(On Topic: I'm meh on the idea in the OP. We've had that type of gal as a squaddie already. I'm ready for something new, but I wouldn't be upset if we got another one).
No we haven't.
Not a single BioWare game has a femme fatale squad member, unless you count Morinth who barely has any content and completely got shafted in ME3.
I play this game as well and don't want resources spent on making women objects to serve men. It alienates me and many others. Video games and other media don't exist in a vacuum; it reflects and normalizes the objectification of women. I want to see realistic portrayals of women. I play biowares games because they are one of the few companies that don't alienate me. They still have problems but are better than most.
What exactly is a realistic portrayal of a woman? You can choose just about any type you wish and it can be countered, same with men. You can list just any example of a portrayal that you find distasteful and a person can find a real life example.
Hello everyone. Let's keep it civil and on topic in here. Thank you.
1. That's a complete cop-out. Videogames don't have to contain violence any more than they have to contain "sexism". Game designers just choose to put violence in their games because it's the easiest way to add conflict to your game and it sells well.
2. So that's why violence and murder is much more occurrent and a much bigger problem in our western society than rape? Okay buddy.
You can criticize whatever you want but you overstep your boundaries when you start to demand change. Game devs can do whatever the heck the want and if you don't like it, vote with your wallet, write an angry tumblr post if you want but leave it at that. You have no right to tell game devs what they can or cannot make.
1. No, video games don't necessarily have to include violence, but from a design point of view, it's the path of least resistance. Again, there aren't analogous design considerations favoring objectification.
2. I didn't say or imply that rape or sexism was a bigger problem than murder violence, and honestly I have no idea how you got that implication. What I said is that video games are unlikely to contribute to violence, whereas it's at least possible that video games contribute to sexism because of the lower barrier to entry. I don't know if they do, but again, that's not the most interesting issue to me.
And here's the rub: What constitutes 'demanding' change? I have no idea where we get this idea that writing a think piece on Polygon or a forum post on BSN about sexism constitutes some attack on free speech, particularly when these same kinds of actions undertaken in defense of an anti-feminist point of view would probably be perceived as totally in-bounds. For instance, would a review of Dragon Age which complains about incessant pandering to LGBT players constitute transgressing the 'boundaries' (whatever those are?). Feel free to disagree with feminists and the like, but try to make sure you are applying the same intellectual standards to yourself that you apply to them.
What exactly is a realistic portrayal of a woman? You can choose just about any type you wish and it can be countered, same with men. You can list just any example of a portrayal that you find distasteful and a person can find a real life example.
What I said is that video games are unlikely to contribute to violence, whereas it's at least possible that video games contribute to sexism. I don't know if they do, but again, that's not the most interesting issue to me.
They most likely don't, considering both violence and sexism in general are in an exponential decline while the game industry is exponentially growing. If games don't normalize violence or contribute to real-life violence than it's safe to assume they don't normalize or contribute to real-life sexism either. Suggesting anything else needs to be proven with solid evidence.
No we haven't.
Not a single BioWare game has a femme fatale squad member, unless you count Morinth who barely has any content and completely got shafted in ME3.
Morinth is absolutely a femme fatale. She's the walking embodiment of it. She's a sexy, attractive woman who seduces people and, in her case, kills them through mating.
I could see an argument that Miranda is a femme fatale as well. She was genetically engineered to be attractive and she makes no bones about using her looks to her advantage. She flat out says that she uses her looks to gain the upperhand. And her romance with Shep certainly puts him in danger. It's not a perfect fit for it, but it's pretty damn close.
I'm thinking of actual armor and helmets instead of cat suits, masks and heels. I want to see women written with characterization in mind and not just be eye candy. Bioware is already decent at the latter.
Have you actually walked around a town any town and observed how people dress? Have you ever walked around a University? I'd say the 1st big step in the how people dress issue is to take the people dressing themselves to task, the doesn't happen though. Skirts? Impractical in reality, certain tops? Very impractical and still people choose of their own free will to dress in them. (also the eye candy 100% goes both ways)
Morinth is absolutely a femme fatale. She's the walking embodiment of it. She's a sexy, attractive woman who seduces people and, in her case, kills them through mating.
I could see an argument that Miranda is a femme fatale as well. She was genetically engineered to be attractive and she makes no bones about using her looks to her advantage. She flat out says that she uses her looks to gain the upperhand. And her romance with Shep certainly puts him in danger. It's not a perfect fit for it, but it's pretty damn close.
Morinth might be a femme fatale but her role in ME2 is incredibly minor and she gets completely shafted in ME3. I'd like to see a real femme fatale in a BioWare game that doesn't get shafted.
Miranda is absolutely not a femme fatale though. Nothing about her says "femme fatale". She might be genetically engineerd to be attractive but she never uses that to her advantage in the series. She's not a manipulator, she's not using seduction as a weapon and she's not a pathological liar or charmer. She has the "femme" part, but she's lacking the "fatale" part.
Have you actually walked around a town any town and observed how people dress? Have you ever walked around a University? I'd say the 1st big step in the how people dress issue is to take the people dressing themselves to task, the doesn't happen though. Skirts? Impractical in reality, certain tops? Very impractical and still people choose of their own free will to dress in them. (also the eye candy 100% goes both ways)
Morinth might be a femme fatale but her role in ME2 is incredibly minor and she gets completely shafted in ME3. I'd like to see a real femme fatale in a BioWare game that doesn't get shafted.
