, probably just as a cash grab on EA/Bioware's part, but it was released none-the-less. Playstation 3 and XBOX 360s are old, fact no denying that. However, when the company decided to release the game on said consoles with no forewarning of midway abandonment, it was deceptive and screwed us on the last gen over (which is where the infamous apathetic "lets bash the last gen" attitude comes into play). I resent the idea and the fact that you as well as Bioware themselves seem to think that the simple solution is/was to have just "get/gotten a next-gen console" and to shut up & forget about it. Yes maybe the game shouldn't have been released on older consoles but it was and Bioware abandoned us - how is that our fault? They sold us half of a product and announced the discontinuing support of said product as well as refusing to acknowledge or own up to their shadiness and responsibilities to their customers ("oh well we already have their money hyuck hyuck!")

The debating, which again I don't believe you were doing, in my eyes you were actively flinging about the fact that you made a lot of money and had the wonderful foresight to upgrade and can't understand why the silly willy last-gen gamers couldn't do the same. Again, money doesn't grow on trees - fact (one that empathetic humans with feelings would have had the foresight and tact to consider), a common one however in my eyes everything you stated came off as mocking, haughty, and arrogant akin to a kindergartener bragging about having a Smartphone on the first day of school.

No your comments did not strike me as "snarky" and "funny" or at all pertinent to the topic, to me they were nothing short of rude write-offs; negating everyone else's opinions as invalid because they are last-gen and just "should have known better" while holding your own opinions as fact. That is why I do not respect your opinion, or the rude & ignorant presumptions & comments that you made. I said and worded some things "not so nicely", however I am not inclined to be nice to people that I do not believe are nice themselves. Trolls can be amusing and even downright funny, which is why I used the term sociopath; when individuals get off from instigating and checking the heated replies and arguments in response to their posts that aggrandize their own wealth and accoutrements while down-talking and mocking those that they consider inept or beneath them, which again In my eyes is exactly what you did. So sorry if i'm not sobbing at your crocodile teary soapbox, I am just extremely over the elitist/upper echelon "let's bash the last-gen crowd" and like mentality that so many on here possess - but yea I know that you don't care about the last-gen gamer's feelings just like I don't care that your feelings were hurt by my ignorant comments in rebuttal to your ignorant comments, so we'll just agree to disagree. So yea, ban/warn away whatever happens, happens.

This. The last gen bashing seems more like poor people bashing and rich people gloating how they are better than poor people

[Paul E Dangerously]

Patches they got. Nor am I mad at anyone. But...really? You REALLY don't know how I'm related to this? In a game where the devs made the choice to develop on 5 platforms for a bunch of ungrateful people, dragging an anchor around the development process for the version I ended up with, for your benefit? To my detriment? So much so that to make the game BETTER, they dropped your platform? Yeah, I'm related to this.

 

 

Fully supported. Properly supported. Meaning what? More patches forever? Perfect bug-free gaming? Access to all DLCs? Three completely unrealistic concepts? No. They paid for what they got, just like everyone else.

 

I love this mentality. Love, love, love, love, love it to pieces. The myth of the "held back game". The Holy Grail of PC Gamers since the Xbox 360/PS3 generation came in, that somehow without them everything would be bigger/faster/more intense. It sure as hell wasn't like that before. Yet I get it. You wanted something more than what you got. You believe that because your system is bigger, better, and newer than the old-genners that you got screwed over with things that didn't make it into the final release.

 

You know what? That's fine. It's obnoxious as all hell, but it's fine.

 

But at the same time, you cannot releastically expect people to be pleased that Bioware "graced" them with the game merely because they got it. It's broken. It's hideous. Basic functions don't work. It launched with crippling bugs and bizarre errors to the point I'm not even sure they playtested the damn thing before release. I had more problems with DAI than I did a Bethesda product, and that's scary in itself. Much of that is still there. A lot of the patches have been DLC-related and MP-related, leaving the base game with a bit of spackle thrown over the giant holes in the wall.

 

They came out and said before release that it would be pretty much "just the next-gen version but simplified". Less NPCs? Fine. Draw distance cut down? Fine. But there's a good reason they didn't show it at all, because they were pretty clearly lying out their teeth the entire time. You can be assured of that because the old-genners haven't gotten more than a handful of posts since, one of which was explaining creative decisions, and the other was basically "Shut up, you're making too much noise."

