This.I want a crew of professionals, not love-hungry rabid dogs.
This.
You'd think people charged with exploring a new galaxy would be picked for their competence and professionalism, right? I'm fine with needy lovebirds and whiny therapy cases among the civilians, but there's little reason they'd be part of the crew.
Unless psych evaluation was incompetent, too.
I would absolutely love it if this happened. It would make for a nice change of pace.
I want a crew of professionals, not love-hungry rabid dogs.
Then play Gears of War?
This.
You'd think people charged with exploring a new galaxy would be picked for their competence and professionalism, right? I'm fine with needy lovebirds and whiny therapy cases among the civilians, but there's little reason they'd be part of the crew.
Unless psych evaluation was incompetent, too.
I wanted to mention that I'm okay with some of the crew having a few issues. For instance, I thought Garrus' personal quests in ME1 and ME2 were very well done. He didn't angst about his father (oh hai Miranda) or an ex-lover, which was welcome by me. He had that serial killer that got away (Saelon) and wanted to go after the guy that betrayed his team (Sidonis.) I didn't feel like I was playing Therapist Hero with him very much, particularly in the romance. He also comes to terms with his decisions pretty quickly afterward, regardless of the player's choice.
It really depends upon how it's done. I know I'm good without another widow(er) with an estranged kid. Seriously, Thane was one giant conga line of drama and sorrow.
Guest_SynonymCinnamonSymomyn_*
Calm down misogynist police. Finding certain things attractive and wanting them is about as inherently evil as the threads asking for extinct minorities that you are fully in support of.
Policying other people over their looks and personality is. Also stating what you don't think people should have based on your type of women/men is not necessary at all and makes you dick. There is also different ways of saying things without being a dick. "You" as general here.
Like I said I have no problem with OP here and this request. I have problem with some people policying other people. Welcome to that bunch.
Also (as a FULL BLOODED Native/non-tribal) I find the assertion that (in addition to as unscientific as saying blondes will go extinct) Native Americans will be extinct racist, and I do believe the individual that posted that above (as quoted) has a deep resentment against people of that race. He had issues with a Native American facial presets and existence being acknowledged in the MEU in the thread dedicated to it and now he brings it up again here like it really bothers him someone requested it. I didn't see him doing the same in the "black chick" thread or speaking out against "blonde chicks" in threads where it is requested and elsewhere.
Tribes may come in go, but the people will still exist!
And yes I was very offended because I think the above poster dislikes Native American people based on the tone of his responses. That fact that he keeps pushing the..."they will be extinct" falsehood really smells of I want them extinct!
Blondes will not be extinct either.
Now watch me be torn apart as a SJW, or a lowlife, or some other negative to drown out what I said and how I feel about this in particular.
Then play Gears of War?
No, I don't even know what that is.
Oh, you make a good point! Garrus is a great example.I wanted to mention that I'm okay with some of the crew having a few issues. For instance, I thought Garrus' personal quests in ME1 and ME2 were very well done. He didn't angst about his father (oh hai Miranda) or an ex-lover, which was welcome by me. He had that serial killer that got away (Saelon) and wanted to go after the guy that betrayed his team (Sidonis.) I didn't feel like I was playing Therapist Hero with him very much, particularly in the romance. He also comes to terms with his decisions pretty quickly afterward, regardless of the player's choice.
It really depends upon how it's done. I know I'm good without another widow(er) with an estranged kid. Seriously, Thane was one giant conga line of drama and sorrow.
Oh, you make a good point! Garrus is a great example.
I wouldn't expect a crew to be totally free of issues either - as Admiral Hackett said at the very beginning of Mass Effect, "soldiers have scars".
It's how they deal with them, and Garrus dealt with them like a professional. He had his problems, but never gave you reason to worry that they'd turn him into a liability. And they were a soldier's issues and didn't feel soap opera inspired.
Now I admit I don't know what type of crew we'll get...but I think for something as big as exploring a new galaxy and the potential responsibility to keep a lot of civilian colonists safe (what good would the mission be without colonists?) a certain level of crew professionalism is a must.
I think of a Femme Fatale with parental issues and shudder a bit. Or another widow; frankly, we don't need a repeat of Zevran and have a dead lover by her own hand somewhere. 
Garrus was overall pretty level headed. I also liked his sense of humor, and I liked the fact that he's very honest with Shepard. The "ruthless calculus of war" conversation is probably one of my favorites in the entire series. If there was a Femme Fatale type, that's what I'd prefer. A lady that has her scars and issues, but isn't coddling the player nor brooding about it all the time.
@Larry Despite some of the bickering and sidetracking, this has been a great thread topic. I don't completely agree with you on the "Ice Queen" side of it, since I think we can have those archetypes as two different characters. However, you've given us some interesting food for thought.
