It's not only that man, Gears' gameplay is a lot more fluid in every way. It feels responsive and appropriate, while ME2's is robotic and rough.
Each to their own .
Not to mention ME2's 1990s era brain dead A.I and bland and mediocre map design, where a lot of places just resembled warehouses.
Four months, and 132 pages later - OP is still defending his post.
Friendly advice: go ahead and learn from people's opinions rather than trying to correct them (at least on this one).
Another piece of friendly advice: there is nothing even remotely explicit about sex. You should try being less repressed.
But...The OP hasn't posted since early August.
But hardcore gaming is not synonymous with Baldur's Gate. Hardcore gaming as a concept simply denotes that a game requires time/energy to invest in to become competent. It's a bit like someone saying they dislike Mass Effect, so they must not like sci-fi. The particular and the category are not synonymous.
(Just my reasons):
Baldur's Gate isn't terrible because it's dedicated to hardcore gaming. It's terrible because the plot consists of a scavenger hunt for letters, the dialogue is laughably bad/one-dimensional across the board, the characters are essentially cartoon characters without any real conversations to be had, the PC himself is essentially required to be cartoonishly evil or good, the side quests are on the quality level of DA:I (ignoring tales of the sword coast), and there is an insane level of emphasis on wandering around/dungeon-crawling, without the opportunity to engage in anything else.
And once that's gone, you're essentially left with the gameplay. I always hated Vancian Casting, so my group and I would often use other rule sets, etc.
That's where my dislike stems from. "The people who love ME2 probably never played the older Bioware games". In my experiences on here, the first thing mentioned when people talk about how great the old games were and how bad modern Bioware games are is the story. And that's a very dangerous route to go down when 2 of the big Bioware 3 were BG1 and Neverwinter Nights.
So, what is the difference that might cause someone to favor other Bioware titles? Because they all tend to have something Bioware does remarkably badly or remarkably well that might cause someone to dislike them altogether.
Mass Effect 2 is made worse because of it's plot, you are treating "plot" with the assumption it's inherently good, it's inherently bad, that is your mistake.
And honestly as far as dialogue and such goes nothing tops ME and DA sorry once again you brought this upon yourself, I can barely understand what they characters are saying half the time they are so incoherent, they have a tendency to wind up and spew batter for awhile. BG1 characters could be stiff or awkward but you could clearly interpret them all the same.
Anyway, then you go on to cite people who laud BG for it's story, which I never did, in fact in one other post I just mentioned how pretty the forests were during the rain with the possibility of finding Dryads in a seaside caves, that is a moment, not a plot point, not a story, just a moment, and it's quite powerful.
If you want to keep compressing me into someone who worships at the altar of BG and is just trying to distance myself from the fact that ME and DA are popular and the only thing I did was play them first, you can try but I'll probably just stop responding to your comments.
My only goal is to objectively clarify that early BG was better than NWN and then DA/ME, the distance? I don't know how much, smaller than what the hardcore fans will tell you but certainly larger than what some suspect, and absolutely in no event does it flow the other direction in terms of quality of the experience.
Could be because FF13 its quite literally a single hallway the entire way through right up until chapter 11 or so out of 13, only to open up a bit at a small plains area and then go right back into being final hallway after. It also treats the player like he is in a tutorial for about 80% of the game.
ME2 actually gives you choices on when to go where, even if its linear inside its missions, FF13 doesn't.
LR is the best game out of the FF13 mainline games, and unsurprisingly its also the one that fully did away with the hallway design.
Whoa 3 hallways instead of 1?! My mind is teh blown!
Actually that's not even true, because of that late breaking big area in FF13 that you mention is quite a bit bigger, since that small plains area forks off into the main quest area but also a huge double fork side area that culminates in those ruins way way down the line.
Agreed on the trilogy actually going in the right direction though after the first.
Or perhaps you're overrating them. This sort of argument can't ever go anywhere.
FWIW, I've always felt that Bio games modelled PnP better the further away from BG1 they got. Of course, PnP experiences differ from campaign to campaign.
Plenty of people wholeheartedly condemned the NWN OC, and SoU wasn't all that great either. The highest praise people here gave to HotU was that it was close to being as good as BG2.
1. I'm not you are wrong.
2. Shadows of Undrentide wasn't good, that's why that happened.
3. BG2 and Hordes are hard to quantity as being purely linear story driven or open worldly, and in truth neither is either.
