If we want to talk about giving Bioware an uncompromised artistic vision, that's possible, but the entire feedback forum would likely go with it.
Probably not a huge loss, let's be real.
Prefer romance to sex, and a simple Fade to Black scene is fine with me.
Genuine question - in the absence of that, what do you regard as your options? I believe you've spoken about romancing Cass in the past - was that scene really objectionable to you?
Probably not a huge loss, let's be real.
Haha, well played. You got me there.
Haha, well played. You got me there.
Tru, tho.
Why you wrong. I can give you more examples but I think it's more then enough.
1)Deadpool.
2)
It absolutely does affect quality, though. Several movies have been cited in this thread that, when edited for language, have negative effects on quality. Several more could be. We're talking about either having alternate lines that could compromise the emotional context of a scene and violate the word budget of the game, or adding in bleeps, which would just sound comical.
Beyond that I find the entire concept unnecessary. These are games that are rated M for mature, intended for audiences 17 years old or older. There is no significant portion of that audience that is going to boycott or refuse to buy a game due to harsh language. So there's no financial reason to include the feature, either.
Still missing the point.
The problem here is the assumption that the content will change if it's censored.
That assumption makes no sense if a filter is put on as an option. This basically says anything like dialogue or what not will be intact, the only thing changed is the toggle, which in turn changes whether or not you hear it.
So control that as the player, so the next assumption is that you will be forced to see or hear something outside of the context of what it should be.
Am I the only one that sees the circular logic of how stupid this assumption is? While it is clearly unfeasible that it will happen because I agree its a waste of resources and development time, these accusations regarding the content being changed are presumptuous, and if it's optional to you as some sort of toggle, why the **** do you care what other people do?
And no, the authorial intent does not matter in this discussion. That is presuming you know better than the writers about what they are saying.
Am I the only one that sees the circular logic of how stupid this assumption is? While it is clearly unfeasible that it will happen, these accusations regarding the content being changed are presumptuous, and if it's optional to you as some sort of toggle, why the **** do you care what other people do?
Now here's the other end of the spectrum: yeah, it's an assumption. But this filter has absolutely no benefit to them (or me).
Case 1: Bioware puts resources to implement the filter, without inhibiting story/character content.
Case 2: Bioware puts resources to implement the filter, while inhibiting story/character content.
Case 3: Bioware doesn't implement any language filters.
But the goal when buying a game is to get the most value for your dollar. They may be looking at a worst case scenario, but there's no reason to push for this feature on any level if you don't actually want language filters.
Genuine question - in the absence of that, what do you regard as your options? I believe you've spoken about romancing Cass in the past - was that scene really objectionable to you?
What do you mean by options? I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm curious.
What do you mean by options? I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm curious.
I don't even know. If he can't skip it, does he close his eyes? Go in the other room? If he knows it's coming, does he shut the romance down? Soldier through it stoically?
I've never beem explicite about anything on this forum but Dinobot100, i really really really hate you! This is a 16+ game and will be in the future. People like scare me ****less. Projecting your outdated moral values on a community like this in the hope you score some quick victory or response from Devs to compensate for something missing in your personal life makes me sick. Close your account and don't return
Quoth the 13 year old. I'm not sure you should be playing this game, either.
I don't agree with the OP's proposal either, but wow.
Still missing the point.
The problem here is the assumption that the content will change if it's censored.
That assumption makes no sense if a filter is put on as an option. This basically says anything like dialogue or what not will be intact, the only thing changed is the toggle, which in turn changes whether or not you hear it.
So control that as the player, so the next assumption is that you will be forced to see or hear something outside of the context of what it should be.
Am I the only one that sees the circular logic of how stupid this assumption is? While it is clearly unfeasible that it will happen because I agree its a waste of resources and development time, these accusations regarding the content being changed are presumptuous, and if it's optional to you as some sort of toggle, why the **** do you care what other people do?
And no, the authorial intent does not matter in this discussion. That is presuming you know better than the writers about what they are saying.
Assumption?