Miranda is absolutely not a femme fatale though. Nothing about her says "femme fatale". She might be genetically engineerd to be attractive but she never uses that to her advantage in the series. She's not a manipulator, she's not using seduction as a weapon and she's not a pathological liar or charmer. She has the "femme" part, but she's lacking the "fatale" part.
Well, regardless of the size of her part, Morinth is a full squad member in ME2. She still counts.
With regard to Miranda, I think it's a case of 'telling not showing'. She explains that she does the things that you mention. But we really don't see them. Again, I don't think she's the best example, but she's certainly trope-adjacent. I wasn't saying that Bioware has overdone the trope. Just that we've seen it before. And we have. Not sure why you are trying to quibble the point.
Morinth might be a femme fatale but her role in ME2 is incredibly minor and she gets completely shafted in ME3. I'd like to see a real femme fatale in a BioWare game that doesn't get shafted.
Miranda is absolutely not a femme fatale though. Nothing about her says "femme fatale". She might be genetically engineerd to be attractive but she never uses that to her advantage in the series. She's not a manipulator, she's not using seduction as a weapon and she's not a pathological liar or charmer. She has the "femme" part, but she's lacking the "fatale" part.
Sad thing is, is that Morinth had a larger role in ME3 according to the leaked script. She was supposed to have shown up at the monastery mission to free her sisters IIRC.
Also, based on cut ME2 audio, she was originally meant to just be herself after recruitment. Which makes sense, as by the looks of things, nobody besides maybe Jacob cared about Samara to begin with.
I'm still butthurt about all this. >_<
I know the stoopid term, much like "sexualization", is just code for "what men like". If someone is too insecure and offended to see that men want slender and attractive women both IRL and in fiction, well, that's their own personal problem.
*psst* Calling your opponent a ginormous fatso doesn't win the argument. We can all name call but why would I want to call anyone a crusted over neck beard? 'Cause we all know you're not one, right? Right? LolSpeak for yourself. I like squishy, homely girls who see the world through a prism of persecution and create conflict out of the simplest situations.
But maybe that's just me.
Morinth is absolutely a femme fatale. She's the walking embodiment of it. She's a sexy, attractive woman who seduces people and, in her case, kills them through mating.
I could see an argument that Miranda is a femme fatale as well. She was genetically engineered to be attractive and she makes no bones about using her looks to her advantage. She flat out says that she uses her looks to gain the upperhand. And her romance with Shep certainly puts him in danger. It's not a perfect fit for it, but it's pretty damn close.
If you read my post with the definition of femme fatale, you'd know that Miranda isn't one at all... and that Morinth only is one technically.
*psst* Calling your opponent a ginormous fatso doesn't win the argument. We can all name call but why would I want to call anyone a crusted over neck beard? 'Cause we all know you're not one, right? Right? Lol
Who says he was talking about you? Much to your dismay, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Who says he was talking about you? Much to your dismay, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Thanks for letting me know. I'll be over here being dismayed while the world just.... revolves.
For the love of god get over yourself.
Try DOA, Christie is one of my favorite bad bitches in gaming and a proper femme fetale.
https://www.youtube....h?v=bz2v_lLxz20
She's also one of the very few dames in fiction or IRL that can rock a short hairstyle without looking androgynous or butch(girl game recognized).
And her romance with Shep certainly puts him in danger.
lulz. The only one put in danger by that romance was Miranda. That's the opposite of a femme fatale.
Isnt a femme fatale a villain trope? It's also usually tied up with weird sexual morality (she is a villainous character in contrast to a "purer" heroine ).
Not necessarily. A femme fatale can use her skills for the greater good, or she can be a character that is on the path of redemption, someone who starts as an anti-heroine but becomes a heroine by the end of the story.
Isnt a femme fatale a villain trope? It's also usually tied up with weird sexual morality (she is a villainous character in contrast to a "purer" heroine ).
At its basic, the Femme Fatale is just a character type who manipulates through charm and sexual intrigue rather than just plain charisma and wit. Whether or not they serve as a foil or contrast to another character is not tied to the concept.
Often secretly in opposition to the protagonist, some are won over in the end and turn coats (usually in this case because love conquers all and whatnot).
An example of a Femme Fatale is the female lead in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. The James Bond movies have a few as well. . . I can't come up with any that I can think of off the top of my head, especially that are won over in the end.
*psst* Calling your opponent a ginormous fatso doesn't win the argument. We can all name call but why would I want to call anyone a crusted over neck beard? 'Cause we all know you're not one, right? Right? Lol
Uh, that's sort of the point. Most of you anti-equality types have no clue what feminists are actually saying because you don't listen. But, hey, keep tilting at your windmills. Meanwhile, the rest of us are moving on, including BW, and becoming more inclusive.
Of course, because if you're pro- gender equally then you're a feminist! And if you aren't a feminist you're "anti-equality." Lol.
The funniest part is, in my original post that you overreacted to, I didn't even mention feminism.
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