Also I don't think I ever gave a definitive final rating to BG, or even NWN, I know there is a substantial difference from the BG series generally to NWN and then to DA/ME, and I can also probably farily say that is not the same magnitude of difference between BG and lets say Morrowind, which is more of a full paradigm shift than a substantial difference.
Mass Effect 2 is made worse because of it's plot, you are treating "plot" with the assumption it's inherently good, it's inherently bad, that is your mistake.
And honestly as far as dialogue and such goes nothing tops ME and DA sorry once again you brought this upon yourself, I can barely understand what they characters are saying half the time they are so incoherent, they have a tendency to wind up and spew batter for awhile. BG1 characters could be stiff or awkward but you could clearly interpret them all the same.
Anyway, then you go on to cite people who laud BG for it's story, which I never did, in fact in one other post I just mentioned how pretty the forests were during the rain with the possibility of finding Dryads in a seaside caves, that is a moment, not a plot point, not a story, just a moment, and it's quite powerful.
If you want to keep compressing me into someone who worships at the altar of BG and is just trying to distance myself from the fact that ME and DA are popular and the only thing I did was play them first, you can try but I'll probably just stop responding to your comments.
My only goal is to objectively clarify that early BG was better than NWN and then DA/ME, the distance? I don't know how much, smaller than what the hardcore fans will tell you but certainly larger than what some suspect, and absolutely in no event does it flow the other direction in terms of quality of the experience.
DA and ME have bad dialogue - at times - for modern AA games that have to compare themselves to high quality movies and TV ("good" is e.g. breaking bad on an off night). BG1 has bad dialogue on the level of bad internet fan fiction. There are levels of awful here, and "can be said by humans without everyone breaking into uncontrolled laughter" is a threshold BG1 does not always cross.
To say that BG1 was better than, say, DA:O or ME1 is absurd. Hell, ME1 is BG1 with just better characters and more story (and a different combat system). Hell, DA:I is basically BG1 with better dialogue, characters, and story. It's just so weird to focus on BG1, which is a game whose basic features Bioware's always tried to recycle when going more open world, except that awful design gets exposed each time.
DA and ME have bad dialogue - at times - for modern AA games that have to compare themselves to high quality movies and TV ("good" is e.g. breaking bad on an off night). BG1 has bad dialogue on the level of bad internet fan fiction. There are levels of awful here, and "can be said by humans without everyone breaking into uncontrolled laughter" is a threshold BG1 does not always cross.
To say that BG1 was better than, say, DA:O or ME1 is absurd. Hell, ME1 is BG1 with just better characters and more story (and a different combat system). Hell, DA:I is basically BG1 with better dialogue, characters, and story. It's just so weird to focus on BG1, which is a game whose basic features Bioware's always tried to recycle when going more open world, except that awful design gets exposed each time.
Why is it so absurd? You make the same assumption as someone else, more story is automatically equated with being a good thing, to me it sounds like more neediness and ennui from people who aren't me and thus detract from the power of the fantasy as directed towards me.
I'll agree that is weird to focus on BG1, in general, that's actually an annoyance of mine like it was a paragon of something, it was the beginning, and it was good at creating some pretty powerful experiences.
As far as characterization though even though it's just dribs and drabs Imoen was more entertaining than... really a lot of characters not just in Bioware games but in media generally.
I mean honestly to have a character force their way into your party? That's heresy by the modern "you can come and go at any time" standards we see in games.
I'll say one more time you may be conflating me with someone who just wants to promote BG as a way to distance myself from all the other gamers who eat up DA but also eat up DA as like an elitist check, but that's just not it, otherwise I would be saying it's the greatest game ever which I'm not, instead, I'm just saying it's a pretty good experience and had a more immersive and compelling atmosphere than later ones.
Besides can't I play this game in reverse? NWN was still pretty interesting and compelling, and even DA was too, by collapsing the differences between them I'm actually supporting Bioware games more than you are, they made a large number of quality experiences, all I'm saying is the trend is downwards, objectively.
That literally doesn't even matter by the way for all kinds of things, Bioware games, at the beginning or end of their experience, are still undervalued and underappreciated relative to most games, ergo they could make something less compelling than DA and ME and it would still be a relatively worthy experience compared to the gaming environment generally.
Mass Effect 2 is made worse because of it's plot, you are treating "plot" with the assumption it's inherently good, it's inherently bad, that is your mistake.
And honestly as far as dialogue and such goes nothing tops ME and DA sorry once again you brought this upon yourself, I can barely understand what they characters are saying half the time they are so incoherent, they have a tendency to wind up and spew batter for awhile. BG1 characters could be stiff or awkward but you could clearly interpret them all the same.
