3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

While I can't really argue with the idea of a toggle-able explicit content filter; and I don't think it would even be *that* big of a deal to implement since anything that even remotely borders on explicit is basically a cut-scene - if the filter is on, skip the "offending" cut-scene (or fade to black)...
 
I do have to kind of question "explicit" though...
 
I'm guessing there's some kind of cultural schism going on here... there's nothing in ME that really qualifies as explicit by European standards - no more than a hint of side-boob or bum; you'd see more on a day-trip to the seaside on a hot day or in just about any tabloid newspaper.

Personally believe that 'excessive' might have been a better choice of phrase, but it is not my letter of complaint.

[KaiserShep]

I wish.

Funnel web dingos for everyone!

[Elhanan]

In the video I posted a few pages back that gave a brief look into the history and science of swearing, they mention McKay Hatch, a kid who started a "No Cussing" club at his school and became the target of a huge amount of mockery and attacks because of it. 
 
I'm ashamed to admit that in my high school days, I absolutely would have been part of the group to verbally attack him for that concept. 
 
These days I'm more laid back. While I still drop more f-bombs in a day than Jack did in the entirety of ME2, I'm less hostile about the whole concept. I value my swearing; I value swearing in general. I recognize the cultural and social function it serves. But I'm not going to attack someone for choosing to live their life differently, so long as they aren't condescending and hostile towards me for mine. 
 
That's how I feel about the OP and several others in this thread who dislike swearing; that's fine for them. Those are their choices, their preferences, their lives. If that isn't something they want in their lives that's fair. 
 
I'm still opposed to the proposition of this thread because I think it represents a compromise in artistic vision, but I try not to be hostile in my statements in that regard.

Well stated. Thanks for the use of empathy and tolerance.

Bioware games are not often over-seasoned with such matters, and are generally easy to avoid them. In ME3, skipping the use of James Vega prevents much of the offensive dialogue, Jack in ME2, and Blackwall and the Iron Bull in DAI. The latter offenders bothers me a bit more as usage seems anachronistic, and even breaks the lore presented in the game itself:

http://dragonage.wik...:_Common_Curses

One can reduce Gore, and by application of options can generally avoid sexual content. But swearing seems more invasive, and would be helpful if it was also kept as a more optional feature.

[Il Divo]

Note that The Godfather is the only one mentioned I chose to watch, and then skipped the sequels. Plus the friend that went along fell asleep; not the best recommendation.

 

Well, Perhaps not for you. Though it's considered by many to be one of, if not the best gangster film ever made. I could point to about a million other critically or fan acclaimed films: again, Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, which I suspect you wouldn't be interested in.

 

My point is that changing the language does fundamentally change these movies, many of which are well loved. As an example, if you're making a period piece, I think it's pretty foolish of a director to purposely omit foul language in an effort to appear more sanitary. 

[Former_Fiend]

Well stated. Thanks for the use of empathy and tolerance.

Bioware games are not often over-seasoned with such matters, and are generally easy to avoid them. In ME3, skipping the use of James Vega prevents much of the offensive dialogue, Jack in ME2, and Blackwall and the Iron Bull in DAI. The latter offenders bothers me a bit more as usage seems anachronistic, and even breaks the lore presented in the game itself:

http://dragonage.wik...:_Common_Curses

One can reduce Gore, and by application of options can generally avoid sexual content. But swearing seems more invasive, and would be helpful if it was also kept as a more optional feature.

 

To be fair, the f-word in it's modern form dates back at least to the late 1400s and is probably considerably older; at the very least the old English and Germanic words it evolved from go back another thousand years before that. There's even evidence to suggest roots in Latin and ancient Greek.The s-word is likely very, very old, and as I mentioned earlier, is only considered vulgar because it was used by commoners who spoke a Germanic language while the upper class spoke a Latin-based language, so "defecation" is ok but "sh*t" is not because of class warfare centuries ago.

 

Far as the contradition of in game lore, well, the codex is always been stated to be at best incomplete. I've stated my personal belief that the word hadn't been used in game before Inquisition(it's first use in a DA work was Asunder) because of Bioware testing the waters with what they could get away with. They probably could have gotten away with having such strong language in a fantasy game in 2009 nine, but I can see why they might not have wanted to risk it. 

 

Besides, the real anachronisms are things like Alistair calling the idea of two women together "hot" or Varric calling something "cool"; those are bits of language that only popped up in the last couple hundred years. 

 

So, those things in mind, it doesn't bother me too much. It's an evolving setting; writers never stop having ideas, some of those ideas work and you embrace them, some of them don't and you have to back track or ignore them.

I certainly think that there is a level of swearing that becomes excessive and can ruin the tone as much as completely excising swearing can. I don't want them to cross that line and go too far. I think they should include the amount that's appropriate for the story they're writing to help convey the tone they want that story to have.

 

That's all I want.

[Iakus]

Can reflect pathetic settings, but often do not. Cursing is often dropped as often as fertilizer, and can appear to be as appealing. And personally thought CoM was a dull film.