Ok, let's do an experiment.
Pick a quote from Pulp Fiction that contains profanities or any kind of language that you would censor with a toggle and replace the profanities. If you don't like the hundreds of options here, pick another movie. Edit the quote and then present it here. I bet you can't do it without changing context or the character.
Must every aspect of our popular entertainment be sanitised for the benefit of those who simply can't deal with a little adult content?
Assumption?
Ok, let's do an experiment.
Pick a quote from Pulp Fiction that contains profanities or any kind of language that you would censor with a toggle and replace the profanities. If you don't like the hundreds of options here, pick another movie. Edit the quote and then present it here. I bet you can't do it without changing context or the character.
Doesn't quite work as Pulp Fiction is an 18 rated film in the UK ... since Mass Effect 3 was released under the BBFC rating system in the UK rather than PEGI the rating is directly comparable - ME3 was a 15. So you'll probably want to compare it to say The Hunger Games.
Doesn't quite work as Pulp Fiction is an 18 rated film in the UK ... since Mass Effect 3 was released under the BBFC rating system in the UK rather than PEGI the rating is directly comparable - ME3 was a 15. So you'll probably want to compare it to say The Hunger Games.
That poster is just talking about the words in question - if the Hunger Games doesn't contain any cursing, it doesn't really apply.
And what they say is true - you can't just switch them out with a milder epithet and expect to convey the same meaning or context. I'll grant that if they're just bleeping the offending words out, then perhaps the meaning remains mostly unchanged. I can't help but maintain that such a thing is crushingly unnecessary.
Assumption?
Ok, let's do an experiment.
Pick a quote from Pulp Fiction that contains profanities or any kind of language that you would censor with a toggle and replace the profanities. If you don't like the hundreds of options here, pick another movie. Edit the quote and then present it here. I bet you can't do it without changing context or the character.
Ok, I choose not to censor the quote. If you choose to do so, be my guest. Thats' your choice.
And in case if you are wondering...that is what I am talking about. The choice to censor or not.
Now here's the other end of the spectrum: yeah, it's an assumption. But this filter has absolutely no benefit to them (or me).
Case 1: Bioware puts resources to implement the filter, without inhibiting story/character content.
Case 2: Bioware puts resources to implement the filter, while inhibiting story/character content.
Case 3: Bioware doesn't implement any language filters.
But the goal when buying a game is to get the most value for your dollar. They may be looking at a worst case scenario, but there's no reason to push for this feature on any level if you don't actually want language filters.
Of course it has no benefit to those who don't use it. So don't use it then.
I also am not pushing for the feature. I am just saying it doesn't matter if it is made optional. Realistically it won't be done of course but I just find it a bit odd that people think they are being shackled by something that is a feature in the game.
For example, I think the tactical camera point of view in Dragon Age is a waste of time. But that feature is in there. Damn shame they wasted so much resources on it though, I guess I should be pissed it ruined my game, right?
Ok, I choose not to censor the quote. If you choose to do so, be my guest. Thats' your choice.
And in case if you are wondering...that is what I am talking about. So your assumption fails.
Ok, what are you talking about? Because in your previous post you said that there is an assumption that a content toggle wouldn't affect the content, which is wrong in my opinion. Now you're twisting things around and ... sorry, I don't get it. Are we even having the same discussion?
Ok, what are you talking about? Because in your previous post you said that there is an assumption that a content toggle wouldn't affect the content, which is wrong in my opinion. Now you're twisting things around and ... sorry, I don't get it. Are we even having the same discussion?
We are, you are just not understanding the problem.
I said there is an assumption the content will be changed. This is talking about full on censorship of content that is out of your hands.
My point is that if it's made optional, the content will be as the writers intended, and the player has the control to censor their content if they wish. The assumption by a lot of people seems to be that the players seem to have no control over the filter, or that the writers seem to have no desire to push the envelope if that is the case.