Anyway, then you go on to cite people who laud BG for it's story, which I never did, in fact in one other post I just mentioned how pretty the forests were during the rain with the possibility of finding Dryads in a seaside caves, that is a moment, not a plot point, not a story, just a moment, and it's quite powerful.
If you want to keep compressing me into someone who worships at the altar of BG and is just trying to distance myself from the fact that ME and DA are popular and the only thing I did was play them first, you can try but I'll probably just stop responding to your comments.
My only goal is to objectively clarify that early BG was better than NWN and then DA/ME, the distance? I don't know how much, smaller than what the hardcore fans will tell you but certainly larger than what some suspect, and absolutely in no event does it flow the other direction in terms of quality of the experience.
Cut down on the butt hurt, mate. Believe it or not, you are allowed to like Baldur's Gate 1 better. The point wasn't to sell you on ME2 being a better game.
Your comments aren't laughably bad because you like BG1 better than ME2. They're laughably bad because you're attempting the objectivity argument, about how none of us know any better. I doubt anyone on here wants anyone telling them what is objectively good or about their quality of experience. If Neverwinter Nights' campaign is a quality experience, I'll pass on that thanks.
Cut down on the butt hurt, mate. Believe it or not, you are allowed to like Baldur's Gate 1 better. The point wasn't to sell you on ME2 being a better game.
Your comments aren't laughably bad because you like BG1 better than ME2. They're laughably bad because you're attempting the objectivity argument, about how none of us know any better. I doubt anyone on here wants anyone telling them what is objectively good or about their quality of experience. If Neverwinter Nights' campaign is a quality experience, I'll pass on that thanks.
Not attempting, it's a fact.
I also didnt' say none of you knew any better, all I said was that I know what I've played and what I felt and that's how they're ordered. That certainly doesn't preclude someone else seeing that.
Well, don't be doing me any favors. Have a good time.
Well, don't be doing me any favors. Have a good time.
I will do you a favor actually, you stopped with it and so I'll treat your points fairly this time.
1. You doubt anyone wants to be told what's objectively good or bad about their experience.
False, plenty of people want cool game experiences, ergo they look for ones that are more fun.
2. You see the objectivity argument as me talking down to you, and that no one can know better.
False, I'm just stating what I see, and plenty of people play BG and go oh wow that's pretty fun and don't like ME or DA as much.
3. You hate NWN
Ok, so you don't like NWN, fine, NWN has things that aren't so hot from my point of view that I can remember while playing.. such as the simplification of the D&D system, the way resting/spellcasting/casualization.. .there were a number of things none of them super serious.
Chapter 2 was also disappointing compared to 1 and it seems to me the game as it went along got less fun.
The sexiest level designs of the ME series are in ME1. The exploration of the nature of the Ice Queen in the environment, characters, and interactions in the Noveria mission is sublime. If ME:A levels are created with this type of sublimated examination of archetypes in its level designs rather than making use of bland prosaic explicit content it could make toggles unnecessary.
I can't understand a damn thing this guy is saying.
Reading comprehension hasn't been well demonstrated on this page. Too much focus on explicit content, perhaps?
The sexiest level designs of the ME series are in ME1. The exploration of the nature of the Ice Queen in the environment, characters, and interactions in the Noveria mission is sublime. If ME:A levels are created with this type of sublimated examination of archetypes in its level designs rather than making use of bland prosaic explicit content it could make toggles unnecessary.
Given that ME1 still enjoyed its fair share of side boob, Matriarch Benezia, and Asari dancers, that might not be the safest bet.
Although I should point out that calling Noveria a "sublimated examination of archetypes" might be laying it on a bit thick.
Reading comprehension hasn't been well demonstrated on this page. Too much focus on explicit content, perhaps?
Or maybe you went a little bit overboard with the sesquipedalian loquaciousness, to the degree that it detracted from the actual point of your assertion, and no person's individual attentiveness to explicit content has--like--totes anything to do with their reading comprehension.
Although I should pointing it out that calling Noveria a "sublimated examination of archetypes" might be laying it on a bit thick.
Given that ME1 still enjoyed its fair share of side boob, Matriarch Benezia, and Asari dancers, that might not be the safest bet.
The sexiest level designs of the ME series are in ME1. The exploration of the nature of the Ice Queen in the environment, characters, and interactions in the Noveria mission is sublime. If ME:A levels are created with this type of sublimated examination of archetypes in its level designs rather than making use of bland prosaic explicit content it could make toggles unnecessary.