The book was much better

[Steelcan]

 

Besides, the real anachronisms are things like Alistair calling the idea of two women together "hot" or Varric calling something "cool"; those are bits of language that only popped up in the last couple hundred years. 

 

So, those things in mind, it doesn't bother me too much. It's an evolving setting; writers never stop having ideas, some of those ideas work and you embrace them, some of them don't and you have to back track or ignore them.

I certainly think that there is a level of swearing that becomes excessive and can ruin the tone as much as completely excising swearing can. I don't want them to cross that line and go too far. I think they should include the amount that's appropriate for the story they're writing to help convey the tone they want that story to have.

 

That's all I want.

I doubt that is any time soon in coming.  People aren't usually going to intentionally write in a a much older system of language, and in the gargantuan task of BioWare video game dialogue it'd be nigh impossible for it to be all in keeping with the setting.

 

And this is ignoring the issue of BioWare being wholly uninterested in anything actually Medieval in Dragon Age

[Quarian Master Race]

Yep, curse words have to be eliminated, because we wouldn't want the kids to start calling their 3rd grade classmates, "bosh'tet". Think of the children!

Were you people even playing the same game as I was? Other than Jack, Aria and Vega (in like one conversation), the language isn't something that you would see outside of a PG Disney movie. Things like Garrus's "Lieutenant Bastard Kai Leng" or Tali's "choke on it you Cerberus bastards" were about as salty as it got otherwise, pretty surprising when the subject matter is genocidal robots and space nazis teaming up to gruesomely kill or enslave everything in the galaxy.

ME had a military setting. If anyone has served or knows anyone who has, they should know that you probably hear more curses from them in an hour than in the entirety of the ME series 60hr or so run. Frankly, I don't know what to tell you if you think this series has too much swearing apart from grow the fuсk up and stop being so goddamned sensitive when the insane biotic murderer says something naughty. They're words. I don't see how one is offended by fuсk but not by the outright offensive fantastic racial slurs used in setting (cuttlebone, suit rat, squint etc).

If anything, certain characters should have cursed more.....like a lot more (looking at you Ash) because their language otherwise comes off a bit corny and lacking in impact, and unnecessarily makes the setting seem campy, sterile and unrealistic.

[Former_Fiend]

I doubt that is any time soon in coming.  People aren't usually going to intentionally write in a a much older system of language, and in the gargantuan task of BioWare video game dialogue it'd be nigh impossible for it to be all in keeping with the setting.

 

And this is ignoring the issue of BioWare being wholly uninterested in anything actually Medieval in Dragon Age

 

I'm not saying they should start writing Dragon Age in Old English. I'm saying that it isn't fair to call the f-word an anachronism when it isn't, especially when other anachronisms have been in the games since the start - half of what Alistair says - and are generally given a pass. 

[Steelcan]

I'm not saying they should start writing Dragon Age in Old English. I'm saying that it isn't fair to call the f-word an anachronism when it isn't, especially when other anachronisms have been in the games since the start - half of what Alistair says - and are generally given a pass. 

As awesome as that would be.....

 

I think people are more willing to give "hot" and "cool" a pass because it isn't "offensive" like swearing is.

[Elhanan]

Well, Perhaps not for you. Though it's considered by many to be one of, if not the best gangster film ever made. I could point to about a million other critically or fan acclaimed films: again, Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, which I suspect you wouldn't be interested in.
 
My point is that changing the language does fundamentally change these movies, many of which are well loved. As an example, if you're making a period piece, I think it's pretty foolish of a director to purposely omit foul language in an effort to appear more sanitary.

Case in point: am starting to watch the acclaimed series Downton Abbey, and noticed that profanity was not needed to portray lesser social-economical groups. Yet it has many awards, and is widely accepted as a pillar of story telling and character portrayal.

But I do skip and pass on most gangster films and series (no Sopranos for me), at least current ones. The Sting is still a favorite.

[Steelcan]

Case in point: am starting to watch the acclaimed series Downton Abbey, and noticed that profanity was not needed to portray lesser social-economical groups. Yet it has many awards, and is widely accepted as a pillar of story telling and character portrayal.

But I do skip and pass on most gangster films and series (no Sopranos for me), at least current ones. The Sting is still a favorite.

*gags at Downton Abbey*

 

Jeez talk about overrated and pedantic schlock.  Gods forbid any of the characters ever showed some life or spirit.

[In Exile]

OP was certainly right in the prediction that individuals would come out of the woodwork to attack and deride this idea, not to mention the OP him/herself.

You know, rather than contribute anything useful to the discussion.

But, ultimately, the OP is wrong that you can just cut out graphic content - whether violence or swearing - and make the same game. The simplest example here is switching out the wording of the sign in Die Hard 3. But some things would be way harder. Does Jack get bleeped every five seconds? Is there white noise when she talks about being violently gang-raped? Does the ME3 codex cut mention of the slaughter ships? Does ME2 cut the scene of the human melted down to reaper slurpee?