So i'm not twisting anything around here. That toggle won't affect content because it's in the players hands. Simply put, you choose to hear what Marcellus Wallace looks like if you want to, and if you don't want to hear why he's a b*tch, you don't have to. If someone else does, why stop them?
But I guess need to emphasize once more, this is all not going to happen obviously, because BioWare is not going to add a filter like that. If they did though, people are panicking for no reason.
That poster is just talking about the words in question - if the Hunger Games doesn't contain any cursing, it doesn't really apply.
And what they say is true - you can't just switch them out with a milder epithet and expect to convey the same meaning or context. I'll grant that if they're just bleeping the offending words out, then perhaps the meaning remains mostly unchanged. I can't help but maintain that such a thing is crushingly unnecessary.
So why put them in there in the first place? The Mass Effect series is already a watered-down, American-friendly franchise with all the "Oh NOES! A NIPPLE!" that goes with it. Apart from Jack it's not like there's so much swearing in ME that anyone would really miss it, is there?
I mean we're not talking GTA here, The Witcher or some kind of gaming equivalent of Romper Stomper - it's Mass Effect, no-one sh*ts, w*nks or sneezes in their space helmets*... but I can't see the problem with giving people who are offended the ability to care-bear their game; you don't need to make shed-loads of branching dialogue, rewrite characters or do anything fancy.
If you want ultra-fluffy mode toggle it on and any "naughty" cut scenes fade to black and the swearing is over-dubbed with a comedy car horn for all I care (it won't be any worse than what ITV do to movies broadcast before the watershed*2) ... it's not like I'll use the feature nor will I care if someone else wants to do that to their game.
*
*2
So why put them in there in the first place? The Mass Effect series is already a watered-down, American-friendly franchise with all the "Oh NOES! A NIPPLE!" that goes with it. Apart from Jack it's not like there's so much swearing in ME that anyone would really miss it, is there?
I mean we're not talking GTA here, The Witcher or some kind of gaming equivalent of Romper Stomper - it's Mass Effect, no-one sh*ts, w*nks or sneezes in their space helmets... but I can't see the problem with giving people who are offended the ability to care-bear their game; you don't need to make shed-loads of branching dialogue, rewrite characters or do anything fancy.
If you want ultra-fluffy mode toggle it on and any "naughty" cut scenes fade to black and the swearing is over-dubbed with a comedy car horn for all I care (it won't be any worse than what ITV do to movies broadcast before the watershed) ... it's not like I'll use the feature nor will I care if someone else wants to do that to their game.
That's sort of the point, I think. The objectionable material is used so sparingly that I'm not sure why players who take issue with it can't just deal with it via the tools available to them (benching offending characters, refraining from certain romances, etc).
Things are undeniably trending in a specific direction, though. Bioware's games have gotten a little more daring in some ways (after other games paved the way) and have themselves paved the way in some other cases (inclusive romance content, which some people seem to regard as offensive enough to merit a toggle itself).
They're only going to get saltier. And, while I hope we're clear that I don't regard the whole superfluous titz'n'gore thing as part and parcel to mature storytelling, I appreciate them going in a more adult direction. I don't see the need for them to censor themselves. I don't think the people who are offended by occasional cursing or nudity should be explicitly catered to if there are ways to avoid it without "toggles" (and frankly, I don't know why it's so unreasonable to expect them to just put up with it in the very rare cases where it's actually unavoidable).
We are, you are just not understanding the problem.
I said there is an assumption the content will be changed. This is talking about full on censorship of content that is out of your hands.
My point is that if it's made optional, the content will be as the writers intended, and the player has the control to censor their content if they wish. The assumption by a lot of people seems to be that the players seem to have no control over the filter, or that the writers seem to have no desire to push the envelope if that is the case.
So i'm not twisting anything around here. That toggle won't affect content because it's in the players hands. Simply put, you choose to hear what Marcellus Wallace looks like if you want to, and if you don't want to hear why he's a b*tch, you don't have to. If someone else does, why stop them?
But I guess need to emphasize once more, this is all not going to happen obviously, because BioWare is not going to add a filter like that. If they did though, people are panicking for no reason.
