394 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

I was never particularly sympathetic to the people angry over Thane's death. Granted, femsheps do seem to get the short end of the stick overall, but I don't like the idea of the character stories being entirely at the whims of romance content. We knew right from the start that Thane was a dying man. Fans should have been ready to deal with consequences for that. 

[Panda]

To be fair, a good femme fatale isn't meant to be likable. She's meant to be irresistable.

 

Well other said this already with different words, but I don't think she can be that to everyone and thus people who aren't into her and don't find her irresistable- due to being straight women, gay men, or another reason, would probaply find her mostly annoying.

 

Maybe Sister Petrice from DA2 would be good example of this. Take sex appeal out of femme fatale trope and you get deceitful woman who fakes vulnerability and manipulates your protag to help her somewhat evil goals. And that character is quite universally hated and that's probaply case for lot of femme fetales with people who aren't attracted to them if they do not have some kind of likeability.

[daveliam]

Well other said this already with different words, but I don't think she can be that to everyone and thus people who aren't into her and don't find her irresistable- due to being straight women, gay men, or another reason, would probaply find her mostly annoying.

 

Maybe Sister Petrice from DA2 would be good example of this. Take sex appeal out of femme fatale trope and you get deceitful woman who fakes vulnerability and manipulates your protag to help her somewhat evil goals. And that character is quite universally hated and that's probaply case for lot of femme fetales with people who aren't attracted to them if they do not have some kind of likeability.

 

Yeah, this was kind of what I was getting at earlier.  If I'm not attracted to her, then how does her 'femme fatale' nature play out?  That's why I thought it would be best played out in the romance content.  She only goes full-on femme fatale with a PC who has expressed interest in her?  Just trying to think how she'd work in a game with a customizable PC.

[SardaukarElite]

For sure.  Just seems like people are dead set on a very literal interpretation of femme fatale.  Any perceived deviation from the stock trope has been dismissed, so I was working within that frame.  I'm always up for subverting tropes, personally.  Homme fatale, anyone?

 

I skipped most of this thread after the preemptive strike on feminism on the first page (keep trying the satire guys, you'll get there one day).

 

I'm not sure what a very literal interpretation of the femme fatale is. Archetypes / roles / tropes aren't a set of rigid rules, and I don't think bolting them together or building on them necessarily destroys the original idea. Catwoman is often considered a femme fatale, and yet she's also a cat burglar. If you don't engage with the femme fatale part then you still have Michelle Pfeiffer voicing Kasumi, sort of.

[Panda]

I skipped most of this thread after the preemptive strike on feminism on the first page (keep trying the satire guys, you'll get there one day).

 

I'm not sure what a very literal interpretation of the femme fatale is. Archetypes / roles / tropes aren't a set of rigid rules, and I don't think bolting them together or building on them necessarily destroys the original idea. Catwoman is often considered a femme fatale, and yet she's also a cat burglar. If you don't engage with the femme fatale part then you still have Michelle Pfeiffer voicing Kasumi, sort of.

 

Catwoman was also first one I thought about, but I think she's more fun side of femme fetale as well. She's kind of anti-hero too so I wonder how that fits

[Quarian Master Race]

I want a crew of professionals, not love-hungry rabid dogs.

 

 

This.

You'd think people charged with exploring a new galaxy would be picked for their competence and professionalism, right? I'm fine with needy lovebirds and whiny therapy cases among the civilians, but there's little reason they'd be part of the crew.

Unless psych evaluation was incompetent, too.

This and this.

I don't want the Femme Fatale trope anywhere near my ship as an ally. Now as an adversary who seduces incompetent allies (not the ones in my crew unless I can subsequently punish them), perhaps it would be more palatable, but as a squadmate who is more concerned with boning the entire ship than the actual mission, they'd be first in line to be airlocked or Virmired with that sort of behavior (provided there isn't a whiny synthetic in the "crew"). Fraternization is prohibited in most modern armies for a reason, because it's extremely bad for business for a multitude of reasons.

I actually don't like that aspect with most of the ME romances, but tolerate it because it's pretty much the only way to allow those reationships to be included at all. A character who intentionally runs around breaking regs would subjectively be too much, though. TBH I really didn't even like the SR2 becoming the love boat in ME3 with things such as Ken/Gabby, Tali/Garrus(granted at least they're technically under seperate COC's), Joker/EDI, and Ash/James.

