514 réponses à ce sujet

[GithCheater]

You assume Bioware was aware this situation would come about before the initial release of the game. There is no evidence that this is true.

 

However, Bioware knew in May (or earlier) that new story DLC would be not be available for last-gen consoles given that the last gen to new gen cross buy program was announced on May 28th.  If Bioware announced the end of last gen support then, it would have spared last-gen from looking forward to new "story" DLC ... Of course an earlier announcement would not have been good for the sales figures for the three last-gen DLCs ...

 

http://www.gamespot....i/1100-6427666/

[Narcosynthesis]

However, Bioware knew in May (or earlier) that new story DLC would be not be available for last-gen consoles given that the last gen to new gen cross buy program was announced on May 28th.  If Bioware announced the end of last gen support then, it would have spared last-gen from looking forward to new "story" DLC ... Of course an earlier announcement would not have been good for the sales figures for the three last-gen DLCs ...

 

http://www.gamespot....i/1100-6427666/

 

While this is speculative (since the cross buy program is not necessarily proof for a last gen drop) , I'd agree that it is relatively likely that the decision for the drop may have been made around that point when it became obvious that the sales numbers no longer justified the additional costs for doing 5-platform-releases.

 

However, even if that were the case: What is the argument here? Would an announcement a few months earlier have changed any of the core points brought forward in this debate? No. People would still claim that it is "unethical" to drop support in the middle of a DLC cycle or that a game is "not complete" without all DLC. Or that the announcement was poorly phrased. Or that Bioware "knew all along". Or whatever other arguments have been brought forward here. The point that they'd have to buy DAI a second time for a newer console wouldn't have been touched either. In other words: We would have had the exact same debate with people being upset for the exact same reasons. Just because they would have been "spared looking forward to new "story" DLC" a little earlier, as you put it, people wouldn't be any less upset.

 

And that thing about sales figures: I find it somewhat surprising that people tend to use that as an argument against a company. Of course neither Bioware nor EA is in this business just out of fun. Of course they need to look at the sales numbers, after all - unlike us - they make a living out of that. So even if(!) the whole dropping business was indeed decided on as early with the release of JoH: What is the argument? That they delayed a discussion that wasn't relevant at that point? A discussion that would remain the same no matter when the announcement was made? Because they certainly didn't lie to any of us there and as far as Jaws of Hakkon is concerned there wasn't even the "I have to buy it again"-dilemma because of the cross buy program.

[pdusen]

They did say the Crestwood attack would be in the game 2 days before it was released too. I am sure they were aware of the fact that it wasn't.

I would love to see a source for this.

[Avejajed]

I would love to see a source for this.

 

I as well, because I recall the Crestwood scenes being shown long before release. We all knew that it was not footage that was game ready and we all know that meant it wasn't promised to be in the game. That version could easily change.

[Rawgrim]

I would love to see a source for this.

 

And I would love to show it to you. But I won't be diging around to find a thread that is almost a year old.

 

It was in one of the threads about gameplay videos for DA:I. They spoke about the Crestwood stuff in it, and the fact that you could upgrade the Keeps you capture in various areas, and make them serve some function of your choice.

 

Myself and a few others were asking how this and that worked in the final game. the Keeps etc. And a dev was answering and explaining how it would work. That was only a few days before release.

 

You can chose to believe me or not. It is all up to you.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I wonder when bioware fans will stop thinking their entitled to all dlc and content ever released. Probs never >.>'''

[pdusen]

And I would love to show it to you. But I won't be diging around to find a thread that is almost a year old.

 

It was in one of the threads about gameplay videos for DA:I. They spoke about the Crestwood stuff in it, and the fact that you could upgrade the Keeps you capture in various areas, and make them serve some function of your choice.

 

Myself and a few others were asking how this and that worked in the final game. the Keeps etc. And a dev was answering and explaining how it would work. That was only a few days before release.

 

You can chose to believe me or not. It is all up to you.

 

I won't, because the burden of proof is on you, and I was here before release and I'm pretty sure I'd remember a thing like that. But thanks for playing.