 

I just don't get the constant backlash to the backlash, because it's hypocritical at best. PC gamers will friggin' break out the pitchforks and torches for the tiniest issue, and I know that because I've been one longer than I want to admit. If the tiniest thing is wrong, it's time to burn it down and demand a refund. Steam Refund is a thing almost solely because of this.

 

It's also Bioware's fault in general, because they made the active decision to write DAI with as many cliffhangers and plot threads as possible. Huge chunks of it just sit there unresolved, and you can't say the same for Origins or even DA2. Awakening was a nice continuation, but it wasn't vital. The other DLCs are pretty much take it or leave it. Legacy is good stuff, but I don't feel that DA2's horribly worse off without it. But the way DAI ends, Bioware pretty much stuck a "STAY CONTINUED FOR DLC" sign at the end of it.

 

That's why a lot of people are up in arms about this.

[Avejajed]

Hmmm.

[Panda]

Oh my god! If you can afford to game at all you ARE NOT POOR.

 

You guys have some really screwed up definitions of poor. Poor is when you're struggling to put food on the table and pay for your gas to and from work with spare change. Poor is when you work six jobs just to pay your rent.  Poor doesn't include video games and internet. Those are LUXURIES. Those are not necessities. Poor is wondering how you're going to eat today not wondering why Bioware's trying to screw you out of your patch updates.

 

Stop trying to fling mud at me like I'm one of the 1% looking down at the poor dirty masses. Give me a break. I already said not everyone can just afford to drop $500 and nobody's asking you to- but it's something you're going to have to save up for anyway if you want to continue playing video games in general.

 

That is not definition of poor either. Absolute poverty isn't something you find in most countries anymore, poverty is thus more subjective and it's poverty compared to the living conditions of the country person is living in.

[Avejajed]

Okay, I just got off the phone with my friend who works at Gamestop- to try and help you guys.

 

First, you can reserve a new console at Gamestop, and pay for it a little at a time. I didn't realize this was possible, but you simply drop $20 on it whenever you can. You can also trade in your current console- and many times you can get special deals to get upwards of $150 in credit to get your new console. (I realize this price isn't always so high, the current going is something like $50 for a 360, but you have to get it at the right time.)

 

This, plus the fact that the xbox one consoles can now be purchased without kinect, which makes them even cheaper. You can even purchase pre-owned next gen consoles at a further discounted price. A pre-owned xbox one with 3 months gold free is only $334 for the 500 GB. That is a SIGNIFICANT drop from the $500 I paid.

 

http://www.gamestop....,13ffff2412-1e0

 

http://www.gamestop....,13ffff2412-1dc

 

http://www.gamestop.com/trade

 

http://www.gamestop.com/deals

[Sylvius the Mad]

Defined: Patches and DLC

As I have said before, DLC has become so pervasive and commonplace, that, for better or for worse, a game is not considered "complete" until all DLC is released. See the numerous "Ultimate Edition" games out there once the DLC cycle is complete.

Would you still be upset about this if they just stopped making DLC for all platforms?

No? I'm going to assume no.

Therefore, there's a possible circumstance under which you don't get any more DLC, but you're not annoyed.

So why are you annoyed now, when the material effect on you is identical? How are you harmed by something that has no effect?

[Dabrikishaw]

Whoa guys c'mon. I know some current gen owners have been ***** to last gen owners about this news but some of the insults being launched at current gen owners are uncalled for.

[Morroian]

Referring to a person as 'it' because they disagree with you and are standing their ground in an argument in which they happen to be on the opposing side to you? Not okay.

 

The issue is she's doing a bit more than just disagreeing.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The issue is she's doing a bit more than just disagreeing.

Don't forget in the descent review thread, she went on rants saying people have no right to complain about not liking the dlc. Seems she's a white knight who thinks Bioware can do know wrong. They could keep kick her in the face and she'd thank them for it

[Avejajed]

Alright, you guys win.

[Iakus]

Would you still be upset about this if they just stopped making DLC for all platforms?

No? I'm going to assume no.
 

If any given game simply didn't have DLC?  No I wouldn't be upset.  THough I'd note that nowadays that's unusual.