[Larry-3]

Apparently Miranda has her one Wikipedia page...

"Humanity's iteration in Mass Effect is meant to be only fairly far in the future enough to be "new but not unrecognisable". Through standardizing the different concept art for their clothes, a "common visual language" was found for them. Early concept art for Miranda focused on balancing her sex appeal with a uniform suitable for her position as a Cerberus officer. Originally conceived as blonde, after her uniform was designed, it was decided black hair would fit better with her "femme fatale" look. Casey Hudson has said her uniform was made tight due to her being designed to be "perfect" and "beautiful". Miranda Lawson is voiced by and modeled after actress Yvonne Strahovski.

In Mass Effect 2, camera angles and shots such as a close-up of her butt were employed to focus on "her curves and sexuality", identified as key parts of her character, her being someone genetically engineered to be "perfect" and a femme fatale. David Kates composed Miranda's musical theme, intending to "demonstrate her strength, but also her vulnerable side, and a sadness that is deep inside her".

[Abraham_uk]

BioWare, can we get a vixen type girl for a squadmate? I have a weakness for the intelligent, deadly, attractive girls, with long legs, and long hair -- preferably red or black. I do not want the traditional female, the innocent girl, or the perfect paragon; I want the vixen, the ice queen, the girl who really beautiful and deadly simultaneously. I already know there is going to be romance, so let me have some fun. Think Morrigan from Dragon Age or Miranda Lawson from the eariler Mass Effect's.

 

This is interesting. I like the idea. However I there are a few changes I'd make.

I like her to be more open and warm than cold ice queen. More social butterfly than standoffish.

Also I don't think she needs to be in a catsuit and high heels. I'd like outfits to be practical.

 

Her sex appeal would come from being intelligent and deadly whilst also being a little flirtatious.

For me I'd like her to be highly charismatic, sociable and forward.

 

So basically Black Widow meets Anna (not Elsa) from Frozen.

[Cyonan]

Apparently Miranda has her one Wikipedia page...

"Humanity's iteration in Mass Effect is meant to be only fairly far in the future enough to be "new but not unrecognisable". Through standardizing the different concept art for their clothes, a "common visual language" was found for them. Early concept art for Miranda focused on balancing her sex appeal with a uniform suitable for her position as a Cerberus officer. Originally conceived as blonde, after her uniform was designed, it was decided black hair would fit better with her "femme fatale" look. Casey Hudson has said her uniform was made tight due to her being designed to be "perfect" and "beautiful". Miranda Lawson is voiced by and modeled after actress Yvonne Strahovski.

In Mass Effect 2, camera angles and shots such as a close-up of her butt were employed to focus on "her curves and sexuality", identified as key parts of her character, her being someone genetically engineered to be "perfect" and a femme fatale. David Kates composed Miranda's musical theme, intending to "demonstrate her strength, but also her vulnerable side, and a sadness that is deep inside her".

 

Well, saying your character is a femme fatale doesn't actually make them one. Miranda was designed to look the part, but she doesn't really act it.

 

As much as I like Morrigan, I would say she doesn't act the part either.

[KaiserShep]

I was never particularly sympathetic to the people angry over Thane's death. Granted, femsheps do seem to get the short end of the stick overall, but I don't like the idea of the character stories being entirely at the whims of romance content. We knew right from the start that Thane was a dying man. Fans should have been ready to deal with consequences for that.

I would have been disappointed if suddenly, a cure for Kepral's syndrome reared its head in ME3. While he ultimately got the short end of the stick through the pointy end of Kai Leng, I enjoyed his final dialogue and that his persona stayed intact, and I liked Kolyat's cameo, which would not have been as good if Thane was suddenly cured or something.

[The Hierophant]

IIRC RE2's Ada Wong fits the description. I'd like to see Bio create a quality character like her.

[Patchwork]

For me it's not so much that Thane died as the cut scene incompetence that caused it to happen and the lack of acknowledgement in the base game. Yeah Garrus it's great we didn't have to shoot Kaidan but what about your former teammate aka my boyfriend who just died!