[Zanallen]

And I would love to show it to you. But I won't be diging around to find a thread that is almost a year old.

 

It was in one of the threads about gameplay videos for DA:I. They spoke about the Crestwood stuff in it, and the fact that you could upgrade the Keeps you capture in various areas, and make them serve some function of your choice.

 

Myself and a few others were asking how this and that worked in the final game. the Keeps etc. And a dev was answering and explaining how it would work. That was only a few days before release.

 

You can chose to believe me or not. It is all up to you.

 

Even if you are correct in this statement (Personally, I don't care enough to bother researching it), that has no bearing on the ethical nature of the topic at hand. Saying "I am not going to provide any links, but Bioware totally lied about this one thing this one time" means jack and squat to whether or not dropping last gen support is ethical.

[Voodoo Dancer]

the way some people throw out the word *entitled* is becoming a right pain in the arse  ,  if a person has paid the full price of the game then of course they are entitled to a working copy of the bloody thing.  and if they should get a ps4 at a later date they should be able to download a copy of a game they already paid for , as far as i remember there was no price difference between the ps3 and the ps4 versions .

[Morroian]

I won't, because the burden of proof is on you, and I was here before release and I'm pretty sure I'd remember a thing like that. But thanks for playing.

 

Well I remember seeing it as well.

[pdusen]

Well I remember seeing it as well.

 

That's good. Perhaps you can provide a source for it. As I said, I'd love to see one.

[GithCheater]

Rawgrim remembered this also in December, but I cannot find evidence of the October topic.

 

http://forum.bioware...n-of-dai/page-2

[GithCheater]

Even if you are correct in this statement (Personally, I don't care enough to bother researching it), that has no bearing on the ethical nature of the topic at hand. Saying "I am not going to provide any links, but Bioware totally lied about this one thing this one time" means jack and squat to whether or not dropping last gen support is ethical.

Dropping last gen support in and of itself is not unethical.  However, Bioware purposely handled the communication badly and that poor customer service is unethical:

 

Portrayed as "Good news" for last-gen customer

 

Not explicitly saying old-gen support was dropped (patches AND new dlc)

 

No official explanation as to why.

 

Not mentioning the future drop of old gen when Jaws of Haakon was released on old gen May 26th (Cross-buy was announced May 28th)

 

Requiring old-gen customers to buy DAI a 2nd time to play future DLC (double profit$$)

[thesuperdarkone2]

Dropping last gen support in and of itself is not unethical. However, Bioware purposely handled the communication badly and that poor customer service is unethical:

Portrayed as "Good news" for last-gen customer

Not explicitly saying old-gen support was dropped (patches AND new dlc)

No official explanation as to why.

Not mentioning the future drop of old gen when Jaws of Haakon was released on old gen May 26th (Cross-buy was announced May 28th)

Requiring old-gen customers to buy DAI a 2nd time to play future DLC (double profit$$)

Don't forget how they put the patch drop on the mp forum where not a lot of people would see it, unsticked the thread so it would be forgotten, and proceeded to never put anything related to support drops on their sites so that information isn't well-known.

Why are they now trying to hide that information?

[GithCheater]

While this is speculative (since the cross buy program is not necessarily proof for a last gen drop) , I'd agree that it is relatively likely that the decision for the drop may have been made around that point when it became obvious that the sales numbers no longer justified the additional costs for doing 5-platform-releases.

 

There were zero 360, ps3 or ps4 DLC's sold when the cross-by decision was made by Bioware.   The Cross-buy announcement was two days after Jaws of Haakon was released on 360 ps3 and ps4 (therefore the decision was made before the xbone exclusive ended).

[Zanallen]

the way some people throw out the word *entitled* is becoming a right pain in the arse  ,  if a person has paid the full price of the game then of course they are entitled to a working copy of the bloody thing.  and if they should get a ps4 at a later date they should be able to download a copy of a game they already paid for , as far as i remember there was no price difference between the ps3 and the ps4 versions .