[Elhanan]

I was also in a military setting for at least seven years, and while cussing was fairly common, if one used it to address a superior, there would be possible repercussions and discipline to go along with it. James Vega broke the immersion for me. This is why I mentioned soldiers in an earlier post as a comparison.

[Elhanan]

*gags at Downton Abbey*
 
Jeez talk about overrated and pedantic schlock.  Gods forbid any of the characters ever showed some life or spirit.

Rather like it thus far; only half way thru Season 3 currently. And the casting of both Grandmothers is superb; am delighted with Maggie Smith when she plays such parts.

[Steelcan]

I was also in a military setting for at least seven years, and while cussing was fairly common, if one used it to address a superior, there would be possible repercussions and discipline to go along with it. James Vega broke the immersion for me. This is why I mentioned soldiers in an earlier post as a comparison.

James Vega isn't your average soldier though so I fail to see the issue, part of his characterization is his borderline insubordinate attitude

[Elhanan]

James Vega isn't your average soldier though so I fail to see the issue, part of his characterization is his borderline insubordinate attitude

Thus I do not mind benching him. As mentioned, Bioware generally makes it easy to avoid the issue.

[Former_Fiend]

I was also in a military setting for at least seven years, and while cussing was fairly common, if one used it to address a superior, there would be possible repercussions and discipline to go along with it. James Vega broke the immersion for me. This is why I mentioned soldiers in an earlier post as a comparison.

 

It does serve character though, in that it shows Shepard runs a less formal command than many officers would.

 

I suppose you could balance that sort of thing out with an option to warn Vega of his violation and potential repercussions if he continues. 

[Elhanan]

It does serve character though, in that it shows Shepard runs a less formal command than many officers would.
 
I suppose you could balance that sort of thing out with an option to warn Vega of his violation and potential repercussions if he continues.

I do; throw him to the floor, then bench him for most missions.

[TheTechnoTurian]

 (cuttlebone, suit rat, squint etc).
 

 

you ****** racist only we can say that

[Former_Fiend]

I do; throw him to the floor, then bench him for most missions.

 

Man, taken out of context...

 

Anyway. TV shows. A lot of my favorites don't use cursing because the FCC is a thing that exists. A lot of my favorites use extreme amounts of cursing because they exist on premium channels or streaming networks where they can spend all day laughing and telling the FCC to sit and spin.

 

That being said, I tend to find the dialogue on the curse-heavier shows to be better done, more natural, more realistic. Some times the dialogue on shows that can't get away with swearing can be very clever, funny, tongue in cheek as they work their way around it - the Seinfeld episode The Contest, for example, where they spend the whole episode not saying masturbation. Still holds up pretty well, last I saw it, which was a couple years ago.

 

But that's comedy. And the comedy comes from the fact that they have to work around saying something that people in the real world could just say out loud with no real consequence.  It's very stilted, it's very artificial, and it's very television. I'm very aware I'm watching a show in those moments. 

 

In the shows where swearing is at least possible if not frequent, the dialogue comes off as more natural because people can just say things that people say in the real world. They don't have to have clever work-arounds. They just get right to it, and it has an earnestness to it that I appreciate. 

[Iakus]

A certain amount of cursing is natural and makes sense, depending on the context.  As is adding setting-specific curses, like "quad" and "bosh'tet" for Mass Effect.

 

But flinging them around "because Mature rating" diminishes the impact.  And just doing it for shock value is just numbing.

 

Curses, especially big ones like the F-bomb, should be used sparingly.  To emphasize the gravity of a situation.  It's using a hammer when you have an entire toolbox at your disposal.

 

If someone's using a swear word as a noun, verb, and adjective all in the same sentence, I'm going to start wondering how broad a vocabulary that character actually has. 

[themikefest]

Swearing in front of your superior especially if he/she is an officer is a no no. If push comes to shove that individual could end up with an Article 15. There's a time and place for vulgar language, just don't do it in front of superiors.
 

[dreamgazer]

Curses, especially big ones like the F-bomb, should be used sparingly.

 

Nonsense.  Fiddlesticks should be used as often as humanly possible. 

[Steelcan]

A certain amount of cursing is natural and makes sense, depending on the context.  As is adding setting-specific curses, like "quad" and "bosh'tet" for Mass Effect.

 

But flinging them around "because Mature rating" diminishes the impact.  And just doing it for shock value is just numbing.

 

Curses, especially big ones like the F-bomb, should be used sparingly.  To emphasize the gravity of a situation.  It's using a hammer when you have an entire toolbox at your disposal.

 

If someone's using a swear word as a noun, verb, and adjective all in the same sentence, I'm going to start wondering how broad a vocabulary that character actually has. 

I don't find this argument particularly convincing.  People swear all the time, and just because its repeated it doesn't always become desensitizing.  Language should be used in accordance with the characters who use it.  Not on an "as needed" basis.  I'd find it just as odd if Liara started dropping F-bombs as opposed to Jack not.