 

Would a femme fatale character work if her manipulations were directed elsewhere? Still a potential love interest but she has an agenda and personal quests that are completely separate from her relationship with the pc? 

[PhroXenGold]

Well other said this already with different words, but I don't think she can be that to everyone and thus people who aren't into her and don't find her irresistable- due to being straight women, gay men, or another reason, would probaply find her mostly annoying.

 

Maybe Sister Petrice from DA2 would be good example of this. Take sex appeal out of femme fatale trope and you get deceitful woman who fakes vulnerability and manipulates your protag to help her somewhat evil goals. And that character is quite universally hated and that's probaply case for lot of femme fetales with people who aren't attracted to them if they do not have some kind of likeability.

 

Oh completely. That's exactly how it should be. Those that see through her should hate her. And that's why I'd love to see such a character in ME:A. I don't want all the characters to be "likable" to everyone. A setting is far more believable and immersive to me if there are meany people - including those I'm working with - who I don't find "likable". I want some of the people around me to be trying to manipulate me. I want some of them to be right bitches/bastards. But at the same time, I want the chance to fall for them. To see where it will go. A well designed and written femme fatale (preferably one who can't simply be turned good by a quick shag) would be a fascinating character.

[Panda]

Oh completely. That's exactly how it should be. Those that see through her should hate her. And that's why I'd love to see such a character in ME:A. I don't want all the characters to be "likable" to everyone. A setting is far more believable and immersive to me if there are meany people - including those I'm working with - who I don't find "likable". I want some of the people around me to be trying to manipulate me. I want some of them to be right bitches/bastards. But at the same time, I want the chance to fall for them. To see where it will go. A well designed and written femme fatale (preferably one who can't simply be turned good by a quick shag) would be a fascinating character.

 

Well.. I'm not that intrested of getting squadmate I'd hate, but if that's what people want I guess I can deal with it. Hopefully she wouldn't be mandatory squadmate though and could not be recruited.

[Cyonan]

Oh completely. That's exactly how it should be. Those that see through her should hate her. And that's why I'd love to see such a character in ME:A. I don't want all the characters to be "likable" to everyone. A setting is far more believable and immersive to me if there are meany people - including those I'm working with - who I don't find "likable". I want some of the people around me to be trying to manipulate me. I want some of them to be right bitches/bastards. But at the same time, I want the chance to fall for them. To see where it will go. A well designed and written femme fatale (preferably one who can't simply be turned good by a quick shag) would be a fascinating character.

 

Only if I can throw them out the airlock.

 

After all of the talk in the original trilogy about it, I'm going to be disappointed if I can't throw something or someone out the airlock in ME:A.

[Broganisity]

Well, saying your character is a femme fatale doesn't actually make them one. Miranda was designed to look the part, but she doesn't really act it.

Honestly though, I still think she's part shark with those smiles.

And as mentioned prior, she's an ice cream bar. Appealing to look at, but melts when heated.
 

[Mcfly616]

BioWare, can we get a vixen type girl for a squadmate? I have a weakness for the intelligent, deadly, attractive girls, with long legs, and long hair

Hmm yeah, because we've never had that type of squadmate before. 

[Pasquale1234]

There's really only a couple of ways I can see this going (assuming the original request is for this character to be a romance)

-- The PC somehow "fixes" her. Melts the ice queen, turns her away from her nefarious plot, assuages her painful past, or somesuch. Not a new archetype; pretty standard fare in Bioware games.

-- The PC helps her achieve her goals / succumbs to her charms. I think we've seen these before, too - Shepard could help Jack blow up Pragia and/or literally succumb to Morinth's charms.

I also think Aria T'Loak might somehow fit into this trope, though she was not a squadmate.

So I'm not quite sure how this would be different from some of the characters we've already seen.

[Larry-3]

I am perfectly fine melting the ice around the heart of a vixen. Just do not let it melt to fast; I want a little bit of a chase.

[Larry-3]

Hmm yeah, because we've never had that type of squadmate before.