 

 

 

Therefore, there's a possible circumstance under which you don't get any more DLC, but you're not annoyed.

So why are you annoyed now, when the material effect on you is identical? How are you harmed by something that has no effect?

What I'm "annoyed" at is some players get DLC now and others don't.  This doesn't affect just me, this affects a lot of other people who assumed that buying a game at full price meant that the game would be fully supported.  And instead got cut loose with barely any explanation (no official explanation at all, as far as I can tell)

 

Heck I'm not even one of those who got shafted by this, I play on a PC!  

[Sylvius the Mad]

What I'm "annoyed" at is some players get DLC now and others don't.  This doesn't affect just me, this affects a lot of other people who assumed that buying a game at full price meant that the game would be fully supported.  And instead got cut loose with barely any explanation (no official explanation at all, as far as I can tell)

I'm trying to point out that "fully supported" can include no DLC for games that don't have DLC, or limited DLC for games that don't do well (like DA2).  And given that, what people are really upset about is that some people get things that they don't.  And that never makes sense.

 

Let's say I offer you a job, and you negotiate a salary of X.  We're both happy with that, are I hire you.  Then, it turns out I need another person like you.  That person negotiates a salary of X+Y.  You're still earning X.  You were happy with X before.  Nothing about your situation has changed.  there's no reason for you to be annoyed.

 

Would you be?  Based on your position here, it seems the answer would be yes, but that would be crazy.

 

I remember DAO players being annoyed when they got less DLC than they ere promised, but they had actually been promised that DLC.  DAO was promoted with the promise of two years of DLC, but that got dropped when EA told them to make DA2 right away.  DAO players bought the game expecting one thing - and expecting it because they were told it would be there - and then they didn't get it.

 

Those people had cause to be annoyed, but I don't understand why anyone is now.  No one promised any specific amount of DLC.  No one promised equality.  There's no way anyone was any more deprived of the chance to make an informed platform decision than anyone else.

 

I don't get the outrage.

[Iakus]

I'm trying to point out that "fully supported" can include no DLC for games that don't have DLC, or limited DLC for games that don't do well (like DA2).  And given that, what people are really upset about is that some people get things that they don't.  And that never makes sense.

 

 

ANd how about DLC for me but not for thee? (or vice versa?)

 

 

 

Let's say I offer you a job, and you negotiate a salary of X.  We're both happy with that, are I hire you.  Then, it turns out I need another person like you.  That person negotiates a salary of X+Y.  You're still earning X.  You were happy with X before.  Nothing about your situation has changed.  there's no reason for you to be annoyed.

 

Except that's not the case here.  It's two people buying a product.  The same product, paying the same price, with the same expectation of support.  Except, you know, it turns out it isn't.

 

 

 

 
I remember DAO players being annoyed when they got less DLC than they ere promised, but they had actually been promised that DLC.  DAO was promoted with the promise of two years of DLC, but that got dropped when EA told them to make DA2 right away.  DAO players bought the game expecting one thing - and expecting it because they were told it would be there - and then they didn't get it.
 

That was before my time, but if Bioware did make that promise, and broke it, that was a pretty terrible thing too.

 

 

 

Those people had cause to be annoyed, but I don't understand why anyone is now.  No one promised any specific amount of DLC.  No one promised equality.  There's no way anyone was any more deprived of the chance to make an informed platform decision than anyone else.
I don't get the outrage.

You shouldn't have to promise equality.  It should be expected.  If Bioware didn't intend to fully support a platform, they should have said so from the get-go.

 

That's how someone makes an informed decision.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's how someone makes an informed decision.

Everyone had the same lack of information.

 

That all of them guessed, and some of them were wrong, doesn't make that guess somehow legitimate.

[Spankatola]

Cry me a river. You aren't victim here, you knew before release that the game was going to be cross-gen game developed also for PS3 and XBOX360. None has mislead you about it. You are just being elitist as heck.

 

What I'm trying to get across to you is that neither of us is a victim. 

[Spankatola]

I love this mentality. Love, love, love, love, love it to pieces. *snip*

 

Dude, this is a lot of baggage that I'm not willing to carry. I suggest you let it go, too.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Referring to a person as 'it' because they disagree with you and are standing their ground in an argument in which they happen to be on the opposing side to you? Not okay.