Oh and as far as your hair color idea, it's possible imho. Even if the squad is on some sort of space station/"ark", I could see hair dye being synthesized and available. I have a thing for blue and green hair myself. The latter comes from FFIV and my love of the character Rydia. 
After reading several pages of circular arguments, I'm not sure whether it's worth contributing to the thread but... I'd quite like an LI like Isabela. She wasn't a 'femme fatale', but there are aspects of her personality that would be great for a character like that. Her attitude towards sex, for one thing.
I think it's pretty interesting that Leliana was like a post-femme fatale, since she used to use sexuality to seduce her marks (and kill them). Combine that with her ruthlessness in DAI, then translate it over to ME:A, and I think it would make for a very interesting character!
Totally down for the idea of a blonde LI too, there don't seem to be many in Bioware games.
After reading several pages of circular arguments, I'm not sure whether it's worth contributing to the thread but... I'd quite like an LI like Isabela. She wasn't a 'femme fatale', but there are aspects of her personality that would be great for a character like that. Her attitude towards sex, for one thing.
I think it's pretty interesting that Leliana was like a post-femme fatale, since she used to use sexuality to seduce her marks (and kill them). Combine that with her ruthlessness in DAI, then translate it over to ME:A, and I think it would make for a very interesting character!
Totally down for the idea of a blonde LI too, there don't seem to be many in Bioware games.
Yes! Also, her aforementioned honesty as well. It's rare even in a BioWare game where someone will be honest about the odds and/or situation. Her remarks at the end of DA2 (if you take her to the Gallows with you) made me laugh very hard. I also miss a lady character that can smirk like her. She's physically lovely and all, but her personality really seals it for me. Not a lot of characters like her in media general, especially inside of video games. I don't want a carbon copy of her, but I miss that spark, that sense of fun. Kasumi had it too, just a shame that she's DLC and didn't get the lines she deserved outside of Hock's place.
I also agree with Leliana (ignoring cries of Plot Armor) and it would be neat to see a pre-Origins Leliana-like character in ME:A. She was a little too ruthless if hardened in DA:I for my taste. In Leliana's Song, I thought she was the right balance of approachable and dangerous.
I did some checking and there hasn't been a blonde lady LI since NWN with Aribeth. For party members, not since BG2. The gay/bi men and the straight/bi ladies have gotten some (Cullen, Alistair, Anders, Fenris counts with his white hair, Sera for the ladies) but none for the guys. There has been...two redheads between ME and DA (Kelly and Leliana,) so I like request for the sake of variety.
On the flip side, there hasn't been a lot of dark-haired men for the ladies. I figure the gentlemen can have a blonde, and the ladies can have a guy with dark hair.
[...] I figure the gentlemen can have a blonde, and the ladies can have a guy with dark hair.
I can't remember a blonde in ME - Ash and Miranda were dark. Jack was mostly naked. And Tali and Liara - well. Not that I would have missed any blonde.
I can't remember a blonde in ME - Ash and Miranda were dark. Jack was mostly naked. And Tali and Liara - well. Not that I would have missed any blonde.
For the record, my first impression of Jack wasn't "she's nearly topless, omg!" It was "Holy crap. If this chick can dress like that in this setting, she's dangerous as hell." I was right, though I prefer her DLC outfit a lot more. She's my favorite squadmate for dealing with husks. Shockwave bowling is so much fun. It's my favorite part of the Legion recruitment mission.
Otherwise, DA is the same way. Morrigan, Merrill, Josie, Cassandra, Isabela. I think some people on the art team a couple of very specific types they enjoy.
Yes! Also, her aforementioned honesty as well. It's rare even in a BioWare game where someone will be honest about the odds and/or situation. Her remarks at the end of DA2 (if you take her to the Gallows with you) made me laugh very hard. I also miss a character that can smirk like her. She's physically lovely and all, but her personality really seals it for me. Not a lot of characters like her in media general, especially inside of video games. I don't want a carbon copy of her, but I miss that spark, that sense of fun. Kasumi had it too, just a shame that she's DLC and didn't get the lines she deserved outside of Hock's place.
I also agree with Leliana (ignoring cries of Plot Armor) and it would be neat to see a pre-Origins Leliana-like character in ME:A. She was a little too ruthless if hardened in DA:I for my taste. In Leliana's Song, I thought she was the right balance of approachable and dangerous.
I did some checking and there hasn't been a blonde lady LI since NWN with Aribeth. For party members, not since BG2. The gay/bi men and the straight/bi ladies have gotten some (Cullen, Alistair, Anders, Fenris counts with his white hair, Sera for the ladies) but none for the guys. There has been...two redheads between ME and DA (Kelly and Leliana,) so I like request for the sake of variety.
On the flip side, there hasn't been a lot of dark-haired men for the ladies. I figure the gentlemen can have a blonde, and the ladies can have a guy with dark hair.