Matriarch Benezia does not fit the traditional Ice Queen archetype... she's basically space Flemeth but being "controlled" by an exterior dragon rather than interior - the dragon is simply a less literal metaphor in Benezia's case. It's not sublime, it's hackneyed.
In Freudian psychology sublimation is the focusing of unacceptable sexual desires into something more socially acceptable; cage-fighting rather than going all Jamie/Cersie Lannister for instance... the only real instance of sublimation, in this context, in Mass Effect is the Ardat-Yakshi temple. How does that apply?
... unless you're referring to water/gas sublimation at 0°C of course? Though I'm not sure how that applies to anything - especially on Noveria.
I think we've come a long way since ME1 came out and seeing requests such as this one truly makes me sad. A good story generally will have many facets to it and the Mass Effect trilogy wouldn't be the same without those scenes and the emotional involvement they carry for the player. In fact, IMO the romance scene(s) (whether with Ashley or Liara) from ME1 are the best such scenes of the entire trilogy. Sorry but the games are rated M after all so I'm just going to have to agree with others on this thread and say that if you don't care for the "explicit" content (which really isn't that explicit at if you've played the Witcher games) then just don't play them and leave those of us who want to have the full experience play them.
I think we've come a long way since ME1 came out and seeing requests such as this one truly makes me sad. A good story generally will have many facets to it and the Mass Effect trilogy wouldn't be the same without those scenes and the emotional involvement they carry for the player. In fact, IMO the romance scene(s) (whether with Ashley or Liara) from ME1 are the best such scenes of the entire trilogy. Sorry but the games are rated M after all so I'm just going to have to agree with others on this thread and say that if you don't care for the "explicit" content (which really isn't that explicit at if you've played the Witcher games) then just don't play them and leave those of us who want to have the full experience play them.
What is wrong with asking for a choice? Why does it make you sad that there are people who don't want explicit content?
I'd say in some ways we've gone backwards from ME1. Less choice for players. Fewer facets. In ME1, you don't have to sleep with the LI to complete the romance. And if you do, you can skip past the scene. There was sex and nudity for those who wanted it, and a way for those who didn't to opt out without messing up the story.
Gods, I loved those exploding heads in ME:3. It is strangly satisfactory.
But I´m not sure how I feel about seeing my 15 year old cousins playing that game and shooting the heads off the Cerberus soldiers. So... you are not wrong.
The parents of your 15 y-o cousins are the issue there, not the game. The game carries the rating it does for a reason. If it didn't have that content, it wouldn't be the same game. There are plenty of games for those offended by violence/nudity/vulgarity. That doesn't happen to be one of them. Nor should ME:A be one either.
Wonder if the OP watches only ClearPlay-bowldwerized versions of movies? The results of that effort can only be described as pathetic. What the OP is asking for is the CRPG equivalent of a "fig leaf" plastered onto the game the way ones were once added to paintings and statues to avoid offending the sensibilities of certain people because they, you know... actually represented things as they are. (Shocking, I know.)
Wonder if the OP watches only ClearPlay-bowldwerized versions of movies? The results of that effort can only be described as pathetic. What the OP is asking for is the CRPG equivalent of a "fig leaf" plastered onto the game the way ones were once added to paintings and statues to avoid offending the sensibilities of certain people because they, you know... actually represented things as they are. (Shocking, I know.)
No, OP is asking for more options for players. Please reread.
Matriarch Benezia does not fit the traditional Ice Queen archetype... she's basically space Flemeth but being "controlled" by an exterior dragon rather than interior - the dragon is simply a less literal metaphor in Benezia's case. It's not sublime, it's hackneyed.
In Freudian psychology sublimation is the focusing of unacceptable sexual desires into something more socially acceptable; cage-fighting rather than going all Jamie/Cersie Lannister for instance... the only real instance of sublimation, in this context, in Mass Effect is the Ardat-Yakshi temple. How does that apply?
... unless you're referring to water/gas sublimation at 0°C of course? Though I'm not sure how that applies to anything - especially on Noveria.
It's not only Benezia but every character you interact with from the moment you enter Noveria's arena including port control. This also includes the male characters Inamorda, Lorik, Anoleis and others. From the obvious like the unreachable and unreasonable Stirling, the standoffish Matsuo to Calis and Iallis. Then there is the pivotal decision involving an aspect of the Ice Queen and a major plot and character development for the PC in the Rachni Queen. This is all easily apparent, if one has the tools and capability to delve into it and can see past superficial titillation.
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