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[Alpha452]

I would rather have had Bioware/EA not release Dragon Age Inquisition for Xbox 360 at all and just do next gen consoles than release it and then after one story DLC (Jaws of Hakkon) drop further DLC support for XBox 360. Now not only would I have to spend more money for a new console, assuming I had the resources to do that in the first place, but I'd have to spend ANOTHER 60 dollars for a XBox One version of DAI but probably have to end up spending money to repurchase the DLC I already had. At this point I'm about ready to wash my hands of Bioware and forget about purchasing any further Bioware games at all. I do feel like Bioware/EA took advantage of us old generation console users so we'd spend the money to buy Inquisition and then when we were no longer of further use tossed us aside like yesterday's garbage. Thanks alot Bioware. I am beyond livid that now my XBox 360 is no better than a paperweight at this point and I wasted 60 dollars to get Inquisition in the first place. Seems to me like Bioware was better off before EA bought them and has only gone downhill since. EA is kind of like the Archdemon..destroying everything it touches and spreading like the Blight. 

[Iakus]

Then that's what peoole should be complaining about - tht at the game isn't fixed.

But the unequal treatment can't be relevant.

GIven those on newgen consoles have a better shot at getting bugs fixed, and oldgen players have none?

 

In addition to having access to fewer dlcs?

[Sylvius the Mad]

GIven those on newgen consoles have a better shot at getting bugs fixed, and oldgen players have none?

 

In addition to having access to fewer dlcs?

You keep using words like "better" and "fewer"

 

They don't matter.  The relative positions don't matter.

 

If some platform didn't get enough patches, or enough DLC (and the definition of enough cannot make reference to how much some other platform got), then there's grounds for complaint.

 

And only then.

[Iakus]

You keep using words like "better" and "fewer"

 

They don't matter.  The relative positions don't matter.

 

If some platform didn't get enough patches, or enough DLC (and the definition of enough cannot make reference to how much some other platform got), then there's grounds for complaint.

 

And only then.

Do you seriously think the PS3 and 360 got enough patches?

 

And as far as I'm concerned, a platform didn't gt enough DLC if it lacks access to content that others do.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Do you seriously think the PS3 and 360 got enough patches?

I don't have an opinion on that.  I don't see how we could establish a reasonable standard of "enough"

And as far as I'm concerned, a platform didn't gt enough DLC if it lacks access to content that others do.

So, you're saying that the service being offered to the PS3 and 360 is somehow made worse by the availability of better service to the other platforms.  That's clearly your position.

 

It's already acceptable that we expect people to have a relevant platform in order to play a game.  It's already acceptable that some people won't necessarily have that platform (otherwise you'd object to platform-exclusive games unless the platform came free with it or something).  But you're drawing a line that singles out DLC and patches specifically, but not whole games.

 

I just don't think I'm going to understand.  You haven't explained what's actually wrong with what's happening beyond saying it's unequal.  Is all inequality bad?  Are you just the world's biggest egalitarian?

[Eelectrica]

Do you seriously think the PS3 and 360 got enough patches?

 

And as far as I'm concerned, a platform didn't gt enough DLC if it lacks access to content that others do.

One would have to say no, they didn't.

Take the latest patch which adds a new MP character. MP players are already missing out.

I'm still holding out hope the focus glitch will get fixed - probably won't but if by some miracle it does, that's another important fix they'll miss out on.

[Iakus]

 

So, you're saying that the service being offered to the PS3 and 360 is somehow made worse by the availability of better service to the other platforms.  That's clearly your position.

 

It's already acceptable that we expect people to have a relevant platform in order to play a game.  It's already acceptable that some people won't necessarily have that platform (otherwise you'd object to platform-exclusive games unless the platform came free with it or something).  But you're drawing a line that singles out DLC and patches specifically, but not whole games.

 

I just don't think I'm going to understand.  You haven't explained what's actually wrong with what's happening beyond saying it's unequal.  Is all inequality bad?  Are you just the world's biggest egalitarian?