Yeah, no. I do understand the problem and I already wrote something about it earlier.
The problem with a toggle is that certain elements of a game can not be toggled unless you basically create two different games. You can't write a character and then change part of their dialogue and expect it to be the same character in both versions. That just doesn't work.
To make it work the mature version of the dialogue would have to be changed, too. Imagine Zaeed without cursing. Completely different character.
I also don't get the problem with nudity. Are people so repressed that every bit of visual skin needs to be sexualized? Nudity does not equal sex. There's no reason to censor anything in the first place. Not even for non-mature content.
Excessive violence and gore on the other hand don't need to be shown constantly. Once or twice for shock effect, fine... but any more than that would ruin the game.
So you see, the problem is that such a toggle would affect me even if I choose not to use it.
It would place limits on the writers because they'd have to create characters and write dialogue in a way that's compatible with the toggle without changing their intent, the character in question or the context of the conversation no matter which version you are listening to.
Which leads to the little experiment I proposed: You start with the original, mature dialogue and then try to make it kid friendly as it would be under the toggle. Then you compare both versions. The result is that something (content or character) would be changed by it. Since the writers can't have that, they'd have to change the mature version to something that is compatible with a toggle.
Try the experiment, choose any movie or game or book you like. You'll see that I'm right.
Assumption?
Ok, let's do an experiment.
Pick a quote from Pulp Fiction that contains profanities or any kind of language that you would censor with a toggle and replace the profanities. If you don't like the hundreds of options here, pick another movie. Edit the quote and then present it here. I bet you can't do it without changing context or the character.
Alright, I'll try.
Alright, I'll try.
Vincent: And you know what they call a... a... a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?Jules: They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?Vincent: No man, they got the metric system. They wouldn't know what the heck a Quarter Pounder is.Jules: Then what do they call it?Vincent: They call it a Royale with cheese.Jules: A Royale with cheese. What do they call a Big Mac?Vincent: Well, a Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call it le Big-Mac.Jules: Le Big-Mac. Ha ha ha ha. What do they call a Whopper?Vincent: I dunno, I didn't go into Burger King.
Substituting that one word makes it sound like a conversation with my grandfather, honestly.
...
I don't see the need for them to censor themselves. I don't think the people who are offended by occasion should be explicitly catered to if there are ways to avoid it without "toggles."
I'm not suggesting they censor themselves any more than they already do - but I just don't get the backlash against the idea of giving the player the ability to filter out the mildly more adult content if they like. As long as it's an added feature that doesn't affect the standard version of the game (i.e. not wasting masses of resources on alternative content) then why should else anyone really care?
A certain amount of cursing is natural and makes sense, depending on the context. As is adding setting-specific curses, like "quad" and "bosh'tet" for Mass Effect.
But flinging them around "because Mature rating" diminishes the impact. And just doing it for shock value is just numbing.
Curses, especially big ones like the F-bomb, should be used sparingly. To emphasize the gravity of a situation. It's using a hammer when you have an entire toolbox at your disposal.
If someone's using a swear word as a noun, verb, and adjective all in the same sentence, I'm going to start wondering how broad a vocabulary that character actually has.
Substituting that one word makes it sound like a conversation with my grandfather, honestly.
Yeah, Vincent isn't a character who'd use "heck".
Still missing the point.
The problem here is the assumption that the content will change if it's censored.
That assumption makes no sense if a filter is put on as an option. This basically says anything like dialogue or what not will be intact, the only thing changed is the toggle, which in turn changes whether or not you hear it.
So control that as the player, so the next assumption is that you will be forced to see or hear something outside of the context of what it should be.
Am I the only one that sees the circular logic of how stupid this assumption is? While it is clearly unfeasible that it will happen because I agree its a waste of resources and development time, these accusations regarding the content being changed are presumptuous, and if it's optional to you as some sort of toggle, why the **** do you care what other people do?
And no, the authorial intent does not matter in this discussion. That is presuming you know better than the writers about what they are saying.
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