 

Are we entirely sure it is an actual person...? I have my doubts.

 

This. The last gen bashing seems more like poor people bashing and rich people gloating how they are better than poor people

 

That's exactly what it is. "I could afford to throw down $1000 for two Xbones and two copies of the game, and if YOU can't, then you don't deserve to breathe my air. Now lick my boot, peon."

 

Whoa guys c'mon. I know some current gen owners have been dicks to last gen owners about this news but some of the insults being launched at current gen owners are uncalled for.

 

Nah. It's called for. 

[Spankatola]

Let it go, let it go, get right the **** up out of this thread. Let it go, let it goooooo, your smug superiority makes me literally hate you. Let it go, let it goooooooooooooo I hope that someday you understand what the word empathy is, but I'm sure not counting on it.

 

What do you think. I give Elsa a run for her money?

 

I can give you sympathy, at least, for failing to understand the difference between disagreement and lack of empathy.

 

For your next trick, please write a song about a fantastical land where all games are supported for eternity and never have bugs.

[AresKeith]

Don't forget in the descent review thread, she went on rants saying people have no right to complain about not liking the dlc. Seems she's a white knight who thinks Bioware can do know wrong. They could keep kick her in the face and she'd thank them for it

 

Except she didn't

[andy6915]

Oh my god! If you can afford to game at all you ARE NOT POOR.

 

Aww, I think your brain just leaked out of your ears. You might want to have that looked at.

 

I'm not poor? The place I live I am only allowed to rent because I was pathetic enough that the property manager felt sympathy for me and let me get a lower rent than usual, and it's a little 1 bedroom apartment. Before that I lived in a quasi-hotel room that only had a bathroom attached to a bedroom, no kitchen or anything (I had less living space than most people's garage's have). I need foodstampts to survive, I would literally starve without it. I only got my first hdtv ever this year, and it took tax returns to do it (and even then it was just a 400 dollar plasma that only goes to 720p native). I need to get a Wii U in 4 months for Xenoblade X, and I've been wanting to save for months but haven't been able to because money has been so tight. I haven't even gotten anywhere on the saving, I'm no closer to affording a Wii U now than I was several months ago. My 360 died 3 months back (a 2006 model that somehow survived the red ring of death for 9 years), so I've been stuck with only my PS3 and my Wii, both of which weren't my main console and I have less games for them than my 360. I can't afford to get a new 360 or repair it, so I won't be able to play any of my 360 games again until at least after I get a Wii U in the next age. And I want a PS4 someday, but that this rate I'll only be able to afford that a year into the PS5's release. My 360 I only got because my sister's husband didn't want his anymore and sold it to me for a mere 100 bucks. My PS3 (the first slim model) was a Christmas present from my mother, and I don't even know how she afforded it... Despite me already being an adult by then which means it should be my responsibility to use my own financial means to get stuff, yet she still shelled out for the best Christmas present ever simply because she knew I was stressed out about not being able to get one on my own. I can't even afford a new Nintendo DS Lite after my last one broke.

 

So, here I am as a gamer. Broke as a Chantry Mouse. Don't talk about what you don't understand. You basically just said that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have a hobby, and if you have one then you're not poor. Apparently you think poor people live in homes with grass roofs and dirt floors and their only entertaining is mindless tv or book reading.

[AresKeith]

This thread smh

[Father_Jerusalem]

I can give you sympathy, at least, for failing to understand the difference between disagreement and lack of empathy.

 

For your next trick, please write a song about a fantastical land where all games are supported for eternity and never have bugs.

 

I can write a song about support for one set of consoles not being dropped in the middle of a game's lifecycle, sure. It's a little number I like to call "literally every other time in history, because most companies realize that when they offer a game for a console, that it would be a dick move and ****** off the customers if they just decided to say 'lololololol **** you' eight months in, maybe someday Bioware will hire people who know what ethics are."

[Spankatola]

I can write a song about support for one set of consoles not being dropped in the middle of a game's lifecycle, sure. It's a little number I like to call "literally every other time in history, because most companies realize that when they offer a game for a console, that it would be a dick move and ****** off the customers if they just decided to say 'lololololol **** you' eight months in, maybe someday Bioware will hire people who know what ethics are."

 

So...no, then.