When the service is deliberately made better by virtue of having the "correct" platform, yes.

 

The relevant platform, as explained prerelease was the XBONE, the PC, XBox 360, PS3, and PS4.  EIght months in, suddenly the 360 and PS3 were no longer the "relevant" platforms to have.

 

I am not objecting to platform exclusive games.  I'm talking about offering it on a given platform, then prematurely cutting off support for it while continuing to add support and content for other platforms.  And especially without official explanation for it.

 

Reason being, people paid full price for this game expecting full service.

[Dio Demon]

I don't have an opinion on that.  I don't see how we could establish a reasonable standard of "enough"

 

 

So, you're saying that the service being offered to the PS3 and 360 is somehow made worse by the availability of better service to the other platforms.  That's clearly your position.

 

It's already acceptable that we expect people to have a relevant platform in order to play a game.  It's already acceptable that some people won't necessarily have that platform (otherwise you'd object to platform-exclusive games unless the platform came free with it or something).  But you're drawing a line that singles out DLC and patches specifically, but not whole games.

 

I just don't think I'm going to understand.  You haven't explained what's actually wrong with what's happening beyond saying it's unequal.  Is all inequality bad?  Are you just the world's biggest egalitarian?

This is why I just jump into threads when Sylvius posts. Top quality logical arguments.

 

Reason being, people paid full price for this game expecting full service.

You got the game didn't you? Contract fulfilled. The end.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I am not objecting to platform exclusive games. I'm talking about offering it on a given platform, then prematurely cutting off support for it while continuing to add support and content for other platforms. And especially without official explanation for it.

Reason being, people paid full price for this game expecting full service.

They got the game they paid for. Full stop. BioWare is under no obligation to release patches or DLC at all.

You still haven't explained what premature means beyond just before the others. And that can't matter, because what they get doesn't affect the owners of the older consoles.

No is taking anything away from the older consoles.

[Eelectrica]

This is why I just jump into threads when Sylvius posts. Top quality logical arguments.

 

You got the game didn't you? Contract fulfilled. The end.

You can go on with your contractual BS all you want. But it is BS and I know it's BS because I know how I'd react if future DLC wasn't available on my platform.

 

If a company can't support a product until it's EOL then don't release on that platform, or provide an upgrade path. Simple.

[Dio Demon]

You can go on with your contractual BS all you want. But it is BS and I know it's BS because I know how I'd react if future DLC wasn't available on my platform.

 

If a company can't support a product until it's EOL then don't release on that platform, or provide an upgrade path. Simple.

I'd be disappointed and move on. I have enough maturity to know when something is out of my hands.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If a company can't support a product until it's EOL then don't release on that platform, or provide an upgrade path. Simple.

Not that simple.

First, you ignore the possibility that a company might not know initially about the issue that would cause th to abandon the platform.

And second, the two possible solutions that would allow your rules to be followed - either don't release on the old platforms, or declare EOL earlier for the newer platforms - result in people getting less content.

Both solutions would make things demonstrably worse.

I don't think you've thought this through. Or worse, that any level of unequal treatment is so abhorrent to you that there's no cost too high on order to rectify it.

[Iakus]

They got the game they paid for. Full stop. BioWare is under no obligation to release patches or DLC at all.
 

A game developer's motto probably shouldn't be "Caveat Emptor"

 

 

 

You still haven't explained what premature means beyond just before the others. And that can't matter, because what they get doesn't affect the owners of the older consoles.

No is taking anything away from the older consoles.

They're taking away support.

 

Unless you can honestly tell me they intended to only support the game for eight months from the start and provide only a a single story DLC.

[Iakus]

Not that simple.

First, you ignore the possibility that a company might not know initially about the issue that would cause th to abandon the platform.

And second, the two possible solutions that would allow your rules to be followed - either don't release on the old platforms, or declare EOL earlier for the newer platforms - result in people getting less content.