 

They received a working copy of the game. Are there still bugs? Sure. But there are still bugs in almost every Bioware game. A couple more months of patching isn't going to fix that. They are not entitled to further DLC and Bioware can end the patching cycle at any time they wish.

[Zanallen]

There were zero 360, ps3 or ps4 DLC's sold when the cross-by decision was made by Bioware.   The Cross-buy announcement was two days after Jaws of Haakon was released on 360 ps3 and ps4 (therefore the decision was made before the xbone exclusive ended).

 

Still speculative as the cross-buy system makes business sense with or without a drop in last gen development as we are on the cusp of a new console generation with more and more people upgrading to the new consoles.

 

Edit: And even if Bioware did decide to drop last gen development after making JoH, it still has no bearing on ethics as the last gen copies of the game were already purchased by that time.

[Zanallen]

Dropping last gen support in and of itself is not unethical.  However, Bioware purposely handled the communication badly and that poor customer service is unethical:

 

Portrayed as "Good news" for last-gen customer

 

Not explicitly saying old-gen support was dropped (patches AND new dlc)

 

No official explanation as to why.

 

Not mentioning the future drop of old gen when Jaws of Haakon was released on old gen May 26th (Cross-buy was announced May 28th)

 

Requiring old-gen customers to buy DAI a 2nd time to play future DLC (double profit$$)

 

Poor communication and crap customer service are hallmarks of Bioware, but not unethical behavior. Bioware hasn't lied to you about this situation, nor have they tricked you out of any money or promised content. Has there been an official announcement? No, not really. That's the nature of publicly traded companies, I am afraid. It takes a while for the PR machine to roll. Of course, we may never get an official announcement, but I think them no selling the new DLC for the old systems serves well enough in that regard. As for an official explanation, Bioware is under no obligation to provide you with that.

[Panda]

They received a working copy of the game. Are there still bugs? Sure. But there are still bugs in almost every Bioware game. A couple more months of patching isn't going to fix that. They are not entitled to further DLC and Bioware can end the patching cycle at any time they wish.

 

Situation with DAI is not comparable to any other BW game on the same system. I have never experienced even one crash with ME1-3 and DAO and DA2. They are very common with DAI. Texture pop-in's.. some small one's in ME2, but they are in every cutscene in DAI and worse than ever with ME2. Sound clitches seem to be unique DAI, those loud metallic screeching noises that sound like something has broken with the hardware.. but no it's just the game.

 

Seriously have you even played the game with old gen console? If you haven't don't even try to claim it's patched properly and it's in good condition. It's not, it's like Skyrim on the release, before it was patched. And Skyrim was patched 2 years.. why Bioware thinks they can only do minor patches half year and then be done with if they deliver broken game?

[Zanallen]

Situation with DAI is not comparable to any other BW game on the same system. I have never experienced even one crash with ME1-3 and DAO and DA2. They are very common with DAI. Texture pop-in's.. some small one's in ME2, but they are in every cutscene in DAI and worse than ever with ME2. Sound clitches seem to be unique DAI, those loud metallic screeching noises that sound like something has broken with the hardware.. but no it's just the game.

 

Seriously have you even played the game with old gen console? If you haven't don't even try to claim it's patched properly and it's in good condition. It's not, it's like Skyrim on the release, before it was patched. And Skyrim was patched 2 years.. why Bioware thinks they can only do minor patches half year and then be done with if they deliver broken game?

 

There are still several severe bugs in Awakening. There are bugs and glitches in all of Bioware's games. Are they more severe in DA:I? Probably, but then again the game is pushing the old consoles hard. I'm of the opinion that Bioware should never have tried to make the game work on PS3 or 360 and that the current gen versions are worse off because of Bioware's decision. However, not everyone is going to experience the same bugs, glitches, etc. And yes, I have played my cousin's 360 version. There are issues, but it is a working game. She's beaten it several times.

[Rawgrim]

Rawgrim remembered this also in December, but I cannot find evidence of the October topic.

 

http://forum.bioware...n-of-dai/page-2

 

I brought it up several times, and others did as well. Its not like Bioware haven't done things like this before.