[+3 renegade]

[SpaceLobster]

Although having a femme fatale as a NPC ia a good idea, wouldn't it be interesting if the PC could attempt it (too). I mean, I have heard people talking about taking "Renegading"/intimidating to the next level, but what if you can take "Charming" to the next level, and wouldn't it be hilarious if your PC failed horribly?

[The Hierophant]

There's really only a couple of ways I can see this going (assuming the original request is for this character to be a romance)

-- The PC somehow "fixes" her. Melts the ice queen, turns her away from her nefarious plot, assuages her painful past, or somesuch. Not a new archetype; pretty standard fare in Bioware games.

-- The PC helps her achieve her goals / succumbs to her charms. I think we've seen these before, too - Shepard could help Jack blow up Pragia and/or literally succumb to Morinth's charms.

I also think Aria T'Loak might somehow fit into this trope, though she was not a squadmate.

So I'm not quite sure how this would be different from some of the characters we've already seen.

Can't they just go with the Solas route for the character?

[The Heretic of Time]

Apparently Miranda has her one Wikipedia page...

"Humanity's iteration in Mass Effect is meant to be only fairly far in the future enough to be "new but not unrecognisable". Through standardizing the different concept art for their clothes, a "common visual language" was found for them. Early concept art for Miranda focused on balancing her sex appeal with a uniform suitable for her position as a Cerberus officer. Originally conceived as blonde, after her uniform was designed, it was decided black hair would fit better with her "femme fatale" look. Casey Hudson has said her uniform was made tight due to her being designed to be "perfect" and "beautiful". Miranda Lawson is voiced by and modeled after actress Yvonne Strahovski.

In Mass Effect 2, camera angles and shots such as a close-up of her butt were employed to focus on "her curves and sexuality", identified as key parts of her character, her being someone genetically engineered to be "perfect" and a femme fatale. David Kates composed Miranda's musical theme, intending to "demonstrate her strength, but also her vulnerable side, and a sadness that is deep inside her".

 

Does it really surprise you that BioWare doesn't know what they're talking about? I mean honestly, Miranda is not a femme fatale by any stretch of the imagination.

[Panda]

There's really only a couple of ways I can see this going (assuming the original request is for this character to be a romance)

-- The PC somehow "fixes" her. Melts the ice queen, turns her away from her nefarious plot, assuages her painful past, or somesuch. Not a new archetype; pretty standard fare in Bioware games.

-- The PC helps her achieve her goals / succumbs to her charms. I think we've seen these before, too - Shepard could help Jack blow up Pragia and/or literally succumb to Morinth's charms.

I also think Aria T'Loak might somehow fit into this trope, though she was not a squadmate.

So I'm not quite sure how this would be different from some of the characters we've already seen.

 

First one sounds like Morrigan to me, though she still continued her plan, somewhat Jack and some other LI's too. Well, almost all LI's in BW's games have painful past and get new direction from protagonist

 

I think Aria could fit otherwise, but she doesn't really deceive you nor try to seduce or act vulnerable. She's dangerous woman and see tells it to you right away. "Don't **** with Aria."

[Abraham_uk]

Although having a femme fatale as a NPC ia a good idea, wouldn't it be interesting if the PC could attempt it (too). I mean, I have heard people talking about taking "Renegading"/intimidating to the next level, but what if you can take "Charming" to the next level, and wouldn't it be hilarious if your PC failed horribly?

 

I'd like more options. That would be cool.

 

 

Harsh - These dialogue options lead to more aggressive dialogue from the main character. Reactions can be hostile and unpredictable.

 

Tactful -Tactful options respects the person talking. This is not the same as neutral. Some diplomatic options can have a bias.  

 

Smooth - Charming and sometimes even sexual. There are moments when smooth can open the way for romances. Smooth however isn't always flirtatious. 

 

Neutral - Neutral options take no sides and endeavour to ask lots of questions.

 

Comedic - Teasing, sarcastic, amusing or at times passive aggressive. Comedic options blur the line between smooth and harsh and rely on comic timing.

 

Deceptive - Deception is a skill. Maybe you're hiding information. Maybe you're being misleading. Maybe you're outright lying. If the player character is not good at deception, they will show tell tell signs, such as nervous coughing, sweating, not making eye contact and erratic pauses. In addition, the story being spun may have holes in it...