Both solutions would make things demonstrably worse.

I don't think you've thought this through. Or worse, that any level of unequal treatment is so abhorrent to you that there's no cost too high on order to rectify it.

1) If there is a technocal issue preventing further support, then they should say so

 

2a) Don't release on old platforms is a valid path to take.  But half-a$$ing a platform is not.

 

2b) If they declaring an earlier EOLl for older platforms, then yes buyers would at least have gone in forwarned.

[Avejajed]

1) If there is a technocal issue preventing further support, then they should say so

 

 

What other kind of issue could it be? They aren't doing it just to be meanie heads.

[Iakus]

What other kind of issue could it be? They aren't doing it just to be meanie heads.

 

Then as I said, they should say so.  And being contrite about it would help too.  That's good customer service.

 

AS it is, being silent just says "Nope, we're not doing it.  Sucks to be you, I guess"

[Dabrikishaw]

They certainly could have done better to announce it by not sticking a tiny sentence at the end of a post detailing a completely different feature.

[Sylvius the Mad]

A game developer's motto probably shouldn't be "Caveat Emptor"

They're taking away support.

Unless you can honestly tell me they intended to only support the game for eight months from the start and provide only a a single story DLC.

I don't care what their original intent was. Their intent doesn't matter.

[Iakus]

I don't care what their original intent was. Their intent doesn't matter.

Intent matters a LOT

[Avejajed]

Then as I said, they should say so.  And being contrite about it would help too.  That's good customer service.

 

AS it is, being silent just says "Nope, we're not doing it.  Sucks to be you, I guess"

 

I saw Mike Laidlaw falling all over himself on twitter apologizing for it. I'm not sure what you guys want exactly. How much more official do you want to get?

[Dabrikishaw]

Honestly, if Bioware has the time to make a topic detailing a new save importing feature, then they have the time to make a topic explaining why they aren't making anymore DLC for last gen. It doesn't have to be an apology, but it's not some impossible and unreasonable thing to do.

[Avejajed]

Honestly, if Bioware has the time to make a topic detailing a new save importing feature, then they have the time to make a topic explaining why they aren't making anymore DLC for last gen. It doesn't have to be an apology, but it's not some impossible and unreasonable thing to do.

 

I don't know if you've noticed but they don't bother coming here anymore at all.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Intent matters a LOT

Intent makes no material difference. It can't matter.

If someone excludes you by design or through neglect, you were still excluded. You faced exactly the same treatment and suffered exactly the same harm.

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't mean anyone like Mike or David, they wouldn't be necessary for something as simple as making a topic. Any Bioware Employee would do. 

[AllThatJazz]

I don't mean anyone like Mike or David, they wouldn't be necessary for something like this. Any Bioware Employee would do. 

Thing is though, 'any Bioware employee' isn't necessarily fully aware of the reasons. It would have to be someone in the know, they would have to have the permission of the relevant EA department (eg accounting if old gen was dropped for financial reasons) and they'd also have to be willing to basically be the person on the frontline for the forum's wrath (of which I believe there would have been less but still plenty even if they had apologised straight away).

 

We know that most devs don't come here anymore precisely because many fans here have shown an inability to deal with disappointment/anger in a calm and respectful way. DA2 and the ME3 ending have resulted in (that I've seen) calls for people to be fired, calls for Bioware to be sued and to go out of business, calls even for devs to be physically harmed (I saw comparisons between Bioware and cancer, Bioware and rape, and someone saying they were going to burn down Mac Walters' house, for example). They aren't paid to spend time on the forums, the devs have typically done this on their own time, so it's hardly a surprise when no-one wants to stick their neck out and make themselves a target for the collective rage of the BSN plus trolls who like to stir things up. The few who have spent a fair bit of time here have either left DA (David Gaider) or have basically gone because they got fed up of being insulted in their time off ... and these aren't the people who make the big decisions about such things either, but they are the people we rage at.