 

Remember in Throne of Bhaal? One of the loading screens in that one said "The story doesn't end with Throne of Bhaal. Neverwinter Nights lets you import your BG character to continue the story" (something like that). Just fire up BG2 Throne of Bhaal and you see it.

 

They did something similar with the Witch Hunt DLC for DA:O, as well. The sales pitch was "Track down Morrigan and learn her deep secret" something like that. The player learned nothing about her deep secret or plans, did they?

[Voodoo Dancer]

i gave the ps3 copy of the game another go the other day for the first time in about 8 or 9 months , within a few hours of playing it the game crashed half a dozen times and when the ps3 gets going again you've also lost the last save or two that you made so you find yourself shuffled back to earlier on in the game , you run around skyhold at your own peril , with that damned autosave always spinning and you know the game will crash if your toon so much as twitches , its almost funny now but back when i first got the game it used to drive me mental .  its astonishing that the game is still in the same condition as when i last played it all those months ago and that they've done nothing to fix it .  as for the dlc i couldn't care less what machines they release it for , the game itself didn't hook me in enough for me to want to play more of the same .

[Panda]

There are still several severe bugs in Awakening. There are bugs and glitches in all of Bioware's games. Are they more severe in DA:I? Probably, but then again the game is pushing the old consoles hard. I'm of the opinion that Bioware should never have tried to make the game work on PS3 or 360 and that the current gen versions are worse off because of Bioware's decision. However, not everyone is going to experience the same bugs, glitches, etc. And yes, I have played my cousin's 360 version. There are issues, but it is a working game. She's beaten it several times.

 

At this point it's bit useless to say what they should have not done unless BW owns time machine ^^; They did the game and they are responsible in properly patching it. They have not done that for my and many other players experience, to me DAI is most broken game I have ever experienced on my system: it's very rare to even get crashes and hard freezes on the system.  Bioware is responsible over the game they released, it's their product. And people should be able complain all they want if product isn't fixed to acceptable condition: game shouldn't simply work, it should work well. It's product after all.

[TreeHuggerHannah]

i gave the ps3 copy of the game another go the other day for the first time in about 8 or 9 months , within a few hours of playing it the game crashed half a dozen times and when the ps3 gets going again you've also lost the last save or two that you made so you find yourself shuffled back to earlier on in the game , you run around skyhold at your own peril , with that damned autosave always spinning and you know the game will crash if your toon so much as twitches , its almost funny now but back when i first got the game it used to drive me mental .

 

I actually had the opposite experience - I've had at least as many game crashes in the 13 hours I've put in on the PS4 as I did in the prior 108 hours on PS3. The game certainly looks a lot prettier, but for me it's been much less stable on current gen.

[Zanallen]

At this point it's bit useless to say what they should have not done unless BW owns time machine ^^; They did the game and they are responsible in properly patching it. They have not done that for my and many other players experience, to me DAI is most broken game I have ever experienced on my system: it's very rare to even get crashes and hard freezes on the system.  Bioware is responsible over the game they released, it's their product. And people should be able complain all they want if product isn't fixed to acceptable condition: game shouldn't simply work, it should work well. It's product after all.

 

Really? The most broken game you have ever experienced? Why didn't you return it then? If I had a game that I could barely play because of freezes, crashes, and glitches (a broken game), I would have returned it. That is something you can do with console games. Or, if you waited too long to return it, then trade it in for cash or credit. Have you beaten the game?

 

Look, the fact of the matter is, the game works. It is a working game. I've played it on the old gen consoles. It looks like crap and I have had the occasional freeze, but it works. My cousin has beaten it on the 360 several times. Bioware is not going to make more patches for the old gen version. These things happen. Patching and content creation always comes to an end eventually. Sometimes it ends with game breaking bugs still in play. That's life. Personally, I don't think Bioware is going to patch anything more for the current gen versions either, aside from DLC issues. If you feel bad about how Bioware is treating you, I suggest you let your wallet do the talking and don't buy their games anymore.