Heh, DAI Leliana scared me a little. I think part of that is because I knew who she was in DAO, so it felt like she'd gotten darker and lost herself a little. Especially since she never seemed entirely comfortable with it until her personal quest in DAI (at which point she gets a little too ruthless for me, into 'unfeeling' territory). A character who's ruthless from the get-go would intrigue me. Maybe saw it as necessary but didn't angst or go overboard. Hmm. In retrospect, DAI-Leliana might not have been the best example!
Yeah, you're spot on about Isabela. I'd like a femme fatale with her easy-going nature (or Kasumi's) rather than being an 'ice queen'. Isabela's just so comfortable with herself, with sex and casual relationships. She's friendly and sociable, but without being 'soft' like Bethany (at least in Act1). I prefer it to the idea of an ice queen femme fatale, since that seems more predatory somehow. A little sinister.
Kasumi would've been the perfect ME LI for me, I love the funny, easy-going types. Plus, she had an amazing figure! 
Bioware definitely have a think for darker-haired ladies and paler-haired men! Mm, a dark-haired fella would be very fine by me. Give him Luke Pasqualino or Godfrey Gao's look and I'm sold! As for the woman, with those Natalie Dormer suggestions earlier, I'm really wondering whether Bioware could translate that little smirk sehe does into the game.
Heh, DAI Leliana scared me a little. I think part of that is because I knew who she was in DAO, so it felt like she'd gotten darker and lost herself a little. Especially since she never seemed entirely comfortable with it until her personal quest in DAI (at which point she gets a little too ruthless for me, into 'unfeeling' territory). A character who's ruthless from the get-go would intrigue me. Maybe saw it as necessary but didn't angst or go overboard. Hmm. In retrospect, DAI-Leliana might not have been the best example!
Leliana isn't as bad if you're careful in that first conversation. She "softens" a lot quicker if you have a romanced Warden. If your Warden defeated her, then she's much harder to avoid hardening. In fact, if you set that World State to "Leliana defeated by the Warden," you might as well just pick the most cold hearted answers with her. Or restart with a different world state.
Yeah, you're spot on about Isabela. I'd like a femme fatale with her easy-going nature (or Kasumi's) rather than being an 'ice queen'. Isabela's just so comfortable with herself, with sex and casual relationships. She's friendly and sociable, but without being 'soft' like Bethany (at least in Act1). I prefer it to the idea of an ice queen femme fatale, since that seems more predatory somehow. A little sinister.
Kasumi would've been the perfect ME LI for me, I love the funny, easy-going types. Plus, she had an amazing figure!
I figure we'd got room for the "Miranda" and the "Kasumi" characters. A double agent spy with Kasumi's humor and Miranda's ability to be cold would be nice. You know, someone fairly easy going and fun to be around. Someone unafraid to make jokes about the circumstances (even poking a bit at the fourth wall,) until things get very serious. Then I would like if the player sees a different side to her, one that shows just how cold and calculating this lady squad mate could really be. That's what I would like. Someone who's mode wasn't just "Playful Rogue" or "Ice Queen." A balance between humor and darkness, with Isabela's attitude about sex as a dash of flavor.
Bioware definitely have a think for darker-haired ladies and paler-haired men! Mm, a dark-haired fella would be very fine by me. Give him Luke Pasqualino or Godfrey Gao's look and I'm sold! As for the woman, with those Natalie Dormer suggestions earlier, I'm really wondering whether Bioware could translate that little smirk sehe does into the game.
If Cullen is any indication, I'd say that BioWare could pull off Ms. Dormer's smirk. 
Bioware definitely have a think for darker-haired ladies and paler-haired men! Mm, a dark-haired fella would be very fine by me. Give him Luke Pasqualino or Godfrey Gao's look and I'm sold! As for the woman, with those Natalie Dormer suggestions earlier, I'm really wondering whether Bioware could translate that little smirk sehe does into the game.
I think it's more so in DA side though in terms of men, there hasn't been blond male LI in ME either
I think it's more so in DA side though in terms of men, there hasn't been blond male LI in ME either
ME Andromeda be done on frostbite so expect no hair
I think it's more so in DA side though in terms of men, there hasn't been blond male LI in ME either
I'm not going to buck the trend either. I want to get a LI that looks and sounds like James Purefoy, in either series. I don't mention it much in here, since this thread is about a lady companion and not a guy.
ME Andromeda be done on frostbite so expect no hair
<snip>
I'm expecting 15 variations of buzzcut for both sexes.
I'm pretty sure Morrigan and Miranda aren't femme fatales, but I wouldn't say no to Lauren Bacall in space.
I'm not going to buck the trend either. I want to get a LI that looks and sounds like James Purefoy, in either series. I don't mention it much in here, since this thread is about a lady companion and not a guy.
In a few games we might get a shapechanging alien/magical LI who can be either male or female.
In a few games we might get a shapechanging alien/magical LI who can be either male or female.
It would be our luck they'd be more like Odo (with their "set" appearance looking really off) from DS9, only with a dead spouse, an abandoned mother, an estranged father and a murder of a child s/he regrets.
Okay, I think I am a touch cynical when it comes to BW romances.
I'm pretty sure Morrigan and Miranda aren't femme fatales, but I wouldn't say no to Lauren Bacall in space.
Wow, that's an excellent choice! She was extremely beautiful and had a real power to her roles that was rare during that time period.
For those that never heard of her, Lauren Bacall is from the Golden Age of Hollywood. Here's an example:
I sympathize with you. The thing is, Natashina didn't shut you down at all, she only asked that people stay on topic, which is a sensible thing to do.
Do you truly believe a discussion with some misogynistic trolls is going to result in anything positive? There's a time and a place for everything.
Your problem is that you see everything in black and white, people are either with you or against you. You also try to apply feminism to every little thing, even when it's not appropriate or when there are more important factors in play. You are tending to be more on the extreme side of arguments, too.
The thread was rather interesting and there was a lot to discuss but it went off the tracks the moment you reacted to a (stupid) comment someone made. And you didn't stop there, you snatched up every little bit of bait that was laid out for you over the past 5 pages. There are two ways to play this: Either you ignore the comments completely (but then you would have nothing to contribute to this thread) or you keep your cool and respond strictly with facts and wait for the trolls to overcommit, then use it against them. They usually shut up and leave threads once it becomes clear that they are trolling and the more often this happens, the more people realize what they are and avoid them.
What you did here didn't help feminism, it didn't help you and it sure as hell didn't help the discussion in the thread.
I'm not blaming you alone, you are as much victim as perpetrator here. This isn't the first time you turned a thread into a huge discussion about feminism, objectification etc. While I basically agree with the underlying thoughts of feminism, I find you too confrontational. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't work in this environment.
My best friend often tells me, "You can be 100% right and it still won't change anything." when I get into these kinds of arguments. So trust me, I am pretty sure I know how you feel. I have the impression that you'd be fun to talk with in another setting (dinner at my place, I cook for you?^^) but in here you have to deal with several people at once, all aligning their positions against you and reinforcing each other... which then frustrates you and leads you to sarcastic/insulting counterarguments.
This isn't meant as an attack on you. Perhaps it would be best to create your own thread about the (lack of) feminism in gaming?
@Yaroub & Malanek: I seriously don't know what to tell you, from my point of view it is crystal clear that no BioWare game ever had a character that fits the femme fatale description and if you interpret it differently than the majority in this thread, then I guess we will just have to disagree on that. *shrug* But if you think you already had two of them, then couldn't you just let the rest of us lobby for a true femme fatale as we see her?
To be fair I'm quite confused here what is counted as femme fatale and what not cause I see people saying different characters are or aren't one ^^; So I'm quite between on do I like this character archtype or not, cause for example I'd take femme fatale anyday in the game if she was like Kasumi 
In another thought, people keep mentioning ice queen and deceiving protagonist to help them. So wouldn't Vivienne be femme fatale if these points are considered? Or is she not seductive enough?
When this thread gets locked (and it will because people are insisting on continuing these petty arguments), can we agree to give it a few days and then open a new thread on this topic? It's an interesting one (I'm learning a lot about the various ways people view this trope - some very literal; others more liberal) and I think it would be cool to hear what people think about it. But can we also agree to not throw petty pot-shots at each other in order to bait a argument over feminism? And this is leveled at both sides, but particularly at the 'non-feminist' side since that's the side that doused the thread in fuel with troll-bait style comments which caused maia to come in and torch it. I think this particular one is beyond saving and I want to hear more about Lauren Bacall in space!
To be fair I'm quite confused here what is counted as femme fatale and what not cause I see people saying different characters are or aren't one ^^; So I'm quite between on do I like this character archtype or not, cause for example I'd take femme fatale anyday in the game if she was like Kasumi
In another thought, people keep mentioning ice queen and deceiving protagonist to help them. So wouldn't Vivienne be femme fatale if these points are considered? Or is she not seductive enough?
From my own perspective, she lacks a certain charisma that tends to go with the archetype. A Femme Fatale is someone that wants to lure you in, with promises of seduction, in order to drop your walls. Vivienne is more of a social climber, and she's very cold. She's far too calculating in her desires and flirtations to really fit the type.
See, for me the mix up is that somehow a Femme Fatale and an Ice Queen are kinda going hand-in-hand. I think there can be some division between the two, but that's just my opinion. <shrug>
@dave Good morning. Honorary like for your post from the rogue. 
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